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Ion Fury  "formerly Ion Maiden, launching August 15!"

User is offline   cybdmn 

#917

View PostMalgon, on 07 March 2018 - 04:04 AM, said:

Anyone having the game just dumping back to the desktop with no error at all? It's happened a few times and just twice in ten minutes of playing tonight, so I thought I'd post about it in case it was a known or common issue. It seems to occur when I'm just running around a level while it's been cleared of all the enemies.


I had this too, until i realized that my company laptop have just an intel graphics chipset. Then i started the game in software mode and everything was okay.

This post has been edited by cybdmn: 07 March 2018 - 04:34 AM

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User is offline   Malgon 

#918

Thanks oasiz, I figured it might have been something that was known about.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#919

Played a bit so far, very nice indeed!

I hope that the full version will have a secret level paying homage to Rise of the Triad and/or Blake Stone, kind of like Doom II did with the secret Wolf3D levels. A Rise of the Triad themed level could have those large open spaces featured here.

Then again, homages to other Build engine games could also be nice too.

This post has been edited by MrFlibble: 07 March 2018 - 04:58 AM

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User is offline   KareBear 

#920

Bought and played through.I enjoyed it a lot the enemies remind me of the Ad Mech Skitarii from 40k and the bowling bombs were really satisfying to use.
1

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#921

I love Shelly's lines and personality. Honestly it's exactly what I expected. Actually, I was expecting her tone to be a little dryer than it is. I don't know why. But her lines are delivered with more life and energy than I would have thought (for some reason) and it's fantastic. Like Forge, I just want more of them. But again, maybe that's just due to the fact that I'm spending so much time exploring an empty map for secrets after I've killed everybody (this probably also lends itself to the repetitive music issue some people have). Perhaps when you discover a new secret area it should spawn more bad guys somewhere else? Just to keep the action going and make it seem like there are more enemies than there are?

Also, Shelly's design is bothering me less and less.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 07 March 2018 - 06:14 AM

3

User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#922

View PostTerminX, on 06 March 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

It fixes a bunch of stuff. The biggest user facing change is that the player input is now no longer locked to whole units as far as the player's resulting .ang and .horiz are concerned. This means that the player's view angle can be at values in between the engine's traditional .ang and .horiz units. It's way smoother!

You just applied this to the latest EDuke32 snapshot as well, right? I can tell because my mouse sensitivity suddenly changed.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 07 March 2018 - 08:00 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#923

Feels more precise too... time for some low sens Duke 3D! :) Btw. what does the filter input setting do exactly? As far as I can tell it's not mouse acceleration.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 March 2018 - 08:15 AM

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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#924

Well, I have the feeling that mouse sensitivity needs to be reviewed now. I am at max (16.0) and still don't get the same sensitivity I used to have before the update. At least that's what it seems to me now (don't kill me for slightly being OT here, but I guess it's also relevant for Ion Maiden).
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#925

View PostNightFright, on 07 March 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Well, I have the feeling that mouse sensitivity needs to be reviewed now. I am at max (16.0) and still don't get the same sensitivity I used to have before the update. At least that's what it seems to me now (don't kill me for slightly being OT here, but I guess it's also relevant for Ion Maiden).

That sounds a bit weird. I set it to 1.73 and that's where I get the 15-18 cm / 360 I usually play FPS with. That's with my mouse set to 1600 dpi.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#926

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 07 March 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

I love Shelly's lines and personality. Honestly it's exactly what I expected. Actually, I was expecting her tone to be a little dryer than it is. I don't know why. But her lines are delivered with more life and energy than I would have thought (for some reason) and it's fantastic.


If I had to wager it's the context of her character at work. She was sandled with all that PTSD stuff in Bombshell which made her character come off as grim and angry. All the monologues during the loading screens seemed very dry and somber. Brooding, brooding, brooding.

This Bombshell definitely likes the cheese on her pizza.

View PostMicky C, on 07 March 2018 - 02:22 AM, said:

I'm not even sure how you'd give her per personality without giving her a lot more lines + cutscenes, which in turn would detract from the gameplay.


Doom 2016 gave us plenty of examples of how to give a character personality without having the protagonist talk.

"I assure you, everything we did was for the betterment of human kind" *glances down at a corpse and furiously cracks his knuckles*

A character's personality, their PERSONA are handle by so much more than just talking. Duke's roster of weapons (the mighty boot in particular) and items (the steroids) chime in on the personality. Who they are fighting against and what the motivation is. I would say the only major weak point so far are the enemies at play, with the exception of the robo-spider head. We need more of Haskel's mad science-y stuff at work.
4

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#927

I never actually played Bombshell yet so I wasn't actually comparing her lines from that to this game. But if it is drier and more brooding than in Ion Maiden as you say, I gotta say I prefer Ion Maiden.
2

User is offline   Bloodshot 

#928

Are there plans to have coop eventually?
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#929

On the subject of one-liners and personality:
From my personal observations, recapturing the lightning-in-a-bottle that were the one-liners of Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior in a new game, whether it has classic or modern gameplay, is a task I consider very hard to achieve, and requires not only a good sense of tact and comedy, but also good skills in the writing department.

What makes a memorable, likeable, one-liner spouting character in a video game that has minimal character interactions or story?

On one hand, they need to radiate some sort of unique personality so that the character remains in people's minds for long after they finish the game. On the other, the lines need to mesh well with the overall setting and the gameplay, so that they do not stand out in an overtly negative way or get annoying over time. Another important condition that needs to be fulfilled, at least according to my own observations, is that the lines the characters say need to be timeless and generic enough so that they are applicable in various different scenarios, but also fit the personality of each individual character. This means that memes and dated references to cultural phenomena that are likely to become disliked within the next years or even months are usually a very bad choice for one-liners. However, references to timeless classics in pop culture, such as movies like the Evil Dead series, or even other video games can be acceptable, given that they are subtle enough and not cringeworthy.

There's actually a very good example of this in Ion Maiden that I'd like to point out. Upon killing an enemy, on rare occasions Shelly will state "Laputan Machine", referencing Gunther Hermann's killphrase from Deus Ex. It's not an incredibly obvious reference, since it requires someone to have played through most of Deus Ex to know where it comes from, but it also is very applicable to the situation in-game itself, since the enemies are mechanically augmented humans, and the phrase itself is basically insulting them as failed machinery. If you intend on doing references in more common one-liners, this is the way to go.

Other lines like "Hail to the king, baby" or "I stick a firecracker in your ass, haha!" are appropriate in any setting, and fit Duke and Lo Wang perfectly. And of course, the delivery of these lines is also essential. Lo Wang's stupid quips wouldn't be half as funny if it weren't for John Galt's unique voice and delivery. The same goes for Duke and Jon St. John, and doubly so, since we can observe in World Tour that some of the re-recorded lines don't have nearly the same effect they did in the original recordings.
Finally, it also helps if the lines are few and far between, i.e. that they are not triggered on every possible instance where they could occur. They also need to be varied enough so that the same line can't be triggered twice or three times in succession. This can be seen in the recently released PSX TC for Duke 3D even, where the "Hehehe, what a mess" line, while usually pretty funny, overstays its welcome quickly simply due to how often it is triggered. Or in the ROTT remake, where each time a new weapon is picked up, the character you play as spouts another tired line that you've like heard about 10 times before.

Few modern games have managed to find this sweet spot of enjoyable one-liners. Most either undershoot the target, and make the character rather boring and forgettable, or they overshoot and make them annoying as fuck.
Bubsy the Bobcat, for example, is a good role model for unique personality, but a very bad one for making a character likeable. One could even argue that the only reason Bubsy is memorable is due to how incredibly annoying he is.

Other bad examples can be found in Interceptor's previous games. As mentioned before, in the ROTT remake, the lines the characters spout are way too common and in some cases, extremely annoying, causing me to turn them off by the second level.
The absolute worst example here is Lorelei Ni by far ( for your own displeasure). Not only are her lines extremely cringeworthy and annoying (like when picking up the shrooms powerup, jesus christ, who thought that making her shout BAD TRIP multiple times in a row like an autist was a good idea?), but she also sounds like a sassy American prep girl instead of a Chinese special-ops agent. Literally every single decision in the design of this character was terrible, and the game would have been better off having the characters be mute rather than having them chatter constantly.

Since the ROTT remake got mostly positive reviews despite the fact, it was obvious that Shelly was also going to have really frequent and annoying lines in Bombshell. While not as bad, it suffered from many of the same problems, and this fact was often pointed out in reviews for the game.
As for Rad Rodgers, that I cannot fairly judge that since I never played it, but from the gameplay videos, I can tell it relies on a very high dose of self-referential humor.

This brings me to another point:
Don't do overtly self-referential humor. It's been so overdone in recent times to the point where every time a game tries to act clever by breaking the fourth wall, I almost want to groan. It's just lame, and more importantly, it destroys immersion. Breaking the fourth wall is not clever if you overdo it.

Let's move on to positive examples when it comes to one-liners in shooters:

The first one is the Postal series, whose Dude is the closest a more modern character has gotten to the likes of Duke and Lo Wang in terms of one-liners. The Dude has a large repertoire of consistently good lines to say upon performing common actions (such as blowing stuff up) that satirize American culture, but also don't get old over time. This also carries over into its recently released expansion "Paradise Lost", proving that it is still possible to do clever lines without coming over as lame or annoying.
In terms of personality, Serious Sam probably comes closest to Duke Nukem, and his lines have also been consistently good over all games he's appeared in. However, most lines in the Serious Sam games only occur as scripted events, so the comparison might not be as fitting as with the Postal games.

So how does Ion Maiden and Shelly fare?
In my opinion, especially compared to some of the worse examples I mentioned, Voidpoint did a good job with Shelly's lines. It's not as good as Postal, but definitely in the 95th percentile of these kinds of shooters.
The aforementioned "Laputan Machine" line is great, but the "Domo Arrigato Mr. Roboto" line for example is a bit too in-your-face and "eh" for my tastes.
Furthermore, there are only very few lines that really do get on your nerves, and most of them are generic enough not to become annoying or repetitive after a while. ("Dodge this" or "I never miss" for example, are hard to overdo)
Also, and I think this is also partly due to the engine, lines on killing enemies are themselves pretty rare, which is a big step up from Bombshell. And the delivery from the voice actress is also pretty good.

However, one downside I see at the moment is that her lines don't really entertain as much as Duke's or Lo Wang's, and are mostly pretty bland. At the end of the day, we need to keep in mind that one-liners are first and foremost supposed to entertain.
Otherwise, why even have them be there, if not to add to the enjoyment of the game?

Overall though, I vastly prefer bland one-liners to one-liners that get annoying and make you disable them altogether, hence why I value this more positively than ROTT or Bombshell.
I do hope we are going to see some more variety, and some expansion on her personality in the final game.

All in all, I'd say Voidpoint did do most of these points pretty well, resulting in a good end product.

(I will now go and reconsider my life decisions, and evaluate what brought me to the point of writing an essay on one-liners in FPS games on a random Duke 3D forum...)

This post has been edited by Doom64hunter: 07 March 2018 - 10:59 AM

9

User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#930

Well written, sir. I'd actually love to see someone like noclip or retroahoy do a retrospective documentary on video game... ah, personalities.
0

User is offline   MrFlibble 

#931

I just realised that the starting area is essentially built around what John Romero calls the "classic horseshoe" design. Was that an intentional nod to his design philosophy?
0

User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#932

Speaking of which: Has Romero played this already? :)
0

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#933

View PostDoom64hunter, on 07 March 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Upon killing an enemy, on rare occasions Shelly will state "Laputan Machine", referencing Gunther Hermann's killphrase from Deus Ex.

Yes, that was a really good touch. I like references that you don't get instantly but rather you start thinking about them: "Where did I hear that one before?" and then when you get it it's "Ooooh, they know that I know, they played that game too just like I did!" Stuff like that create a connection and that's why I like the secrets in the preview campaign too. When I found the Aliens secret I had to stop and think about it and even when I got it it was a bit hard to believe that it was that specific. The same thing with the Hellraiser reference, I was like "Is that... is that really the thing from Hellraiser 2 and 3?". :)

Anyway just to get back to the one-liners I think the game could take a bit more from Deus Ex or System Shock because of the cyberpunk theme just like Duke 3D and Blood took more than one reference from the same source. If you think about Deus Ex for example "What a rotten way to die!" seems like a must because even though it's a much more well known line from the game than "Laputan Machine" it just fits and creates the connection the same way "Laputan Machine" does. And really this one's just timeless, it will always be funny:

Another obvious one would be Blade Runner and there's even a very memorable line in that movie that would get a different meaning in Ion Maiden if it's changed slightly: "It's too bad she won't live... but then again, who does?" Now in the movie that has a philosophical meaning while it also hints that Deckard may be a replicant. An action game where you're killing everyone totally changes the context:

"It's too bad he won't live but then again who does?" B)

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 07 March 2018 - 01:09 PM

1

User is offline   MrFlibble 

#934

I just completed the first level and explored a bit the second one, it's a lot of fun!

One thing I noticed though, there are no air bubbles when swimming underwater? Also I don't think there are water splashes when you swim or walk move on the water surface.

I don't get the criticism of the music, a part of the first level's track heavily reminded me of a track from the PlayStation version of Duke3D, hardly a coincidence.
1

#935

I'm glad that the game is enjoying as much attention as it does.

At first I was afraid it would be overshadowed by the train wreck that is HDTF, and be lost to history due to a lack of marketing. But now that I've seen it being mentioned on so many various different communities, be it Facepunch, Reddit, 4chan or Doomworld, with hundreds of positive reviews on Steam and various Youtubers and Gaming News praising it, my worries can finally be put to rest.

Hell, you guys even managed to get a stickied thread on ZDoom simply because people were so eager to rip the assets from your game already :)
While maybe not desirable, it does speak very positively for the game.

What excites me most is that, with a steady source of income, there is now also a real incentive to make big changes to the eduke source port, meaning that a functional multiplayer is finally within reach.
1

User is offline   Ninjakitty 

#936

Major glitches found so far:
Under circumstances I have been unable to identify, some light switches just crash the game
(maybe had something to do with me switching to software renderer and back to opengl?)

Bowling bombs can go right through <90 degree corners (which can sometimes crash the game)
A good place to do this is the metro station with the acid pouring out of the vent

Some things to work on:
Most pushable objects hate being pushed diagonally and only like to be pushed on a global axis

When pulling objects, Shelly sometimes just decides to be all butter-fingered, while other times she seems to have a really firm grip

Maybe add a little bit of physics to swimming so that it doesn't feel so stiff

Maybe give the enemies more animations and some more mechanical sounds
1

User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#937

View PostMrFlibble, on 07 March 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

I just realised that the starting area is essentially built around what John Romero calls the "classic horseshoe" design. Was that an intentional nod to his design philosophy?


Heh. It's funny you mention that. I actually never knew about this when designing the beginning area.
5

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#938

View PostDoom64hunter, on 07 March 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

What excites me most is that, with a steady source of income,......

and future commercial addons (instead of Caribbean, life's a beach, it'll be Shelly Sells Sea Shells by the Sea Shore)
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User is offline   NNC 

#939

View PostNightFright, on 07 March 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

Speaking of which: Has Romero played this already? :)


Just for curiousity. Did Romero ever make a map for any Build engine games?

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 08 March 2018 - 03:19 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#940

View PostNancsi, on 08 March 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

Just for curiousity. Did Romero ever make a map for any Build engine games?

Nope but I don't think that's much of a shame. Romero shines when it comes to abstract level design and Build is not really about that.

Btw. his new Doom levels he released 1 or 2 years ago are great. :)
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#941

View PostZaxx, on 08 March 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

Nope but I don't think that's much of a shame. Romero shines when it comes to abstract level design and Build is not really about that.

Would be interesting if he did some none the less.

Back to the Preview Campaign, so far I have found myself using the revolver almost exclusively, and had very little use for the shotgun. It seems to be only effective at very close range, while the design of the first level is such that ranged weapons are more effective. In fact, the enemies most often appear at some distance, you shoot at them with the revolver, "I never miss", done. By comparison, the levels in Duke Nukem 3D often have the monsters placed such that using the shotgun becomes a strategically sound if not imperative decision. I understand that bowling bombs are Shelly's trademark weapons, and they do work well at medium range in situations where Duke would use the shotgun, but the enemies take so few hits with the revolver that I found the bombs to be quite optional. Well, maybe it's just the first playthrough (I remember that when I played Shadow Warrior for the first times I over-used Uzis and almost never used the riot gun, even though actually it's very effective), medium difficulty and with the auto-aim on, but so far the revolver seems very powerful to me.

Concerning the enemies I'm okay with their visual design, but I believe that they could use more personality so to speak. Consider the enemies in Rise of the Triad. The Low Guard will sometimes play dead and ambush you, the Lightning Guard steals weapons and begs for mercy, Strike Team folks dodge your projectiles (I guess this was pretty hard to digitise BTW) etc. Of course, the grunts in Ion Maiden may be more like the palette swapped ninjas in SW (shoot a variety of stuff, duck, crawl, shoot some more), but with the revolver's efficiency and accuracy they often become nothing more than distant targets in a shooting range.

This post has been edited by MrFlibble: 08 March 2018 - 04:31 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#942

Interesting. I felt the opposite. In fact, I was surprised at the range of the shotgun. Not that the Loverboy was useless, I definitely used it. Also, the ammo was just sparse enough to have to keep switching between them. That's what I found, anyway.
0

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#943

View PostMrFlibble, on 08 March 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

medium difficulty and with the auto-aim on, but so far the revolver seems very powerful to me.

Easy: turn off autoaim and play on hard. :) On a higher difficulty it's much easier to lose a chunk of health because you have multiple enemies shooting at you while you're wasting your time with picking them off with the revolver.

I like the shotgun. It has a pretty good range which reminds me a bit of the shotgun in Brutal Doom, IM's version is just more balanced because BD's shotgun is basically a sniper rifle. B) It's spread is not overblown and headshots are worth it so you actually have to aim with it too even from closer range and that's how I like a PC FPS. Usually in console shooters the shotgun's spread is so big that's it's the "don't aim, everything will die anyway" weapon.

The thing is however that we can't really talk about weapon balance since alternate firing modes are missing from the demo. It was silly to ship the preview campaign without those, we just can't judge the weapon balance now.
1

User is offline   NNC 

#944

View PostZaxx, on 08 March 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

Nope but I don't think that's much of a shame. Romero shines when it comes to abstract level design and Build is not really about that.

Btw. his new Doom levels he released 1 or 2 years ago are great. :)


I'm pretty sure maps like O of destruction or even Tech Gone Bad would look great in Build as well.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#945

View PostZaxx, on 08 March 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

Nope but I don't think that's much of a shame. Romero shines when it comes to abstract level design and Build is not really about that.

I would say it's more about Doom texture set.
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User is offline   neznam 

#946

Eh... It looks okay, but it's certainly an "imposter" itself. A higher end one.

It's just "off". Something about the smoothness of the the animation, especially in the explosions and the smg, the way things move, the voice acting.. I know it can't get much better than this, it still looks extremely fun but it's superficially incapable of emulating the feel of the old titles.
0

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