[NightFright]

Don't worry about the flipped sprite attached to the bottom instead of the ceiling. It's the same for the model we currently have, and it can be fixed pretty well with maphacks. Just make the non-flipped version look right and it will work ingame, probably even with the maphacks we already have.

[Hendricks266]

Supertanker, on 14 January 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Will upload a model soonish for people to play with! What license do people like for the HRP? My only caveat is that I don't want someone to be making money off this without asking me first :>

This is your only choice: http://svn.eduke32.c...art_license.txt

[Supertanker]

NSFW post...I think you know where this is going.

First off, nice to know. I think I'll fiddle with the hair a bit more then upload an md3 for people to critique.

Also, starting another project: (NSFW): http://supertanker.m....net/1323_2.jpg

Dang godiva hair. Blender's hair tools are really annoying me.

END NSFW

Edit: The HRP license looks reasonable to me. Basically, do whatever you want with it so long as you don't sell it and so long as you give credit to the authors, correct?

[Danukem]

I think it's important, whenever asking for HRP feedback, too look at the original 8-bit tile side-by-side with the proposed replacement. So I have attached the slimebabe tile. Here are some criticisms of your WIP model:

• Her body shape is not sexy enough. The babe in the original tile appears more athletic and has a better hip to waist ratio.
  
• In the original tile, you can see that she is suffering and struggling. In your model, she is just kind of standing there like she is enjoying the view.
  
• Also note the difference in the cut of her panties.

[Supertanker]

I did have it in front of me but I spent too little time tweaking things in MakeHuman. I might go back and edit it since I think I can just reapply the rig to the output model. (Incidentally, the babe in 603 is a little less atheletic and breasted than the original, but I did that on purpose.)

My computer is feeling the strain of the years...2GB RAM just isn't enough for Blender anymore. Darn DDR1!

Edit: Wait, I think I can just tinker with the shapekeys in Blender. We'll see

[0815Jack]

in addtion to what DeeperThought said i would suggest following:

- the pale should have a different surface, like in the orginal
- the babe definetly needs more body tension, not only more muscles
- the hair of the babe should have more volume


all in all great work can you make screenshot from different angeles?

[Helixhorned]

@Supertanker: so making the z origin coincide with her feet doesn't solve the inversion issue?

NightFright, on 15 January 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Don't worry about the flipped sprite attached to the bottom instead of the ceiling. It's the same for the model we currently have, and it can be fixed pretty well with maphacks. Just make the non-flipped version look right and it will work ingame, probably even with the maphacks we already have.

Let's not do this, it's not what maphacks are for. Otherwise you're bound to have me complaining endlessly .

[Danukem]

Helixhorned, on 15 January 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Let's not do this, it's not what maphacks are for.

Also, user maps do not use maphacks, and 95% of good maps are user maps.

[Supertanker]

I was thinking about the usermap issue earlier today; that's why I don't want to kludge my way through it. I'll try resetting the origins in a bit.

NSFW from three different angles:

http://supertanker.m....net/1323_3.jpg
http://supertanker.m....net/1323_4.jpg
http://supertanker.m....net/1323_5.jpg

The hair is a placeholder. The underthings are a placeholder. The eyes are whacky @.o And I fail at textures but now I have things to do in real life so I'll probably focus on getting 0603 done and then take my time on this model. (Was planning on baking normals to a lower-res object...)

Thanks for the advice all I'll just keep tweaking it until it's done, but it probably won't be as done as fast as 603.

[The Commander]

I think she needs to have bloodshot eyes, as her eyes appear to be red in the original.

[Tea Monster]

If you are worried about textures, I thought that MH supplied them. You should be able to get the low and high poly into the same position and bake it across along with the normals. Or bake off an AO map and use that to give it some punch.

[Supertanker]

I meant for the alien slime thing, heh. Her textures are fine (I did what you described with 603). I love being able to bake textures (that's how the slime has a really cool sheen to it in eduke32 for 603--baked normal and spec maps with ridiculous specpoewr). Haven't gotten around to tweaking it yet. I'll play with the object centers in a bit.

[Supertanker]

Okay, #603 is driving me nuts. It seems to be the ONLY tile that I know of in game where the tile's center is not, in fact, in it's center (it's at the top--check in bastART or similar). As such, all 603 sprites are actually above the floor/in the ceiling a bit. I can't seem to compensate for this in blender; all it seems to care about are object centers and it doesn't care if your model is at the origin or not.

The #603 sprite still flips around its middle and not the odd top center. So if I try to adjust my model to make it taller by putting it above the model center--it starts flipping around an invisible point instead (the actual center) instead of the middle like it should be.

If you use zadd to try to correct for THAT, you'll find that zadd messes up object flipping; it moves the center and your object starts flipping around an origin that is not the middle of the model like it should be.

Long story short: Eduke32 is not handling this tile properly. Get this in your head: EVERY instance of #603 in game (the original sprite) is raised above the floor and/or is in the ceiling halfway. It's just that the center of the tile is actually the top of the tile. Doesn't make sense? Nope, it doesn't :> But it's wasted about five hours of my time today trying to get it to appear in game right and I don't feel like fiddling with it any right now and I'm more than a little irritated right now.

I guess I'll work on 1323 instead. :>

[Danukem]

Is it one of those tiles where the game is coded to make it half-submerged (i.e. like the game presses C on it in mapster)? I know that the fire sprites work that way.

[Supertanker]

Nah; this is something set in the art files. (Look in tiles002.art for yourself and see).

[Hendricks266]

DeeperThought, on 15 January 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Is it one of those tiles where the game is coded to make it half-submerged (i.e. like the game presses C on it in mapster)? I know that the fire sprites work that way.

Surprisingly, in the two locations I found it hanging from the ceiling (I looked in E3L1 and E3L2) it did not have cstat 128 set. It truly is an oddity that it has the yoffset of -85 for no particular reason.

[Supertanker]

That is because allmost sprite's center is set to be the exact middle of the sprite (e.g., a 64x64 sprite would have a center at (32,32)). However, in the case of #603, it's in the middle top, right about the center of the alien slime...thing...attached to the ceiling and flush against the top edge of the sprite. I have no idea why the art designers did that.

Try inserting #603 at ground level. It'll be sticking halfway into the ground. Use control + pageup to put it into the ceiling; it'll be floating a few units (~85?) below the ceiling. This makes things difficult for this model.

[Danukem]

Sounds like a case where you need to use zadd in the model def.

[Supertanker]

zadd screws with the point at which the model rotates when you flip it upside-down. So you're screwed either way; it'll be working on the ceiling but not in the floor, or working in the floor but not in the ceiling...believe me, I went through all this. I'll try uploading the whole thing tomorrow so everyone can tinker.

Edit: to explain better: #603 flips around its middle even though its "center" is technically the top edge. When the model rotates around the center it's too low. zadd fixes one direction but when you flip the model, it decides it wants to flip around the old center (before zadd is applied) so you get your model flying up in the air or into the ground when you turn it upside down, just by changing zadd.

[NightFright]

I think it will be really hard to avoid maphack usage with #603. We never got it working without them before, and with good reason. No clue why the sprite version worked before, but if you use a model, you are really in lots of trouble.

[Supertanker]

Yes, but there's the problem with usermaps inherent in that.

What would be great would be an "absolute" zadd that does NOT care about model flipping.

Here's a test version for people that want to play around/critique it. http://supertanker.m...0603_test1a.zip

Unzip it into ~/.eduke32 and include babes.def in your duke3d.def

[0815Jack]

Supertanker, on 16 January 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yes, but there's the problem with usermaps inherent in that.

What would be great would be an "absolute" zadd that does NOT care about model flipping.

Here's a test version for people that want to play around/critique it. http://supertanker.m...0603_test1a.zip

Unzip it into ~/.eduke32 and include babes.def in your duke3d.def

definetly an hugh improvment compared to the old model i like the details on the face ( open mouth, teeth, nose...) and the the hands.....and the animation looks very natural ....

- Wouldit be possible to add some more polys to the breasts, so that they will look "rounder" from the side?
- Could the toes also be modeled or would that increase the poly count too much?
- I really dont know if is it really necessary to model the slip, cause there will be always a small visible gap between body and slip.
- The skin needs some improvement..... looks very bright with my setup..... could have some more details

[blackhatred]

This looks promising but the skin is the weakest link. It definately needs AMBIENT OCCLUSION.

[sebabdukeboss20]

Supertanker, the standing babe is looking really good so far. I hope you continue the other slime babes too. Great job!

[Supertanker]

0815Jack, on 17 January 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

definetly an hugh improvment compared to the old model i like the details on the face ( open mouth, teeth, nose...) and the the hands.....and the animation looks very natural ....

- Wouldit be possible to add some more polys to the breasts, so that they will look "rounder" from the side?
- Could the toes also be modeled or would that increase the poly count too much?
- I really dont know if is it really necessary to model the slip, cause there will be always a small visible gap between body and slip.
- The skin needs some improvement..... looks very bright with my setup..... could have some more details

I added a few more around the breasts to make them smoother but I have to cut back because I just realized the model somehow has around 5k polies (!!!!). I'm trying to optimize as best I can.

Toes would be difficult to do from the base mesh.

Dunno about the slip, too lazy to texture paint it in. As for the skin, added an AO layer to the texture so it's a bit darker, somewhat.

What's really annoying me is the experimental normal map for the body. It looks GREAT but there are seems at the places in the model where the UV map edges are. It's really annoying.

The last main problem is the hair mesh--I can't seem to get Blender to export it "last" so that it's drawn over the rest of the body instead of alpha-blending through the body so you can see weird things like the wall through the babe's head. Blender is not cooperating. I always select the hair last but it's still not working quite right. (Tried hair first too.)

[Hendricks266]

Try adjusting the order of the surfaces in the tree view.

[Tea Monster]

Use xNormal for baking, it blows everything else out of the water for baking normal maps. If you export your low-poly from Blender and bake it in xNormal, I've found that it fixes seams.
If you don't want to do that, use Blenders texture painting smear and clone tools to feather out seams on the maps.

[Micky C]

Supertanker, on 17 January 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I added a few more around the breasts to make them smoother but I have to cut back because I just realized the model somehow has around 5k polies (!!!!). I'm trying to optimize as best I can.

The HRP is specific to polymer these days, and Plagman has told us several times not to worry about the poly count because essentially it doesn't affect performance in polymer. So don't worry about optimising for that reason; the babes are some of the few characters in the game which you can have a good long look at in the game without being shot at

[Lunick]

I like Micky's thinking and I agree with him.

[Micky C]

I'm in the mood for messing around in mapster but I don't have the energy to work on a map. What would people say if I decided to do polymer lights for episode 4? The thing is it already has lights by devestator, they're not all that bad, but they don't match up to the thoroughness of episodes 2 and 3 either.