[pacman]

Micky C, on 06 July 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

1. Fan made mods.
2. Hopefully eduke soon.
3. Eduke.
4. (Terminx did talk about making some kind of platform for this a while ago but I admit it's unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future if at all).

IMO WT is not the future of Duke 3D.

WT its not, thats what im saying. WT was lame. eDuke is some program, it would be ideal to have it all nicely wrapped in steam. Normal people can't be bothered with having to download files and do shit outside of Steam. If we want to reach as much people as possible we need a nice Steam package with everything ready to play. So eDuke32 with solid multiplayer, 3 new official episodes and all steam is the way to go.

[icecoldduke]

pacman, on 08 July 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

WT its not, thats what im saying. WT was lame. eDuke is some program, it would be ideal to have it all nicely wrapped in steam. Normal people can't be bothered with having to download files and do shit outside of Steam. If we want to reach as much people as possible we need a nice Steam package with everything ready to play. So eDuke32 with solid multiplayer, 3 new official episodes and all steam is the way to go.

Saying "WT is lame", is a shitty critique. On every game I have ever shipped, there is always people that go "This game is lame". My favorite kind of comments are the ones were people say, "I could make this game so much better in my sleep". I ignore these kind of comments, but apparently Randy takes them personally.

I agree WT could have been better(the low quality audio was bad to say the least), but you guys should stop attacking WT, if you expect Randy to give a shit about us going forward.

[Altered Reality]

Sledgehammer, on 08 July 2017 - 05:03 AM, said:

If they want to do something different, for starters they should bring back old

No.

[Sledgehammer]

 pacman, on 08 July 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

If we want to reach as much people as possible we need a nice Steam package with everything ready to play.

My vote goes for HTTKC, plus multiplayer and WT new episode with some gameplay improvements (like better last boss, better enemy placement, better flamethrower, etc). Oh, and you forgot about GOG release too.

 icecoldduke, on 08 July 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

you guys should stop attacking WT, if you expect Randy to give a shit about us going forward.

Those "attacks" or better to say critiques (since that includes legit complaints with actual reasons stated instead of just simple "meh") are pointless anyway since everyone is aware of game's problems, that includes Randy who finally acknowledged that he fucked up as he said it himself (really loved that part since it means he admits that he made a mistake and can listen to criticism). Let's hope those mistakes will be fixed and that Randy has learned his lesson.

 Altered Reality, on 08 July 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

No.

Okay, just complex/non-linear level design. That's where my emphasis was anyway.

[Minigunner]

WT is good in its own right. The only real issues are gameplay-related studding from the incinerator, firefly, and cycloid boss.

Also, DNF failed in part due to its wanting to recycle ideas from Duke3D, particularly monsters and weapons. Duke3D's fame is in part due to having unique gameplay features, such as unorthodox weaponry like the shrinker, pipe/tripbombs, and freezethrower. A good part of having a new Duke game would be bringing new things to the table, akin to what DNF did before the new stuff got replaced by updated Duke3D stuff.

[Player Lin]

 Minigunner, on 08 July 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

WT is good in its own right. The only real issues are gameplay-related studding from the incinerator, firefly, and cycloid boss.

Hmm, I hope you still remember how slowly & non-responsive about the weapons selection wheel in WT. (I'm neutral on WT's new renderer but still...not fan of that...)

[Minigunner]

Oh right. My experience with that was almost nil though.

[NNC]

 Sledgehammer, on 08 July 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

My vote goes for HTTKC, plus multiplayer and WT new episode with some gameplay improvements (like better last boss, better enemy placement, better flamethrower, etc). Oh, and you forgot about GOG release too.

Better enemy placement? That would mean you modify the maps. I think that would be incredibly lame. I agree some of the levels has "usermappy" enemy placement, particularly Bloody Hell and Red Ruckus (with too many mix without coherency), but modifying them would be a bastardization.

My dream is to have 3 new levels instead (to get the standard 11 per episode) in that "definitive edition" and add more focus on the improved fireflies in them. Las Vegas, Hoover Dam would be great choices as a reference to DNF (although hurt DNF2013 legacy a bit), or levels from somewhere else (Niagara Falls, Alhambra, Marrakech, Venice, Iceland, The Yucatan etc.)

[Sledgehammer]

 Nancsi, on 08 July 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Better enemy placement? That would mean you modify the maps. I think that would be incredibly lame. I agree some of the levels has "usermappy" enemy placement, particularly Bloody Hell and Red Ruckus (with too many mix without coherency), but modifying them would be a bastardization.

Well, it depends, I didn't say that it was terrible everywhere. Assuming you know what is wrong with enemies in new episode you should've got the idea what I meant by that (since you mentioned the same Bloody Hell I think you're getting what I tried to say). Though I'd probably prefer if mini-bosses' own projectiles didn't kill them rather than changing their location. However, don't forget about new enemy too. It is very easy to kill them due to their placement on maps.

 Nancsi, on 08 July 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

or levels from somewhere else (Niagara Falls, Alhambra, Marrakech, Venice, Iceland, The Yucatan etc.)

That would be much better since Alien World Order is about visiting other countries. Would be nice to see Japanese map, by the way.

[Paul B]

So i'm going to summarize how I thought this interview went down. Initially it started off really well, structured, concise and goal orientated. However, the further into the video the more off course and diluted the conversations became.. I was disappointed that there was much silence coming from the guys who represent Duke4. I felt there should have been more substance to their questions as well as answers and suggestions on how to move forward. Also, there were more complaints about World Tour that could have been brought to the table in a nice way since the topic did come up, but felt they just went by unmentioned.

Personally, I would have liked to see a closer merger between the two products Eduke32 and World tour. Had these two products come together to offer the best of both worlds I think this title could have been more beneficial to all parties & that was their mistake. I do realize that would have involved more up front costs. In any case, we can't change the past and now we just end up with yet another fork in the Duke franchise which is the last thing Duke needs.

I guess the conversation to me felt a bit one sided. Randy was here to listen to the community but what we didn't hear is what the community is willing to do for Duke? What are things we as a community would like to see in an upcoming game title? I felt like these questions went by unanswered and I'm not sure by having this video conference with the Eduke community really answered the questions Randy was wanting to hear. ( I could tell Fredrick was sitting on the edge of his seat and probably has some great ideas but possibly wants to save them for private discussion but that's too bad because sometimes having outside influences can be beneficial).

I believe Randy is on the right track and has the right vision for a new title but he would need to be more involved with the decision making process and not totally leave it up to a third party. Which means Randy will need to seriously devote a lot of his time making sure the game remains on track. There are a few key ingredients that could help bring Duke to the forefront and for some of those things Duke has to return to its roots. This includes:

1) Same Weapon & Health system that Duke 3D originally had in Duke3d.
2) Bring Back (Deathmatches\Remote Ridicule), Co-op Campaign Multi-player, Dynamic GamePlay.
3) A completely new Duke theme \ missions in a modernized world but not over the top.
4) Having the right balance between City \ Alien Space missions. Like 75/25 split.
5) All levels need to be built with co-op and multiplayer in mind.
6) Giving online players the ability to play as Aliens during online campaign mode.
7) Mod tools for the game so players can make their own content. (This is very import and the only real reason Duke is still alive today). This alone will add a lot of replay value to have easy to use mod tools and this needs to be taken into consideration before the game is started.

If anyone else has suggestions about the future of Duke and what features would enhance the experience we should be voicing them. Lets not make the same old mistakes over again. We also have to stop beating a dead horse. We need to move forward with the times and create a product that will live on in the future just as long as Duke Nukem 3D did for the sake of our children.

[pacman]

 icecoldduke, on 08 July 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

Saying "WT is lame", is a shitty critique. On every game I have ever shipped, there is always people that go "This game is lame". My favorite kind of comments are the ones were people say, "I could make this game so much better in my sleep". I ignore these kind of comments, but apparently Randy takes them personally.

I agree WT could have been better(the low quality audio was bad to say the least), but you guys should stop attacking WT, if you expect Randy to give a shit about us going forward.

What is your problem? I already explained WT had good bits here:

 pacman, on 06 July 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

What we need:

1) A proper, 3 full new episodes with different layouts, a couple comple new proper enemies (like the aweasome netherdrone from the Atomic Edition) (unlike the WT one) with 3 original, cool final bosses that fit the context (like the Atomic Edition episode with the blue mother alien) (unlike the cyclops emperor of WT)
2) A ROBUST netcode just like the modern source ports of Doom have like Zandronum so people can easily gather and enjoy coop and DM in the included or user level maps
3) Polish the source code so the input feels tight (the mouse feels responsive and so on). We dont really need fancy graphical gimmicks, the build engine looks fantastic in modern resolutions. The graphical additions of WT are great but I think its not properly optimized because it takes way too many resources to get smooth fps for a 1997 game with some graphical revamping.
4) Make mappers and modders have all the tools needed to do their job to share and play with the community

thats ALL. thats all we need to keep DN3D community alive. The reason the Doom community is huge and its introduced to milenial kids its because you can play online with no lag, and you have all these constant stream of maps and new mods. Brutal Doom has popularized retro Doom again.

But Duke always had trash online play (sorry its the truth, the netcode has always been terribly bad) so it never got anywhere. It also never got legit oficial good content since the Atomic Edition. I guess you can count Caribbean Edition which was a pretty cool mod.

The WT had really good moments but it doesnt feel like a new SOLID episode. The final boss is a complete joke and the new enemy is just annoying. With more time spent on existing maps and a couple more maps added + better new enemies, it could have been a really good and solid episode.

I wish we could get a proper repackage of DN3D with 3 new episodes to give people incentive to buy the game instead of having yet another copy of DN3D on their steam collection with barely no extras that we haven't seen before a million times (and I would rather have new DN3D episodes than some unreleased old stuff..).

It could have been great, but the overal package ended up rather lame. The only way to fix the situation and give people a real incentive to buy another retro-installement of DN3D, is to give us 3 full, SOLID episodes like the Atomic Edition one, with new real monsters (unlike the WT monsters).

The eDuke32 engine is good enough, but I like the WT SSAO effect, even tho the overal performance needs to be refined to get better FPS. And of course, proper MP for DN3D for once.

We need a solid package that contains the classic AND 3 new solid episodes or else you are crazy if you think people is going to buy DN3D again after megaton and WT.

So ultimately, the Ultimate retro DN3D pack that people want to buy includes:

-eDuke as the engine which has been tested for ages by the community, with the remaining polished stuff that's lacking (and I would like the SSAO effect from WT client there too)
-Multiplayer that doesn't suck, Zandronum style, with some new modes like capture the flag, and other more creative modes (again look at what Zandronum has made for online Doom play)
-All the 4 classic episodes, +Caribbean Edition, +DC it Out, +Nuclear Winter, + WT (with the proper fixes) (if possible also add in PSX and Duke64 for legacy purposes as mods or something, so that content doesn't get lost)
-3 brand new episodes. Polished, it must feel like the Atomic Edition or just any of the 3 classic episodes. Solid new monsters (unlike WT) (like Atomic Edition)
I mean the community has made AMAZING maps for the past 20 years or so for FREE. If you can create 3 new episodes paying people you are doing something wrong.
-All episodes, and user maps and mods, must be easily playable online on deathmatch and coop
-Modding friendly: Look at what Brutal Doom did for Doom. These videos get millions of views on Youtube. Even my 12 year old cousin knows about the classic Doom now and plays it.
-All nicely integrated in Steam so anyone can run this without being a geek
-(optional, because I just want new content, but some people like this): Add in some unreleased stuff for the curious.

If you can get what I said on a package, people will love to buy it again, if not, it will be another dissapointment and people will feel ripped off. It is time to go big or go home.

[DukeNukem64]

 Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

So i'm going to summarize how I thought this interview went down. Initially it started off really well, structured, concise and goal orientated. However, the further into the video the more off course and diluted the conversations became.. I was disappointed that there was much silence coming from the guys who represent Duke4. I felt there should have been more substance to their questions as well as answers and suggestions on how to move forward. Also, there were more complaints about World Tour that could have been brought to the table in a nice way since the topic did come up, but felt they just went by unmentioned.

Personally, I would have liked to see a closer merger between the two products Eduke32 and World tour. Had these two products come together to offer the best of both worlds I think this title could have been more beneficial to all parties & that was their mistake. I do realize that would have involved more up front costs. In any case, we can't change the past and now we just end up with yet another fork in the Duke franchise which is the last thing Duke needs.

I guess the conversation to me felt a bit one sided. Randy was here to listen to the community but what we didn't hear is what the community is willing to do for Duke? What are things we as a community would like to see in an upcoming game title? I felt like these questions went by unanswered and I'm not sure by having this video conference with the Eduke community really answered the questions Randy was wanting to hear. ( I could tell Fredrick was sitting on the edge of his seat and probably has some great ideas but possibly wants to save them for private discussion but that's too bad because sometimes having outside influences can be beneficial).

I believe Randy is on the right track and has the right vision for a new title but he would need to be more involved with the decision making process and not totally leave it up to a third party. Which means Randy will need to seriously devote a lot of his time making sure the game remains on track. There are a few key ingredients that could help bring Duke to the forefront and for some of those things Duke has to return to its roots. This includes:

1) Same Weapon & Health system that Duke 3D originally had in Duke3d.
2) Bring Back (Deathmatches\Remote Ridicule), Co-op Campaign Multi-player, Dynamic GamePlay.
3) A completely new Duke theme \ missions in a modernized world but not over the top.
4) Having the right balance between City \ Alien Space missions. Like 75/25 split.
5) All levels need to be built with co-op and multiplayer in mind.
6) Giving online players the ability to play as Aliens during online campaign mode.
7) Mod tools for the game so players can make their own content. (This is very import and the only real reason Duke is still alive today). This alone will add a lot of replay valve to have easy to use mod tools and this needs to be taken into consideration before the game is started.

If anyone else has suggestions about the future of Duke and what features would enhance the experience we should be voicing them. Lets not make the same old mistakes over again. We also have to stop beating a dead horse. We need to move forward with the times and create a product that will live on in the future just as long as Duke Nukem 3D has for the sake of our children.

The best post I have Seen on this forum.

[TerminX]

 Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

So i'm going to summarize how I thought this interview went down. Initially it started off really well, structured, concise and goal orientated. However, the further into the video the more off course and diluted the conversations became.. I was disappointed that there was much silence coming from the guys who represent Duke4. I felt there should have been more substance to their questions as well as answers and suggestions on how to move forward.

Tbh, I had a really hard time with the call. I wasn't sure if my mic wasn't working half the time or if people were just talking over me. I felt like any time I wanted to say anything I had to wait for someone to take a breath and just interrupt them during that half a second--public speaking is far from my forte!

[Sledgehammer]

Fred had it worse than anyone due to stuttering, though if you want my feedback I could hear and understand you better than anyone else on this stream, you must have good quality mic. Everything you said was loud enough and most importantly clear. Yatta has also pretty good mic, it's a damn shame that we didn't hear you that much just for this reason alone, by the way. It would went definitely better if you could meet together.

At least it probably will be much smoother when you start working with Randy directly and guess you'll be able to tell/ask him necessary things without some kind of inconvenience this time.

Also

Spoiler

Sorry for downvote, Altered Reality, fucked up and missed the button while scrolling, upvoted your other post just in case.

[axl]

My 2 cents about the interview (after a full view):

The thing I will mostly remember is the fact that not only was Randy willing to do this, but the fact that it shows he really is passionate about Duke Nukem. True, he / gearbox made some mistakes (and he is man enough to admit that), but he seems to actually care about the franchise.

The moment he was explaining about the origins of WT and his idea to make a fifth episode with the original mappers, the original Lee Jackson, and Jon St John, that moment he was a Duke fan just like us... and was equally enthousiastic to play it. That is, for me at least, very encouraging.

Now let's hope the discussions remain fruitful and that the Duke reconquers his throne in FPS land. Hail to the goddamn King.

[Altered Reality]

 Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

5) All levels need to be built with co-op and multiplayer in mind.

That's not a good idea. Single player, cooperative multiplayer and competitive multiplayer are three different game scopes, where players behave differently and where levels need to be structured differently. Having the same levels for all three modes would only be possible with a lot of compromises and tradeoffs. Ultimately, it would lead to levels that aren't fit for any of them.

[MajorTom 2417]

 Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

So i'm going to summarize how I thought this interview went down. Initially it started off really well, structured, concise and goal orientated. However, the further into the video the more off course and diluted the conversations became.. I was disappointed that there was much silence coming from the guys who represent Duke4. I felt there should have been more substance to their questions as well as answers and suggestions on how to move forward. Also, there were more complaints about World Tour that could have been brought to the table in a nice way since the topic did come up, but felt they just went by unmentioned.

Personally, I would have liked to see a closer merger between the two products Eduke32 and World tour. Had these two products come together to offer the best of both worlds I think this title could have been more beneficial to all parties & that was their mistake. I do realize that would have involved more up front costs. In any case, we can't change the past and now we just end up with yet another fork in the Duke franchise which is the last thing Duke needs.

I guess the conversation to me felt a bit one sided. Randy was here to listen to the community but what we didn't hear is what the community is willing to do for Duke? What are things we as a community would like to see in an upcoming game title? I felt like these questions went by unanswered and I'm not sure by having this video conference with the Eduke community really answered the questions Randy was wanting to hear. ( I could tell Fredrick was sitting on the edge of his seat and probably has some great ideas but possibly wants to save them for private discussion but that's too bad because sometimes having outside influences can be beneficial).

I believe Randy is on the right track and has the right vision for a new title but he would need to be more involved with the decision making process and not totally leave it up to a third party. Which means Randy will need to seriously devote a lot of his time making sure the game remains on track. There are a few key ingredients that could help bring Duke to the forefront and for some of those things Duke has to return to its roots. This includes:

1) Same Weapon & Health system that Duke 3D originally had in Duke3d.
2) Bring Back (Deathmatches\Remote Ridicule), Co-op Campaign Multi-player, Dynamic GamePlay.
3) A completely new Duke theme \ missions in a modernized world but not over the top.
4) Having the right balance between City \ Alien Space missions. Like 75/25 split.
5) All levels need to be built with co-op and multiplayer in mind.
6) Giving online players the ability to play as Aliens during online campaign mode.
7) Mod tools for the game so players can make their own content. (This is very import and the only real reason Duke is still alive today). This alone will add a lot of replay value to have easy to use mod tools and this needs to be taken into consideration before the game is started.

If anyone else has suggestions about the future of Duke and what features would enhance the experience we should be voicing them. Lets not make the same old mistakes over again. We also have to stop beating a dead horse. We need to move forward with the times and create a product that will live on in the future just as long as Duke Nukem 3D did for the sake of our children.

I say, give him MORE weapons. Something along the lines of this:
========================================
Slot 1 (Melee/temporary weapons)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mighty Foot w/karate kicks & combos
Punching w/combos
Combat Knife
Chainsaw (from Zombie Crisis)
Ripsaw (from WG Realms 2)
Machete (from Vixens)
Katana (from The AMC TC)
Beam Sabre (from The AMC TC)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Liztrooper Pistol (from Attrition)
PYP Gun (from The AMC TC)
Crossbow (from The AMC TC)
Dart Gun (from The AMC TC)
Nail Gun (from The AMC TC)
========================================
Slot 2 (Pistols)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Glock 17 w/akimbo & laser sight
DN64 M1911A w/akimbo & laser sight
EDF Nuclear Pistol (from CA_H Tiles)
Uzi 9mm w/akimbo
Colt Peacemaker Revolver
Desert Eagle (from Nuclear Showdown)
Golden Gun
========================================
Slot 3 (Shotguns)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Winchester 1300 Defender
DN64 Franchi SPAS-12
Four-Barrel Riot Gun
Hunting Rifle (from WG Realms 2)
Sawed-Off Shotgun (from WG Realms 2)
Combat Shotgun (from CA_H Tiles)
Lead Cannon (from Nuclear Showdown)
========================================
Slot 4 (Automatics)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Ripper
DN64 Dual MP5s
DNF 2013 M-16
M-60 (from Nuclear Showdown)
Tommy Gun (from The AMC TC)
AK-47
Battlelord Minigun (from Attrition)
Enforcer Chaingun (from The AMC TC)
========================================
Slot 5 (RPGs)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D RPG
DN64 Grenade Launcher
DNF 2013 RPG
Heavy Missile Launcher (from LameDuke)
========================================
Slot 6 (Throwable Explosives)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Pipebombs
Timed Pipebombs
Proximity TNT (from Nuclear Showdown)
Grenades
========================================
Slot 7 (Crystal-based weapons)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Shrinker
DN3D Expander
DN64 Alien Artifact
DNF 2013 Shrink Ray
Death Ray [purple] (from CA_H Tiles)
Paralyzer [yellow] (from CA_H Tiles)
Psi-Blaster [blue] (from CA_H Tiles)
EP5 Experimental Blaster
========================================
Slot 8 (Heavy Weapons)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Devastator
DNF Devastator
Annihilator (from Duke Xtreme)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
DN64 Missile Launcher
Shock Rifle (from WG Realms 2)
========================================
Slot 9 (Demolitions)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Trip Mines
Satchel Charges
Semtex (from Ultimate Weapons Pack)
Wall Mines (from Infestation in Time)
========================================
Slot 10 (Experimental Weapons)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DN3D Freezethrower
DN64 Plasma Launcher
DN:WT Incinerator
Sonic Resonator
EMP Rifle (from CA_H Tiles)
Ceramic Disk Thrower (from The Gate)
GDF Plasma Gun (from The AMC TC)
Gravity Gun (from the Nuclear Pack)
Neutron Cannon (from CA_H Tiles)
ForceWall Gun (from God of War TC)
========================================

Just a list I threw together in my spare time, of what I'd want Duke's arsenal to be in the "ultimate" total conversion/mod......basically, if he's going to be billed as a one-man army, then give him the weapons to match (as a bonus, NECA could release weapon packs for the new and improved Duke Nukem figure whenever they decide to make one WITH PROPER SWIVEL BICEPS).

[Paul B]

 Major Tom, on 08 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I say, give him MORE weapons. Something along the lines of this:

If you're going to throw that many options into weaponry for Duke then you'd need to have some type of Armory system that you can buy upgraded weapons to add to your arsenal but only able to carry so many at a given time. Similar to how borderlands handled their weapon system\ Far Cry. I enjoyed how FarCry 3 handled weapon upgrades.

[MajorTom 2417]

 Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

If you're going to throw that many options into weaponry for Duke then you'd need to have some type of Armory system that you can buy upgraded weapons to add to your arsenal but only able to carry so many at a given time. Similar to how borderlands handled their weapon system\ Far Cry. I enjoyed how FarCry 3 handled weapon upgrades.

Fair enough. As long as the next game won't have the "only two guns and explosives" issue.

[axl]

 Major Tom, on 08 July 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Fair enough. As long as the next game won't have the "only two guns and explosives" issue.

Personally, I'm not very fond of TOO many weapons... I prefer a balanced weapon set where each weapon has advantages and disadvantages and can be useful throughout the campaign... and with alternate fire modes (like for example Blood or Doom 2016).

[PsychoGoatee]

I enjoyed the chat, mostly an interview with Randy filling us in on what's going on, and that's a cool thing to get. I liked the questions and comparisons to Doom 2016, since that's the first thing that comes to mind for me, how cool it would be to have something like that for Duke.

On the idea of whether World Tour is worth buying with just the extra levels we got, for me it's very worthwhile, I love Alien World Order. It would be cool overall if they were supporting it more and patching things, giving more options (turning off weapon switch menu etc), more mouse options, stuff like that. I'd like even more new Blum and Levelord Duke 3D levels too, but I'm happy we got what we did, since I didn't expect that to ever happen.

On Duke weapons stuff, I've always thought the option to duel wield pistols would be cool, possibly SMGs too like in Duke 64. Just for action movie cool, though I like that Duke's one pistol has always been one of the most useful starter weapons in an FPS game.

(edit: I see I've been roasted by the mods for some reason with the name, and I say hey I'm honored. Cliffy B loves goatse and who doesn't really.)

[LkMax]

On the topic of World Tour, it was really cool that we've got a new episode from the members of the original team, but while there are people who tend to go overblown (and it's not something exclusive to Gearbox, that's common on the internet) some of the criticism was justified like the handling of the port (tecnical issues, easy as fuck boss), the HTTKC backpedalling, no expansion packs (what's the deal with that anyway? I'm curious), the crappy money grab thing with bulletstorm, etc.

Reaching out to the community was a nice move and I'm one to usually advocate for friendly relations, and I keep that view in this case of course despite disliking Gearbox pratices, but I'm just saying that the past wasn't rainbow and candies so it's understandable that people got upset.

Paul B, on 08 July 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

1) Same Weapon & Health system that Duke 3D originally had in Duke3d.

To be fair the pre-2011 ego system could work really well too.

PS:

PsychoGoatsee, on 08 July 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

(edit: I see I've been roasted by the mods for some reason with the name, and I say hey I'm honored. Cliffy B loves goatse and who doesn't really.)

You know, Duke 4 could do with less of this kind of mod-sanctioned immaturity.

[PsychoGoatee]

Turns out it was admin sanctioned, but I don't want to derail the thread, it's just how it is.

[PokeThePower]

Altered Reality, on 08 July 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

That's not a good idea. Single player, cooperative multiplayer and competitive multiplayer are three different game scopes, where players behave differently and where levels need to be structured differently. Having the same levels for all three modes would only be possible with a lot of compromises and tradeoffs. Ultimately, it would lead to levels that aren't fit for any of them.

It worked in the long ago time but indeed, things have gotten more sophisticated since then. Even during Sin for the oilrig I wound up spinning it off to a different map so I could make custom changes and that was 1998. For SpecOps in MW2 they used the core geometry of the SP maps, but had an entire system so we could customize them for SpecOps. Even then we were working with a lot of limitations as to what was possible.

What is common though of course is to pull out sections from single player to use as foundations for MP. That works pretty well and gives the intended effect.

Major Tom, on 08 July 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

Fair enough. As long as the next game won't have the "only two guns and explosives" issue.

I hope this winds up being an artifact of a stressful time in the franchise and is never seen again.

[NNC]

Altered Reality, on 08 July 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

That's not a good idea. Single player, cooperative multiplayer and competitive multiplayer are three different game scopes, where players behave differently and where levels need to be structured differently. Having the same levels for all three modes would only be possible with a lot of compromises and tradeoffs. Ultimately, it would lead to levels that aren't fit for any of them.

Actually it was the problem in some Levelord levels (like Bank Roll, Movie Set, Rabid Transit, Fahrenheit), and sometimes even in AHB levels (like Overlord). They were designed with both SP and MP in mind, the final result was underwhelming in both campaign types though.

[Hendricks266]

NeverSawFreeWilly, on 08 July 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

It worked in the long ago time but indeed, things have gotten more sophisticated since then. Even during Sin for the oilrig I wound up spinning it off to a different map so I could make custom changes and that was 1998.

Don't forget Vacation Dukematch

[Minigunner]

Major Tom, on 08 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I say, give him MORE weapons. Something along the lines of this:

I do agree with having loads of weapons in a game where carryable inventory is limited, but there's a catch: every weapon has to have their own unique purpose. You could even have a 10-slot carry limit (one weapon for each number), but if you induce a lot of variants where the only real difference is appearance and one or two attributes, then it's just too cumbersome. E.G the Devastator and DNF Devastator examples. If they have the same functions as in their respective games, then they're too similar to warrant the latter even existing. However, say, if you make the latter shoot homing (as opposed to non-homing) mini-missiles at a slower rate (as it is in DNF), then there's reason for it to be there as the homing ability alone makes it unique enough to separate it from the Devastator in functionality.

[necroslut]

Minigunner, on 09 July 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

I do agree with having loads of weapons in a game where carryable inventory is limited, but there's a catch: every weapon has to have their own unique purpose. You could even have a 10-slot carry limit (one weapon for each number), but if you induce a lot of variants where the only real difference is appearance and one or two attributes, then it's just too cumbersome. E.G the Devastator and DNF Devastator examples. If they have the same functions as in their respective games, then they're too similar to warrant the latter even existing. However, say, if you make the latter shoot homing (as opposed to non-homing) mini-missiles at a slower rate (as it is in DNF), then there's reason for it to be there as the homing ability alone makes it unique enough to separate it from the Devastator in functionality.

Adding an element of inventory management where it's not needed does not make a game better but the opposite. The school of FPS design where you have six, barely distinguishable machine guns need to die.

[MajorTom 2417]

Minigunner, on 09 July 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

I do agree with having loads of weapons in a game where carryable inventory is limited, but there's a catch: every weapon has to have their own unique purpose. You could even have a 10-slot carry limit (one weapon for each number), but if you induce a lot of variants where the only real difference is appearance and one or two attributes, then it's just too cumbersome. E.G the Devastator and DNF Devastator examples. If they have the same functions as in their respective games, then they're too similar to warrant the latter even existing. However, say, if you make the latter shoot homing (as opposed to non-homing) mini-missiles at a slower rate (as it is in DNF), then there's reason for it to be there as the homing ability alone makes it unique enough to separate it from the Devastator in functionality.

Well, the DN3D Devastator didn't have heat-seeking ammo. The DNF one did, if I recall correctly. And of course, clip-size (the DN3D Devastator had 99 shots.....we all remember how many the DNF one had)

Also, expanding upon that further: upgrades, like in the Attrition mod. And not every weapon for one slot would have the same upgrades available (so you wouldn't have every machine gun shooting freaking caustic rounds).

[spessu_sb]

Major Tom, on 09 July 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Well, the DN3D Devastator didn't have heat-seeking ammo. The DNF one did, if I recall correctly.

I think DNF didn't have homing ability on the Devastator but the RPG did have a lock-on feature that also game critic total biscuit criticized.