[MetHy]

I love the first part about Half-Life, up until you reach the surface, because everything about it is survival horror. Normal every day life, than unexplainable shit with monsters go down and you start weaponless with only one goal, surviving and finding the exit of the damn place.

You fight monsters, often you hear them before you can see them, you solve puzzles to advance further, you see dead coworkers, enemies torning them to pieces, etc
I'm amazed how nobody noticed how much of a survival horror the first part of HL1 actually is.

Once you reach the surface everything's completly different though, it's just a war FPS, with some realistic enemy AI. It's not bad, not as much what I enjoy.

The problem with Half-Life really isn't so much the game itself. The game itself is fine and it went into the right direction as far as video game storytelling go by trying to get rid of cutscenes and by trying to tell a story through bits and pieces that the player who'd see for himself rather than be told about it.

The problem with Half-Life is what people made of it. They all liked it and praised it for what I think were the wrong reasons, and these reasons were so talked about it overshadowed everything else and the game became influencial just on that.

Opposing Force it terrible though.

[MusicallyInspired]

Half Life is still one of the best ever. Your opinions are now irrelevant to me.

It does have problems, though, which makes HL2 better.

[Micky C]

As someone born in the early 90's, a lot of the FPS games of that era were before my time, including Duke Nukem 3D. Obviously I find a lot of the classics from those times quite fun to play, however the original Half Life is definitely somewhat tedious to get through at times. It's nothing more than an "ok" game, and most likely not something I'll be investing the time to finish.

It's very easy to see why it was revolutionary for its time, however the same features which made it so revolutionary back then are what make it so dated now. Watching an enemy break through a door, or some scientists die in a falling elevator simply doesn't have the same impact that it used to. What you're left with is the combat and the platforming which is incredibly "meh". People seem to praise the story, but as far as story goes it's incredibly simple and doesn't really pull me in, same for immersion. Something like Deus Ex did both of those much, much better.

Half Life 2 on the other hand holds up much better for a variety of reasons.

[MetHy]

"Story" is often used as a catch-all term.
I think what most people meant to praise with Half-Life was storytelling.

[Tea Monster]

Half life was the first shooter to have any kind of story. It was the first shooter to have 'real' NPCs who impacted the story as characters. Half life showed the way.

[Hendricks266]

Tea Monster, on 27 September 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Half life showed the way.

The way to this?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Hendricks266, on 27 September 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

The way to this?

That's an unfair comparison because the Half Life 1 levels did have some side paths and alcoves.

[Spiker]

Hey the layout on the left looks like one of my maps

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Spiker, on 27 September 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Hey the layout on the left looks like one of my maps

Shameless plugs only work if you provide a link to said map.

[Micky C]

Tea Monster, on 27 September 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Half life was the first shooter to have any kind of story. It was the first shooter to have 'real' NPCs who impacted the story as characters. Half life showed the way.

So.... it's not good, it was just first?

Doesn't really excuse it IMO.

[Jblade]

That image is disengenious and 'blaming' Valve for what mediocre devs have created afterwards is flat out retarded. I know most people can only specialize in hyperbole these days but HL was continuing on the path that Duke 3D set with scripted sequences and story telling told throughout the levels. Chuck Jones even did concept art for both of the games.

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So.... it's not good, it was just first?

Doesn't really excuse it IMO.

I normally respect your opinions Micky but I really think you're going out of your way to intentionally dislike Half-life. What point are you even trying to make here? excuse it from what? It had a plot that wasn't told through cutscenes or mission text, it gave it a feeling of viriscimilitude that even though it was basically a retelling of Doom with a faux-realism bent it still felt like a believable take on the themes. Most of what happened you found out as you played, the clean-up operation wasn't spoiled in a cutscene or with a dramatic voiceover - you see it happen in the exact same room. Valve were good at subtle storytelling even at the beginning.

[Player Lin]

I'm not sure HL1 was a game like 2010-era of FPS..since that picture was targeted on CoD:MW-like games.

But, I don't care haters, for me, HL1 still give me a feel about the universe was like alive, and those things in BMRF..., made me keep try to replay the game and wonder around on every levels...well, I'm not sure how to explain about this more clearly... :\

[Daedolon]

Tea Monster, on 27 September 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Half life was the first shooter to have any kind of story.

What a weird way to spell System Shock.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Daedolon, on 27 September 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

What a weird way to spell Blake Stone

Fixed.

[Micky C]

Jblade, on 27 September 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

That image is disengenious and 'blaming' Valve for what mediocre devs have created afterwards is flat out retarded. I know most people can only specialize in hyperbole these days but HL was continuing on the path that Duke 3D set with scripted sequences and story telling told throughout the levels. Chuck Jones even did concept art for both of the games.

I normally respect your opinions Micky but I really think you're going out of your way to intentionally dislike Half-life. What point are you even trying to make here? excuse it from what? It had a plot that wasn't told through cutscenes or mission text, it gave it a feeling of viriscimilitude that even though it was basically a retelling of Doom with a faux-realism bent it still felt like a believable take on the themes. Most of what happened you found out as you played, the clean-up operation wasn't spoiled in a cutscene or with a dramatic voiceover - you see it happen in the exact same room. Valve were good at subtle storytelling even at the beginning.

I'm just saying I've probably started half life half a dozen or so times with the intention of completing it, but it never exceeds at motivating me to do so. There are definitely some fun bits in there, but also a lot of dull bits in between.

[Marphy Black]

Person of Color, on 26 September 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Dude I know! They actually added this hot new thing called combat! What a fucking shocker!

I think the combat in Half-Life is among the some of the highest quality ever achieved in a first person shooter, and even today, it remains largely unparalleled thanks to the intricate AI which makes every battle both engaging, entertaining, and unique.

Keep in mind that Half-Life focuses on smaller enemy counts. For example, the maximum soldier squad size is four: one leader and three grunts. This was a bit of a risky move in 1998 as most successful first person shooters by that point achieved their fun value by mass quantities of hostiles (which I adore, but there had been few attempts at anything otherwise). However, while other titles had AI with enemies acting like omniscient pachinko balls, Half-Life took a gamble by taking a much different and unexplored route. Enemies never magically know where you, the player, are. In order to ascertain your position at any time, they must rely on their own sight and sound detection (smell, mainly meant for aliens, was only partially implemented). Check the source code, and you'll see a complex system of "last seen positions", scouting areas, and investigating sounds (fire gun shots and you'll grab attention, sneak by crouching and you can silently maneuver around). Simply finding the player isn't the sole goal of the AI, either. They make decisions based on their circumstances. Soldiers will throw grenades at your last seen position in an attempt to flush you out, while Alien Grunts will happily abuse the homing-capabilities of their tracking hornet projectiles by deliberately hanging back and firing them around corners they see you duck behind.

Even then, that's not the extent of the AI's decision-making, as several enemy types are coded to work together in a collaborative effort. While one soldier throws a grenade to flush you out, another will intentionally rush into a flanking position to catch you off guard. If you're chasing down a retreating soldier, another soldier can detect you're running after him and drop a grenade at his own feet to head you off. Not only do these AI squads act together, but they communicate based on their hierarchy as well. When the squad leader is alive, the squad acts much more efficiently as his grunts will continuously communicate your last seen position to him which he relays to the rest of his soldiers. If you kill the squad leader, this chain of command is broken, and each individual unit in the squad must track you down on his own as he's lost instant communication through his commander.

Perhaps the most impressive feat in all this is the fact that this AI is completely dynamic. All a squad needs is some info_nodes to function. There's no heavy scripting to feign intelligence in play, and it's a joy to be engaged by the AI over 15 years later. If I had to name one fault here, it's that the engine's stiff pathfinding and movement holds back the fluidity of the AI. Mods like Sven Co-op aim to improve this, however.

If you're not convinced by your own experiences from the game, I suppose you'll just have to take my word on this, but I can tell you that I regularly delve into the Half-Life source code, and almost every time I can take away something new that surprises me. There's a vast amount a depth for 1998 that embarrasses even many shooters today (although that's may be more of a commentary on the general modern state of shooters). Even Half-Life 2 is a downgrade as Valve chose to make the AI, while inheriting much of the original squad cooperation and behavior, much slower to move and react in order to highlight the newly introduced Havok physics system (it's easier to fire physics objects with your Gravity Gun at mostly stationary targets than ones darting around trying to outmaneuver and flank you).

[Flying Techbot]

Person of Color, on 26 September 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

Half-Life is the most overrated game of all time, ever, full stop. It's everything a first person shooter SHOULDN'T be. It's slow, boring, the enemies are tiny and irritating (Except the Xen and soldiers),

Slow and boring? I've known slower games, and I wouldn't call Half-Life boring. And the only tiny enemies are headcrabs, houndeyes, and snarks. Did you get killed easily by headcrabs and snarks?

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it has endless needless puzzles that artificially inflate the game's length and slow it down even further

The puzzles are not that time consuming if you know what you're doing. They're relatively quick. The longest puzzles are from Blast Pit and Power Up, but just involves getting to certain areas to activate buttons. I think of those sections and the fight with the Nihilinth to be elaborate homages to the puzzle-based bosses of Quake 1 and Doom II.

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and the environments are among the most uninspired ever. I mean seriously, a giant subterranean top secret research base and it looks like THAT?! It's the original "brown and bloom" shooter

It's a old bunker in New Mexico. What did you expect? And I don't know what you count as being inspired design, but Half-Life's design for me was, and still is, inspired and has a lot of variety. And it has way more variety of color than the brown shooters you're complaining about. I don't understand the bloom complaint, since Half-Life doesn't have bloom.

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On top of all that shit I have never played a first person shooter that completely fails to reward the player for anything. The enemies don't feel satisfying when you kill them,

You've never felt the joy in smashing a headcrab with a crowbar, shotgunning the houndeyes, or using the grenade launcher alt fire of the machine gun against the grunts? What about using the crossbow or revolver on the grunts heads when they least expect it?

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the puzzles are so tedious you just sigh and 'thank God', and there's a terrible sense of forward progression. It's downright fucking circular. You spend all your time solving inane puzzles which usually involve hitting the right buttons to move some broken shit out of the way, then discovering you need to find another button. Meanwhile you've shot maybe ten guys in twenty minutes...if you're lucky. When it's all said and done, you've moved forward 500 yards.

I've known far more tedious puzzles, many from the early adventure games from Sierra. And most games rely on a sense of forward progression. Even Half-Life 2 relied on a sense of forward progression, and stopped the action for puzzles.

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Oh yeah, and the controls! Boy do they suck! It's one of the worst handling shooters of the 90's. You move fast and loose and the ladder controls are the worst I have ever experienced. Precision shooting is a nightmare, and platforming is a night terror! But don't worry. There's plenty of both! Plus it's got more ladders than Donkey Kong!

The controls are basic WSAD keys, and they can be customized any way you want. What's the problem? I used to play Half-Life on only a keyboard before I discovered the WSAD-mouse combination, and the game was still easy for me to play. And the controls have nothing to do with ladder handling. The ladder part feels a little more complicated than I remembered it, and it still handles weirdly. But other than than, the shooting is not a problem. I find it way more precise than in Half-Life 2, and I'm always right on target when I shoot. As for platforming, besides knowing how to longjump and crouch jump in certain areas (which, I admit, took me awhile to master when I was younger), the jumping isn't all bad. If you messed up a jump, it's your own fault.

Quote

All you do is fall and die in this game.

If you're falling and dying, that must mean it's not altogether boring.

Did you save your game often, or save your progress in previous slots before screwing up? And did you practice crouch jumping and longjumping in the Hazard Course before endangering your life? Another important thing, did you do a full playthrough on Easy skill before punishing yourself on Difficult?

Half-Life requires skill, and it's very easy once you know what you're doing.

[MusicallyInspired]

I really don't understand the complaints for this game...go back to 1998, it was the best thing around. It is very samey throughout and can get "sigh....more shooting" as you get through it, but compared to the likes of Quake and everything at the time, it was no different in that respect. Though, in fact, it had more to the game to break up the action than just shooting all the time like Quake.

Ok. Quake. To this day I CANNOT for the life of me figure out why it is praised so much. It's a TERRIBLE game. You want to talk about the original brown shooter? Quake. Samey gameplay everywhere? QUAKE. Levels lacking cohesion of any kind and being a mishmash of random abstract medieval designs while trying to force a sci-fi aesthetic at the same time that just does not work? Q. U. A. K. E. Half-Life was miles ahead of Quake in every way. COLOURS, for one thing. Intelligent AI. Fun weapons. A sense of exploration. Yes, it's been said that Half-Life was very linear, but it wasn't always. There were sections that treated levels and areas like a hub like classic shooters from the non-linearity of Doom to the likes of cross-level puzzle solving like Hexen. Take the silo section with the giant tentacles. You had to go through 3 different areas back and forth through the same hub before you could kill the thing. That pacing was brilliant. And every time you went to a new area you had to sneak past the tentacles actually in the silo. By the time you got the test fire up and running and got all the way back up to start it up you had built up an immense sense of satisfaction at seeing the thing actually FINALLY die. It wasn't all linearity and it wasn't all scripted sequences, platforming, and shooting at things. It can feel long now, but back then it was quite an adventure. I couldn't wait to see what was behind the next corridor or in the next area.

Brilliant game. And what it seems outdated and repetitive in now HL2 only improved and updated. Maybe that's why Valve haven't made HL3 yet, though. They can't think of a good way to bring it back without compromising what made it great, which apparently doesn't work anymore...I say it does, but I'm not in the majority I guess.

You want to talk about bad controls and game physics? I'd say Jedi Knight takes that cake. Nothing but slipping and sliding everywhere. Jumping up on a ledge only to be "pushed" away because it was slightly protruded towards you....aghh...

[Loke]

Flying Techbot, on 27 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

You've never felt the joy in smashing a headcrab with a crowbar, shotgunning the houndeyes, or using the grenade launcher alt fire of the machine gun against the grunts? What about using the crossbow or revolver on the grunts heads when they least expect it?

Scientist Slaughterhouse is one of the most satisfying mod I've ever played.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

You guys are arguing over certain 90s FPS'es being underrated/overrated.

This isn't GameFAQs. You all are better than this. Come on.

[Player Lin]

I tend to avoid such pointless and boring threads about such arguing, but I guess I were just cannot resist posted my rant...

Oh, wait, here's Duke4.net, right?

[Sixty Four]

I don't know I never liked Half Life very much either. I never could get into it, imo there is a much better game from 98 then HL. I'm not like trying to join an argument or poke at it hehe, to me it just looks like opinions and well this is mine.

[PsychoGoatee]

RIPGhost, on 27 September 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

I don't know I never liked Half Life very much either. I never could get into it, imo there is a much better game from 98 then HL. I'm not like trying to join an argument or poke at it hehe, to me it just looks like opinions and well this is mine.

Ocarina of Time, Metal Gear Solid? Plenty of great games from 98 to choose from.

I dig HL, but I did feel the single-player lost something along the way, for me personally. Started strong. I played Action Half-Life and other great mods for years and years though. And HL2 is a terrific single-player game for me. Everybody has their favs.


I say Gearbox assembles a team with at least one person who worked on HL, Ocarina of Time, and Metal Gear Solid. Build a 98 dream team for the next Duke game, why not.

[Sixty Four]

Yeah those are great games from 98 I played the heck out of both especially Zelda. I have a funny feeling people from those games would be hard to get in contact with to work on Duke hehe. But it would draw attention right? Anyway, as for fps of 98 there was also Turok 2, I personally got much more enjoyment out of Turok 2. Dinosaurs, monsters, tribal doods, story, open levels, and one of the best set of weapons featured in any fps game. I am not trying to diss on HL though it just wasn't really for me and my taste.

[Daedolon]

PsychoGoatee, on 27 September 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

Ocarina of Time, Metal Gear Solid? Plenty of great games from 98 to choose from.

Neither is Thief: The Dark Project, but they are pretty cool.

[OpenMaw]

Operation Bodycount will always be the best first person shooter ever made, and you're all a bunch of new-age hipsters for not recognizing it's greatness.

[MetHy]

I enjoyed Operation Bodycount.

[Daedolon]

[ReaperMan]

Commando Nukem, on 28 September 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Operation Bodycount will always be the best first person shooter ever made, and you're all a bunch of new-age hipsters for not recognizing it's greatness.

No sir that honor goes to Corridor 7.

[Daedolon]

Neither has anything on Depth Dwellers.