[MusicallyInspired]

Zaxx, on 12 December 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

Thank Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia...i/Stephan_Weyte
What a spoiler!

I don't usually peruse game news and info for games I haven't played on Wikipedia which usually comprises of a fairly comprehensive list of every single thing about a game (including the entire plot, which I would qualify as spoilers). I had just watched Gggmanlive's final review of Dusk and he said there was a character that was a cameo that he didn't want to spoil. I was looking forward to discovering it. So again, thanks.

[OpenMaw]

MetHy, on 12 December 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

The entire documentary is made through the eyes of HL fans, to show how much influencial HL was, so what do you expect. Their FPS timeline in the video goes from Wolf3D, to Doom, to Quake, to HL. In reality HL owes as much to Duke as it does to Quake, it owes Quake the engine, but it owes Duke the realism, the interactivity, and the maps directly following each others (which Blood also had).

All of this is ommitted, not mentionned, because the documentary follows the "revolutionnary and influencial HL" point of view. It's not a "FPS history" documentary, nor is it made to tell what inspired HL or to make it look weak.
Anyway, anyone should take whatever is said with a grain of salt and a little perspective. I still thought it was a cool doc for what it's worth.

Uh, I get all that. But Blood isn't the poster child for "generic Doom clones." There were DOZENS of options. Operation Body Count? Tek War? Cooridor 7? Blood is not the game they are looking for in that description.

And I just any documentary on it's accuracy. It's not a documentary if it pushes an agenda. That's propaganda or a hit piece or just entertainment at that point. NoClips coverage of other property had been flawless. This was a chink in the armor.

Zaxx, on 12 December 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

Oh wow, Stephan Weyte is in DUSK!

That's cool. But I have to echo MusicallyInspired's sentiment. I was looking forward to that surprise. I thought gggmanlives might have meant Jon St John since in a recent video he had been discussing his voice acting talents.

[MetHy]

Commando Nukem, on 12 December 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

And I just any documentary on it's accuracy. It's not a documentary if it pushes an agenda. That's propaganda or a hit piece or just entertainment at that point. NoClips coverage of other property had been flawless. This was a chink in the armor.

That's not to say their Blood example wasn't a faux-pas, but most news and documentary involve opinion to some degree whether the person making it intends it or not, they always have to choose an angle, it's inevitable. The documentary tears Valve a new asshole for their post Episode 2 behaviour for instance, with no different point of view given (although that's partly Valve's fault for not wanting to participate in the doc).

[axl]

Commando Nukem, on 12 December 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

Uh, I get all that. But Blood isn't the poster child for "generic Doom clones." There were DOZENS of options. Operation Body Count? Tek War? Cooridor 7? Blood is not the game they are looking for in that description.

I agree. Blood is one of the worst examples one could give of a generic Doom clone.

However, as much as we love and adore Blood, one can't argue with the fact that it was a bit of a Duke clone (as was Shadow Warrior).

Omitting Duke Nukem 3D in a (although very brief) history of the FPS, that is, in my opinion, the big mistake. I firmly belief that it should go like this: Wolf3D - Doom - Duke Nukem 3D - Quake - Half-Life.

Duke Nukem 3D brought us : interactivity, realistic level design, level variety, the first FPS character that spoke, destructible environments, ... all revolutionary in 1996.

[High Treason]

And then Quake took it away again, we still have yet to recover. It looks a lot like that one chart people use when arguing about religion;

The black bit is Quake. Sure it gave us polygons, but it took away everything else.

[Emmanuelexe]

The situation about the rights of BLOOD and the port of Night Dive Studios:
https://www.polygon....arner-nightdive

I was right, Atari can make only a port and stuff based only on the old game but can't make new content (new stuff like new official expansion or game depends of Warner Bros Games).
Like Heretic/Hexen with Activision/Zenimax, Bethesda can sell the old games but can't make new stuff, only Raven/Activision can (rip :/

[VGA]

High Treason, on 12 December 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

Absolutely not, I shall not have Java on my machine. Perhaps when the software is ported to a real language I might be more willing to give it my time. We've been happy enough with stupid DOSBox for now, though the eventual goal is to find a way of tunneling IPX from real DOS.
- I do actually approve of BloodGDX existing and think it's great that it does, aside from rumors I heard about weapon nerfing from later versions of the game creeping in, it's a good thing that someone managed to get the game to run on a modern OS in any capacity, but Java... no thanks.

You can find a thread in the BloodGDX section that has a simple guide and download for a portable Java package, so you don't have to install anything on your system. You just have a folder and drop the Java redistributables in there, the latest BloodGDX version and the needed Blood files.

[Aristotle Gumball]

The Java aversion is getting fucking ridiculous. It's been brought up a million times here. Way to take a stand on something so useless.

[Jimmy]

And now you see why Atari won't release the source code.

[High Treason]

It's not strictly Java aversion, I don't install anything on the workstation that I don't need, especially if it needs an installer and runs services like Java does. The next system that could run it probably isn't going to offer much if any advantage over running the game natively on the Pentium II. In short, the port isn't made for people like me, so I'm the wrong person to test it.

[Aristotle Gumball]

High Treason, on 12 December 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

It's not strictly Java aversion, I don't install anything on the workstation that I don't need, especially if it needs an installer and runs services like Java does. The next system that could run it probably isn't going to offer much if any advantage over running the game natively on the Pentium II. In short, the port isn't made for people like me, so I'm the wrong person to test it.

I guess you missed this post?

"You can find a thread in the BloodGDX section that has a simple guide and download for a portable Java package, so you don't have to install anything on your system. You just have a folder and drop the Java redistributables in there, the latest BloodGDX version and the needed Blood files."

[Zaxx]

Manhs, on 12 December 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

The situation about the rights of BLOOD and the port of Night Dive Studios:
https://www.polygon....arner-nightdive

I was right, Atari can make only a port and stuff based only on the old game but can't make new content (new stuff like new official expansion or game depends of Warner Bros Games).
Like Heretic/Hexen with Activision/Zenimax, Bethesda can sell the old games but can't make new stuff, only Raven/Activision can (rip :/

Even better regarding the Activision - Zenimax situation: Bethesda can't sell Wolfenstein 2009 because for that game Activision has the publishing rights.

Anyway this is good and bad news at the same time I guess. The good news is that Atari and Nightdive found a way to remaster the game (though I'm very curious how are they going to sell it because guess calling it Blood Remastered and selling it separately would mean that it's a separate product - update for the existing digital releases maybe?), the bad news is that the franchise itself is still not out of the gutter. So remaster? Yes. Any kind of new content that would renew interest for the game? No.

[High Treason]

thricecursed, on 12 December 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

I guess you missed this post?

"You can find a thread in the BloodGDX section that has a simple guide and download for a portable Java package, so you don't have to install anything on your system. You just have a folder and drop the Java redistributables in there, the latest BloodGDX version and the needed Blood files."

No, I guess you missed mine, I don't install anything on the workstation that I don't need. The Pentium II is at the same desk, or the one opposite depending on what's going on at the time, so I could just start that up and run the game on there instead without having to faff around with ports I don't need. The other advantage here is that I can still play the game when the workstation is busy, I can also record or stream the game this way when it isn't, should I choose to. The Pentium II also gives me access to a decent wavetable instead of the stupid Microsoft Synthesizer or some ugly SoundFont nonsense.
Otherwise, if I want to use ports, the next newest system after the workstation is a Presler, but that's hooked up to a crappy LCD screen as it only really does music now and I don't game on crappy LCD screens, especially ones that have no idea how to display 4:3/5:4 images properly, and given the Java requirement it probably won't go much faster than the Pentium II anyway. It would be way less comfortable to play though, given the keyboard and mouse are wedged up against the front of the sampler due to space constraints which aren't friendly to playing games on it, plus I'd again have no way to record it without moving the whole system and that isn't something I like doing, it's heavy. Everything outside of that can run the game on bare metal and can run v1.0, which is what I'm used to.

Edit: It might be worth my time to point out that the Blood 2 thing, which is how this started, was done using the K6 and not a modern system. Can't speak for the other guy running it, he has some weird Linux setup that I can't fathom and I can assure you, would have no interest in running anything in Java. Therefore the port isn't for me, I have this hardware here, I may as well use it. Similarly I can't remember the last time I used EDuke32 to actually play Duke Nukem 3D, the last outing was probably dragging a K5 through v1.3D or getting the K6 to do Nuclear Winter. My interest would lie more in an improved Mapedit, of which there have been attempts.

[Aristotle Gumball]

I don't care about the weird relationship you've got going on with your workstation, I'm just tired of the "waaah Java waaah" posts, of which you've made several. e.g. "Perhaps when the software is ported to a real language I might be more willing to give it my time. " - It's so silly and pedantic and just doesn't make a lick of sense given what others have pointed out. And yes, I know about the various flaws of Java as a programming language, but that's irrelevant in this case. The port works fine and a lot of work has gone into it, I guess I respect that more than my meaningless preferences.

[High Treason]

I'd written a paragraph but then realized it was probably a waste of my time, so I'll keep it short; Stop being so insufferable, this is a workstation, not a gaming system. More importantly it is my workstation and I shall or shall not do whatever I wish with it, you do not have to like it any more than I do not have to like Java.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Yes, you must protect your workstation's virginity at all costs. I understand now.

[Master O]

Manhs, on 12 December 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

The situation about the rights of BLOOD and the port of Night Dive Studios:
https://www.polygon....arner-nightdive

I was right, Atari can make only a port and stuff based only on the old game but can't make new content (new stuff like new official expansion or game depends of Warner Bros Games).
Like Heretic/Hexen with Activision/Zenimax, Bethesda can sell the old games but can't make new stuff, only Raven/Activision can (rip :/

That explains why WB is charging an enormous amount of money for the source code and IP rights in general. WB holds all the leverage on any new material, in which Blood's source code would obviously play a major part. Now that this remaster is coming out, WB is gonna hold onto the IP rights even more tightly to prevent anyone else from trying to acquire it.

Predictably, there will be lots of hand wringing about the source code and no one will get off their asses and at least try to raise the money to get the rights away from WB.

[Hendricks266]

Master O, on 13 December 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

That explains why WB is charging an enormous amount of money for the source code

"charging money for source code" is a ridiculous, irrelevant concept. Do you understand what I mean?

[OpenMaw]

It's not the source code, it's the rights for the IP.

"Someone with some money should just step up and buy it"

Fuck, I know. Let's call the president.

I bet Trump plays Blood.

I'm gonna tweet him about it. Waitaminute.

[Jimmy]

I've long suspected that neither side is remotely interested in selling rights to anyone. You all think in terms of logic or capitalism, etc etc. Let me tell you, these are corporations. They think like corporatists. Blood is not for sale... Unless you want to play it.

[----]

About the Java-stuff:
I wouldn't like to install the whole Java package just for one game. Fortunately NightFright made a nice package where everything is in one folder and you only have to unpack the whole package into your Blood directory.

Unfortunately for me Windows Defender marked the file as (false) positive and now Windows 10 only says it cannot run that file (even if I disable Defender). :/
So I wait for the version of Atari.

[MusicallyInspired]

fuegerstef, on 13 December 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

About the Java-stuff:
I wouldn't like to install the whole Java package just for one game. Fortunately NightFright made a nice package where everything is in one folder and you only have to unpack the whole package into your Blood directory.

Yeah. This is also actually what the current official Minecraft installer does. You don't install the Java package at all. It's portable. It's just extracted to a folder. It's part of the game's files. Nothing more. It doesn't change environment variables and it doesn't install itself anywhere else on your hard drive or in your operating system. No other program sees it or knows it's there unless you point it to its location.

[Ninety-Six]

axl, on 12 December 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

However, as much as we love and adore Blood, one can't argue with the fact that it was a bit of a Duke clone (as was Shadow Warrior).

Not that being a clone is an inherently bad thing, of course. Duke itself would qualify as a Doom clone. But like all good game clones, it adds to and refines what came before, raising the bar.

And Blood was that to Duke.



Skipping Duke 3D in terms of important milestones in the evolution of the FPS is a fairly large (and sadly common) sin, I agree. On the one hand, I sort of understand why: On the surface, Duke 3D (or indeed, any of the Build games that were direct sendups) didn't appear to be anything more than Doom with one-liners and boobs.

That being said, if you're going to talk about landmark shooters, you really shouldn't be looking at just the surface.

[High Treason]

thricecursed, on 12 December 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

Yes, you must protect your workstation's virginity at all costs. I understand now.

Or could it be that one one side, we have a machine which spends most of its time at full load, doing other things, with a precarious configuration I'd rather not break and, directly next to it, on the other side is a machine which can run the game better, plus many more, on the bare metal already which isn't generally at full load doing other things? I would no more install games on the workstation than I would install my video editing tools on the Pentium II, they are completely different systems with completely different roles and if you cannot comprehend this simple concept, then I am done discussing this matter.

I might add that you're setting yourself up for a really low blow with that comment, but I shan't take things to that level as I've no reason to, given you already lost your own argument before it even began.



Do I support the efforts on the port? Sure, it's great that somebody tried in some capacity. Do I want to use it? Not really. Is it of any use to me? No. Can I already run the game better without it? Yes. Would I be able to test it as I did Blood 2? Absolutely not.


-----------------


As for this remaster. Oh. That's all I have to say, here's looking forward to all the braindead retards and squeakers the community will have to put up with as a result.

[Emmanuelexe]

I have played BLOOD and his official expansions on 1life per map to be sure to finish it well as a fan, redid it sometimes. Finished 95% of his fan expansions in the same way and all the fans maps i could have find in the packs of the website of the expansions.
So seeing new stuff even a remastered (or GDX) is always a good thing even to try new things and options than staying forever on dosbox, i did it so much.

Usually, it's like for a lot of old games, people want look purist because they didn't have really played the games they are talking about
People do what they want yeah, no one care about a guy who want to block stuff at this point for a dead game....so many expansions were stopped (except maybe one (bloodlines?) :/
I just hope more stuff can happen with good sales but i'm not gonna stay forever on dosbox with the ton of hours i spent on it, the control and framerate are just too horrible.
If people want to play it REALLY like purist and original stuff, they have to buy an old computer with Windows 98 on it and run BLOOD. (Framerate and control are better than DOSbox on it)

[Aristotle Gumball]

High Treason, on 13 December 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:

Or could it be that one one side, we have a machine which spends most of its time at full load

Shit, I knew it was a sex thing. It's OK man, we all have our needs.

[Zaxx]

MusicallyInspired, on 12 December 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

I don't usually peruse game news and info for games I haven't played on Wikipedia which usually comprises of a fairly comprehensive list of every single thing about a game (including the entire plot, which I would qualify as spoilers). I had just watched Gggmanlive's final review of Dusk and he said there was a character that was a cameo that he didn't want to spoil. I was looking forward to discovering it. So again, thanks.

Okay but I did not spoil which character he's playing (I don't even know) and you can hear him in the launch trailer too:

So I just have to ask: what is there to spoil if it's all over the marketing material and he's already credited everywhere? My guess: he is the final boss because what the fuck else could he be in an FPS that has a story where "paper thin" is an exaggeration.

[MusicallyInspired]

What, the laugh? I wouldn't have even known that was him. I guess I don't play Blood enough.

[Zaxx]

Yep, he is the guy laughing at the end.

[Tekedon]

Now that I know it's him I can notice it is the same "laughing pattern/style".