[ck3D]

I don't know, I feel like a slimer would be too on-the-nose.

[ck3D]

Pre-release footage of Zero Hour and of the Duke Nukem Game Boy Color game, may or may not be rare for all I know:

[Fantinaikos]

I trust we are fulfilled persons who passed all stages and don't need to find any special kind of amusement outside the ludic in a bunch of unreal and pixelat-

[OpenMaw]

Why are we censoring titties that already have tassels covering the naughty bit? LOL. That voxel is done really well. Clever use of the sprite of the stripper from behind to fill in all the details.


Anyway, here's a pretty recent Grabbag. I hope this guy does a longer version, because this sounds surprisingly kick ass:

[ck3D]

[Fantinaikos]

I didn't expect a proplay video about that...


And here the latest update from Chello's DN3D voxels, why not.

[Ninety-Six]

There's nowhere else to put this so I'd just like to self-incriminate that only now, nearly 30 years since I first played it, I only just understood why the Acme tiles kept falling in the first game.

[Aleks]

Ninety-Six, on 13 January 2025 - 11:17 AM, said:

There's nowhere else to put this so I'd just like to self-incriminate that only now, nearly 30 years since I first played it, I only just understood why the Acme tiles kept falling in the first game.

On the contrary, this might have been the only single reference I actually did understand as a kid.

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 14 January 2025 - 11:16 AM, said:

On the contrary, this might have been the only single reference I actually did understand as a kid.

For me, I recognized the Acme reference in of itself, but did not mentally link it to why it was falling. In my brain they were two separate things in the same way a piece of floor could be gray ground or a nuclear waste barrel.

It was a block decorated with the Acme name.

This block falls.


And for 30 years that was all there was to it. Was only just yesterday where it hit me out of the blue "OH RIGHT BECAUSE ACME MAKES CRAP."

Yeah it was one of those fridge epiphanies. I suppose it just never occurred to me that those blocks weren't supposed to fall.

[MrFlibble]

Alright, I'll be super honest, I never thought that ACME signs were a reference to anything (but I'm notoriously bad at picking references anyway), so would you please explain?

I looked up the Wikipedia disambiguation page for "Acme" and Acme Corporation sounds like a plausible candidate, is that it?

[Dr.Panico]

MrFlibble, on 19 January 2025 - 02:25 AM, said:

Alright, I'll be super honest, I never thought that ACME signs were a reference to anything (but I'm notoriously bad at picking references anyway), so would you please explain?

I looked up the Wikipedia disambiguation page for "Acme" and Acme Corporation sounds like a plausible candidate, is that it?

That's pretty much it. ACME is a company infamous for making products that serve for some good slapstick comedy.

[VGames]

Looney Tunes reference. Wiley Coyote was a big ACME customer

[OpenMaw]

Uploaded an old mock up fan trailer for Duke Nukem as a movie. This is by Robodan from the early 2000s, probably 2002-2003 if I remember right. Robodan also had an excellent AVP trailer he cut together using the audio from the Final Fantasy Spirits Within trailer. Good stuff.

[OpenMaw]

Today, this one went live:

[ck3D]

I only just put two and two together about this because I wouldn't know the first thing about rockets, but it seems like the Launch Facility one is (to an extent at least) based of the Saturn V?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

Interesting how it is specifically engineered for lunar missions, so now I wonder whether and how much Launch Facility may have once been started as a possible transition level between L.A. Meltdown and Lunar Apocalypse but got scrapped as such. E.g.. I could imagine that very early on as the episodes were still being conceived and before it would make better sense (and flow) to start E2 right into Spaceport. I mean it always sort of felt like it anyway just based on theme and story beat, but that's another point for that theory.

This version with the shuttle also is funny: https://upload.wikim...Hazy_Center.jpg because the shuttle looks a bit like the prop one that is in the Duke tileset.

(Also just learned that the checkerboard motifs on rockets originally was to be able to better study trajectory of experimental models on video footage - fun fact. And so it is quite amazing that ended up impacting possible floor texture choice throughout the history of Duke 3D user maps.)

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 02 January 2026 - 04:08 PM, said:

I only just put two and two together about this because I wouldn't know the first thing about rockets, but it seems like the Launch Facility one is (to an extent at least) based of the Saturn V?

More or less, yeah.

ck3D, on 02 January 2026 - 04:08 PM, said:

Interesting how it is specifically engineered for lunar missions, so now I wonder whether and how much Launch Facility may have once been started as a possible transition level between L.A. Meltdown and Lunar Apocalypse but got scrapped as such. E.g.. I could imagine that very early on as the episodes were still being conceived and before it would make better sense (and flow) to start E2 right into Spaceport. I mean it always sort of felt like it anyway just based on theme and story beat, but that's another point for that theory.

I've always wondered this myself, and the lack of such transitional maps always bugged me, too. DN3D wasn't like its contemporaries in this regard, where each episode was essentially starting at just about the same moment the previous one ended, maybe take a rappel or two. Even 3DR/DoIP's own earlier ROTT strung episodes together like that. But DN3D had not just large distances but clear gaps of time between episodes as well, gaps in which plenty of action could have definitely taken place.

About the only game of the era I can think of that even comes close is Wolf3D, but even in that case transitional levels weren't really even possible as due to engine limitations every episode could only happen inside Nazi castles and forts. DN3D, of course, had no such technical restriction, so the absence is a bit more tangible.


Although, thinking about it, I suppose the first Duke Nukem game was also sort of like this in that regard (DN2 took the standard approach of stringing episodes together end-to-end). Though that said, the plots of each episode were a bit more self-contained, rather than installments of an ongoing invasion. You beat Proton's forces out of the occupied city and back to his hideout then kicked his ass there, to which he fled to his lunar headquarters. The attack was over, so then E2 was putting Proton on the backstep as you assaulted his base. In episode 3 Proton is straight-up on the run. All this to say, there wasn't any implied further violence between episodes or even room for it, whereas in 3D, it would be weird if Duke didn't need to roast some alien barbecue on the way to the launch pad or on his way back to Earth.

ck3D, on 02 January 2026 - 04:08 PM, said:

(Also just learned that the checkerboard motifs on rockets originally was to be able to better study trajectory of experimental models on video footage - fun fact. And so it is quite amazing that ended up impacting possible floor texture choice throughout the history of Duke 3D user maps.)

Is that actually the only time that texture appears in the original levels....?

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 03 January 2026 - 12:49 AM, said:

Is that actually the only time that texture appears in the original levels....?

As far as I'm aware, it never was used in any other way in the base game until The Birth, where a certain (new) level designer then used it as a floor tile in a couple of maps. Honestly, it isn't a bad pick per se, despite the tile being so low res, but it is amusing to me since because it is so naturally tempting to just use as plain floors (like a lot of user mappers do) it is almost too easy a go-to and so most of the time to me just screams 'no style' whenever I see it used as such without any attempt at a justification (including in my own maps, obviously). It just is such a strong 50/50 motif it should deserve to be reserved to super strong exceptional use in my opinion and/or be incorporated into something grander than a flat floor (that will now look half pitch black, great) even if that is just slightly more ambitious visual designs, or a cool unique room theme. Otherwise there always is a dozen or two better, and actual floor tiles in the texture set, including the E4 grey/beige one that always will be a better pick because now those are colors you can actually echo around the room/settings (and I normally am not a huge defender of E4 textures). The base Duke 3D palette being what it is, those black and white patches can only reverbate one another and so that means in most every environment you use them in, they will draw all of the attention (and all the more so if scaled down). Something to be aware of.

About the episodic format of Duke 3D: it also always felt more like an extension of the Duke Nukem 1 formula to me for the reason you mentioned, whereas the different bits of the sequel seem more akin to chapters and divisions of one big adventure or self-contained story like you said. The former is closer to a mini TV series where every part is its own new thing, whereas DN2 would be more like just one blockbuster action movie that is punctuated with some occasional reprieve under the form of ad breaks. I wouldn't bet it must have been a conscious decision to shape the progression of the third game specifically this or that way, though; again I love my speculations, but with levels such as Launch Facility and Freeway (and some of the work in Lunar Apocalypse) I often get the feeling Blum in particular was genuinely excited about the possibilities of the engine to where spontaneously he would have produced a lot of technical material early on, that then had to be reorganized once the game actually started to form and with it the concerns of performance, organization and flow. That impression I have must be because of how early, proficient and experimental he was with maps from LameDuke dev (where he got a sense for scale and dynamic effects first thing) onto E2 (which has the most technical levels in the base game, despite them being older than most others, and where now Blum is actually applying - and not just learning - the science of the tool). I don't know - to me, his work feels like someone got genuinely obsessed with Build for a bit - not just as a gig - and played around with it so explosively, it resulted in so many possible levels and chunks of levels that for the most part just happened, around given story beats but otherwise generally conceptual for the most part; and then just had to be distillated into a game, alongside Levelord's work (which you can tell must have come a bit later for they generally feel more intended to advance or resolve the plot a specific way, e.g.. Abyss).

[Reaper_Man]

Ninety-Six, on 03 January 2026 - 12:49 AM, said:

Is that actually the only time that texture appears in the original levels....?

Funny you ask about that specific texture, I remember a few years back using a script to count usage of it when I was working on making textures.

Quote

The black and white checker texture, tilenum 414, is only used 43 times. It's only used 15 times in Launch Facility, I'd have to go back through and see where else it gets used. EDIT: Looks like the other uses are a couple exterior walls in E2L3, floors in the mess hall in E4L1, and in a few places (such as the start) as floors inside the grocery store in E4L3.

The yellow and gray tiles, tilenum 720, isn't used at all in the retail maps.

https://forums.duke4...post__p__375268

[ck3D]

Reaper_Man, on 03 January 2026 - 06:32 AM, said:

The yellow and gray tiles, tilenum 720, isn't used at all in the retail maps.

That is a scrapped E1L2 dance floor, got canned along the way as well as the "dressing room" sign (also never used in the final) which also was intended for E1L2 until said dressing room for the strippers got cut, leaving no use for the sign.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 03 January 2026 - 02:26 AM, said:

but with levels such as Launch Facility and Freeway (and some of the work in Lunar Apocalypse)

Why Freeway, specifically?

ck3D, on 03 January 2026 - 08:12 AM, said:

That is a scrapped E1L2 dance floor, got canned along the way as well as the "dressing room" sign (also never used in the final) which also was intended for E1L2 until said dressing room for the strippers got cut, leaving no use for the sign.

I wonder if the floor was cut before or after the club had the red/blue strobe lighting.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 03 January 2026 - 09:14 AM, said:

Why Freeway, specifically?



I wonder if the floor was cut before or after the club had the red/blue strobe lighting.

Freeway to me feels like testing grounds for and/or a demonstration of large scale sector over sector, the layout of it is impeccably rudimentary (and efficient) and just executes the concept that is the level twisting onto itself perfectly, following the form of a 4. Simple idea, great functionality. The layout is the theme and as such it doesn't really insert itself anywhere specific in the story, it doesn't serve a specific beat, feeling more like something early Blum would have built for practice/fun, that ended up finding its way in because it is a genuinely cool level. I suspect a lot of his material was the result of such bursts (including the other experiment that was LameDuke L6 later getting split and used in bits), and then once a space themed episode was decided for good, the abstraction that comes with such territory probably lent itself quite well to executing concepts first, then finding plot relevance later, too. Funnily enough E2 feels like it received special attention in order to present like an immersive story of its own, and one that would be memorable, but when studying the levels it is obvious every single one is a unique concept and the space theme really is a convenient way to sell dynamics that wouldn't feel credible in a supposedly grounded, e.g.. city, map. But they are strung together with great flow (and there are many of them) and so it feels like it is making sense whatever it is Duke is following.

One would have to ask TerminX to be sure but I think the dressing room was cut relatively late in development, while the bar received many different iterations and then alterations throughout and IIRC the version with the colored checkerboard dance floor was one of the earliest takes. Maybe that's incorrect, but that's how I interpreted the screenshots that were released.

[dnskill]

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 03 January 2026 - 11:05 AM, said:

The layout is the theme and as such it doesn't really insert itself anywhere specific in the story, it doesn't serve a specific beat, feeling more like something early Blum would have built for practice/fun, that ended up finding its way in because it is a genuinely cool level.

One of the benefits to being a secret level, I suppose. It's not bound by such typical restrictions.

ck3D, on 03 January 2026 - 11:05 AM, said:

and then once a space themed episode was decided for good

I dunno, it always seemed like there was meant to be a space episode. Of all the versions, I don't know of one where a space-focused chapter didn't exist. In the earliest versions it always seemed to kick off the events too, I suppose as a natural extension of DN2's ending. I guess DN3D was always meant to pick up immediately after 2.

ck3D, on 03 January 2026 - 11:05 AM, said:

the abstraction that comes with such territory probably lent itself quite well to executing concepts first, then finding plot relevance later, too. Funnily enough E2 feels like it received special attention in order to present like an immersive story of its own, and one that would be memorable, but when studying the levels it is obvious every single one is a unique concept and the space theme really is a convenient way to sell dynamics that wouldn't feel credible in a supposedly grounded, e.g.. city, map. But they are strung together with great flow (and there are many of them) and so it feels like it is making sense whatever it is Duke is following.

I still hold the unpopular opinion that Lunar Apocalypse is the best episode of the original set, and the most necessary grounding (ironic as that seems) of the game.

dnskill, on 03 January 2026 - 04:46 PM, said:

-snip-

In July it will also be the 35th anniversary of the King himself.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 03 January 2026 - 07:48 PM, said:

I dunno, it always seemed like there was meant to be a space episode. Of all the versions, I don't know of one where a space-focused chapter didn't exist. In the earliest versions it always seemed to kick off the events too, I suppose as a natural extension of DN2's ending. I guess DN3D was always meant to pick up immediately after 2.

You are right and I misspoke, I should have said defined instead of decided - I didn't exactly mean a space episode is an idea that came up late. The way I always saw it personally is, E2 is a direct echo to E2 Mission Moonbase in DN1, and the pacing of the player's journey in D3D in general is quite 1:1 with the progression in DN1, as though it were some kind of parallel universe-type retelling of that game, following the same patterns (Earth/Moon/alternate Earth - of the future in DN1, post invasion in 3D) and just against different antagonists, plus with extra sauce (the '3D', the babes, etc.), and to an extent the direct tie to the platformers always seemed important to the direction (as in, it never even seemed a question to deny the whole series). In the end, we get what feels like some kind of canonical reboot (epochs before actual reboots), and as such it is left uncertain what exactly is old and what exactly is new in the third entry; obviously most of it actually is brand new, but there are enough references to old (not just the intro but also the presence of slimers and turrets throughout, etc.) to obfuscate that and as a result the game only clashes with its two predecessors so much (enough to instill callbacks, not enough to break the identity of the franchise - which one could argue was just a few steps ahead seeing what happened just years later with the slippery slope of the console games and then DNF).

What I really meant is it is a bit mysterious trying to pinpoint the exact timeline of E2 dev, I would assume the actual story and composition of D3D's E2 probably came later than some of the map material itself just like E1 and E3 notoriously feature a lot of scrapped bits, and that a lot of individual room/area cores must have been thrown down early - space theme would make that easy to do with no strings attached, just crafting intricate structures and paths that would then become assets. But then the way everything is coherently reassembled and rearranged in the final product must mean that second phase of the mapping (I would imagine once the shareware E1 out of the way, schedule and focus) must have been some crazy work in itself and involved more than basic chopping and cutting (which is what the cities received), there must have been some copious effort including lots of new design spent until late in dev in order to credibilize those assets as singular levels first, and then integrate those into what would become a plot. Maybe it wasn't so much of an issue since Blum is a co-writer of the character and so must have had rather on-point ideas from the get-go about the direction and I wouldn't be surprised if he had weighed in on, or even dictated all of the story in E2 also in a way that it would align with the material he had been producing. But it feels like E2 really was polished throughout all of dev, and took a lot more work than E1 (also the product of a similar effort, but lesser), and then by the time of E3 everyone must have been rinsed and so that one was just a stint and mostly on Levelord to secure (and he did great).

Ninety-Six, on 03 January 2026 - 07:48 PM, said:

I still hold the unpopular opinion that Lunar Apocalypse is the best episode of the original set, and the most necessary grounding (ironic as that seems) of the game.

It clearly is the most technical one as far as mapping (some areas like the bank puzzle in E3 would come in second, and E1 is all very basic except for the alien ship climax), and I would say the true core of the game. I think the reason why it is so stigmatized is most people were too scared to play it as kids (it is eerie) and so they hate it all the while really knowing not so much about it, since they could never get in. They really resent having being denied access, but not everything is meant for everyone. On the other hand, E1 and E3 cities are a lot more relatable and reassuring environments to average fish in a small pond. Therefore, true Duke Nukem die-hards (so, supposedly brave enough) logically should prefer E2.

I have this longtime theory of mine that sentry drones must have been meant to receive better pathfinding code than what they did in order to navigate around all of the E2 maps, by the way, but I've probably posted about it before somewhere. Their placement and behavior makes mostly no sense in those levels (except for maybe two moments) and so they are just mindless traps in the released product, but studying exactly how 1/ interwoven all the 2D map layouts are and 2/ exactly the enemies are set up around the corners, I think they were meant to guard whole regions of levels and actually chase Duke around the given network of corridors/vents/rooms in a way that would be more 'on rails', instead of freefloating and struggling with walls the way they do - think 'moving barriers'. That would also explain why their armor is strong (HP moderately high), so that whenever the player would be spotted by them they would feel invited to enter cat and mouse/hide and seek mode rather than confrontation (unless stocked up and prepared). I am quite certain that just giving them new pathfinding code (and maybe even making them bullet proof; rockets would still work the way they do... so, hardly) would suffice not just to fix what is an obvious problem but also give E2 a functional dimension that seems to exist but so far be broken.

But space map in general is the most difficult theme too. Way closer to actual engineering than cities or open environments where you can just freestyle shapes out and as long as it has the correct texture the effect will work. Space theme takes a certain ability to comprehend 3D space (no pun intended) and all kinds of placement within it at all times (of the player, of the floors, of the rooms, etc. all relative to one another), if there is one aspect the mapper doesn't master it will show. Whereas city map planning is a lot more simple (not every building is full of coherently placed rooms, etc.) and there are many immediate solutions to any slight trouble whilst designing them. But good luck salvaging an entire space station once you've already built it wrong. It is possible if you have to do it, but knowing how to make the same swinging door a hundred times won't be what saves your ass.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 04 January 2026 - 01:53 AM, said:

You are right and I misspoke, I should have said defined instead of decided - I didn't exactly mean a space episode is an idea that came up late. The way I always saw it personally is, E2 is a direct echo to E2 Mission Moonbase in DN1, and the pacing of the player's journey in D3D in general is quite 1:1 with the progression in DN1, as though it were some kind of parallel universe-type retelling of that game, following the same patterns (Earth/Moon/alternate Earth - of the future in DN1, post invasion in 3D) and just against different antagonists, plus with extra sauce (the '3D', the babes, etc.), and to an extent the direct tie to the platformers always seemed important to the direction (as in, it never even seemed a question to deny the whole series). In the end, we get what feels like some kind of canonical reboot (epochs before actual reboots), and as such it is left uncertain what exactly is old and what exactly is new in the third entry; obviously most of it actually is brand new, but there are enough references to old (not just the intro but also the presence of slimers and turrets throughout, etc.) to obfuscate that and as a result the game only clashes with its two predecessors so much (enough to instill callbacks, not enough to break the identity of the franchise - which one could argue was just a few steps ahead seeing what happened just years later with the slippery slope of the console games and then DNF).

Surprised you didn't mention the fact that DN3D E3 fully shares its name with E1 of DN1.

ck3D, on 04 January 2026 - 01:53 AM, said:

and to an extent the direct tie to the platformers always seemed important to the direction (as in, it never even seemed a question to deny the whole series).

Including platforming in of itself. DN3D took full advantage of its verticality by implementing its franchise origins and having you vault and hop all over the place.

Side-note, I've always loved Duke's air control and is why I generally enjoy platforming segments in Duke 3D levels (official or otherwise).

ck3D, on 04 January 2026 - 01:53 AM, said:

What I really meant is it is a bit mysterious trying to pinpoint the exact timeline of E2 dev, I would assume the actual story and composition of D3D's E2 probably came later than some of the map material itself

In the 0.99 beta, didn't the proposed level list show Episode 2 starting you off on the moon before moving off into more general space adventures? Also, I could be misremembering and/or getting some wires crossed, but I thought I recalled Dark Side being proven to be the oldest map still present in the game (as of 1.3d).


I know game design is an iterative process but I can't think of any other game with known protoypes that are so vastly far removed from their final form as Duke 3D.

ck3D, on 04 January 2026 - 01:53 AM, said:

and then by the time of E3 everyone must have been rinsed and so that one was just a stint and mostly on Levelord to secure (and he did great).

Wasn't most of E3 refurbished Dukematch levels? Although I've always found it hard to pick apart which ones.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 04 January 2026 - 08:47 AM, said:

Also, I could be misremembering and/or getting some wires crossed, but I thought I recalled Dark Side being proven to be the oldest map still present in the game (as of 1.3d).

The oldest map still present in the game, TerminX has stated before is Stadium; now, no idea about the oldest legitimate level in the game, but I wouldn't doubt something E2. I sort of feel like the developers only really understood the potential of city levels quite late (hence going back to L6 and digging into it), and once they did redirected from the original plans of equal parts base, space and city, to 66% city - which also had the side effect of urbanizing the coolest sections from the bases they had already made (bits of Death Row, Rabid Transit).

Long story short to me looks like D3D dev had two phases, first an explosive burst of creativity and experimentation in every which way with the editor that would naturally result in an awful lot of production, and then a second one of scavenging, recollecting and piecing together of all the bits that eventually would be curated to make the game (one could parallel that with the history of weapons dev). That's probably at least part of what looks so odd about it, and why the timeline looks funny in pictures. For a long time, nothing looked fixated at all until suddenly it was.

Ninety-Six, on 04 January 2026 - 08:47 AM, said:

Wasn't most of E3 refurbished Dukematch levels? Although I've always found it hard to pick apart which ones.

Yes, for what that is worth the layouts actually shine in Dukematch too, for instance Fahrenheit commonly catches a lot of flack from single players but really is fun in that mode. E4 also has old bits (obviously with Derelict, which I find to feel very E2), one level I find the history of to be rather fascinating is XXX Stacy because they basically redrew the same layout multiple times and cut some major features with every iteration; as a result the final level feels absolutely aimless once you exit the building, but that is because that area no longer makes sense without the ditch and the key there.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 04 January 2026 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yes, for what that is worth the layouts actually shine in Dukematch too, for instance Fahrenheit commonly catches a lot of flack from single players but really is fun in that mode.

Farenheit was one I was fairly sure was one of the DM levels, simply because it stands out among other city levels for not really having one central theme. Sure, it's called Farenheit and even has sirens in the music, but you spend less than a minute in the actual fire station, which itself comes halfway in to the level. You spend about as much time in the apartment and probably more time in the radio station. It's kind of an odd duck of a level, but the concept and layout makes much more sense from a DM perspective.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 05 January 2026 - 10:29 AM, said:

Farenheit was one I was fairly sure was one of the DM levels, simply because it stands out among other city levels for not really having one central theme. Sure, it's called Farenheit and even has sirens in the music, but you spend less than a minute in the actual fire station, which itself comes halfway in to the level. You spend about as much time in the apartment and probably more time in the radio station. It's kind of an odd duck of a level, but the concept and layout makes much more sense from a DM perspective.

Yup - in DM the second block is where all of the hot action takes place, the street essentially works as a big pit or trench where you are super exposed whenever you need to navigate it. The radio station is one place to camp but opponents can catch up on you in your back, apartment and fire station are two more spots where you can catch a break but never for long. Back alley with all the crates becomes a mess of a fast, narrow maze where explosions are deadly, and then there is the quick loop through the first block that is more isolated but you often come back to for supplies or strategies. The water reservoir that features what has to be the least understood Battlelord Sentry encounter in the game in SP also earns points in DM because human opponents there take up more space than idle AI and ensure everyone is forced to use the underwater to their advantage in lieu of hesitating about what to do. Single players probably couldn't care less for the most part, but the loops are perfect. Some of my best memories in Duke 64 Dukematch have been in that map, and in the exclusive level Shaft.