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Star Wars: Episode Thread  "Because theres too many awesome things happening for a thread each"

User is offline   Forge 

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#61

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 14 December 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Isn't that the story where Luke and Leia develop a romantic relationship (being released before ESB)?

It's been a long time since I read the book - I don't recall any romantic relationships. I mostly remember it as an exploration/survival & overcoming adversity story.
But yes, it was before ESB was released. If there were any such rabbit holes, they could be written out of the script.
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#62

View Postfuegerstef, on 14 December 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

EDIT:
But for me Rogue One is still one of the best despite it's slow first third.

Well then, there's only one thing could have made it better:


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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#63

Short first impressions review (FULL OF SPOILERS):

Spoiler


I'm also glad that I was able to take my kids to watch these movies in the theater. I never saw a single Star Wars movie in theater when I was a kid. TFA was my first Star Wars film in a cinema. I'm happy I've got a chance to give my kids that experience.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 December 2017 - 07:39 AM

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User is online   Mark. 

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#64

Jar Jar Returns. That was a real LOL. Not just emoticon lol

This post has been edited by Mark.: 15 December 2017 - 07:43 AM

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#65

Imagine the entire original trilogy with blood, all the alternative or unnecessary rhythm breaking scenes that was cutted out, some of scenes exposed in a different order to change it's meaning, cheesy audio effects, pre-SW 60's-70's sci-fi music, a subtitled R2-D2 and and old movie filters.

You have archived The War of the Stars and The War of the Stars II - The Future in Motion the grindhoused Star Wars.

The War of the Stars
https://vimeo.com/151257979

The War of the Stars II - The Future in Motion
https://vimeo.com/151808492
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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#66

I haven't seen it yet and I'm avoiding spoilers, but, I noticed something interesting when checking the score on Rotten Tomatoes. Last Jedi has a 93% rating among reviewers, but only 57% among the actual audience. Why the huge discrepancy? I believe that is highly unusual. For example, let's look at another current high scoring movie. Coco currently has 97% among reviewers and 96% from the audience...almost exactly the same. So what is going on here? Can anyone provide insights without spoilers?
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User is online   Mark. 

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#67

1. The audience was hardcore SW geeks and more critical of the details in the movie.
2. The reviewers were paid off for a great review.
3. A typo in the comparison figures.

Whatever the reason, it is odd.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 15 December 2017 - 01:54 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#68

I'd say door number one. This film really departs from what you'd expect. Everyone wanted this to not be a rehash of ESB like TFA was a rehash of ANH, but when it actually happened I think it took a lot of people off guard and rubbed them the wrong way. Some people don't like their nostalgia played with. I, for one, really enjoyed it and I'm excited for the next episode even more than before as I'm absolutely sure it's going to traverse brand new territory this time and NOT rehash of ROTJ at all.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 December 2017 - 01:59 PM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#69

Surely option 1 has something to do with it. I've also heard that the film has a slower pace and some have said it drags in the middle. General audiences tend to be very impatient.

On a somewhat related note, audiences were very critical of Alien Covenant, whereas I enjoyed it quite a bit. I believe a lot of people just didn't understand or accept what the film was actually about. They wanted it to be about fighting aliens, when really the humans were incidental and it was about the androids and their struggles and philosophy. People's stubborn expectations can often drag down the score of a good film.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#70

I don't think it dragged (in fact, I thought it was a good solid length). But there was a section in the middle that some people felt was out of place and I can understand why. That doesn't really mean it dragged, though.

I think that people who didn't really like TFA will like TLJ and people who really liked TFA will be somewhat disappointed in TLJ. Meanwhile, if you just enjoyed TFA you will enjoy TLJ as well. It continues a trend that TFA started of being better than the PT but maybe not up to most peoples' OT standards.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 December 2017 - 03:28 PM

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User is online   Fox 

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#71

View PostTrooper Dan, on 15 December 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

I haven't seen it yet and I'm avoiding spoilers, but, I noticed something interesting when checking the score on Rotten Tomatoes. Last Jedi has a 93% rating among reviewers, but only 57% among the actual audience. Why the huge discrepancy?

I have no idea how the audience could not like this movie. Maybe the only way to please them would be to show a rerun of Empire.
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User is offline   Forge 

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#72

From the few things I've read, people didn't like the cliff hangers, non-answers about characters, and the disposable characters.

But if you're old enough to remember - the same complaints happened with ESB. (aside from the disposable character - but that happened with Darth Maul)

This post has been edited by Forge: 15 December 2017 - 07:05 PM

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User is offline   fuegerstef 

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#73

View PostFox, on 15 December 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

I have no idea how the audience could not like this movie. Maybe the only way to please them would be to show a rerun of Empire.



Here are my thoughts about TLJ.

Please note that I didn't want this to be a rehash of Empire and I am open for new stuff. The problems I had (and still have) with TLJ are:

(I saw the dubbed version (no original version in my town), so the quotes are translated back to english but might not exactly the original lines word by word)

Spoiler


Just my personal opinion. :)

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This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 16 December 2017 - 02:50 AM

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User is online   Fox 

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#74

View PostForge, on 15 December 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

non-answers about characters, and the disposable characters.

It's the same as the original trilogy. For example, Snoke is very much like the Emperor, a space wizard who ruled the galaxy and died in a non-flattering way.

Lucas made the prequels to explain the origin of the character and everyone hated it.

View Postfuegerstef, on 16 December 2017 - 02:23 AM, said:

To me TLJ only showed that everybody in the galaxy is really stupid (I blame it on the lack of oxygen in space).

Same as the original trilogy.

This post has been edited by Fox: 16 December 2017 - 04:20 AM

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User is offline   fuegerstef 

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#75

Yes, the original trilogy had it's flaws and many mistakes, but not nearly as many as TLJ, which throws every bit of logic out of the window.

And at least Vader and Tarkin felt like threats. The Emperor too. Snoke not so much. He is just "the next guy".


But then ... a new Star Wars movie once was an event people waited years (or even decades) for. Now the next Star Wars movie is only five months away. It is nothing special anymore.


As usual: just my opinion. :)

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This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 16 December 2017 - 06:30 AM

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User is offline   NightFright 

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#76

I believe the discrepancy between official and user reviews is rather simple to explain: hurt pride of fans.

Many fanboys out there had their theories about where Snoke came from, who Rey's parents were and how awesome Luke will be demonstrating his skills with the Force and lightsaber. But Disney showed them all the middle finger and now they just can't handle that they couldn't claim they were on the side that knew it all.

The Last Jedi is intentionally walking down an unconventional path. You have to live with that and keep an open mind or you'll inevitably hate it.


This post has been edited by NightFright: 16 December 2017 - 07:11 AM

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User is online   Fox 

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#77

View Postfuegerstef, on 16 December 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

Yes, the original trilogy had it's flaws and many mistakes, but not nearly as many as TLJ, which throws every bit of logic out of the window.

They are very much the same.
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User is offline   fuegerstef 

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#78

View PostFox, on 16 December 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

They are very much the same.


No, not even close.

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User is online   Fox 

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#79

View PostNightFright, on 16 December 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

I believe the discrepancy between official and user reviews is rather simple to explain: hurt pride of fans.

Many fanboys out there had their theories about where Snoke came from, who Rey's parents were and how awesome Luke will be demonstrating his skills with the Force and lightsaber. But Disney showed them all the middle finger and now they just can't handle that they couldn't claim they were on the side that knew it all.

The Last Jedi is intentionally walking down an unconventional path. You have to live with that and keep an open mind or you'll inevitably hate it.

The Last Jedi was awesome. It was innovative. Yet it captured the feeling of the original trilogy.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#80

View Postfuegerstef, on 16 December 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

And at least Vader and Tarkin felt like threats. The Emperor too. Snoke not so much. He is just "the next guy".


That was exactly the intended effect. What worked before isn't going to work anymore. This was the whole message of the movie from beginning to end.

Quote

But then ... a new Star Wars movie once was an event people waited years (or even decades) for. Now the next Star Wars movie is only five months away. It is nothing special anymore.


This was James Rolfe's opinion as well. I can't stress how much I dislike it. I don't understand it because originally there wasn't even supposed to be an Episode 1-3. After the original trilogy nobody was waiting for another one. It wasn't expected. Then it just happened. Same with this Disney trilogy. Lucas even said he was done with it: "It starts when he's born and ends when he dies. There is no more story." I don't think that argument holds water at all. I've never seen it as a "event" that comes around every other decade or so.

View Postfuegerstef, on 16 December 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

No, not even close.


I've never liked ESB as much as everyone else so I have to agree with Fox here. I wasn't around when ESB came out, but when I watched it it was so different from ANH and had so many uninteresting or unlikeable locations that it seemed like the antithesis of ANH. Now, looking back I prefer ANH the least of the OT, but ESB still remains in that mindset to me. Never preferred it, but I can still respect it and enjoy it no doubt. It's not like I hate it (like so many seem to hate TLJ). ROTJ was always my favourite and I still think it is, but I have to watch TLJ again. Either way, TLJ is going to be just as divisive as ESB. I don't know why or how ESB came to be the "fan favourite" and I don't even know if that's a majority opinion. Is it just because of the "I am your father" revelation? Because as huge as that was, it's still a tiny tiny part of the film. The rest of it is...pretty good, ok, not bad, acceptable, great. Just not the "OMG IT'S PERFECT" that everyone expects everyone else to say.

But what do I know, I didn't mind the ewoks either.

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#81

Happened upon this article today on TLJ. It's loaded with spoilers so don't read if you haven't seen it yet and care about being spoiled. But it sums up my thoughts almost exactly.

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great

Also, I read in another article that Lucas himself saw a screening of the film and said it was "highly impressive" and "beautifully made". Interesting reaction.

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User is offline   Forge 

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#82

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 16 December 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

I've never liked ESB as much as everyone else so I have to agree with Fox here. I wasn't around when ESB came out, but when I watched it it was so different from ANH and had so many uninteresting or unlikeable locations that it seemed like the antithesis of ANH. Now, looking back I prefer ANH the least of the OT, but ESB still remains in that mindset to me. Never preferred it, but I can still respect it and enjoy it no doubt. It's not like I hate it (like so many seem to hate TLJ). ROTJ was always my favourite and I still think it is, but I have to watch TLJ again. Either way, TLJ is going to be just as divisive as ESB. I don't know why or how ESB came to be the "fan favourite" and I don't even know if that's a majority opinion. Is it just because of the "I am your father" revelation? Because as huge as that was, it's still a tiny tiny part of the film. The rest of it is...pretty good, ok, not bad, acceptable, great. Just not the "OMG IT'S PERFECT" that everyone expects everyone else to say.

But what do I know, I didn't mind the ewoks either.

A lot of people hated ESB at the time - for the things I said - which parallel what is happening to this current film.
Plot holes, cliffhangers, unanswered questions about characters.

Quite a few people were actually pissed about how it ended - with no ending.
It also kinda started with no start as well - especially considering the NH ended with a big ol' victory celebration.

ESB gained popularity in hindsight after ROtJ was released and filled in some of the unanswered story lines.

Of course RotJ pissed a few people off when it 'disposed' of Boba Fett in a rather weak way. He's wearing a jet-pak and has weaponry, he can just shoot & fly his ass out of the sarlacc pit. A lot of star wars nerds had a man-crush on that character.


View PostMusicallyInspired, on 16 December 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

This was James Rolfe's opinion as well. I can't stress how much I dislike it. I don't understand it because originally there wasn't even supposed to be an Episode 1-3. After the original trilogy nobody was waiting for another one. It wasn't expected. Then it just happened. Same with this Disney trilogy. Lucas even said he was done with it: "It starts when he's born and ends when he dies. There is no more story." I don't think that argument holds water at all. I've never seen it as a "event" that comes around every other decade or so.

Dislike it or disagree if you wish, but at the time it was true. Rumors and anticipation between the films was pretty fervored for the fan-base. They were big events.
The second trilogy (I thru III) was nothing but rumor for years. People were very excited when the rumors of their making got confirmed.
They came out in rapid succession, but didn't appeal to the audience like the first series for various reasons. This kinda killed it; the expectations, the anticipation, and the excitement. Now it's just a movie series like the marvel comics movies or something.

This post has been edited by Forge: 16 December 2017 - 12:19 PM

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User is offline   fuegerstef 

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#83

Ackbar should have been the one turning the last ship towards the New Order's ships.

1) "Ha, now we got them."

2) THen they realize his plan: "It's a trap".

3) Whooooooosssshhhh.

4) *silence with awesome imagery*

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This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 17 December 2017 - 01:17 AM

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#84

That......is brilliant.

After watching a few reviews I was surprised to learn that James Rolfe loved it but Angry Joe hated it. I really thought it'd be the other way around.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 17 December 2017 - 06:48 AM

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#85

My greatest fear about episode 8 was that it would just be a ripoff of episode 5. Fortunately, that did not happen.
I have a major gripe with it, though, which is...
Spoiler


If your brain tells you one thing and your heart tells you another, get rid of those silly doubts and listen to your brain.

This post has been edited by Altered Reality: 17 December 2017 - 10:56 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#86

Spoiler


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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 17 December 2017 - 12:53 PM

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User is online   Fox 

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#87

Posted Image
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User is offline   NightFright 

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#88

BTW, just in case you haven't read about it yet... maybe there's an explanation for the user ratings on Rotten Tomatoes.

This isn't going the way I thought...


This post has been edited by NightFright: 18 December 2017 - 02:57 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#89

View PostNightFright, on 18 December 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:


the juicier parts:
" Rotten Tomatoes is a site that isn’t exactly well balanced when it comes to representation of critics who are women or people of color."
written by:
Kaitly...."has a love for female superheroes and...watching political satire".

the tl;dr version:
some nazi got butthurt that The Last Jedi has diversity, so they "hacked" the score. Be assured half a dozen times, in case you're hyperventilating, that the scores are meaningless.

This post has been edited by Forge: 18 December 2017 - 07:05 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#90

I think the scores are accurate....for now. Because people have been coming out of the theater actually feeling something, but it was something they didn't like. They didn't like that their expectations weren't met. That's not a bad thing. This to me is confirmation that the movie was a hit.

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