[Altered Reality]

I heard Scott and George sold the Shadow Warrior IP, which reminds me of when they sold the Max Payne and Prey IPs because they really wanted to procrastinate the release of DNF some more. But George certainly won't invest his quota into 3DRealms, having been kicked out of it with reason. So what's the gaming industry laughingstock doing these days? Is he still under the delusion that he is a game developer? Is he obsessively gambling away his newly found money? Has he ever been trolled by someone who talked about DNF with him like it was 2005, pestering him to release screenshots and asking for a release date? If not, he should be.

[Engel220]

He sometimes makes Ludum Dare games and just hangs out on Twitter talking to people like Notch and other randomers. All in all, not much.

[HulkNukem]

I remember when Gearbox was first officially announced as the new developer of DNF back in, what, 2010? George said he had many offers to write a book about the development and would see about maybe doing one.




WID

[Radar]

He suffered a minor stroke last year.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Luckily he recovered from the stroke. He's no longer part of 3DR.

Quote

George is a very close friend of ours -- he's a huge part of the heart and soul of 3D Realms. George is still connected to us, but isn't active at this time. The door is always open, of course, and we hope to see George back in action in the future!

He does some consulting for developers, and was mentioned before, he seems pretty active in the indie dev scene (7DFPS and his many Ludum Dare entries).

[Richard Shead]

I always felt kinda bad for George. Sure he made a lot of mistakes, and yes, he's in a large part responsible for DNF being what it turned out to be. But it's pretty obvious that anything negative he did for the Duke franchise was not intentional or malicious. Reading his old posts over the duration of DNF's development, you could feel the passion and enthusiasm he had for the game. He wanted it to be a quality product probably more than anyone else in the world. He also seemed to be a fairly down to earth guy who took a lot of the jokes and criticisms in stride. I think most people would've completely lost it with all the nastiness flung in their direction, as Mr. Broussard had to endure for years. Perhaps he should've realized beforehand that some of the decisions he made would lead to disastrous consequences...but you can't blame him at this point. And after all, you really can't judge someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. None of us were in George's position, let alone on the 3DR team so we can't make rash assumptions or jump to conclusions regarding his supposed lack of competence. I honestly wish him nothing but the best.

[Fox]

That's a strategy of the gaming industry. You personalize the making of a game into a single person, and if the game doesn't do well it's all the fault of said person. Never it's the company and the executives to blame.

[Radar]

Troo. The presidency works the saem.

[Person of Color]

Drinking playing poker and generally just being a fucking loser. He's gonna have to move on to penny slots in a few years.

[Person of Color]

And he's fat.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Fox, on 03 July 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

That's a strategy of the gaming industry. You personalize the making of a game into a single person, and if the game doesn't do well it's all the fault of said person. Never it's the company and the executives to blame.

Ugh, it's the lamest form of marketing. Back in late 2012, 2K made Ken Levine go on a near non-stop press tour until Infinite shipped. With the hyperbole the journalists used, you could be forgiven for thinking Levine wholly conceived every aspect of Bioshock on his own. In some of the interviews and profiles on the game, the rest of Irrational come across as mere humble craftsmen, who struggled to realize his perfect vision. It's just applying the autuer theory to games.

Quote

"I am winding down Irrational Games as you know it." - Ken Levine - LMAO!

[Altered Reality]

HulkNukem, on 03 July 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

I remember when Gearbox was first officially announced as the new developer of DNF back in, what, 2010? George said he had many offers to write a book about the development and would see about maybe doing one.




WID

LOL, more like...

Quote

George is a very close friend of ours -- he's a huge part of the heart and soul of 3D Realms. George is still connected to us, but isn't active at this time. The door is always open, of course, and we hope to see George back in action in the future!

LOL (double combo!), you can almost taste the lie.

Mr. Tibbs, on 03 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

He does some consulting for developers

LOL (triple combo!), I can imagine the suggestions he's giving: "Never, ever commit to a deadline!"; "Don't ever release a game until you are sure it's done, and if you don't like it, you can always start over!"; "Be sure to hype the hell out of your game, and then just disappear. Never answer questions. People's expectations will not be unrealistic at all!"

Mr. Tibbs, on 03 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

and was mentioned before, he seems pretty active in the indie dev scene (7DFPS and his many Ludum Dare entries).

LOL (super combo!), that answers my question about his delusional belief.

Duke Rocks, on 03 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

I always felt kinda bad for George.

I don't, and I'm about to explain why (C-C-C-Combo breaker!)

Duke Rocks, on 03 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

But it's pretty obvious that anything negative he did for the Duke franchise was not intentional or malicious.

You're right here, he did not do it out of malice, which is why I don't feel pity for him.
Let's compare him to a sadist. A sadist knows that what he does is wrong, and when his desire ceases, he stops. And now, let's compare him to a person who does evil while being absolutely convinced to be doing good. For example, a mother who imprisons her own children into a cellar because she is convinced that they need protection from the outside world. No matter what you say, you won't be able to reason with a person like that, and they just won't stop, because they are adamantly convinced that they are right, while the rest of the world is just too stupid to get it and must be ignored.

Duke Rocks, on 03 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

I think most people would've completely lost it with all the nastiness flung in their direction, as Mr. Broussard had to endure for years.

Maybe George didn't "lose it" because he "never had it". He was always convinced that what he was doing is right, every restart was right, every idea he had (like wanting to shoehorn a snow level in DNF after playing The Thing) was right, it was just "those stupid people in the forum" who "didn't get it". Which is why he never snapped: he felt too superior to those people. After all, people don't regularly snap at dust mites.

Duke Rocks, on 03 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

Perhaps he should've realized beforehand that some of the decisions he made would lead to disastrous consequences...but you can't blame him at this point.

He should have, indeed, but people like that don't usually let go. If they do, it's only after they ruined it for who knows how many people... but that doesn't move them one bit. It's only when something bad happens to themselves that they change their mind. In the case of "the mother" of my previous example, someone else calling the cops on her. In the case of DNF, Take2's lawsuit. If it wasn't for Take2's lawsuit, we wouldn't be here now. We would be in the 3DRealms forum, p0stwh0ring and laughing at whoever gets a feeling that the release must be reeeeeal close now.

Fox, on 03 July 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

That's a strategy of the gaming industry. You personalize the making of a game into a single person, and if the game doesn't do well it's all the fault of said person. Never it's the company and the executives to blame.

As opposed to what? Taking none of the blame for a failure, saying "Don't blame me, blame the company of which I am the leader and for which I take all decisions!"

[Person of Color]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[TerminX]

Let us not forget that George made Duke Nukem 3D. To claim he's somehow not a game developer because the greatness of Duke3D went to his head is ridiculous. That's like ignoring Doom and Quake and trying to say John Romero isn't a game developer because Daikatana turned out like it did.

[HulkNukem]

TerminX, on 03 July 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Let us not forget that George made Duke Nukem 3D. To claim he's somehow not a game developer because the greatness of Duke3D went to his head is ridiculous. That's like ignoring Doom and Quake and trying to say John Romero isn't a game developer because Daikatana turned out like it did.

Its really unfortunate DNF and Daikatana are the last really huge games both these guys have worked on, especially when some other big name developers have failures but keep getting AAA titles to develop.

[Fox]

Altered Reality, on 03 July 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

As opposed to what? Taking none of the blame for a failure, saying "Don't blame me, blame the company of which I am the leader and for which I take all decisions!"

Gearbox?

[Person of Color]

TerminX, on 03 July 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

That's like ignoring Doom and Quake and trying to say John Romero isn't a game developer because Daikatana turned out like it did.

Don't bring "Five Wives Bitches and Lies" into this. He was instrumental with many things, but he's got a Cluster B personality disorder and no longer has a career because he's not a good person. He's had other chances since Daikatana and blew every one. There's a string of his misdeeds and shenanigans strewn all over the web, most notably the Mike Wilson fiasco of 2008. Also he wasn't able to maintain a relationship with Rhaluka, L O L. Seriously, he gave up the greatest gamer chick ever for fucking Horseface McGee.

Romero has had no constant friends over the past 25 years. There's a very good reason for that. I think Tom Hall is debatable considering how much he appears to come and go.

Broussard is just inept. He's not a bad guy, he's incapable of leading, just like Romero. Daikatana could have been recovered from but DNF was too much of a failure.

[Fox]

delete

[Mr. Tibbs]

Person of Color, on 03 July 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Don't bring "Five Wives Burgers and Lies" into this. He was instrumental with many things, but he's got a Cluster B personality disorder and no longer has a career because he's not a good person. He's had other chances since Daikatana and blew every one. There's a string of his misdeeds and shenanigans all over the web, most notably the Mike Wilson fiasco of 2008.

The Gamecock years certainly showed the darker side of Mike Wilson. That letter was brutal!

Even if you forget about his id stuff, Romero's the fucking man for making Deus Ex and Anachronox happen.

Quote

Spector credits none other than John Romero for enabling the creation of Deus Ex; Romero occasionally takes heat for the fast-and-loose way he ran Ion Storm, but that environment is what convinced Spector to actually get on with making the game he'd been thinking about since 1994. "I got a call from John Romero up in Dallas from Ion Storm, saying, 'How would you like to make the game of your dreams, with no creative interference? No one will ever tell you anything'," he says in the video. "Who says no to that opportunity?"

The ultimate takeaway of Daikatana, DNF and all outspoken developers is to never underestimate how much people enjoy schadenfreude. Avoid the old "promise nothing, imply everything" approach, and keep a low profile!

[Altered Reality]

Fox, on 03 July 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Gearbox?

No, don't blame Gearbox for DNF. Let me tell you a little fable.
Once upon a time, there was a potter named George who wanted to make the pefect vase, but was completely uncapable to make a vase that wasn't crooked. So, every time he pulled one of his crooked vases out of the kiln, he smashed it in rage and started making a new one. But people wanted to buy George's vases, so, one day, another potter named Randy passed by and collected all fragments of the vase that George smashed most recently. He glued them together and sold the vase to the customers. Some of the customers, who were in denial about George's ability, started blaming Randy that the vase was crooked and there was glue on it.

TerminX, on 03 July 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Let us not forget that George made Duke Nukem 3D

Don't say that Duke3D succeeded because of George. Do say that Duke3D succeeded despite George. Do you want to praise someone for Duke3D? Praise Allen Blum, Todd Replogle and Richard Gray.

TerminX, on 03 July 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

That's like ignoring Doom and Quake and trying to say John Romero isn't a game developer because Daikatana turned out like it did.

When John Romero worked on Doom and Quake, he was an employee following other people's ideas, unlike when he was making Daikatana.
Daikatana came out in 2000, how many great games did he make after that? ZERO!

[Tea Monster]

Read 'Masters of Doom' before describing what input he did and didn't have with Doom and Quake.

[♥Coraline♥]

Mr. Tibbs, on 03 July 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

The Gamecock years certainly showed the darker side of Mike Wilson. That letter was brutal!

Even if you forget about his id stuff, Romero's the fucking man for making Deus Ex and Anachronox happen.



The ultimate takeaway of Daikatana, DNF and all outspoken developers is to never underestimate how much people enjoy schadenfreude. Avoid the old "promise nothing, imply everything" approach, and keep a low profile!

Mike Wilson is a cool cat, he was just probably going through some shit. Really nice guy otherwise.

Romero sort of talked up the fact that he "made" both of those games happen, but honestly, they would have happened anyway. If not Romero, someone else. He still put both of those teams through absolute hell by leading Ion Storm in the most embarrassing way possible. His footnote mention at the end of Deus Ex seems way too forced. Anyone else keep up with the Ion Storm leaks back then? What a nightmare, I can only imagine how Warren Spector felt.

DNF I feel is the better game, at least it didn't have bugs, looked pretty, and was playable from start to finish (it was just suffering from identity crisis, didn't make it a bad game at all). Daikatana, while a half-decent game, was flawed from the very beginning in more than one way (design decisions, fatal bugs, varying degrees of quality, etc) that stopped most people from giving it a chance.

[MusicallyInspired]

Gearbox has been involved with other blunders than just DNF.

[Altered Reality]

Tea Monster, on 04 July 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

Read 'Masters of Doom' before describing what input he did and didn't have with Doom and Quake.

That'd be like asking any presidential candidate whether people should vote for him. No, let facts, not words, do the talking. I repeat: if he was that good in coordinating the development of a game, he would have released at least one masterpiece after Daikatana, but he didn't. Claiming he made Deus Ex and Anachronox happen only makes me wonder whether he is delusional, in bad faith, or just suffering from unwarranted self-importance. Everyone knows that Deus Ex happened because of Warren Spector, and Anachronox happened because of Tom Hall.

[Sixty Four]

Well George was not a rich guy who just had everything from my understanding he was a normal guy with a dream to make a game(Duke Nukem). He got along very well with his team maybe he was to nice? I think I saw that somewhere. In his time games were harder to make then today and harder to release them to, you couldn't just throw it on kickstarter or poop it out on steam greenlight. Also, the gaming industry was also not as big as it is today not even close.. making it harder to stay on top of the finance section. If they were to release Duke Nukem 3D in this time and age(considering it in it's prime) they would be well off. It can't just be George's fault that things went south its never one persons fault or even two people for that matter. Its more like a build up process that ends in a bad place yes he was the manager so blame goes to him but having understanding in business its never one persons fault fully but they have to take the blame for being the face. Without said guy there would be no Duke 3D I think its safe to say without Duke 3D there would be no Duke4 as well. Hey just my thoughts

[HulkNukem]

Altered Reality, on 04 July 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

That'd be like asking any presidential candidate whether people should vote for him. No, let facts, not words, do the talking. I repeat: if he was that good in coordinating the development of a game, he would have released at least one masterpiece after Daikatana, but he didn't. Claiming he made Deus Ex and Anachronox happen only makes me wonder whether he is delusional, in bad faith, or just suffering from unwarranted self-importance. Everyone knows that Deus Ex happened because of Warren Spector, and Anachronox happened because of Tom Hall.

AFAIK, Romero hired Warren Spector about the time he was laid off, told him to make whatever he wants, and gave him money to do it.
He also had gotten HumanHead an Unreal engine license to make Daikatana 2, but it fell through due to how Daikatana turned out but still didn't make them payback any money or anything, he let them go and keep the license, and they later went on to create games like Rune and Prey, both excellent games.
While he didn't necessarily create Deus Ex or Humanhead or Anachronox, he still got the ball rolling in that regard. Daikatana was his own pet project, and no matter the circumstances surrounding it, it failed to be as big as Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, or Quake.
He's also not the sole person behind those big 3 id games, either. HOWEVER, look at what id has done after Romero left. Quake 2 has a ton of mixed feelings as does Quake 3; majority of people were disappointed in Doom 3, and Rage has already disappeared from existence. These are all solid games but aren't on the level of those three games Romero was a part of.
Without Romero, id probably would've never existed and neither would these games; you can say the same for Carmack, Hall, et al.

[TerminX]

Altered Reality, on 04 July 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

That'd be like asking any presidential candidate whether people should vote for him.

Only if you have some kind of foolish misconception that John Romero wrote Masters of Doom.

[Person of Color]

Mr. Tibbs, on 03 July 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

The Gamecock years certainly showed the darker side of Mike Wilson. That letter was brutal!

It was wholly deserved. Romero, once again, was shit talking an ex-friend he fucked over. Just like the .plan wars.

Quote

Even if you forget about his id stuff, Romero's the fucking man for making Deus Ex and Anachronox happen.

While I'm not going to sit back and deny my love for all things Deus Ex and Anachronox, well, except Invisible War...I'm not gonna give Romero credit. His company allowed it all to happen, but Anachronox was seriously hurt by Ion and Eidos' failings.

As for Romero? In the words of Sly Boots: "You're a leech."

Altered Reality, on 04 July 2015 - 03:11 AM, said:

No, don't blame Gearbox for DNF. Let me tell you a little fable.
Once upon a time, there was a potter named George who wanted to make the pefect vase, but was completely uncapable to make a vase that wasn't crooked. So, every time he pulled one of his crooked vases out of the kiln, he smashed it in rage and started making a new one. But people wanted to buy George's vases, so, one day, another potter named Randy passed by and collected all fragments of the vase that George smashed most recently. He glued them together and sold the vase to the customers. Some of the customers, who were in denial about George's ability, started blaming Randy that the vase was crooked and there was glue on it.

Don't say that Duke3D succeeded because of George. Do say that Duke3D succeeded despite George. Do you want to praise someone for Duke3D? Praise Allen Blum, Todd Replogle and Richard Gray.

When John Romero worked on Doom and Quake, he was an employee following other people's ideas, unlike when he was making Daikatana.
Daikatana came out in 2000, how many great games did he make after that? ZERO!

Romero had more to do with Doom's success than Broussard had with Duke 3D. Romero was instrumental in the overall design of the game, as well as producing it's best levels, which are every bit as good today as they were then. In other words, some of the best in history.

Altered Reality, on 04 July 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

That'd be like asking any presidential candidate whether people should vote for him. No, let facts, not words, do the talking. I repeat: if he was that good in coordinating the development of a game, he would have released at least one masterpiece after Daikatana, but he didn't. Claiming he made Deus Ex and Anachronox happen only makes me wonder whether he is delusional, in bad faith, or just suffering from unwarranted self-importance. Everyone knows that Deus Ex happened because of Warren Spector, and Anachronox happened because of Tom Hall.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This. Tom Hall was the best designer id had, and one of the best in history. Tom Hall needs total creative freedom to flourish. id Software was the ONLY company matching Nintendo's platformer quality back then, even Sega couldn't pull it off with Sonic 1. Wolf3D was groundbreaking. RoTT sucked because Tom was forced to work on a project he didn't really believe in. Anachronox is the second best game ever made and the best PC exclusive title there is.

Don't even get me started on Deus Ex. I could rant for hours. Warren Spector is the shit, although I think Eidos Montreal produces better Deus Ex stuff.

I can't give Romero any credit for that, geniuses made those games, not narcissistic borderline attention whores.

TerminX, on 04 July 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Only if you have some kind of foolish misconception that John Romero wrote Masters of Doom.

Masters of Doom isn't as fun to read after you find out how shady Romero actually is. It's still a great book though. I just have doubts about some of it now.

[TerminX]

Person of Color, on 04 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Masters of Doom isn't as fun to read after you find out how shady Romero actually is. It's still a great book though. I just have doubts about some of it now.

Pretty much everyone in the industry on the business side is "shady" in one way or another. If you're a good guy you look out for your friends, and if you're a piece of shit you don't, but you always look out for your own self interests--and that inevitably means at some point you do something that at least one group of outside individuals would consider to be shady. It cannot be avoided.

[Mr. Tibbs]

♥Coraline♥, on 04 July 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

Romero sort of talked up the fact that he "made" both of those games happen, but honestly, they would have happened anyway. If not Romero, someone else. He still put both of those teams through absolute hell by leading Ion Storm in the most embarrassing way possible. His footnote mention at the end of Deus Ex seems way too forced. Anyone else keep up with the Ion Storm leaks back then? What a nightmare, I can only imagine how Warren Spector felt.

Spector talked up the fact Romero made them DX happen - when he received his GDC lifetime achievement award, he signaled him out. Neither game would have happened elsewhere. Spector's Looking Glass Austin studio was shut down just before Romero offered the Ion deal. He had his DX pitch since 1994. No one was interested because Underworld 2 and System Shock didn't sell - Thief worked because it was subsidized by Flight Unlimited. He was about to accept a position over at EA from his friend Richard Hilleman on a Command and Conquer RPG.

At the very best, they would have been signed and then outright cancelled. What other publisher would let a 20-something team develop a JRPG for 4 years in a Dallas penthouse? One that was contractually obligated to. I'm not saying Romero can lay claim to their designs, he can't, but if it wasn't for the contracts Romero, Wilson and co. managed to secure for Ion Storm, Daikatana, Deus Ex, and Anachronox wouldn't have happened. They are the games they are, ones made without creative interference, thanks to that contract.

I've read the leaks. The Austin studio didn't have any of the problems Dallas had, which was Romero's team not Hall's Anachronox team, and were given the complete creative freedom Romero promised. They delivered with DX, and despite the universal praise, managed to fumble big time with Invisible War - nobodies perfect.