[Micky C]

gemeaux333, on 13 March 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

Perhaps I know the answer by advance, but what about multilanguage translation and dubbing ?

Because the game's strongest feature is its plot and dialogue

[Sanek]

gemeaux333, on 13 March 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

Perhaps I know the answer by advance, but what about multilanguage translation and dubbing ?

Oh come on, translation can be useful I guess, but the idea of dubbing is just ridiculous! Image classic Build games in any language other than english. It'll lost half of it's charm!

[TerminX]

Text translation will be in but no foreign language voiceovers.

[gemeaux333]

Dubbing can be great if its well handled, and only if !

I could have suggested a name for the french voice of bombshell, but look like it won't happen...

[VGA]

gemeaux333, on 14 March 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Dubbing can be great if its well handled, and only if !

I could have suggested a name for the french voice of bombshell, but look like it won't happen...

It's just a small studio, they don't want to pay several translators and voice actors for voiced translations!

[OpenMaw]

It's always down to that pesky thing... Resources.

[Danukem]

Commando Nukem, on 14 March 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

It's always down to that pesky thing... Resources.

Even big studios often do a poor job of getting equivalent voice actors for different languages, and players often prefer to hear it in the original language. Having translations for the menus and messages while leaving the audio intact makes sense, it's not just a budget thing. They could also add a subtitles option for the different languages if they wanted to.

[cybdmn]

Commando Nukem, on 14 March 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

It's always down to that pesky thing... Resources.

In this case, the resources are just one reason, but i think localized one-liners would make no sense. These one-liners just worked as they are. If you produce a game with a big story and many conversations from the protagonists, or much narration, a localization would make much more sense.

[gemeaux333]

There is another point I wanna make when it comes to translation/dubbing : except if you belong to the country of the game, you might hardly understand the jokes and/or references, for language bareer and cultural reasons...

There is another solution : like in the Shadow Warrior reboot, display subtitles for the lines/quotes and translate it !

[Perro Seco]

gemeaux333, on 14 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

There is another solution : like in the Shadow Warrior reboot, display subtitles for the lines/quotes and translate it!

Sorry but I think that is totally unnecessary. And I'm from Spain.

[Zaxx]

Perro Seco, on 14 March 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Sorry but I think that is totally unnecessary. And I'm from Spain.

Yeah, I agree. Instead make a joke dub where Jon St. John is playing a woman.

[3rdmillhouse]

Trooper Dan, on 14 March 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

Even big studios often do a poor job of getting equivalent voice actors for different languages, and players often prefer to hear it in the original language. Having translations for the menus and messages while leaving the audio intact makes sense, it's not just a budget thing. They could also add a subtitles option for the different languages if they wanted to.

Too true, I'm Brazilian and here people usually stay away from locally dubbed games unless they can't read or speak english, the dubbing is usually atrocious with the very notorious example of the latest Mortal Kombat game who was met was country-wide mockery from gamers.

[MrFlibble]

Got around to playing again, this time on hard difficulty. Indeed gameplay becomes much more fluid, and there's use for all weapons, although I found the shotgun to be much hit-and-miss (sometimes you score a hit in a single shot, but sometimes the same enemy doesn't go down after three when you reload the save game and try again; but that's in the version before the update, haven't tried the updated one yet). I haven't noticed the ammo to be scarce though, it seems quite plentiful.

Secrets are fun to looks for and find. Some jumping sections require quite a bit of savegame reloading though, it's all too easy to miscalculate your jump and fall off those steel beams. I haven't figured out if the secret area message could be set to appear at the centre of the screen instead of in the same place as pickup messages (a la certain Doom ports).

Do the enemies respawn on hard? If yes then it's done very nicely, without overwhelming the player.

[NightFright]

Zaxx, on 14 March 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yeah, I agree. Instead make a joke dub where Jon St. John is playing a woman.

Actually in World Tour, his performance sometimes was not far off from that.

[Zaxx]

MrFlibble, on 15 March 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

Got around to playing again, this time on hard difficulty. Indeed gameplay becomes much more fluid, and there's use for all weapons, although I found the shotgun to be much hit-and-miss (sometimes you score a hit in a single shot, but sometimes the same enemy doesn't go down after three when you reload the save game and try again; but that's in the version before the update, haven't tried the updated one yet). I haven't noticed the ammo to be scarce though, it seems quite plentiful.

I may be mistaken because I did not check if actually that's how it works but I got the feeling that the shotgun behaves in a way that is very similar to Unreal Tournament's Flak Cannon: the position of the pellets is a bit random every time you fire so you can score a "bullseye" where you kill the guy in one shot even without aiming for the head but it could also occur that even a basic enemy needs two shots to bite the dust because some of the pellets just did not hit him.

[Zaxx]

NightFright, on 15 March 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:

Actually in World Tour, his performance sometimes was not far off from that.

Guess I'm alone with that but I liked him in World Tour: yes, his performance was different, it had a less serious and more comical vibe to it but that has its charm too. I love some of the little things in there, from example the voice when Duke suffers fall damage. I don't think that it's worse than what we have in the original game, it's just different.

[MrFlibble]

I'm consistently getting a hall of mirrors effect when in places close to the ceiling (e.g. when standing on top of tall crate stacks) and looking upwards:
 capt0002.png (89.5K)
Number of downloads: 31

[Fox]

Good old Polymost. Hopefully we will have rewritten a good part of the GL code for the full version.

[MetHy]

gemeaux333, on 14 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

There is another point I wanna make when it comes to translation/dubbing : except if you belong to the country of the game, you might hardly understand the jokes and/or references, for language bareer and cultural reasons...

This is important, this is why the game should get a proper localization IMO.

If only the menus and other texts are translated, and not the lines and dialogue, reviewers (pro & users) will mention it as a bad point. I look at some pro video game reviews and any time an indie game doesn't have a full translation they complain.
Besides, the protagonists' lines are an important aspect of all iconic Build games, these days everyone should be able to understand them.

As for the "understanding the jokes/reference", this takes work. For instance, let's say there is a Terminator reference, a line straight out of the movie. It takes a bit of research to translate that line right, for instance I'd go check the French version of the movie to see how that line was originally translated to make sure I get it right. If you only give 2 days to the translator, he's not going to bother getting all of that right, he'll just translate literally and even outright skip problematic words or entire jokes, I see that all the time in movie subtitles.

The "if you only give 2 days" isn't a barb at 3DRealms btw, it's more of a general thing in the translation industry. Usually you get called, and you're told the job needed to be done 2 days before you even got called; hence quick work with poor quality....
That's not even the worse btw, you should see how Netflix handles its translations... they don't even care if you're a professional or not.

[Forge]

Had a chance to play until the basement lift / yellow lock.

The lag is greatly reduced, but not completely gone.

Think the worst of it was the kitchen in the office building & the hall right outside of it (when enemies were present).
Wasn't monitoring the fps, so I don't know the exact drop, but it was significant.

Running a 2gb 650ti at factory settings.

[Doom64hunter]

MetHy, on 15 March 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

This is important, this is why the game should get a proper localization IMO.

If only the menus and other texts are translated, and not the lines and dialogue, reviewers (pro & users) will mention it as a bad point. I look at some pro video game reviews and any time an indie game doesn't have a full translation they complain.
Besides, the protagonists' lines are an important aspect of all iconic Build games, these days everyone should be able to understand them.

As for the "understanding the jokes/reference", this takes work. For instance, let's say there is a Terminator reference, a line straight out of the movie. It takes a bit of research to translate that line right, for instance I'd go check the French version of the movie to see how that line was originally translated to make sure I get it right. If you only give 2 days to the translator, he's not going to bother getting all of that right, he'll just translate literally and even outright skip problematic words or entire jokes, I see that all the time in movie subtitles.

The "if you only give 2 days" isn't a barb at 3DRealms btw, it's more of a general thing in the translation industry. Usually you get called, and you're told the job needed to be done 2 days before you even got called; hence quick work with poor quality....
That's not even the worse btw, you should see how Netflix handles its translations... they don't even care if you're a professional or not.

I find myself agreeing with your points, yet I'd still advise against doing an extensive translation.
The reason is what you mention yourself -- doing proper localization costs time and resources, both of which Voidpoint are currently lacking.

Out of all the things that need to be finished for the release, like artwork, sound design and voice acting, maps, weapons and enemies, as well as engine and renderer improvements, do you really think Voidpoint should invest an extensive amount of time and money on localization in what is already a niche product for retro game enthusiasts? Fans of games which never really had any extensive translations themselves?
I think you vastly overestimate the potential negative impact.

[NightFright]

I think it's remarkable you were able to pull off these kinda maps with Polymost. They also look a lot better than I would have expected with that renderer.

[gemeaux333]

I would personnally be ready to work on the french translation of the game for free if it could make sure the translation is faithfull (especially in the spirit) !

[Zaxx]

Here's something I love and where I have to give huge props to the level designers for being smart as fuck:


Every time you're about to reach a point of no return not only does the game tell you that you missed some secrets but you can also see a nice little graffiti with the game's logo. Meanwhile in the new Wolfenstein games (and to a lesser extent even in Doom 2016) you can constantly worry about accidentally crossing a point of no return before you actually explore the area for secrets. On top of all this it's a nice little reference to the "end of level buttons" of the old Build games.

An "indie" game doing stuff better than AAA titles developed from tens of millions of dollars, how is that not great?

[NightFright]

I also appreciated the missing secrets notification, together with the strong emphasis on exploration in this game in general. It's nothing less than the triumphant return of the "secrets shooter". I have only seen a similarly rewarding implementation in "Hard Reset" where you would find additional nanos to help you upgrade your gear. Here it's more about trying to be a completionist and "see it all", but it's quite a motivational factor and encourages you to play with a higher awareness for clues that may lead to secrets.

If the full version consequently sees this formula through and the maps are as enjoyable as those from the preview, there's no reason to deny Ion Maiden its recognition as the true spiritual successor of Duke Nukem 3D. Which is, by all means, what we have all been waiting for since fuggin' 22 years.

[cybdmn]

gemeaux333, on 15 March 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

I would personnally be ready to work on the french translation of the game for free if it could make sure the translation is faithfull (especially in the spirit) !

Yea, we here in europe know how stubborn french people are about their own language. You in france even have laws to enforce the use of the french language.

In fact NOT translating anything in the game would NOT harm the sales, because you can play and finish the game without even understand a single word. We don't talk about a game where understanding is essential to proceed in the game, we talk about a classic first person shooter, no need for localize anything, especially not the One-liners.
The idea alone is just an over-expensive bonus, which is far too much for a small studio like Voidpoint.

[Perro Seco]

The first time I played Duke 3D I was a kid, and enjoyed the game a lot without having idea what was going on or what Duke was saying.

[Micky C]

Fox, on 15 March 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

Good old Polymost. Hopefully we will have rewritten a good part of the GL code for the full version.

And you all thought I was crazy for 3DR paying to have the renderer improved Although I assume Fox is referring to Polymost here instead of Polymer.

NightFright, on 15 March 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

I think it's remarkable you were able to pull off these kinda maps with Polymost. They also look a lot better than I would have expected with that renderer.

Can you elaborate? Did you think classic would do a better job for example?

The different blending modes, particularly alpha blending, go a long way to making the visuals more colourful and interesting.

[Hendricks266]

Micky C, on 15 March 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

And you all thought I was crazy for 3DR paying to have the renderer improved

This is not happening. I almost downvoted you because of the winky face.

[HulkNukem]

Zaxx, on 15 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

An "indie" game doing stuff better than AAA titles developed from tens of millions of dollars, how is that not great?

Ehhhhhhhhh

While I would agree getting to a point of no return and missing secrets was lame for Doom '16, the game allows you to replay levels with collectibles permanently unlocked so it essentially became a mute point.
I wouldn't say better, just handled differently.
Plus the way levels work in Doom 16 and Wolf are different than Ion Maiden; they have much more scripting and straight forward sections that they would have to be completely redesigned to work to allow you to backtrack the entire thing.
Ion Maiden's levels are designed to be more open ended and circular.