[BuddhaMaster]

Captain Awesome, on 26 April 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

That's not the same gun. The tube magazine and the barrel should be roughly the same length. Gun enthusiasts seem to think it's a customized Winchester 1200/1300 (possibly a Sears 200 or 300 model.)

See, thats what I tried to explain. The last model Brain Damage posted here (4 pages back) has a much different proportion in barrel lenght and overall proportions. The rippled part on top of the top barrel needs to reach almost way back to the main body, the gap is much too big, also the lower barrel portion is way much too thick. the proportions should be as follows:
Back = fat and round, Front = thin and flat, exaggerated

Also the overal FOV (perspective) is totally off. Thats not a problem of my custom game configuration, but the model itself. I don't know how the gun looks if it were raised. But I don't see the back of it. While in the sprite you do!

[Master Fibbles]

I'd like to point out that the pictures posted by CA are of a lefthanded man shooting the shotgun while Duke is righthanded.

[Fox]

We don't know, the video might be flipped for unknow reasons.

[Roma Loom]

I'm not a weapon specialist but it's pretty normal that shell-ejecting hole doesn't spit shells in your face. 3DR guys made this left-sided hole intentionally so the player could enjoy watching shells flying after shots or somethinglikethat.

[Jimmy]

BuddhaMaster, on 27 April 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

See, thats what I tried to explain. The last model Brain Damage posted here (4 pages back) has a much different proportion in barrel lenght and overall proportions. The rippled part on top of the top barrel needs to reach almost way back to the main body, the gap is much too big, also the lower barrel portion is way much too thick. the proportions should be as follows:
Back = fat and round, Front = thin and flat, exaggerated

Also the overal FOV (perspective) is totally off. Thats not a problem of my custom game configuration, but the model itself. I don't know how the gun looks if it were raised. But I don't see the back of it. While in the sprite you do!

A lot of people seem to think it's a Mossberg, and I chalk that up to people not knowing all the much about guns except from television and video games. It's pretty obvious to me it's not a Mossberg.

Though, the original FOV and angle of the shotgun are very strange. I don't know if you'll be able to fully replicate it in 3D.

Mr.Flibble, on 27 April 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'd like to point out that the pictures posted by CA are of a lefthanded man shooting the shotgun while Duke is righthanded.

Roma and Fox are correct. I'm guessing that probably Marked and myself are the only gun enthusiasts around, but shells eject from the right side of a gun, away from the person shooting. It was filmed that way so that it could be vertically flipped, and the shells could eject in front of the player for "cool" factor. That is an official video released from 3DR itself.

[Tetsuo]

Well I'm not interested in getting into a gun knowledge pissing contest on the internet and if someone knows better than me about a certain gun then fine. I looked it up and it looks like it's a winchester model 1300 defender with pistol grip and forward pistol grip mod such as the folllowing:

http://i148.photobuc...00Defender2.jpg
http://picturearchiv..._thumbnail1.jpg

Couldn't find a good image where the exact style is enlarged to show detail though... oh well.

[Jimmy]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest either, but the point of the HRP should be accuracy.

[MusicallyInspired]

Just wanted to say I like the idea with the jetpack/Duke model.

[Striker]

As for the shotgun, how about use this model? I can try getting in contact with the owner... as it is, I know how to decompile it, and get it into a useable MD3 File, or whatever is wished for.

http://www.gamebanan...scz/skins/19675

[Master Fibbles]

I'm pretty sure we have gone down that road before...I can't remember when (or how many times) or how it turned out, but I know we have been through this idea before.

[Spiker]

Well if you don't know this yet it's THE SAME model that is used in Dukeplus.

EDIT: Note from credits. Thanks to: “Edisleado”, “HellSpike”, and “Pete”, for creating the model and skins for the Duke Nukem Cruizer shotgun. And remember here it's just a render.

[Striker]

Brain Damage, on 28 April 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Well if you don't know this yet it's THE SAME model that is used in Dukeplus.

EDIT: Note from credits. Thanks to: "Edisleado", "HellSpike", and "Pete", for creating the model and skins for the Duke Nukem Cruizer shotgun. And remember here it's just a render.

The one in DukePlus lacks the vertical grip... are you sure it is the same model?

Not exactly just a render:



It's complete with animations too. Just would need to be rigged to new hands, and have some normal maps created for the textures.

[Spiker]

StrikerMan780, on 28 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

are you sure it is the same model?

It's complete with animations too. Just would need to be rigged to new hands, and have some normal maps created for the textures.

- Of course it's the same model! The one in Dukeplus was just slightly modified.

- It doesn't matter if there are animations unless you have the source file. Noone sane supplies md3 format on regular basis. And often artists won't share the source with you.

- The texture probably has baked-in lighting so it's useless anyway.

However if you get a permission to use it, create the texture, normal and specular maps, add hands, animate and bring this into a game with the proper FOV then you have a chance of it being included, of course if it looks better.

[Hendricks266]

StrikerMan780, on 28 April 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

It's complete with animations too. Just would need to be rigged to new hands, and have some normal maps created for the textures.

One does not simply "create" normal maps. That involves making the whole model again on a very detailed level and then baking the details into the skin from the low-poly in-game version.

[Jimmy]

Not to mention, the model is a Mossberg as opposed to a Winchester 1200/1300.

[Diaz]

Brain Damage, on 28 April 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

- It doesn't matter if there are animations unless you have the source file. Noone sane supplies md3 format on regular basis. And often artists won't share the source with you.

Not if you can decompile the model...

BTW, this Winchester 1300 with accesories does look a lot like the model they were using in Duke3D Reloaded:

[Tea Monster]

Yeah, but as Hendricks266 said, if you are de-constructing a model with normal maps, you need the high-poly to get the normal maps from. If you don't have that, yall's SOL.

Besides, whats wrong with the shotgun model we now have? I think it looks pretty sweet. It may not be 100% exactly like the original gun, but is anyone going to really care?
Do we think it's a good idea to waste time to adjust another model to make it look the spit of the sprite, when this model looks cool and does the job? Especially when you think of how much stuff in the HRP desperately needs to be reworked?

Oh, and just a warning to you guys, I'm not slavishly following the sprite sheets when I'm doing my stuff. If I think that a particular feature would look or work better with an update, then I'm going for it. Just letting you know ahead of time.

[Hendricks266]

I think in general accuracy to the sprites is a guideline, but we should encourage taking artistic liberties when they are positive changes and still retain the spirit of the original.

[Tetsuo]

Tea Monster, on 28 April 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Besides, whats wrong with the shotgun model we now have? I think it looks pretty sweet. It may not be 100% exactly like the original gun, but is anyone going to really care?

Just make sure you are using high res textures on them... some of the better looking HUD models in there right now have much larger textures than for example the current pistol. The better looking skins have 1024x1024 textures and the pistol has 512x512.. HUD textures are the most important IMO since you always see them up close.

The current shotgun model is OK I guess but could still use some adjustment and revision like has been outlined before. Especially if one used photos like the winchester above as a reference for those adjustments. I know you don't care but it would be really sweet in my opinion for the model to be as good as it can be. Especially the shotgun which is one of the weapons I use the most. If the current model was perfect and pleased everyone we wouldn't be having this conversation besides.

It doesn't have to look 100% 1:1 to the sprite but it's entirely in the realm of possibility to get it looking "close enough". I thought the Hellspike one fit that bill pretty much... wrong brand labeling aside. Although how it looks doesn't really affect how it works since it's just cosmetic and it's not like we are playing Shotgun Simulator 2012 or anything.

[lambdist]

Where I can download old-style small hud for Eduke32 & HRP like here?

Similar to that

Because I don't like this "flying" Q3 Style hud.

[fgsfds]

lambdist, on 30 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Where I can download old-style small hud for Eduke32 & HRP like here?

Options -> Game Setup -> More -> Upgraded status bar NO

[Striker]

Tea Monster, on 28 April 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Besides, whats wrong with the shotgun model we now have? I think it looks pretty sweet. It may not be 100% exactly like the original gun, but is anyone going to really care?

I care. Personally, I think the model being used right now looks like ass. No offense to the creator, but, it needs improvement. The barrel is far too short, the hand is anatomically screwed up and twisted, and the model in general seems to too low on the screen.

The pistol bothers me too, the hand is clipping into the model, the animation is off (On the model, the back of the pistol is moving with the slide, when it shouldn't... Just look at the actual sprite frames...), and there seems to be no definition between the top of Duke's arm and the top of his wrist when reloading...

[Hendricks266]

The hands/arms are separate creations from the weapons themselves and were joined at the end, so they can be replaced on their own.

Also, the shotgun positioning may just be due to the extreme difficulty of getting good def positioning.

[Jimmy]

I agree with Striker, the pistol is one time that accuracy should be disregarded. It's actually a pretty terrible series of sprites.

[Spiker]

Remember that nothing here is final. I agree about the hand on the pistol. Also after some thought I think it's FOV should be changed back to what you can see with the old pistol. Sooner or later this will happen.

[Spiker]

Sorry to bring it up again but what if the HRP structure was like this:

- highres (Folder containing all the Poymer stuff and and things that are used by both renderers, no change to the original structure)
- polymost (separated textures, monsters, weapons that are used only in Polymost)

Advantages:

- Everything is working as before
- No duplicated stuff
- No compatibility issues
- Tidy structure which is easy to explore and understand

Disadvantages:

- ???

[fgsfds]

A question. Why are you still using alt pals textures for polymer when it have highpalookup?

[Spiker]

If you checked my controversial committ you could see that most alt pals were removed from the polymer folder. (I left only those that looked bad with highpal or I had doubts about) But they're still required for polymost and most of them would be moved there if my idea was considered good this time.

[Hendricks266]

Brain Damage, on 07 May 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Sorry to bring it up again but what if the HRP structure was like this:

- highres (Folder containing all the Poymer stuff and and things that are used by both renderers, no change to the original structure)
- polymost (separated textures, monsters, weapons that are used only in Polymost)

Advantages:

- Everything is working as before
- No duplicated stuff
- No compatibility issues
- Tidy structure which is easy to explore and understand

Disadvantages:

- ???

Don't be sorry, this revised version is a good idea. Be sure to check with LeoD first. Also, only alt-pals for Polymer-exclusive resources should be deleted. If a resource is shared between renderers and it has alt-pals then the alt-pals should be moved to the Polymost folder and only used with the Polymost defs.

[Plagman]

And some of them shouldn't be deleted, as they look better than what what highpal comes up with.