[Lava Grunt]

Just as the title says. I recently noticed that, regardless of the choice of auto aim (off, on, hitscan only) these two weapons still seem to follow it to some extent, making every shot perfectly accurate, even at extreme ranges, if you simply aim at the monster. Is there any way to disable this feature?

[Hendricks266]

The current "off" behavior is intentional (shots always hit if you aim correctly) so that Dukematch players are not unfairly disadvantaged by randomness if they play with autoaim off. Since you brought it up, I supposed the current "off" should be renamed "skill-based" or similar and a true off added as a fourth choice.

[Lava Grunt]

Hendricks266, on 02 April 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

The current "off" behavior is intentional (shots always hit if you aim correctly) so that Dukematch players are not unfairly disadvantaged by randomness if they play with autoaim off. Since you brought it up, I supposed the current "off" should be renamed "skill-based" or similar and a true off added as a fourth choice.

That would be pretty great, thanks for considering.

[Never Forgotten]

I have a question... how do you turn the freakin' thing off? I've been playing Duke 3D for years now and I haven't found out how to turn it off.

[TerminX]

Hendricks266, on 02 April 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

The current "off" behavior is intentional (shots always hit if you aim correctly) so that Dukematch players are not unfairly disadvantaged by randomness if they play with autoaim off. Since you brought it up, I supposed the current "off" should be renamed "skill-based" or similar and a true off added as a fourth choice.

No, don't add that. The pistol and expander don't auto aim when the option is disabled, the shot spread is nullified if a hitscan with zero spread fired from the player hits the enemy. This is about as close to maintaining the game's original weapon balance as possible.

[Lava Grunt]

TerminX, on 03 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

No, don't add that. The pistol and expander don't auto aim when the option is disabled, the shot spread is nullified if a hitscan with zero spread fired from the player hits the enemy. This is about as close to maintaining the game's original weapon balance as possible.

Why? It would be optional. If it was supposed to only be perfectly accurate then why did they leave spread in for when you aren't aiming at a monster? The perfect accuracy seems incredibly cheap to me, requiring no real skill or risk to use the weapon. Just plop your ass down from a mile away and hold mouse 1, instead of getting closer to the enemy.

[Hendricks266]

TerminX, on 03 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

This is about as close to maintaining the game's original weapon balance as possible.

The original game had hitscan on and hitscan off, and we no longer offer the latter with regard to the pistol and expander. I think that's a problem.

[TerminX]

The maps are balanced so that liztroops are killed in about 4-5 pistol shots from a variety of distances. By default, the pistol has quite a bit of spread, but this spread is completely negated in the original game by the auto-aim--the original code is special cased so that the pistol only applies spread if the function that finds an auto-aim target doesn't find one. Conversely, the shotgun and chaingun both apply their spread unconditionally.

So, yes, it was absolutely intended for the pistol to have no spread when shooting enemies, and that's the behavior EDuke32 exhibits. Anything else would only serve to gimp the weapon and unbalance the gameplay. Using the pistol with auto-aim off still requires you to aim.

[Hendricks266]

Hendricks266, on 03 April 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

The original game had hitscan on and hitscan off,

I forgot that the original game did not have a toggle for autoaim at all. So you are correct.

[Lava Grunt]

TerminX, on 03 April 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

The maps are balanced so that liztroops are killed in about 4-5 pistol shots from a variety of distances. By default, the pistol has quite a bit of spread, but this spread is completely negated in the original game by the auto-aim--the original code is special cased so that the pistol only applies spread if the function that finds an auto-aim target doesn't find one. Conversely, the shotgun and chaingun both apply their spread unconditionally.

So, yes, it was absolutely intended for the pistol to have no spread when shooting enemies, and that's the behavior EDuke32 exhibits. Anything else would only serve to gimp the weapon and unbalance the gameplay. Using the pistol with auto-aim off still requires you to aim.

But having the pistol shots spread when you aren't aiming at a monster is pretty inconsistent. If it was one hundred percent accurate in all scenarios, I wouldn't mind. Looks like it's just too varied for me to able to enjoy the game.

[Hendricks266]

onevent EVENT_GETSHOTRANGE

    ifvare player[THISACTOR].curr_weapon PISTOL_WEAPON
    {
        setvar ANGRANGE 0
        setvar ZRANGE 0
    }

endevent

[Lava Grunt]

I don't know what to do with this. I've messed around with (G)ZDoom mods here and there, but I don't see the point in messing around trying to get a certain mechanic a port doesn't offer. It's doesn't feel like I would be making a mod, it feels like adding an option to a port that (IMO) should have already been there.

[Hendricks266]

Lava Grunt, on 03 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I've messed around with (G)ZDoom mods here and there, but I don't see the point in messing around trying to get a certain mechanic a port doesn't offer.

The point is that:

Lava Grunt, on 03 April 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

If it was one hundred percent accurate in all scenarios, I wouldn't mind. Looks like it's just too varied for me to able to enjoy the game.

Considering you already:

Lava Grunt, on 02 April 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Is there a USER.CON for the expansions or a way to set it up the regular one for the expansions? The only thing I use it for is changing the devastator (devistator for some reason in the file) and freezethrower ammo to 100 instead of the arbitrary 99.

Since, contrary to:

Lava Grunt, on 03 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

It's doesn't feel like I would be making a mod, it feels like adding an option to a port that (IMO) should have already been there.

There is no point to adding a "crapify the pistol" option.

[Lava Grunt]

Hey, if you like inconsistent gameplay, then more power to you. I just hate certain arbitrary pointless mechanics such as that since it detracts a lot of the immersion for me.

[TerminX]

If the game mechanics of Duke Nukem 3D bother you, don't play Duke Nukem 3D...?

The pistol in Duke Nukem 3D is oddly accurate when aiming at enemies, just like the chaingun in Doom is oddly accurate when tapping fire instead of holding it down. Every game has its unique quirks and properties. I can't support introducing an option that does nothing but cripple the weapon you start with, nor can I support introducing an option that makes the pistol pin-point accurate in all cases, as that would alter the gameplay in relation to shooting buttons and decorative sprites.

[Lava Grunt]

Doom's bullet weapon mechanics (bullet as in ammo type not shells) felt right though. Tapping instead of holding down the fire button to make perfectly accurate, long distance shots? Good stuff, feels right. Aim at a wall or anything else that isn't out for your blood, and suddenly your pistol has spread akin to it being banged against a wall a few dozen times? What.

[Hendricks266]

Wikipedia: Suspension of disbelief

If you don't like that the pistol behaves differently when you're wasting ammo firing at walls, then you're in for a hell of a conundrum once you descend down the vent off the E1L1 rooftop to find that a movie theater is connected to only two streets that dead-end within one block.

[Lava Grunt]

Makes more sense than a fickle pistol.

[TerminX]

Clearly, Duke's pistol features an advanced compensating stabilizer that operates by projecting a beam of infrared and UV light toward any potential targets. A sensor detects the unique absorption/reflection of the light on alien materials and activates the compensator, which upon firing jerks the pistol in the direction opposite of the kick to keep the muzzle on target. The compensator is mounted to the bottom of the barrel, you can't miss it!

It's from the makers of the explodo-molar.

[Mark]

Oh... a wise guy eh?

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Lava Grunt]

TerminX, on 04 April 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clearly, Duke's pistol features an advanced compensating stabilizer that operates by projecting a beam of infrared and UV light toward any potential targets. A sensor detects the unique absorption/reflection of the light on alien materials and activates the compensator, which upon firing jerks the pistol in the direction opposite of the kick to keep the muzzle on target. The compensator is mounted to the bottom of the barrel, you can't miss it!

It's from the makers of the explodo-molar.

Does Duke by his equipment from Mann Co. or something? Only they can produce weapons so fucky that purists can get behind.

[Sixty Four]

Duke doesn't buy weapons... ever. He hand crafted them himself and he doesn't care if they are fit for you as long as they blast aliens to hell

[Lava Grunt]

Better yet, halve the current spread when you don't hit something living so it's more reasonable, and then remove auto aim so you still have something capable of pretty good accuracy but not perfect so you can use it as some sort of retarded sniper pistol.

[XThX2]

All this time you were complaining about a built-in feature, you could change it with a simple mod (Hendricks even supplied you with the necessary code to do it). These requests of yours are exactly the same as making a mod for Doom where the tapping precision of pistol and chaingun are removed. It's surprising considering you said you've messed with ZDoom mods too, and yet you are reluctant to even do this. I don't see Doom supplying you with "here's a toggle to turn off the tap precision, because why not?". Feature is a feature, learn to embrace it, or mod it away.

[Lava Grunt]

You guys just don't get it. Fine, I'll say it again.

I'm looking for a way to nullify the perfect accuracy bullshit for at least the pistol while keeping the original spread, perhaps even tightening it a tad. Nothing more, nothing less.

XThX2, on 06 April 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

All this time you were complaining about a built-in feature, you could change it with a simple mod (Hendricks even supplied you with the necessary code to do it). These requests of yours are exactly the same as making a mod for Doom where the tapping precision of pistol and chaingun are removed. It's surprising considering you said you've messed with ZDoom mods too, and yet you are reluctant to even do this. I don't see Doom supplying you with "here's a toggle to turn off the tap precision, because why not?". Feature is a feature, learn to embrace it, or mod it away.

I don't know the language EDuke uses for it's mods, or it's file setup or any of that. I had no idea what the hell a CON file was, so I'd say it deviates a good deal from modding (G)ZDoom. Same rough application in concept? I guess. But I've only tweaked stuff that already felt fleshed out, or something that already had an interesting base to work with, something I thought a nearly two decade old game would have already have had a mod for. Doom's tapping mechanic was perfect and didn't feel out of place. You were firing slower in order to land those accurate shots. In DN3D, it's more or less the opposite. Your cross hairs touch the monster, it hits. Every time. Any shot the doesn't hit will deviate from the firing origin. This is pretty inconsistent with the nature of the pistol, the way it functions.

[Striker]

THIS. ISN'T. (GZ)DOOM.

Of course it's going to deviate from modding it, because it isn't even remotely close to the Doom Engine.

[Danukem]

When making a weapons mod or TC, it is kind of annoying that the pistol weapon slot has that feature. I can't think of any way to get rid of it in CON without using a weird hack (and I mean weird even by Duke standards).

[TerminX]

Trooper Dan, on 18 April 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

When making a weapons mod or TC, it is kind of annoying that the pistol weapon slot has that feature. I can't think of any way to get rid of it in CON without using a weird hack (and I mean weird even by Duke standards).

Just create a new hitscan projectile without the PROJECTILE_ACCURATE_AUTOAIM flag set.

[Helixhorned]

Hendricks266, on 03 April 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

onevent EVENT_GETSHOTRANGE

    ifvare player[THISACTOR].curr_weapon PISTOL_WEAPON
    {
        setvar ANGRANGE 0
        setvar ZRANGE 0
    }

endevent

^ These ones determine spread. What the OP asked for as far as I can tell is to disable the automatic detection of a hitscan target when aiming slightly off. The solution is similar:

onevent EVENT_GETAUTOAIMANGLE
    ifvare player[THISACTOR].curr_weapon PISTOL_WEAPON
        setvar AUTOAIMANGLE 0
endevent

[Helixhorned]

TerminX, on 18 April 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Just create a new hitscan projectile without the PROJECTILE_ACCURATE_AUTOAIM flag set.

This is not as easy as it sounds. The main problem with the custom projectile system is that the hard-coded projectiles are not implemented in terms of it, but rather as separate, stand-alone code. In fact, before I replied, I tried to recreate SHOTSPARK1 (the projectile that gets spawned for the pistol) behavior without PROJECTILE_ACCURATE_AUTOAIM. Here's the unfinished result:

defineprojectile SHOTSPARK1 PROJ_WORKSLIKE 1  // NOTE: w/o PROJECTILE_ACCURATE_AUTOAIM

// See A_Spawn()/BULLETHOLE__STATIC:
defineprojectile SHOTSPARK1 PROJ_XREPEAT 3
defineprojectile SHOTSPARK1 PROJ_YREPEAT 3

For some reason, such a projectile will kill troopers with one shot.

The issue is that you have to look at player.c code in order to figure out PROJ_* settings for your custom projectiles; there's no way to say "my custom (or overwritten) projectile shall have all properties of hard-coded projectile X", and then build from that.