[FistMarine]

edit

[TerminX]

It's of questionable legality... it just happens to be hosted on a widely known archive of all kinds of material that just happens to have a DMCA exemption. This version of the game was even given out for free on a PC Gamer cover disc sometime after Atomic Edition was out, so I don't really give a shit.

[icecoldduke]

Forge, on 13 April 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

and i would guess that assuming 1.3 is abandonware is probably inaccurate

To my knowledge abandonware has no legal standing, the copyright holder can issue a C&D and if needed take someone to court that distributes "abandonware" content. Am I wrong on that? Has there been any legal president to challenge a copyright holders right on old content that is covered by a valid patent?

TerminX, on 13 April 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

it just happens to be hosted on a widely known archive of all kinds of material that just happens to have a DMCA exemption.

I didn't know that, that's awesome.

[Danukem]

icecoldduke, on 13 April 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

To my knowledge abandonware has no legal standing, the copyright holder can issue a C&D and if needed take someone to court that distributes "abandonware" content.

That is correct. When we call something "abandonware" that signifies our belief that the owner won't take legal action, not that they can't.

[Kyanos]

TerminX, on 13 April 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's of questionable legality... it just happens to be hosted on a widely known archive of all kinds of material that just happens to have a DMCA exemption. This version of the game was even given out for free on a PC Gamer cover disc sometime after Atomic Edition was out, so I don't really give a shit.

1.4 is on the site as well

[deuxsonic]

Drek, on 13 April 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

1.4 is on the site as well

As a download? Some of those entries are just manual scans and screensavers. If that's the case then you could just grab the 1.5 patch from 3D Realms' site.

[Yatta]

xMobilemux, on 12 April 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

All you have to do is wait, Duke3D was removed from digital stores so Gearbox could take ownership of Duke3D and then resell them on digital stores at a later date all thanks to the ass hats that are currently running the embarrassment that used to be 3D Realms.

I saw somewhere(on this forum I think) that Gearbox had stated that they are gonna bring Duke3D back soon.

The people who own the current 3D Realms are not at fault. In fact, they even ported Duke and other 3DR games to Steam. Gearbox is the reason Duke is no longer available digitally at the moment. Gearbox is also the reason that 3D Realms was not allowed to make other Duke games like it planned, which is why Bombshell ended up being Bombshell instead of being a Duke game like 3DR had originally intended.

Micky C, on 12 April 2016 - 02:28 AM, said:

Doesn't Duke4.net have lots of gog accounts with copies of Duke 3D? There used to be that "read me" thing at the top of forums about it. Maybe Yatta is the one to contact about that.

I can still give those out and not because I have multiple GoG accounts. I simply bought a large number of digital GoG copies that I can gift at any time I want. Not sure why the "read me" was taken down, as it has nothing to do with Duke no longer being available for purchase on GoG. Here's a few for anyone who wants to claim 'em:

U3S7-K9BA-SREE-GH58

D3SY-RGBV-6G96-H52L

V4P6-HRGB-25GK-3UZA

UDA8-KSFE-G8T9-ZAWS

KRZN-QDCP-QHPK-JNZ4

Redeem at https://www.gog.com/redeem

[Robman]

Yatta, on 13 April 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

Free stuff.

I don't personally need one, but that is pretty nice of you Yatta.

[deuxsonic]

Gearbox sucks, water is wet, etc.

[Kyanos]

deuxsonic, on 13 April 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

As a download? Some of those entries are just manual scans and screensavers. If that's the case then you could just grab the 1.5 patch from 3D Realms' site.

Yes it's the full plutonium grp, back on the first page of this thread I posted about the DOS memories project 1980-2003 it's 8 gigs of archived games.

[Forge]

Trooper Dan, on 13 April 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

That is correct. When we call something "abandonware" that signifies our belief that the owner won't take legal action, not that they can't.

assuming gearbox won't take legal action is like assuming the poisonous snake hiding in the bushes won't strike you as you walk by

once they figure out what they want to include in their duke3d package, which they will over-charge for, then they'll probably start issuing C & D's to all new maps and mods unless you purchase a license allowing you to make third-party addons. Everyone knows it's not good business to allow people to make free stuff for something you own without getting a monetary return for their efforts.

[TheDragonLiner]

Forge, on 14 April 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

assuming gearbox won't take legal action is like assuming the poisonous snake hiding in the bushes won't strike you as you walk by

once they figure out what they want to include in their duke3d package, which they will over-charge for, then they'll probably start issuing C & D's to all new maps and mods unless you purchase a license allowing you to make third-party addons. Everyone knows it's not good business to allow people to make free stuff for something you own without getting a monetary return for their efforts.

That would be risky for Gearbox, not only because it would nuke their reputation up their ass but it could also give moders a reason to ask for money either from the people or from Gearbox themselves as if it were a form of partnership of some sort and I doubt they'd want to risk the latter especially given the shitty economics and mentalities of nowadays ...

You guys are scaring the hell outta me with that conversation O_o

[Kyanos]

Forge, on 14 April 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

assuming gearbox won't take legal action is like assuming the poisonous snake hiding in the bushes won't strike you as you walk by

once they figure out what they want to include in their duke3d package, which they will over-charge for, then they'll probably start issuing C & D's to all new maps and mods unless you purchase a license allowing you to make third-party addons. Everyone knows it's not good business to allow people to make free stuff for something you own without getting a monetary return for their efforts.

Nice bait, the game came with tools and instructions to make addons. No one can buy the duke ip then make claims to own maps and mods. Maybe if they release a new digital copy with a ( ) click here if you agree with these terms box, like the 3DRealms version had last year

[DustFalcon85]

There's Duke Assault in full: https://archive.org/...om-duke-assault

and the (infamous) Nuke It 1000 levels: https://archive.org/...rom-nukeit-1000

EDIT: And Duke Zone II! https://archive.org/...rom-duke-zone-2

[Forge]

It is a bait statement, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that gearbox removes editing tools and claims any use of their art or likenesses of their characters from the game is infringment

[Player Lin]

Forge, on 14 April 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

It is a bait statement, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that gearbox removes editing tools and claims any use of their art or likenesses of their characters from the game is infringment

Even though that, I'm not sure Gearbox Shovelware dares do this very stupid thing, it's like they want to suicide and pisses the whole old Duke fans off.

They're not EA or Warner Bros.

[Hank]

Here is the text permitting mapping, found in the Duke 3D game under License.doc (.txt)

Spoiler

[3] NEW LEVELS. "New Levels" are data that modify or substitute for program data, thus modifying or replacing one or more program levels. Creating or distributing a New Level or a software tool that has no substantial purpose other than to contribute to the creation of a New Level infringes rights of 3D Realms and is prohibited by law except as permitted by 3D Realms. 3D REALMS PERMITS NEW LEVELS ONLY THAT MEET ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS:

[A] The Level must only work with a RETAIL episode of the program. It must NOT work with the shareware version of Episode one.

[B] The level must not contain modifications to any COM, EXE, or DLL, or to other executable file.

[C] The level must not contain any illegal material, or (without appropriate irrevocable licenses) any trademarks, copyright protected work, or other property of third parties.

[D] The level must prominently identify at least in every online description and with reasonable duration on an opening screen

(1) the name and email address of the level's creators, and
(2) the words "THIS LEVEL IS NOT MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY 3D REALMS".

[E] The level and any use of it must be offered solely for free (other than any incidental online charges).

[F] By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Level, all owners of any trademark, copyright or other right, title or interest therein (to the extent different from the program as originally distributed by 3D Realms) grant back to 3D Realms an irrevocable royalty free right to distribute the level.

[G] The distributor of any New Level or Level Editor must be authorized to distribute the program itself (either in writing, or by being within a category where no writing is needed under this license agreement).

The catch term(s) are highlighted in bold.
Mapping was permitted, provided one followed certain specific requirements. That's the license I am mapping with because that is the Duke 3D I own.
Who knows and who cares what Gearbox does from here on in?
And since Yatta was clever enough to get and offer a bunch of GoG versions of Duke 3D to us, the new fans are save for the moment. All Hail Yatta.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Hank, on 14 April 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Mapping was permitted, provided one followed certain specific requirements. That's the license I am mapping with because that is the Duke 3D I own.

That license is null and void because it is now in the hands of Gearbox, not 3D Realms. Also licences and EULAs are always made to be revocable by the licensor. You are basically surrendering all of your rights to the publisher.

[TheDragonLiner]

Especially when the one who buys the license also buys its rules and laws and therefore buys the rights to modify them, so if GearBox decides to make moding illegal (which would be completely stupid as said previously) they won't risk any lawsuit or anything (just being nuked by fans)

[Kyanos]

Only in 2016 would we discuss the possibility of a corporation retroactively removing mod tools from a 20 year old game.

Is big gaming so threatened by open source Duke3D and the build engine?

[Forge]

my favorite line:

By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Level, all owners of any trademark, copyright or other right, title or interest therein (to the extent different from the program as originally distributed by 3D Realms) grant back to 3D Realms an irrevocable royalty free right to distribute the level.

So gearbox can take all the user made duke3d maps ever created, package them, sell them, and not have to pay the maker one penny.

Of course this would also occur after they revoke the right to create new duke3d user made maps.

A whole plethora of unplundered material just waiting to be cornered and exploited for a quick buck.

[Hendricks266]

The Duke!Zone clause.

[Hank]

Inspector Lagomorf, on 15 April 2016 - 05:01 AM, said:

That license is null and void because it is now in the hands of Gearbox, not 3D Realms. Also licences and EULAs are always made to be revocable by the licensor. You are basically surrendering all of your rights to the publisher.

No, I am not, only if I am in preach of contract.
A paragraph from the EULA file in the GoG bundle:
5.Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights of Company, this Agreement and your right to use the Program may automatically terminate without notice from Company if you fail to comply with any provision of this Agreement or any terms and conditions associated with the Program. In such event, you must destroy all copies of this Program and all of its component parts.

Gearbox simply removed the game as is, and I am following the license of the product I've got. There is not conflict on either side of the fence here.
If Gearbox wants to publish and enforce a revised mapping license, let them, I wish them all the best from the bottom of my heart.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Hank, on 15 April 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

No, I am not, only if I am in preach of contract.
A paragraph from the EULA file in the GoG bundle:
5.Termination. Without prejudice to any other rights of Company, this Agreement and your right to use the Program may automatically terminate without notice from Company if you fail to comply with any provision of this Agreement or any terms and conditions associated with the Program. In such event, you must destroy all copies of this Program and all of its component parts.

Gearbox simply removed the game as is, and I am following the license of the product I've got. There is not conflict on either side of the fence here.
If Gearbox wants to publish and enforce a revised mapping license, let them, I wish them all the best from the bottom of my heart.

That EULA file also says, and I paraphrase, "The licensor grants you a non-exclusive license to use this software and any accompanying documentation subject to your acceptance of the following provisions." The licensor, in this case, was 3D Realms.

Unless the court ruling between Gearbox vs 3D Realms explicitly stated that licenses are transferred as-is between the two companies, the license can be assumed to be not transferred. It is also non-exclusive which means that it is not strictly between 3D Realms, and the owner of the game prior to the court ruling. Copyright/contract law as decided in the courts trumps agreements.

So if Gearbox comes up with a new EULA, it can be assumed that it overrides all previous EULAs as it now reflects an agreement between Gearbox (the new owner) and the consumer.

[Kyanos]

To be clear, this only applies to Duke3D maps. Eduke32 and Mapster32 do not come with a EULA in regards to maps made (for non Duke games and TCs) all this is sorta trumped by the gpl and build license.

[Hank]

Inspector Lagomorf, on 15 April 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

That EULA file also says, and I paraphrase, "The licensor grants you a non-exclusive license to use this software and any accompanying documentation subject to your acceptance of the following provisions." The licensor, in this case, was 3D Realms.

Unless the court ruling between Gearbox vs 3D Realms explicitly stated that licenses are transferred as-is between the two companies, the license can be assumed to be not transferred. It is also non-exclusive which means that it is not strictly between 3D Realms, and the owner of the game prior to the court ruling. Copyright/contract law as decided in the courts trumps agreements.

So if Gearbox comes up with a new EULA, it can be assumed that it overrides all previous EULAs as it now reflects an agreement between Gearbox (the new owner) and the consumer.

The EULA (was) is between GoG and the person who bought the game, and I don't paraphrase I read it.
You may not transfer, distribute, rent, sub-license, or lease the Program or documentation, except as provided herein; alter, modify, or adapt the Program or documentation, or portions thereof including, but not limited to, translation, decompiling or disassembling. You agree not to modify or attempt to reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Program, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted under applicable law notwithstanding this limitation. All rights not expressly granted under this Agreement are reserved by Company.
I fail to see how Gearbox can annul the accompanying permission to produce maps within the product, I currently possess.


@ Drek - Yeah, I use my own stuff anyway, but some stuff is from Good ol' Duke.

[Forge]

Drek, on 15 April 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

To be clear, this only applies to Duke3D maps. Eduke32 and Mapster32 do not come with a EULA in regards to maps made (for non Duke games and TCs) all this is sorta trumped by the gpl and build license.

Of course.
And what they'll do is put a C & D on all new user made maps that have duke3d assets, grab a large collection of maps that have already been made, package them, pay some people to make a handful of new maps as sale bait, bundle it all together, then over-charge for it.

[TheDragonLiner]

Wouldn't this be infringement to the Intellectual Property rights ?
This could render them vulnerable to lawsuits from the authors of the maps they'd have scavenged

[Forge]

thedrawliner, on 15 April 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

Wouldn't this be infringement to the Intellectual Property rights ?
This could render them vulnerable to lawsuits from the authors of the maps they'd have scavenged

No.
All they have to do is adapt the EULA

By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Level, all owners of any trademark, copyright or other right, title or interest therein (to the extent different from the program as originally distributed by 3D Realms) grant back to 3D Realms an irrevocable royalty free right to distribute the level.

replace 3DRealms with Gearbox and voila! They own the rights to re-distibute maps using their assets without paying the maker anything.

[Hank]

Forge, on 15 April 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

No.
All they have to do is adapt the EULA

By distributing or permitting the distribution of any New Level, all owners of any trademark, copyright or other right, title or interest therein (to the extent different from the program as originally distributed by 3D Realms) grant back to 3D Realms an irrevocable royalty free right to distribute the level.

replace 3DRealms with Gearbox and voila! They own the rights to re-distibute maps using their assets without paying the maker anything.

I just add this in addition:
from the license .doc file:
[C] The level must not contain any illegal material, or (without appropriate irrevocable licenses) any trademarks, copyright protected work, or other property of third parties.
Since my textures and actors are copyright by me, I would actually break a clause of said license agreement.
Thanks, this really made my weekend


I'm overthinking this. I'll wait for what actually will happen.