[Kawa]

Well, I for one will be eagerly waiting for two weeks.

[Hendricks266]

This one took special permission from Jim Norwood.

[Player Lin]

From 1993? Wow, that's old, thanks for releasing it.

EDIT: I guess it's not up yet?

[Hendricks266]

Player Lin, on 18 July 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

EDIT: I guess it's not up yet?

See previous page.

[Player Lin]

Hendricks266, on 18 July 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

See previous page.

Oh, silly me, I didn't perceived that was meant this one...sorry.

[Hendricks266]

Player Lin, on 18 July 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Oh, silly me, I didn't perceived that was meant this one...sorry.

The same circumstances apply to both.

[PikaCommando]

The 1994 one was already barebones as it is, I can't wait to see just what the '93 version contains. Also, I didn't realize SW was developed this far back; I thought the big 3 BUILD games started in '94.

[Svanis]

PikaCommando, on 18 July 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

The 1994 one was already barebones as it is, I can't wait to see just what the '93 version contains. Also, I didn't realize SW was developed this far back; I thought the big 3 BUILD games started in '94.

Makes me wonder too, since the earliest build of Duke afaik looked like this:

Duke Nukem 3D 1994 Prototype

[Hendricks266]

This 1993 build is a proof of concept that Jim Norwood sent to Scott Miller to pitch SW. It predates the project's use of the Build Engine and the name "Shadow Warrior".

[icecoldduke]

Hendricks266, on 19 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

This 1993 build is a proof of concept that Jim Norwood sent to Scott Miller to pitch SW. It predates the project's use of the Build Engine and the name "Shadow Warrior".

That's interesting I never knew he pitched Shadow Warrior to Scott Miller. Do you guys know why they switched the game over from spells and magic over to the current game style?

[Hawke]

Hendricks266, on 19 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

It predates the project's use of the Build Engine and the name "Shadow Warrior".

Something never seen before then? Sounds interesting.

[Hendricks266]

icecoldduke, on 19 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

That's interesting I never knew he pitched Shadow Warrior to Scott Miller. Do you guys know why they switched the game over from spells and magic over to the current game style?

George thought something more like Duke would sell better.

[icecoldduke]

Hendricks266, on 19 July 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

George thought something more like Duke would sell better.

Makes sense.

[Svanis]

A bit ironic actually, considering what made Duke so great imo was that it was so different from other shooters.

[PikaCommando]

Hendricks266, on 19 July 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

This 1993 build is a proof of concept that Jim Norwood sent to Scott Miller to pitch SW. It predates the project's use of the Build Engine and the name "Shadow Warrior".

Huh, I always thought SW was George or Scott's own idea. Is it running on the ROTT engine?

Also, are there any proposal documents with it?

[KareBear]

I remember coming across an old interview with Jim Norwood where he said Shadow Warrior started development on a Wolf 3D clone engine written by Gerald Lyndsly.I also remember George saying Duke 3D started development on a Wolf 3D like engine (perhaps the same one as SW) before switching to build.

[LkMax]

Hendricks266, on 19 July 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

George thought something more like Duke would sell better.

Well, seems like it didn't quite work out, or at least it wasn't as sucessful as Duke 3D.

[Lunick]

LkMax, on 19 July 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Well, seems like it didn't quite work out, or at least it wasn't as sucessful as Duke 3D.

I'm not sure that is George's fault, the rise of proper 3D games hurt Shadow Warrior.

[icecoldduke]

LkMax, on 19 July 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

Well, seems like it didn't quite work out, or at least it wasn't as sucessful as Duke 3D.

If they started with the Lo Wang concept from the beginning, I think the game would have turned out better. This is a guess, but when they switched from spells and magic to Lo Wang, they probably wanted to keep as much content, code, and level designs as they could. I understand why the team would choose that route, but I think it hurt the final product. I think the concept of Lo Wang as asian duke nukem is a great starting point, but the rest of the concept could have been flushed out better IMO.

[Ninjakitty]

Lunick, on 19 July 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm not sure that is George's fault, the rise of proper 3D games hurt Shadow Warrior.

Exactly!

Notable releases that kinda left Shadow Warrior in their shadow:
Blood (Had a LOT more 3D stuff in the form of voxels)
GoldenEye 007 (for the Nintendo 64, but still had lots of 3D)
Tomb Raider II (3D models and stuffs)
Quake II (3D models, a LOT of them)

[LkMax]

That's a good point, Quake was released the same year as Duke 3D.
But now that I know this, I wounder how would be the original Shadow Warrior if focused more on magic than guns. Could end up like a cool and different game, like a Build engine Hexen without the boring puzzles (or with better puzzles at least, less confuzing and maze-y).

[Ninjakitty]

LkMax, on 19 July 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

That's a good point, Quake was released the same year as Duke 3D.
But now that I know this, I wounder how would be the original Shadow Warrior if focused more on magic than guns. Could end up like a cool and different game, like a Build engine Hexen without the boring puzzles (or with better puzzles at least, less confuzing and maze-y).

LOL, I've wondered the exact same thing before.

[necroslut]

LkMax, on 19 July 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

That's a good point, Quake was released the same year as Duke 3D.
But now that I know this, I wounder how would be the original Shadow Warrior if focused more on magic than guns. Could end up like a cool and different game, like a Build engine Hexen without the boring puzzles (or with better puzzles at least, less confuzing and maze-y).

I would claim magic kinda remained in... in the shape of monster body part weapons like the guardian head. Taken that into consideration, I don't think having a few spells alongside the normal weapons would really have made the game that different. If anything, I think it could have made it stand out a little less, as Shadow Warrior was at the time and for years after remembered for it's odd and creative weapons.

I don't think Blood stole any thunder from Shadow Warrior - anyone who could stomach Blood's tech would also play and enjoy Shadow Warrior, at least in my experience. What really killed it was the Quakes and other "true 3D" games for PC and consoles.

[axl]

necroslut, on 19 July 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

I don't think Blood stole any thunder from Shadow Warrior - anyone who could stomach Blood's tech would also play and enjoy Shadow Warrior, at least in my experience. What really killed it was the Quakes and other "true 3D" games for PC and consoles.

Yep. In my opinion you can pinpoint several causes:

1. as mentioned before the release of "true" 3D games like Quake and Quake 2;
2. these games had far better multiplayer / deathmatch capabilities which became insanely popular;
3. both Blood, Shadow Warrior and Redneck Rampage were seen, at the time, by several game critics as "Duke gone horror", "Duke in Asia" and "Duke Redneck".

[Svanis]

I wonder if they ever got any further with magic than in the 1994 build, because looking at the art files for the september 95 build there is no trace of the magic hand sprite that appeared in the earlier february 95 build, but who knows. Seems to have been replaced by the lightning blade thing, and the grenade is gone too. I'm fairly certain the lightning blade shoots lightning balls looking at the files, we'll see!

I wonder if the scythe from Feb 95 got more polished before it was removed as well. They toyed around with so many ideas and the geek within me needs to know all there is to know.

[PikaCommando]

I wonder what are some specific inspirations for Shadow Warrior? We know Army of Darkness is one for Duke, but "ninja movies" isn't very specific.

I'm putting my money on 1983's 'Revenge of the Ninja' because the ninjas there uses a mini scythe to fight in a few scenes, and I don't think I've seen that in other ninja films.

[necroslut]

PikaCommando, on 20 July 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

I wonder what are some specific inspirations for Shadow Warrior? We know Army of Darkness is one for Duke, but "ninja movies" isn't very specific.

I'm putting my money on 1983's 'Revenge of the Ninja' because the ninjas there uses a mini scythe to fight in a few scenes, and I don't think I've seen that in other ninja films.

It's not just "ninja movies", but Hong Kong action movies - kung fu and bullet ballet -, anime and so on various "asian" (in one way or another) pop culture. The early 90's was a time where a lot of great, wildly over-the-top action movies came out, both from Japan and Hong Kong. But this isn't very specific.
The "mini-scythe" (I forgot what it's called) is/was a pretty common "ninja weapon", hardly only featured in the Revenge of the Ninja. Although I'm sure they watched that movie a few times.

Edit: nevermind this whole post is useless, I misread your post.
There are specific references to Jackie Chan, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, John Woo and Slayers anime (and Monthy Python's Holy Grail), but you all know this already.

[Master O]

necroslut, on 20 July 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

It's not just "ninja movies", but Hong Kong action movies - kung fu and bullet ballet -, anime and so on various "asian" (in one way or another) pop culture. The early 90's was a time where a lot of great, wildly over-the-top action movies came out, both from Japan and Hong Kong. But this isn't very specific.
The "mini-scythe" (I forgot what it's called) is/was a pretty common "ninja weapon", hardly only featured in the Revenge of the Ninja. Although I'm sure they watched that movie a few times.

Edit: nevermind this whole post is useless, I misread your post.
There are specific references to Jackie Chan, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, John Woo and Slayers anime (and Monthy Python's Holy Grail), but you all know this already.

The chick from the anime "Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon / Sailor Moon" is also a secret in one of the later levels. I forget which one.

I've been telling people for years that if a 3rd episode of Shadow Warrior is made, that it needs to be solely dedicated to parodying anime. There's plenty of material out there...

[Svanis]

In 1-3 in the '94 prototype you can see some imps looking out of one of the buildings, you can hold A to get a better look.

SW94 Imps

[icecoldduke]

Svanis, on 24 July 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

In 1-3 in the '94 prototype you can see some imps looking out of one of the buildings, you can hold A to get a better look.

SW94 Imps

That's actually pretty cool. I wonder what they were testing with the imps.