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Shadow Warrior corner  "This thread has alotta Wangs! Discussions on Shadow Warrior only."

User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 5,904

  #511

View Postaxl, on 13 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Since it will support all Build games, will it make EDuke32 obsolete?

No, it will always be possible to do advanced things much more easily with access to source code. I can't imagine replicating all of EDuke32's modding features, client/server networking, etc by injecting them into the DOS exe. The most modification capacity that will be possible would be something like the Lua scripting featured in some 8-bit and 16-bit console emulators. Enough to fix bugs and make small changes, but anything drastic would be an uphill battle.

That said, my project could provide a far more accurate experience that the port that currently calls itself "Chocolate Duke". The primary goal of the project is to provide a 100% (and I mean 100%) accurate experience, with as many modern conveniences as possible, and without the frustrations and performance impacts of an emulator. My work will also be open source and unobfuscated.

View Postaxl, on 13 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Do you have like a deadline in your mind?

Two years ago, when I learned enough about x86 assembly through my university studies to pull it off.

One year ago, when I almost got to the fun part after working on the base layer for a computer security course final project.

Me right now, restraining myself due to other responsibilities:



View Postaxl, on 13 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Shouldn't we make a separate thread on this?

It would make sense, but I haven't even announced this project yet, and I don't want to draw much attention to yet another thing I say I'd like to do but haven't done the grunt work of delivering on. There are other things much closer within reach.

View Postaxl, on 13 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

I'm very curious about your port ! Sorry if I ask too many questions :)

No worries. :)
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User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 347

#512

How complex was the Ninja AI in SW97? They were marketed as being able to do everything a player can (swimming, climbing ladders, jumping, crouching), which I'd say is ahead of Quake 2's, but does it simply stop there? I seem to recall a few instances where they ducked under my rockets, but Quake 2 enemies can also do that. Do they have any special AI routine that makes them search out the player in a special manner or something (like Coolie Ghosts circling around in the air), or do they only walk/swim/climb/jump/crawl forward in a straight line to kill the player?
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User is offline   Ninjakitty 

  • 83

#513

View PostPikaCommando, on 24 October 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

How complex was the Ninja AI in SW97? They were marketed as being able to do everything a player can (swimming, climbing ladders, jumping, crouching), which I'd say is ahead of Quake 2's, but does it simply stop there? I seem to recall a few instances where they ducked under my rockets, but Quake 2 enemies can also do that. Do they have any special AI routine that makes them search out the player in a special manner or something (like Coolie Ghosts circling around in the air), or do they only walk/swim/climb/jump/crawl forward in a straight line to kill the player?

I don't know whether they can swim or not, but they never want to seem to get into a water sector, despite having a swimming animation. They can definitely climb, jump, and duck, though. They don't really seek out the player before seeing them for the first time, at which point they actually acknowledge the player. And once they have acknowledged the player, they seem to have a preference to stay within a certain distance from the player, shoot, and reposition if the player moves too much while close to them or moves out of their line of sight.

When life gives you lemons... https://youtu.be/CM-CIvMEqUs?t=52
1

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#514

I thought enemies wouldn't see you if you're under water while they're above it?
0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 347

#515

View PostNinjakitty, on 24 October 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

I don't know whether they can swim or not, but they never want to seem to get into a water sector, despite having a swimming animation.


Now that you mentioned it, I can't recall any instances of seeing them swimming in the final game too but I know they did swim in one of the alpha's demo loops



This post has been edited by PikaCommando: 24 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

1

User is offline   Ninjakitty 

  • 83

#516

View PostPhredreeke, on 24 October 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

I thought enemies wouldn't see you if you're under water while they're above it?

It depends. If it's a Room-Over-Room (the kind where you can see into the water), then they will be able to see you.

If it's just a regular body of water, what the game actually does is teleport you to an underwater sector whenever you crouch in the water entrance sector. These sectors are actually separate, and are in separate parts of the map, so enemies can't see through it.

When life gives you lemons... https://youtu.be/CM-CIvMEqUs?t=52
1

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#517

Yeah I was thinking of it from a Duke/Blood perspective
0

User is offline   PikaCommando 

  • 347

#518

Hmm, I remember fighting swimming Cultists in Blood. iirc they could do everything the player can too. Are Cultists from Blood and Ninjas from Shadow Warrior running on the same AI/codebase?
0

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#519

Probably not, given that Blood was developed outside of 3D Realms, even before they sold the rights to it
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User is offline   Jim 

  • 16

#520

SW maps with mines removed by Phredreeke

http://s000.tinyuplo...730926990238508

http://s000.tinyuplo...895652601588838

http://s000.tinyuplo...469215497297591
1

User is online   fuegerstef 

  • 587

#521

View PostJim, on 28 October 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:



I replaced the maps in the offical grp-file and it works like a charm. :)

A few free casual games by me: http://gamejolt.com/...uegerstef/2615/
0

User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 750

#522

Bump time! \o/

Does anyone know what's the current status of SWP and IcedSW? For all I know, their development has pretty much stopped (the last SWP update I know came from Hendricks on Feb 2, 2016, and IcedSW did not continue past July 23, 2017). What are the chances we'll see a decent SW port in a foreseeable future (I am not counting Redux now)?


This post has been edited by NightFright: 08 March 2018 - 07:45 AM

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User is offline   Player Lin 

  • 228

#523

VoidSW? But...you know that one still in heavy WIP too...at least it's more hope than IcedSW? :unsure:

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(
0

User is offline   axl 

  • 120

#524

Weren't there plans for ESW32 ?

At least, that's what I'm hoping for :)
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User is offline   Player Lin 

  • 228

#525

View Postaxl, on 08 March 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Weren't there plans for ESW32 ?

At least, that's what I'm hoping for :)


VoidSW = ESW32(SW with eduke32 engine base)

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(
1

User is offline   axl 

  • 120

#526

View PostPlayer Lin, on 08 March 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

VoidSW = ESW32(SW with eduke32 engine base)


Aha ! My mistake. Thanks for clarifying this up !
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 750

#527

It was also mentioned by Hendricks that there may eventually be a port that can run ALL Build games. For the time being, I would already be glad if SW got some kinda love. Duke and Blood are pretty much covered by now, even though the approaches are different.
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User is offline   axl 

  • 120

#528

View PostNightFright, on 08 March 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

It was also mentioned by Hendricks that there may eventually be a port that can run ALL Build games. For the time being, I would already be glad if SW got some kinda love. Duke and Blood are pretty much covered by now, even though the approaches are different.


I wouldn't call Blood pretty much covered. Bloodgdx is great and probably the best thing that has happened to Blood in years, but we still don't have the blood source. So we're not completely future proof in that department. And yes, a global port that is able to run all build games... well... that's truely the height of gaming excitement :lol:
1

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 177

#529

Just finished Shadow Warrior and Wanton Desctruction and hey, I finally get why this game is a classic! :D

The thing is that SW was the Build game I liked the least from the "big 3" because its mechanics just felt off. Because of this when I played the game for the first time back in the day I chose a lower difficulty and I think that was the mistake that lead me to believe that this game is just mediocre.

The reality is however that SW is a fantastic shooter... once you get how it works. Now I set the difficulty to Who Wants Wang and after a few hours of struggle I got it: Shadow Warrior does not really emphasize skill based gameplay, it's more of a mechanical shooter where knowing your mechanics leads to success. In most FPS games knowing the mechanics is mostly about learning enemy patterns: usually there are right weapons for certain situations but at the end of the day if you know the patterns you can kill everything with almost any weapon, it's mostly skill that matters. SW is different, in this game having the right tool for the job is a lot more important than raw player skill. Dodging a shadow ninja's attack is near impossible even if you keep your distance so you have to quickly destroy them with explosives or the rail gun. You can shoot a swarm of bees with your uzis until you run out of ammo and chances are you'll still die or lose a lot of health in the process but if you drop a gas bomb or use explosives well / use the burst fire of the shotgun well they will bite the dust in seconds. It's weird compared to other shooters but that's what makes the game unique and dynamic because you really can't sit on your ammo for most of the weapons. After you get to know this stuff even No Pain No Gain difficulty becomes manageable.

I was also very surprised by Wanton Destruction's quality. I never liked Sunstorm's work that much in Duke and Blood and that's why I've never played WD before but man, that was another mistake because this expansion is actually fantastic. You get that convoluted "Sunstorm map design" here too but now it works wonderfully: I never felt lost, I never felt that keys were hidden at stupidly random places because the level design always lead me to the right places and to the right solutions. After playing this it's just sad that the product they really nailed it with only saw the light of day a long time after they went bankrupt because I actually enjoyed WD more than the base game.

The problems I had with the game mostly came from Classic Redux this time. Even though this source port got a lot of post-release support there are still some stupid issues in it that never got fixed: you get these weird brightness changes sometimes when you quicksave and the crosshair for the railgun is a bit off (if the enemy is further away you have to aim to the left of the crosshair, if you don't you'll miss). Mouse aiming is also not very smooth, especially when it comes to aiming vertically so you can't be really precise with it. Because of this I mostly had to rely on flickshots with the rail gun. You get used to that after a bit of practice but combined with the crosshair being off it was just annoying.

Anyway Twin Dragon is next, hope that one's good too.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 19 March 2018 - 12:38 PM

5

User is offline   axl 

  • 120

#530

View PostZaxx, on 19 March 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Anyway Twin Dragon is next, hope that one's good too.


Yes, it's good too ! It has some frustrating levels like "Level of Despair" and "Toxic Waste", but the overall quality is very good. Have fun !
1

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#531

The big issue with City of Despair is that because of a rendering quirk, mines are invisible until triggered, and while the base game use them sparsely (of the top of my head the only one I can think of is Unfriendly Skies) City of Despair ends up using them a lot!

Personally I really like the Crazy Train and Fishing Village levels, really makes up for some of the lesser levels that precede them.
0

User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here
  • 750

#532

I admit that I didn't hold SW and Blood in high esteem until a couple of years ago, putting them aside as pure clones of Duke3D, and inferior at that. But they are more, have their own setting, atmosphere and design approach.

I even once tried to give my boxed copy of Blood away for free like two decades ago. Boy, am I glad the guy I wanted to gift it to didn't want to keep it. The game is awesome with a very dark atmosphere, and Lo Wang's adventures are very enjoyable, too. They went the opposite direction with Wang than with Duke, an older guy who thinks he is a chick magnet while he is not.

I hope that the "lost" third expansion eventually gets completed since the game would definitely deserve (even) more attention, even though it already got some after Redux and the two great Devolver reboot titles.
1

User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#533

While Shadow Warrior is in a better position than say ROTT or Redneck Rampage, the available source ports are still lacking in one way or another. I hope we have a definitive source port by the time Deadly Kiss is released.
0

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 177

#534

View PostPhredreeke, on 19 March 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

The big issue with City of Despair is that because of a rendering quirk, mines are invisible until triggered, and while the base game use them sparsely (of the top of my head the only one I can think of is Unfriendly Skies) City of Despair ends up using them a lot!

Wait... those weren't supposed to be invisible? :D Meanwhile here I was trying to figure out how to make them visible, I even tried using the goggles. :D I got through it but I sure as hell did a fair share of save scumming.

Anyway if I remember correctly the second level of Enter the Wang already has a few mines here and there, they are just not really in your way. On No Pain No Gain difficulty I managed to die because of one though. :D
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User is online   Phredreeke 

  • 96

#535

Yes, here's the game running in classic mode on SWP.

https://i.imgur.com/sqVvO3Q.png
0

User is offline   enderandrew 

  • 8

#536

View PostPhredreeke, on 19 March 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

While Shadow Warrior is in a better position than say ROTT or Redneck Rampage, the available source ports are still lacking in one way or another. I hope we have a definitive source port by the time Deadly Kiss is released.

Someone modified an old version of EDuke32 to work with Redneck Rampage and their source code is out there. I imagine it would be possible to try and identify what revision of EDuke32 they used as a starting point, run a diff of the two code bases and try to merge the changes back into the latest trunk of EDuke32.

https://github.com/ttyborg/erampage
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User is online   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy
  • 4,598

#537

ERampage is not good.

LeoTCK - EDIT: Jimmy, Blow it out your ass!
http://duke3dmaps.tumblr.com/
0

User is offline   enderandrew 

  • 8

#538

View PostLunick, on 19 March 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

ERampage is not good.

It isn't great, but it provides functional support for the game as a starting point. I do believe it works well enough to beat the games. Merging the changes with current trunk adds in all the improvements EDuke32 has had in the past 8 years or so as well since the fork was first created.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,705

#539

I liked Duke3d & Blood the most, but I also enjoyed Redneck Rampage & Heretic. (I always thought Hexen was boring though.)

Shadow Warrior was okay in my book, but I thought it was too much like duke3d at the time. So it was kind of a back-burner game for me. Something to play around in when I was done with everything else.

Now I have more time on my hands and notice the glaring differences that make SW a good game. The two main expansions are pretty good too.
1

User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 5,904

  #540

View Postenderandrew, on 19 March 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

It isn't great, but it provides functional support for the game as a starting point. I do believe it works well enough to beat the games. Merging the changes with current trunk adds in all the improvements EDuke32 has had in the past 8 years or so as well since the fork was first created.

ERampage is garbage. It's half sloppy hack of the source code, half CON mod that doesn't get things right. The weapons and inventory are still basically Duke.

If you like it, I would recommend ZBlood.
0

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