[PokeThePower]

MetHy, on 31 August 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

I think #Garden.map by Wieder, the 2nd map of WD, is the best SW map ever made.

That would actually be the talented Mr. Robert Travis.

One of the most liberal uses of the C key that resulted in a quality level.

[MetHy]

Oh sorry, I assumed it was yours because (I think ?) it got released individually before the full episode, with a few other maps by yourself (and I thought all the maps were by you).

But yeah I think R. Travis has become one of my favourite Build mappers, though it's kinda hard to tell who did what as far as Sunstorm Interactive stuff goes.

BTW - I think the 2 secrets maps of WD feel unfinished compared to the rest (they are good and have good concept, but it's obvious not as much time was spent polishing them). Is this why they were put in the 'secret' slots, because they were 'not as finished' ?
Speaking of map order, it feels a little weird at times. Like how the plane map isn't next to the airport map... I know nothing about the development of WD and why it never made it, was the map order supposed to be different than what we got in the end? (if you remember, that is)

[PokeThePower]

MetHy, on 01 September 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Oh sorry, I assumed it was yours because (I think ?) it got released individually before the full episode, with a few other maps by yourself (and I thought all the maps were by you).

But yeah I think R. Travis has become one of my favourite Build mappers, though it's kinda hard to tell who did what as far as Sunstorm Interactive stuff goes.

No apologies necessary. Getting to work alongside talented people is sometimes just as nice as being considered talented. For Wanton I did the airplane, the final boss level, and the multiplayer maps. wtrfight.map was pretty much what I used to learn all the Shadow Warrior specific engine features.

I occasionally google Mr. Travis to see if he's popped up again. The last time I "sorta" worked with him was testing Manhattan Project. Past that I don't really know what he's been up to aside from a few web page designs.

You can more or less consider Duke DC to be Mr. Travis. I did the installer and Top Secret (the non-aztec part which was borrowed from Robert's Anslem X for fan service) and Shawn Swift did Brown Water. Everything else was Robert. Robert also did a lighting pass on Top Secret that helped darken it up and taught me a lot going into Duke Caribbean.

Duke Caribbean...
Caribbean Catastrophe = Robert
Market Melee = Me, but Robert did a visual pass on it.
Mr. Splashy's = Robert
Wavemistress = Me
Lost Lagoon = Robert
Voodoo Caves = Robert
Alien Remains = Me
Full House = Shawn Swift (I *think)
Multiplayer Levels = Me

I don't know the breakdown of Cryptic Passage to be honest. I did one multiplayer level but was in the process of dropping out of college so aside from updating the installer and that map, I was pretty disconnected while in Texas waiting to move to Indiana. Robert definitely did the bulk of it.

Redneck Rampage - I don't know who did what, but Robert was the lead level designer for it.

Wanton Destruction - A wide range of people. I did the ones mentioned above but have forgotten who did what now except for the garden map by Robert.

MetHy, on 01 September 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

BTW - I think the 2 secrets maps of WD feel unfinished compared to the rest (they are good and have good concept, but it's obvious not as much time was spent polishing them). Is this why they were put in the 'secret' slots, because they were 'not as finished' ?
Speaking of map order, it feels a little weird at times. Like how the plane map isn't next to the airport map... I know nothing about the development of WD and why it never made it, was the map order supposed to be different than what we got in the end? (if you remember, that is)

It didn't get released because SW itself didn't sell enough for the publisher to consider worth spending the money to put on shelves. That's pretty much it.

The levels that were made secret levels were definitely "bumped" due to quality concern. WD and SGoR66 were the first times we tried to do packs where it wasn't just Robert and I trading off and giving each other feedback on our work.

All the other LDs were off site and had lives to attend to. So quality control was more challenging. Since I was already on my way out I didn't do to WD what Robert did for SGoR66. He went in and personally modified and improved all the contract levels to meet his standards, whereas I wasn't sticking around and thus we more or less got what we got and I wasn't in a position to provide extensive feedback much less make the changes myself.

As for level order... I don't remember at all what factored into it. I don't even know if we had locked it down before I left for Ritual to work on Sin. Duke Caribbean had the most thought put behind it and it shows.

[Robman]

Always nice to hear from Sir Charles

Next map I make I'll try to do in a classic style, small spaces, crates and all!

Was also wondering what's with all the maps named Garden? #,$... were the mappers of that era all closet greenthumbs?
There's a Garden named map in original sw, wd and td.

With WD, does anybody else find the primary enemy's sound fx to be a little "too much?" You hear it a lot and from everywhere. That deep growl you hear is pretty spooky though.




DohyoDohChoDoh.

[PokeThePower]

Robman, on 01 September 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Was also wondering what's with all the maps named Garden? #,$... were the mappers of that era all closet greenthumbs?
There's a Garden named map in original sw, wd and td.

Hmmm... well semi-related. When I was a kid my parents had a side business selling ceramics. They got somewhat famous for their bluebonnet works here in Texas which meant we went around and setup booths. I actually attribute some of my unconscious level design desires to arriving in Antique shops, Arts and Crafts expos, etc and helping setup our booth as well as studying how other people set theirs up. I was 10-13ish during this time... but I really enjoyed looking at how people would walk through them, how the lights amplified or hid things, where the eye lines were, etc. It was clear that some people gave it no thought, and others gave it meticulous thought.

As a 12 year old boy spending an entire day in a building with row after row of displays you eventually absorb some knowledge whether you intend to or not.

Anyways... the answer is "yes"... a lot of them probably *wished* they were able to build gardens... but most kinda hated weather that couldn't be controlled via a trigger.

Robman, on 01 September 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

With WD, does anybody else find the primary enemy's sound fx to be a little "too much?"

It is awful and makes it unplayable for me.

[Hendricks266]

Robman, on 01 September 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

With WD, does anybody else find the primary enemy's sound fx to be a little "too much?" You hear it a lot and from everywhere.

That "yariyumbo" shit? Yeah.

[NNC]

I think the best Wanton maps were the Airplane one and the Rooftops one. They were the ones I remember the best. Redwood Forest was also an excellent one. I didn't care much about the Auto Factory level though, that was just there.

[NNC]

Wieder, on 01 September 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Full House = Shawn Swift (I *think)

I thought Travis made that one. It's clearly his style. Those elevators for example.

[Robman]

lol @ Trigger and I do like the stories, hehe

Damn shame at the sound effect thing.

I really need to learn how to use this multiquote stuff, you'd think I would know by now.
I'll just leave a screenie n go...

[MetHy]

Wieder, on 01 September 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Anyways... the answer is "yes"... a lot of them probably *wished* they were able to build gardens... but most kinda hated weather that couldn't be controlled via a trigger.

Huh, I thought it was because they kept the names of the mapfiles of the original game for the respective slots, for simplicity.... Both WD and Twin Dragon have the same map filenames as the original game.

Edit : btw Robert Travis confirmed for my favourite Build mapper.

[Micky C]

This topic REALLY needs to be renamed...

[Robman]

Renamed to what? Wang talk with Rob and Friends?

This topic REALLY needs people saying " Why yes, I could make a map for this CBP!"

[PokeThePower]

Nancsi, on 01 September 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

I thought Travis made that one. It's clearly his style. Those elevators for example.

Robert did a non-trivial polish pass, but the initial layout (as far as I remember) was Shawn's.

Robman, on 01 September 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Damn shame at the sound effect thing.

Was a good lesson that no matter how exciting moving on to a new gig might look... in the long run it's a good idea to stick around and see something to the end if it's only a few weeks or so away.

MetHy, on 02 September 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Huh, I thought it was because they kept the names of the mapfiles of the original game for the respective slots, for simplicity.... Both WD and Twin Dragon have the same map filenames as the original game.

Doh. I was being sarcastic about all of us sitting in dark rooms building these sunny virtual outdoor spaces. Thus why "yes" was in quotes.

I'm pretty confident you are correct for the technical answer.

MetHy, on 02 September 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Edit : btw Robert Travis confirmed for my favourite Build mapper.

I can see tools eventually reaching a point where he would feel comfortable in them again and do some pretty great work.

[MetHy]

Fuck. I'd love a new Robert Travis map.

Sorry for hijacking Robman's thread again, but while you're here I'd like to ask you a last question, this time about Duke It Out DC (if you remember the answer that is). Though it's a good map, I feel like the subway map is the most basic and least polished map of the episode. Like for instance, if you check the map in mapster you had planned to connect the end of the map with the next one with a copy pasted section of the beginning of the sewer of the next map, which one can see in mapster, left unfinished, but which can't be accessed in game. Also I could be wrong but I think it doesnt even use any of the new textures.

I have a feeling that it could be a usermap one of the mappers did on his own on his spare time (perhaps even done before the idea of Duke It Out In DC was a thing) and that you decided to include it in the episode. Am I right?

[Lunick]

MetHy, on 05 September 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Fuck. I'd love a new Robert Travis map.

I guess I am also hijacking but, this, this so much!

I've seen a few old Doomers make some new maps in the past year.

[PokeThePower]

MetHy, on 05 September 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Sorry for hijacking Robman's thread again...

I'm really bad about that across this entire forum.

MetHy, on 05 September 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Fuck. I'd love a new Robert Travis map.

...but while you're here I'd like to ask you a last question, this time about Duke It Out DC (if you remember the answer that is). Though it's a good map, I feel like the subway map is the most basic and least polished map of the episode. Like for instance, if you check the map in mapster you had planned to connect the end of the map with the next one with a copy pasted section of the beginning of the sewer of the next map, which one can see in mapster, left unfinished, but which can't be accessed in game. Also I could be wrong but I think it doesnt even use any of the new textures.

I have a feeling that it could be a usermap one of the mappers did on his own on his spare time (perhaps even done before the idea of Duke It Out In DC was a thing) and that you decided to include it in the episode. Am I right?

As far as I know it's something Robert built for Duke DC the same as all the other maps.

MetHy, on 05 September 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Fuck. I'd love a new Robert Travis map.

Knowing what I know about Robert... that's highly dependent on the toolset and unfortunately very few people spend a lot of time making their toolsets workable to guys like Robert. I think he could enjoy the new version of Halo Forge we've been working on (he wasn't far from my mind when voicing support for certain efforts), but only if he was also excited about the core Halo sandbox itself.

[Robman]

Anyone else making progress?
Also if anyone is sitting on some unreleased sw maps, shame on you..

[MetHy]

*posting error please delete*

[Robman]

Current Info :

Robman - Map and .Grp file maker + Intro art & "Admin"

Corvin - Batch file maker(for dos ver.) and misc tasks.

micmea668 - Map Maker

Brandon(Boost)(Wangsdojo.COM owner) - Map maker

Daedolon - Possible map maker

High Treason - Possible map maker

MetHy - Making an Sw map but too good for this shit

[duke64nukem]

I wish i could say i'm in, i'm just so familiar with mapster makes it hard to use build. So i couldn't make the promise and even if i did make a map it might not turn out so well. If i do make one in time i would show you it Robman. Anyway, i'm really interested in what this becomes i love me some shadow warrior. Maybe can include some dm maps for it to out of the maps submitted?

[Micky C]

Duke64Nukem, on 19 September 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

I wish i could say i'm in, i'm just so familiar with mapster makes it hard to use build.

Haha I don't think it'll be the controls that are the main problem with mapping for Shadow Warrior, it's the map effects that are going to take the most time to learn and construct.

[MetHy]

Robman, on 19 September 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

MetHy - Making an Sw map but too good for this shit

That's no what I said. I said that after Duke Hard I need a break from community projects.

Duke64Nukem, on 19 September 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

I wish i could say i'm in, i'm just so familiar with mapster makes it hard to use build. So i couldn't make the promise and even if i did make a map it might not turn out so well. If i do make one in time i would show you it Robman. Anyway, i'm really interested in what this becomes i love me some shadow warrior. Maybe can include some dm maps for it to out of the maps submitted?

I use both mapster32 and SWP to map for SW. Basically, except effects and palette changes, I build everything in mapster32, and I switch to SWP Build every time I need to make an effect (unless all you need is tag1 and 2 which mapster32 can edit, but in most cases you need more tags than that) or try custom palettes. It sounds like trouble but trust me, I actually win time this way.
In order to do this you need to put mapster32 in your SW fodler, and simply extract all the art file and the palette from the GRP, and mapster will use them.
If you rename SW.exe to eduke32.exe you can even directly launch and test your map from mapster.
Also, even though you can't change all the new tags of SW effects in mapster32, if you copy/paste a working effect using mapster32, it will also copy paste those other tags and it will work. Can't make your own boat? Copy-paste a working one with mapster32...
The main issue with this is that the scale isn't right in mapster32 because SW is 38% (I think?) bigger, but it's something I got used to very quickly.

[Daedolon]

I've been busy with life stuff so I haven't been able to work on my map at all. I'm definitely still in unless you have a strict deadline planned soon.

[Robman]

No deadline yet, would be good to see who is in on it though and some screens showing a little progress(activity.)

[MetHy]

Huh, I have finally found the Redux workshop. The reason it doesn't show up in the library is because it's in beta, so you have to go through Steam's general workshop to find it. I've even discovered a map I had never played before and it's one of the best SW usermaps I've played!
Edit: it actually is a new map! That's good!

I hope this goes out of beta even if there aren't many SW usermaps. This motivates me to finish my map in any case!

Edit 2 : I've uploaded City Life on SW's workshop. I'll see if I can find more good maps to upload.

[t800]

MetHy, on 02 October 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

I've even discovered a map I had never played before and it's one of the best SW usermaps I've played!
Edit: it actually is a new map! That's good!

Could you tell me name of it? I am not user of Steam, but you got me interested in it, so I would like to try it on my own.

/inb4 somebody says: "what? you are not using steam? are you living under rock?" I have reasons for it and dont care about your opinions.

[MetHy]

The author might not even have uploaded the map anywhere else, so here you go. It's kind like a remake of the restaurant map in WD. It's not great but it's damn good as far as SW usermaps are concerned.

Attached File(s)

•  restaura.zip (1.67MB)
  Number of downloads: 224

[Robman]

I have that 1 located at the bottom of the wanton destruction TC page on SWC. Yeah it's a goodie.

Bento Restaurant
By: Dave Billing

[MetHy]

The name is Bento Noodle though...

[Micky C]

That is a very nice looking scene actually.