[The Commander]

When was this DPCB map included with it?
I probably have a older version of it laying around.

[Forge]

i'm sure Gambini has the original stashed on his hd, but if you need the first released version prior to its inclusion to DP you can grab it here:
http://www.scent-88....dpcbp/dpcbp.php

[Gambini]

Trooper Dan, on 26 November 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Is that the only thing that he did to it? Do you have a better version?

Yeah, at one point there was an argument with TX about why the hell he made the gridsize smaller and I pointed him that now the DPCB wasn´t editable anymore. Danm tried, probably to prevent the 3rd World War, to move it all to the new gridlimit using Lebuild, but this caused many texture misalignments (not only in the floors, many walls were affected too). I didn´t realize this until about a year later when wanted to play some DP maps again. The funny thing is that the previous version worked perfectly, it was just that mapster reported bugs on it that couldn´t be fixed (some sprites outside the valid area) but nothing that affected the player´s experience.

I´m attaching the last "estable" version. What Forge posted is no longer functional as it used the old ROR effect in Rigelblast´s part which later you fixed by using a showview sprite.

Attached File(s)

•  dpcbp.rar (170.47K)
  Number of downloads: 289

[The Commander]

Can't you just increase the grid size in the mapster cfg file or am I missing something here?

[Forge]

The Commander, on 27 November 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Can't you just increase the grid size in the mapster cfg file or am I missing something here?

no. that isn't an option. the grid size has been limited. you can punch in the old 524288 or what ever it was and it will default to the smaller current max size which will leave parts of the map off the grid.

the only option i see and i mentioned at the time was to use an old version of mapster with the large grid and drag the map over into the new limits

[Gambini]

I´m disoriented, all versions I had of dpcb today were built inside the grid. So either the change was reverted and the big grid is back or i just sent a broken copy of the map again

[Forge]

i'm using r4176 and it appears to accept the editorgridextent = 524288 line without defaulting to something smaller

[Helixhorned]

Yes, 524288 is the maximum maximum grid extent.

Gambini, on 27 November 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I´m attaching the last "estable" version.

Looks more or less fine to me, not counting the presumed texture misalignments you mentioned (I didn't check). The two out-of-grid sprites can be moved to their sector's first wall with corruptcheck tryfix. The overlong walls should be removed, as they can lead to glitches in classic. You have a couple of walls left, after all.

As for the texturing issue, moving the whole map by a sufficiently large power of two x or y offset should keep their ceiling/floor alignment unchanged, although I don't know for sure. It might be interesting to diff the various versions you mentioned, provided they haven't been altered in more significant ways. My "lunatic-aux" package has a utility to do that, but it's somewhat sparsely documented...

[DerKrieger85]

LeoD, on 22 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Dropping DukePlus into autoload is just wrong. Unzip the archive into your EDuke32 directory (You only need the DukePlus folder actually). In the startup window (I hope there is one on the Mac), choose DukePlus as the Custom game content directory.

I've tried this, both the DukePlus folder and the DukePlus Install folder, and its still not showing up in the custom game category in the startup window. I'm not sure what could be going wrong.

[neoacix]

Simple question:

How can I change the direction of a DP-Spawner?
Monsters get spawned in same direction no matter what the DP-Spawner angle is and the documentation says nothing about this.

So, can anyone help me with that?

[Gameplay Nut]

Hey DT, any chance of an update!? Duke+ Is brilliant, on of my favourite mods of all time, but as always I want more

-Leaning
-Aiming down the sights with alt fire for conventional weapons (as in Brutal Doom). Reassign reload to a unique key.
-Aim Assist bool in D+ menu (applies to mighty boot also) & headshot hitboxes added with minor multiplier. Or just hardcode aim assist off.
-Interactive objects deal minor damage on collision when thrown.
-Stamina system of Mighty Boot extended to Jumping, ledge grip duration and sprinting, all draining the same stamina reserve (optional bool)

I would suggest plenty more but I am intruding as it is.

[splitterface]

@gameplay nut
there is already an option to control auto-aim (which is how aim-assist used to be called) in the 'options' > 'player setup' menu in eduke32 itself

[neoacix]

So...

Is there nobody or no way to change direction of DP-Spawner? Realy?

[Danukem]

dpax, on 11 December 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Simple question:

How can I change the direction of a DP-Spawner?
Monsters get spawned in same direction no matter what the DP-Spawner angle is and the documentation says nothing about this.

So, can anyone help me with that?

When one sprite spawns another in Duke 3D, the child sprite will start out facing whatever angle its parent is facing. Since there is no code in the DP spawner to specify angle, the sprites it spawns should share its angle. So if you want a monster to spawn at a certain angle, just set the spawner sprite to that angle. That's the way it used to work, and if that's no longer the case, then there is something wrong. Keep in mind that most monsters have code that makes them turn to face the player once they become active, which will happen immediately if the player is in sight.

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 14 December 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Hey DT, any chance of an update!? Duke+ Is brilliant, on of my favourite mods of all time, but as always I want more

-Leaning
-Aiming down the sights with alt fire for conventional weapons (as in Brutal Doom). Reassign reload to a unique key.
-Aim Assist bool in D+ menu (applies to mighty boot also) & headshot hitboxes added with minor multiplier. Or just hardcode aim assist off.
-Interactive objects deal minor damage on collision when thrown.
-Stamina system of Mighty Boot extended to Jumping, ledge grip duration and sprinting, all draining the same stamina reserve (optional bool)

I would suggest plenty more but I am intruding as it is.

I'm glad you enjoy the mod. I seem to have entered a state of semi-retirement from modding, and I don't know when there will be another update. My life has gone through some major changes since I was actively modding, but I did play some Duke 3D on my new computer today, so it's still quite possible that I will return to the scene.

As for your suggestions:

-Leaning...the game has no stealth gameplay in the game mechanics or the maps, so I don't see how this feature would be useful by itself. Unless it is just a way for the player to be able to shoot at enemies without risk, in which case it would give an unfair advantage. Also I think the game already has a lot of keys that need to be assigned as it is.
-Iron sites...too much work to add because of the need for new weapon graphics. Unless I'm missing something.
-Aim assist...there is already the hardcoded auto-aim option. I don't really like the way it is implemented, but I don't want to add confusion by having my own separate system.
-Interactive objects already cause damage when thrown. The amount is a function of their mass and velocity (e.g. a lamp fired by the gravity gun should do a lot more damage than one tossed by hand). As far as I know this feature is working as intended.
-Stamina...I don't think players would want to voluntarily limit their stamina in additional ways. I can imagine someone making maps where the feature was forced on the player, but given my current state of semi-retirement, I think that's unlikely. The bottom line is that providing the option for players to limit their stamina would be work for me and probably would not add to the enjoyment of a significant number of players.

Sorry if I seem overly negative but those are my thoughts on the suggestions atm

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 23 December 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

-Leaning...the game has no stealth gameplay in the game mechanics or the maps, so I don't see how this feature would be useful by itself. Unless it is just a way for the player to be able to shoot at enemies without risk, in which case it would give an unfair advantage. Also I think the game already has a lot of keys that need to be assigned as it is.

Yeah, it is more of a freedom of control over Duke thing, the more control the better. There are other uses to lean than freedom and stealth but none really suitable for Duke. There are just basic movements that I believe should be standard for most action games, but it was kind of an unsuitable suggestion really.

Quote

-Iron sites...too much work to add because of the need for new weapon graphics. Unless I'm missing something.

Conventional weapons only- Pistol, Shotgun, MP5...well, and the laser blaster But yes, would require additional graphics.

Quote

-Interactive objects already cause damage when thrown. The amount is a function of their mass and velocity (e.g. a lamp fired by the gravity gun should do a lot more damage than one tossed by hand). As far as I know this feature is working as intended.

Gravity gun? Is that new? I played D+ about 1 and a half years ago. If not I am not sure how I missed that. Also does steroids increase throw velocity?

Quote

-Stamina...I don't think players would want to voluntarily limit their stamina in additional ways.

Nope, I would be one of few.

Quote

Sorry if I seem overly negative but those are my thoughts on the suggestions atm

Sorry for pestering you. Like I said I have more suggestions, some you may like, some you may not. Perhaps they can provide inspiration, just like D+ was one of many inspirations that lead to myself developing a mod.

[The Commander]

A lot of them suggestions sounds like you should be playing COD and not Duke...

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 27 December 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Gravity gun? Is that new? I played D+ about 1 and a half years ago. If not I am not sure how I missed that. Also does steroids increase throw velocity?

The gravity gun has been in Duke Plus since 2008. There's an option in the menu for it to replace the expander. It is featured heavily in the Project Zero map, as seen in this video, starting at 2:05

[Gameplay Nut]

The Commander, on 27 December 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

A lot of them suggestions sounds like you should be playing COD and not Duke...

Stamina, Leaning, these are not features exclusive to COD, let alone First Person games. The first FP game to feature these mechanics was System Shock (1994), and Duke+ already appears to (possibly) take inspiration from games of that type (Thief, Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld etc) since it has mantling, greater interactivity and such. I could be entirely wrong, it's just the impression I got.

Expansion to stamina would enforce more tactical gameplay and challenge, lean...well lean wouldn't do much for this specific game except add to the illusion of freedom, but I already admitted it was an unsuitable suggestion, well not exactly, as more freedom and control is always better is my philosophy, but it just wouldn't do anything in combat and duke is all about high speed combat.

As for aim down the sights, have you not played Brutal Doom yet? It is implemented in such a way that it only adds to the game, never detracts from running and gunning.

Headshot hitboxes and option to disable aim assist from D+ menu. To be against this is questionable, as it is all about precision shooting. And I am not talking about instakill headshots either, simply a 1.3 multiplier or something. Only argument against this from a player's POV is that it could make the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty setting, but since D+ is almost entirely toggleable bools, well there is no argument from a player's POV.

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

The gravity gun has been in Duke Plus since 2008. There's an option in the menu for it to replace the expander. It is featured heavily in the Project Zero map, as seen in this video, starting at 2:05

Cool. Strange that I missed that, or possibly planned to use it but was scared of not having the shrinker for the big bad brutes.

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Stamina, Leaning, these are not features exclusive to COD, let alone First Person games. The first FP game to feature these mechanics was System Shock (1994), and Duke+ already appears to (possibly) take inspiration from games of that type (Thief, Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld etc) since it has mantling, greater interactivity and such. I could be entirely wrong, it's just the impression I got.

In the old days, I was learning to code and I would add features without giving it much thought because I wanted to show what I could do. Some of that stuff came from an older, unreleased project that I called "Duke Ex", which was going to be like Deus Ex, but with even more realism. It was easy to justify rolling new features into Duke Plus when there were mappers who wanted to use them and I was having fun doing it. Mantling and some of the other features I added don't fit in well with the classic gameplay of Duke 3D, though. They can still be fun, especially in maps designed for them, but I'm not going to pretend that all the features in Duke Plus make a cohesive whole.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Headshot hitboxes and option to disable aim assist from D+ menu. To be against this is questionable, as it is all about precision shooting. And I am not talking about instakill headshots either, simply a 1.3 multiplier or something. Only argument against this from a player's POV is that it could make the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty setting, but since D+ is almost entirely toggleable bools, well there is no argument from a player's POV.

I would prefer headshots with the possibility of shooting heads clean off of enemies, like James added in AMC TC. But since Duke Plus is supposed to be HRP compatible, that would require including a set of headless HRP models, complete with dying animations. The other problem is, there isn't a good way of implementing hit boxes in Duke 3D. Also, the head positions in the sprites don't match up perfectly with those from the models. This was enough to make me reluctant to add the feature even when I was actively modding.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Cool. Strange that I missed that, or possibly planned to use it but was scared of not having the shrinker for the big bad brutes.

IIRC, the gravity gun replaces the expander, not the shrinker.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

In the old days, I was learning to code and I would add features without giving it much thought because I wanted to show what I could do. Some of that stuff came from an older, unreleased project that I called "Duke Ex", which was going to be like Deus Ex, but with even more realism. It was easy to justify rolling new features into Duke Plus when there were mappers who wanted to use them and I was having fun doing it. Mantling and some of the other features I added don't fit in well with the classic gameplay of Duke 3D, though. They can still be fun, especially in maps designed for them, but I'm not going to pretend that all the features in Duke Plus make a cohesive whole.

I disagree. Mantling is brilliant! For what reason do you believe it to not work well with Duke? Sure the original levels were not designed with mantling in mind, but it works perfectly nonetheless. I don't like that the ledge grab is automated though, should have to hold interact for deeper and more challenging platforming ...or this too to be an optional bool.

Quote

IIRC, the gravity gun replaces the expander, not the shrinker.

IIRC? Been that long eh?

Also, I do believe the features to make a cohesive whole because the majority of it is entirely optional so it can be as cohesive as the player wants it to be.
None of the features made me think "hang on, this does not belong in Duke at all". Sure you can set the knockback ridiculously high, among other things, but that's just for fun and you may as well add it for those who want to dick around. I kept it at the default, but it's all options and no player can argue with options if they are well implemented, which they were.

Fucking good job I say and I wish there were more modders that focused on gameplay enhancement.
Come back and mod old Duke further!

There is one solid suggestion I haven't requested yet. A cohesive one: http://www.moddb.com.../gmdx6#imagebox
Hardcore mode. Once chosen, as in my mod, certain options are no more. Save scumming is no longer possible, weapons have to be manually reloaded and the console cannot be accessed. It works wonders for those who seek a challenge.

[Micky C]

The problem with mantling is that it reduces the jump height of the player to compensate, which makes it a bit more cumbersome to get to higher places. Besides, in older maps which aren't designed for mantling, the feature is basically useless, or even worse, it allows the player to reach places which would normally be impossible to get to, which could break the atmosphere and progression of the map. When used properly it's pretty cool though.

But like Trooper Dan said, there are other mods and TCs out there that have these features. The AMC TC has headshots, ironsights, leaning, and stamina used in various ways. Considering that you haven't mentioned it in any of your posts I can infer that you've never played it, in which case you should absolutely try it out since it sounds like you'll love the features. WGRealms 2 also has some pretty cool headshots but none of the other features you mentioned. Note that these are Total Conversions and make a few changes to the game's core gameplay.

[Gameplay Nut]

Plain Simple Garek, on 28 December 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

But like Trooper Dan said, there are other mods and TCs out there that have these features. The AMC TC has headshots, ironsights, leaning, and stamina used in various ways. Considering that you haven't mentioned it in any of your posts I can infer that you've never played it, in which case you should absolutely try it out since it sounds like you'll love the features. WGRealms 2 also has some pretty cool headshots but none of the other features you mentioned. Note that these are Total Conversions and make a few changes to the game's core gameplay.

! added AMC TC to backlog but with high priority listing.

As for mantling, more specifically the word "cumbersome", I disagree. it just works. It could be really damn good in maps designed for it, but I enjoyed it in the main game regardless. I cannot argue with it allowing you to break original map flow though. I never found such instances but I'll take your word for it.

Still, D+ is great as it is. And mantling is an option, so no harm done

Edit: Wait, "get to higher players". I see, you are talking about multiplayer. Yeah, I can see how that would be a problem. I am a SP-centric guy. Still enjoy MP from time to time but SP is primary for me.

[Micky C]

Hmm I actually did mean places, it must've been a Freudian slip. Dukeplus doesn't work with the old multiplayer because it gets out of sync, and I'm not sure about the upcoming improved multiplayer but chances are it would take some work to get it working in that.

[Danukem]

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

It's ~1.8 secs in total if you immediately pull up. lets say 3 minutes total on average across the whole duke campaign is spent mantling.
It fits in perfectly fine. however It would do a lot for gameplay if you had to manually ledge grab.
Another benefit is it removes the annoying but minor quirk of old school platforming, that is not being able to jump up on something unless you can get the base of your player character up there. With mantling you only need for your waist (or whatever) to be within proximity of a ledge to be able to climb up.
Additionally that time spent mantling is something to consider tactfully in combat if you are getting shot in the ass before you jump.
You're right though, as it stands it doesn't add a whole lot to the experience, I can understand why you would not add it if you could turn back time/made a Return to Castle Wolfenstien+ or something, but I only see it as an overall benefit really. it's benefits are minor but they are benefits nonetheless.

[Danukem]

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

It's ~1.8 secs in total if you immediately pull up. lets say 3 minutes total on average across the whole duke campaign is spent mantling.

Admittedly that doesn't sound too bad, but in maps (particularly user maps) with jumping puzzles, it is quite a departure from the normal fast-paced gameplay. But if you want to talk about DP features that really change the game, I think the pokeball option wins the prize.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

It fits in perfectly fine. however It would do a lot for gameplay if you had to manually ledge grab.

But then people would have to remember to hold the use key and they would think the game is broken because they wouldn't know. It would be very easy to add that feature but I don't want to deal with the confusion at this point.

Gameplay Nut, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Another benefit is it removes the annoying but minor quirk of old school platforming, that is not being able to jump up on something unless you can get the base of your player character up there. With mantling you only need for your waist (or whatever) to be within proximity of a ledge to be able to climb up.

Yes that's the main reason I added it in conjunction with lowered jumping height. I can accept a lot of unrealistic things in old shooters, but being able to jump 3 meters straight upwards yet not be able to climb onto a surface unless your feet land on it is hard to accept.

The other reason I added it is because Duke's default jump is not only ridiculously high, but it lacks normal physics. It's as if he is hitting a ceiling and then something is pushing him back down. The shorter jump, on the other hand, works correctly.

[Gameplay Nut]

Trooper Dan, on 29 December 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

But then people would have to remember to hold the use key and they would think the game is broken because they wouldn't know. It would be very easy to add that feature but I don't want to deal with the confusion at this point.

Optional bool. False by default. Help/description text appearing alongside if need be.

Now I am pestering

Quote

The other reason I added it is because Duke's default jump is not only ridiculously high, but it lacks normal physics. It's as if he is hitting a ceiling and then something is pushing him back down. The shorter jump, on the other hand, works correctly.

Heh, yeah. Been a while since I played vanilla Duke but I remember that quite clearly now.

[DavoX]

Trooper Dan, on 28 December 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

By the way, when I said that mantling and some of the other features in DukePlus don't fit in well with classic gameplay, I didn't mean that the new features are broken. They work fine, but they still don't really fit in. Mantling slows the game down a bit because you have to keep stopping on ledges, grunting and pulling yourself up. Also, it's a bit arbitrary. Why have realistic mantling when 90% of the rest of the game is still unrealistic? I'm not saying it's bad, but I probably wouldn't code it again today unless it was part of a TC with a bunch of other features that were all designed to go together to create a realistic atmosphere.

Like Freerunner?

[supergoofy]

EDuke32 r4237 freezes when launched with DukePlus

EDuke32 r4096 works fine with DukePlus (including the 64bit binary by LeoD)

I don't know if this bug is related to SDL 2.0x implementation (currently 2.01 is used with r4237)