[Forge]

MusicallyInspired, on 23 December 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

But then he renounced his renouncement by saying "I was wrong."

And Hamill took the paycheck

[Forge]

Fox, on 23 December 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

Besides there's a difference between telekinetically levitate yourself and setting off fire from your body.

maybe.
but I compared staving off being boiled alive from the lack of an atmosphere to being boiled alive by being immersed in fire.

[MusicallyInspired]

Forge, on 23 December 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

And Hamill took the paycheck

[Forge]

MusicallyInspired, on 23 December 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

[Hank]

MusicallyInspired, on 22 December 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Come on. Kids love it. At the end of the day this is a kid's movie. Or at LEAST a family movie.

Yep, me too, still trying tot grow up though

If/when you (Star Wars) are that famous, expect to get it from all sides.

[Danukem]

MusicallyInspired, on 22 December 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Come on. Kids love it. At the end of the day this is a kid's movie. Or at LEAST a family movie.

Forge, you're being pedantic about a movie with space wizards. Dial it back a bit. Thinking things through is for Star Trek where it belongs.

Fair point, sort of. But, it IS possible to make a kid-friendly movie that is a good movie all around. Most of the flaws with this film are things that could be fixed without alienating kids in any way. When people reacted negatively to Jar Jar in Phantom Menace, the defenders said exactly what you are saying: "relax, it's a kid's movie".

[Hank]

@ Trooper Dan

George Lucas said that himself
https://www.polygon....ars-celebration

Lucas told actor Warwick Davis, who was moderating the event’s opening panel, that Star Wars was always intended to be enjoyed by “12-year-olds.”

Try it. Put yourself into a stage, when you were an innocent kid, and watch those movies. A kid (at least I) don't do not read professional critics, way too boring. Jar Jar is then just a character, from banished to General, and later part of the Senate.

[Danukem]

Hank, on 23 December 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

George Lucas said that himself
https://www.polygon....ars-celebration

Lucas told actor Warwick Davis, who was moderating the event’s opening panel, that Star Wars was always intended to be enjoyed by “12-year-olds.”

This is well known. I guess I'll just repeat myself: it IS possible to make a kid-friendly movie that is a good movie all around.

I enjoyed ESB when it was released and I was 8 years old. I also enjoy it at the age of 45. Is it easy to make a film that can be enjoyed by all ages? Apparently not. Is it possible, and worth striving for? Yes. Can Disney make lots of money by half-assing it and largely neglecting the older audience? Yes. Should they? No. Should fans be criticized for demanding a better product? I think not.

And one more question: Do fans have to be on a "side" with regard to this film, either loving it or hating it? No, they don't. Unfortunately, that is what seems to be happening. The truth is we can both appreciate what is good about the film while simultaneously criticizing what is bad about it. That's what I try to do -- again, I give the film a 5 out of 10 and I agree it has some strong points. The nature of arguing on the internet and the resulting echo chambers that form tend to push people to extremes, which is unfortunate.

[Forge]

[Ronin]

I thought it was OK, a fun Star Wars film that I was glad I saw but I think we will need to see how the whole story pans out to truly judge this new trilogy. I kind of like this new story arc even with the annoying when watched though a political lens ham-fisted commi/diversity propaganda, I can put that aside and say it's nice to have new Star Wars movie that are fun to watch and not embarrassingly bad.

[MusicallyInspired]

To be clear, I didn't like the Canto Bight (Blight? ) sequence either. But I excuse it because the older I get the less I care to care. I think the whole subplot was necessary to show how wrong Poe, Finn, and Rose were in trying to carry out their unauthorized plan right from its inception....which didn't pan out in the end obviously. That capitalizm-is-bad preachy stuff was just so rushed and ham-fisted. But after all is said an done, whatever. It added to the film's successful portrayal of the Resistance failing again and again and again and again. It was an entirely wasted trip, yes. But it was necessary to see that it was wasted. So it wasn't wasted story-wise. It was maybe a small slice of prequel-era aesthetics and humour in an otherwise tonally well-nailed movie instead of being ENTIRELY prequel-silly. So, again, I excuse it. I agree it could have been done better, though.

[Hank]

Trooper Dan, on 23 December 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

This is well known. I guess I'll just repeat myself: it IS possible to make a kid-friendly movie that is a good movie all around.

I enjoyed ESB when it was released and I was 8 years old. I also enjoy it at the age of 45. Is it easy to make a film that can be enjoyed by all ages? Apparently not. Is it possible, and worth striving for? Yes. Can Disney make lots of money by half-assing it and largely neglecting the older audience? Yes. Should they? No. Should fans be criticized for demanding a better product? I think not.

And one more question: Do fans have to be on a "side" with regard to this film, either loving it or hating it? No, they don't. Unfortunately, that is what seems to be happening. The truth is we can both appreciate what is good about the film while simultaneously criticizing what is bad about it. That's what I try to do -- again, I give the film a 5 out of 10 and I agree it has some strong points. The nature of arguing on the internet and the resulting echo chambers that form tend to push people to extremes, which is unfortunate.

You missed it.
When I first watched Star Wars (first ever movie) and seen an entire planet get blown up, I thought, what the fuck is this shit, and walked out of the theater. I was 18, opinionated, and with very little English knowledge at the time, understood a fraction of the dialogs.

Fast forward to Phantom Menace, on a borrowed DVD, watched it, and loved it. Because of this, I gave the original movies a second chance. And lo and behold, those too captured my imagination.

One thing I agree with you, arguing about it is futile.

Cheers
Hanky Poo

[Merlijn]

Saw it last Tuesday, and I'm still conflicted about the movie. If you don't care too much about the saga and the lore, it's a fun and enjoyable adventure movie in space.
The visuals are absolutely beautiful, there are several memorable moments and the acting is generally good.
But yeah, I can understand why some fans of the series are pissed.

In my opinion, this new trilogy faces 1 very fundamental problem: the "skywalker saga" was perfectly wrapped up at the end of ROTJ.
There was no story left to tell, no real reason to continue the saga (except money).

So a new trilogy based on the skywalkers was going to clash with the previous installments, no matter what.
Because they basically had to undo the end of ROTJ in order to tell a new story.
And I think it's very understandable that some people don't like that.

As for TLJ itself, I think it has some absolutely brilliant moments, and some genuinely terrible moments as well.
But overall I enjoyed it more than TFA. Rogue One is still my favorite though.

EDIT: also this video is pretty accurate:

[NightFright]

Undoing ROTJ was quite a mistake. Luke is the only Jedi at the end of the movie, and badically nothing changes about that for 30 years. Then he meets Rey, gives her a lecture of 3 short lessons, we have two Jedi for a short time, then it's just one again. It's sad and frustrating to see, I admit that.

We just need to accept that the Skywalker bloodline is coming to an end, and unfortunately in a much less satisfying manner that we had all hoped for.

[Forge]

emo Solo-Organa-Amidala is a Skywalker.

[Danukem]

MusicallyInspired, on 23 December 2017 - 09:11 PM, said:

To be clear, I didn't like the Canto Bight (Blight? ) sequence either. But I excuse it because the older I get the less I care to care. I think the whole subplot was necessary to show how wrong Poe, Finn, and Rose were in trying to carry out their unauthorized plan right from its inception....which didn't pan out in the end obviously. That capitalizm-is-bad preachy stuff was just so rushed and ham-fisted. But after all is said an done, whatever. It added to the film's successful portrayal of the Resistance failing again and again and again and again. It was an entirely wasted trip, yes. But it was necessary to see that it was wasted. So it wasn't wasted story-wise. It was maybe a small slice of prequel-era aesthetics and humour in an otherwise tonally well-nailed movie instead of being ENTIRELY prequel-silly. So, again, I excuse it. I agree it could have been done better, though.

I sort of agree with you and sort of don't. I'm not trying to be argumentative at this point, but I think it's worth discussing in more detail. As I get older, I too find that I care less about any particular film or entertainment. I also understand that I am no longer the intended audience and never will be again. Big budget films are not made to please grumpy old men. On the other hand, as I get older I do care more about craftmanship and more about the qualities that make things good in general. I care more about the analysis of the thing than the thing itself.

That said, I believe the fundamental problem with the side quests in the film is that they were simply not very entertaining or memorable. It is understood that stories have necessary elements and that certain things happen in a story because they need to happen to make a point or to make things progress in a certain way. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the film needed to have long side-quests where the rebellion is seen to fail again and again by fighting against itself and not trusting each other until they finally learn their lesson and work together in the end. Still, that is no excuse for making said necessary elements of poor quality, boring or unmemorable. It's actually fine to have a story in which some of the protagonists ultimately end up not accomplishing anything useful. My favorite example is Raiders of the Lost Ark -- if you think about it, the big events in the movie would of unfolded in pretty much the same way even if Indy didn't exist.

[Fox]

Forge, on 24 December 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

emo Solo-Organa-Amidala is a Skywalker.

Isn't Kylo Ren like a general from a dictatorship? People like that usually have harems of women.

[Danukem]

Fox, on 24 December 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

Isn't Kylo Ren like a general from a dictatorship? People like that usually have harems of women.

He could if he wanted, but in the films he is never shown having any sort of sexuality.

[Merlijn]

He did appear without a shirt in one scene, so.. there's that I guess. XD

[Forge]

Merlijn, on 25 December 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

He did appear without a shirt in one scene, so.. there's that I guess. XD

That was for you. Don't judge.

[Altered Reality]

Forge, on 22 December 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

They're not "wizards", their cells are infected with a heavy dose of space-herpes. It's "scientific".

My headcanon: midichlorians are not microbes, nor are they organic. They are a form of grey goo that was created an even longer time ago by an ancient species known as the Whills, to obtain absolute control over matter, and which spread out through the whole galaxy, connecting to one another into a galaxy-wide network called "the Force". They are absolutely everywhere, and they can interface with brains, as well as move inanimate matter at a molecular level. As time passed, the knowledge of their technological nature was lost, and the little knowledge that remained about them was reworked into many systems of mysticism. Some scientifically-inclined individuals have tried to determine what was real and what was mystical fluff, but they still got many things wrong. So, Qui-Gon was wrong, from a certain point of view.

[Altered Reality]

(delete double post)

[Forge]

Altered Reality, on 26 December 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

midichlorians are not microbes, nor are they organic.

that's what she said when she was trying to convince everyone that it was just a cold-sore

[Hank]

[Altered Reality]

Okay, I just remembered another part of episode 8 I didn't like: in the flashback scene, Luke has a serious case of plot-induced idiocy.
If you have a lightsaber and you want to kill someone in their sleep, you DON'T light your lightsaber and stare at your target like a dumbass. You place the fun end of your lightsaber an inch or so from your target's head, and THEN you light it.

[MusicallyInspired]

That just proves he didn't really want to do it.

[Merlijn]

Went to the movie a second time, it didn't really change my opinion.

The movie would have been so much better if the unneccesary subplots were cut out. The first half of this movie is a drag.
The scenes in the throne room are great though, and I liked the climax (except for the stuff with Finn and Rose).

Next time cut out the fluff and keep focus on Kylo/Luke/Rey.

[MusicallyInspired]

It's not fluff. It was there to show how badly they screwed up. It had to take you all through it to make you think it was the right decision, and then pull the rug out from under you. How is that fluff? It was very effective at capitalizing on the Resistance's constant failures which eventually drew their numbers down to a mere handful. I dislike HOW they portrayed it (the stuff in the middle), but it wasn't unnecessary. It was very necessary.

Merlijn, on 28 December 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Next time cut out the fluff and keep focus on Kylo/Luke/Rey.

"Next time after ESB cut out the fluff with Han, Leia, Lando, and Threepio, and keep the focus on Luke/Yoda/Vader."

[Hank]

Kids loved it, have yet to see it myself, but I will very soon.

to lighten up the mood

[Merlijn]

MusicallyInspired, on 28 December 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

It's not fluff. It was there to show how badly they screwed up. It had to take you all through it to make you think it was the right decision, and then pull the rug out from under you. How is that fluff? It was very effective at capitalizing on the Resistance's constant failures which eventually drew their numbers down to a mere handful. I dislike HOW they portrayed it (the stuff in the middle), but it wasn't unnecessary. It was very necessary.



"Next time after ESB cut out the fluff with Han, Leia, Lando, and Threepio, and keep the focus on Luke/Yoda/Vader."

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think the whole casino part could have easily been cut out and you still could make the same points about desparate plans and failure.
Calling it "fluff" was a bit harsh maybe, but I do think the movie could have trimmed out some of the subplots and even some of the characters (Holdo could have easily been replaced by Leia or Ackbar, for example). By comparison, ESB has a pretty tight narrative. And even though the heroes also fail in that movie, they didn't feel incompetent (which is a very thin line),

In the end it's all subjective. I didn't hate the movie, just think it could have been better.