[oasiz]

Sledgehammer, on 16 August 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

As in, non-modified eduke32.exe specifically for IF? Either way, I see. And I was curious about others things just well of course. Figured if menu was screwed a bit that wouldn't be the only problem. Still, I hope we'll get fully stable IF dedicated EDuke32 build (or just 32-bit support outside of digital stores, because personally I could be careless about Windows/anti-virus warnings about the modified .exe for IF), unless it's way too challenging (in a sense that it's not worth it) to integrate full support for IF in regular EDuke32 builds.

Regular builds wont have support for a while since there are manual overrides done on source level for things that we can't do in a modular fashion from CON.
We used eduke32 binaries a lot when testing stuff internally as well between revisions.

It's up to the guys if they want to build a standalone binary alongside regular duke binary (would make sense in a way since other "from scratch" projects could benefit from this)

[Zaxx]

Sledgehammer, on 16 August 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

Wanna know?

Well I already gave up on the idea to find everything by myself so sure, a hint would be cool. Is there a visual cue somewhere? Do I have to shoot something? If you tell me that I'll have to jump it I'll go mad.

Edit: Shit, I think I found something related... you really have to jump all this? Good lord...

Edit 2: Well, that took a bit of save scumming,omg. At least that one was worth it but why so much platforming? I'll go cry in a corner now, the jumping physics are GARBAGE in Build for shit like this.

[oasiz]

Radar, on 16 August 2019 - 07:44 AM, said:

IMO EDuke32's goal, however many years into the future this may be, should be to be able to launch all Build engine games from a single launcher, just like how GZDoom can run every Doom engine game.

It's just not really doable as easily.
Everybody took the basis of build and made it their own. There is just way too much overlap and to do this properly you'd have to do a lot of reworking to get things abstracted to a point where each game can call a common safe method to handle a certain task rather than using it's own hacks
Doom engine was still a bit simpler and people built on top of DOOM but with build only very few built on top of duke3d itself.

That's why it's called the "build engine" and not "duke nukem engine" in proper text.

Where Doom games are a dialect, build games might all still share the same alphabet but the language is completely different.

[Radar]

MIND = BLOWN

[Sledgehammer]

oasiz, on 16 August 2019 - 08:05 AM, said:

It's up to the guys if they want to build a standalone binary alongside regular duke binary (would make sense in a way since other "from scratch" projects could benefit from this)

Well, I'd like to get at least 32-bit support for a moment, so I could play the game on my laptop with 32-bit system when I'd be away.

[oasiz]

Sledgehammer, on 16 August 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

Well, I'd like to get at least 32-bit support for a moment, so I could play the game on laptop when I'd be away.

Biggest reasoning (albeit a bit of an excuse) is that if your can't do 64bit then you're likely too low spec to really play this.
Any system since 2006 should safely fit this category so that's why we really haven't put priority to this issue as much.

[oasiz]

Radar, on 16 August 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

MIND = BLOWN

Just start mapping for different games like powerslave / tekwar / shadow warrior / duke and you will quickly see that every game has their own way of handling tagging. SW literally hijacks a lot of stuff meant for internal values to be used as those additional tags
.. Oh and these tags are not just limited to some map arrays, a lot of game code literally modifies the map data on the fly to store stuff like velocities for sprites IN the damn map format, kinda cool but so damn brittle.
Build itself is kind of like a really nice framework to allow tons of customization, and customize the devs did.

[Sledgehammer]

oasiz, on 16 August 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

Biggest reasoning (albeit a bit of an excuse) is that if your can't do 64bit then you're likely too low spec to really play this.
Any system since 2006 should safely fit this category so that's why we really haven't put priority to this issue as much.

I don't want to upgrade my system because I have only 2GB of RAM, so it's a bit pointless to do, although I may install Linux on it anyway. Unless I decide to grab another RAM stick (the main reason why I don't want to bother), I'm not going to upgrade my system to 64-bit Windows and that won't happen any time soon. If it was something else, including hardware limitation you mentioned, I simply would not say anything in that regards.

Zaxx, on 16 August 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

At least that one was worth it but why so much platforming?

Come on, it's absolutely fine and was absolutely worth it, yep.

[PokeThePower]

Zaxx, on 16 August 2019 - 06:20 AM, said:

And that kind of leads me to my other issue with the secrets: a lot of times they are just not worth it.

I do think this is an area for expansion. I have zero problem with the secrets as they are from an LD standpoint, even the platformer level ones. I love that sometimes they leave me thinking "This MUST be bugged, there's just no way to get over there, but surely they wouldn't ship it that way, but maybe, but no, but damnit..." only to eventually find it. However the goods once there are pretty much an afterthought, it's just personal satisfaction. IF could reach across the old school (it's fun for the sake of it) folks to more modern expectations by doing some version of sticker book or Modern Warfare Intel collections.

I think the secrets design is a defining part of the game's uniqueness... so playing it up more in ways that draw folks like the RPS reviewer to feel rewarded for hunting them down could add a lot of value. Getting all the secrets in one zone unlocks the ice variant of the SMG like MW intel cheats, or just lets you see a stylized icon in a sticker book that recalls the "hook" of each secret (broom+vent), perhaps with some indication of "epic" secrets vs normal, blah blah blah.

[Zaxx]

Quote

Come on, it's absolutely fine and was absolutely worth it, yep.

It's good to have the third person camera for stuff like this I admit but man, I can't even describe properly how much I dislike platforming in an FPS game... except for Doom 2016 because there mantling helps you out a lot.

[oasiz]

We had some ideas for this too, different kind of secrets. won't really go in to details in case these are to be re-used later on but I do agree that there is a point when it comes to collectibles.
I guess in a sense the secret itself is currently more of the collectible itself but is not really presented as a "material posession thingy"

Let's see where things head but currently it's obvious that a lot of the secret hunting is to give a secret itself, powerups were one way to reward it more

In the end, time and resources kind of made us forget some ideas and some ended up being retrofitted to something else entirely.
We kind of ended up having a huge amount of secrets to the point where it became a joke and just never stopped. Making them is just quite plain fun.

[Phredreeke]

oasiz, on 16 August 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

Biggest reasoning (albeit a bit of an excuse) is that if your can't do 64bit then you're likely too low spec to really play this.
Any system since 2006 should safely fit this category so that's why we really haven't put priority to this issue as much.

Agree. I've tested it on my GPD Win (Atom x7-Z8750 based handheld) and while sections of the games are playable, it really struggles at other parts of the game. While it uses a low power SoC, it's not far off from Intel's fastest 32-bit CPUs in performance

[Aristotle Gumball]

I find the platforming really enjoyable actually, so it's a pretty subjective thing. Always enjoyed the jumping way more in a game like Blood than Quake where it always feels like you're sliding all over the place.

[Zaxx]

I'm a sucker for lore so doing stuff like getting a piece of intel for finding some secrets would be very welcome in my book. I'm the kind of guy who thinks that the "readme" part of IF is too short, I wanna know why there is permanent martial law.

[Jimmy]

I have an OCD quirk where I have to find every secret. (Which I have been accomplishing.) The jumping puzzles aren't terrible but I do feel like Shelly doesn't jump high enough or have enough hang time. The jump feels so modern to me, short and quick. It's a minor complaint I guess.

[t800]

Could somebody do favor for Mac users and compile new synthesis build of Eduke32? One from Dukeworld does not recognize Fury.grp. :-\

EDIT: Made it work, but had to provide Fury.def and Fury.grpinfo files too. After launch you get black screen, so you have to spam enter to get right into start of new game. After that menu works correctly but it has few graphical glitches such as wrong offset of Shelly picture in difficulty selection and main menu need to be scrolled to get to bottom of it.
Will keep you updated after first impressions.

[Jblade]

played it and beat it, fantastic job (though I hated the end fight)

in the middle of secret finding and I'm not sure if I've bugged out or something, but I'm in the ground floor of the big tower and I've looked everywhere but 2 secrets are missing. I've even cracked it open in mapster and looked for the sectors and sprites rigged to secrets but I've already found everything.

EDIT: n/m, not a bug!

[Zaxx]

BlitZ, on 16 August 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

I have an OCD quirk where I have to find every secret. (Which I have been accomplishing.) The jumping puzzles aren't terrible but I do feel like Shelly doesn't jump high enough or have enough hang time. The jump feels so modern to me, short and quick. It's a minor complaint I guess.

I think that's part of it, yeah. A huge part of why Blood has the best jumping mechanics from all the Build games is that jumping is very floaty there and since Build gives you a lot of air control you can correct your mistakes mid air.

That being said I absolutely adore how movement feels in IF: it's nice, fast and grounded, basically like Duke 3D but more polished and I guess how jumping behaves is part of that. It would be sad to see it go but I remember a Duke 3D mod I played (I think it was Duke Plus) that had a pretty cool mantling mechanic. Maybe that could help in the platforming at some parts? It just shouldn't be automatic like it is in Doom 2016 but work kind of like grabbing in the classic Prince of Persia games where you had to hold Shift for the character to grab a ledge.

[Shaq Fu]

SIGNATURE CHICKEN
Our chicken is marinated for at least 12 hours and bursting with bold Louisiana flavor.

[Echelon5]

I was hoping for more inventory items. You know, stuff you carry and get to use yourself. Duke 3D had the medkit, goggles, jetpack, steroids, holoduke, etc. They weren't ALWAYS useful, but it was nice to have the options, and gave the player more methods of expression. IF has the radar and medkits. The jump boots and suit felt more like Doom powerups, and I never really found a use for the jump boots.

[mwnn]

Generally not a fan of jumping puzzles in sprite based fps games - especially if it involves making numerous perilous jumps on "flat" wires and vents.
Plus you can't see your own feet.

Spoiler

On the whole the secrets in the first level are well thought out:
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

For the video I skipped the tricky jumping bit with noclip.
Nice Blade Runner reference, plus the extra guns and heavy armor really help on ultra viscera.

I mainly want the ammo carrying capacity raised up a bit - Duke can carry hundreds of bullets by comparison.
Am I the only one who feels the explosive pucks are pretty much redundant - already have the superior bowling bombs which track opponents.
I'd swap that out for something better. Doom has the BFG, plasma gun and rocket launcher. Duke3D has the RPG, Devastator, etc. Blood gets a bunch of crazy stuff.
Here we get an explosive puck which can be thrown about 3 feet

[oasiz]

I believe this should work against eduke32 and produce a fury.exe that should match the retail:

make APPNAME="'Ion Fury'" APPBASENAME="fury" STANDALONE=1 POLYMER=0 USE_LIBVPX=0 NETCODE=0 SIMPLE_MENU=1 obj=obj/im fury.exe

Someone who knows more from the team can correct this one.

[Master O]

oasiz, on 16 August 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

It's just not really doable as easily.
Everybody took the basis of build and made it their own. There is just way too much overlap and to do this properly you'd have to do a lot of reworking to get things abstracted to a point where each game can call a common safe method to handle a certain task rather than using it's own hacks
Doom engine was still a bit simpler and people built on top of DOOM but with build only very few built on top of duke3d itself.

That's why it's called the "build engine" and not "duke nukem engine" in proper text.

Where Doom games are a dialect, build games might all still share the same alphabet but the language is completely different.

Does that mean for VoidSW, it will also be similarly standalone from mainline Eduke32?

[t800]

Finished first episode. Nice. So far, very good impressions. Framerate seems stable even in hectic situations.
Odd, that developers decided not to officially support MacOS at launch date, because latest Eduke32 synthesis build for it, apart from few minor bugs seem to run rock solid. I hope I wont regret this, but I am going to try to beat whole game in it.
Anyways, regarding first episode. First strongest impressions were very vivid color palette and atmospheric DeusEx/Unreal styled soundtrack. Second impression - very fluid and responsive controls and gameplay mechanics and one of the best spriteworks (and voxelworks ;-) ) I have ever seen in FPS game.

[malvado]

Ah man when that drum n bass tune kicked in on that one level. So good! Really liking this game a lot

[LeoD]

I used to avoid this thread and I've downloaded+played the IM/IF preview no sooner than the day before release. I was not impressed. After a couple of hours with the 1.0 version, I'm happy to say: "They've nailed it!"
That's how a new Build game should be in any aspect. Definitely worth my bucks and I hope it sells enough to keep 'em going. Despite being a huge Polymer/HRP apologist, I don't miss anything while playing IF.
Now I only wish that BillyBoy was still around to user-map for this...

[EDIT:] eduke32-IF-win64-r8036-20190816.7z

[Jimmy]

Ion Fury subforum when?

[Hank]

BlitZ, on 16 August 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

Ion Fury subforum when?

What for?
I’ve got the game via 3DShits website. No mapping tools, what so ever.
Steam? Who knows, Maybe. Should I get it via Steam? Sure, I’ve got the cash. Will I? Fuck no!
Die 3DWhatever. I’ll buy you a great Grave Stone = Rest in peace, you, useless piece of shit.

Thank you TerminX with master 0.39/0.4. Your work helped me to overcome my dangerous/destructive Coke addiction, using your Mapster to distract from my addiction.
Live long and prosper, and your team. Ion Maiden/Fury, rocks. Hopefully you can make a living from your hard-earned work, now and in the future.

[Jimmy]

Dude it sounds like you relapsed on that post lmao

[Radar]

Cocaine's a helluva drug.