[Robman]

You can make a sector trigger, trigger a sound. When you enter/ leave it aswell.

Make the sector lo tag 212 to play it once.
211 to play it when triggered again and again etc.. sector hi tag will be the match tag to your sound spot st1.

or, just give the sound spot st1 a bool 1 value of 1 to play it once only.

With the lock thing, I would imagine you can.. there's alot of ways it could be done

Try tagging the switch sprite the same you would tag a regular lock, I never tried that I don't think.

OR you could trigger a delete sprite st1 ( placed at same x/y ) of the sector locking st1 to delete it when triggered by a switch of any sort.

OR could trigger the entire door sector to be replaced using the sect copy ( ht 58 and 59 iirc.) with an exact replica of the door only not with a sect lock st1 in the copied in sector.

could even be a few more ways to do it.

I ran across the dual lightswitch problem in my melee.map, I never bothered to find a fix because I made the one lightswitch disappear into the floor after the first activation anyway. Maybe try giving the switches the same tag3 value? Maybe make one switch start on and the other start off, dunno.
nothing is coming to me as a work around for that at the moment. I think remember reading something about that long ago. Actually, tag the lo tag of the light switches 206 .. try this first.

Here's the bool 4 of ht 92 sect vator.
BOOL4= 0: Operate in WangBang games
1: Not allowed to operate in WangBang games

That sort of thing?

Also you can make weapons and items multiplayer only with f8? or f7? in 2dbuild, the skill level selection is in that menu aswell.



On another note, the sprites don't have to be breakable to disappear when ran over by a driveable.

[MetHy]

Like I said I tried with the lock st1 already, linking it to a switch, and obviously it doesn't work (only works for keys and keycards).
I can't believe one can't lock/unlock doors using a simple switch. That is such a basic feature in DN3D. It's very stupid that they didn't include it.
I was having such a hard time believing they didn't include this feature that I checked some maps of the game hoping to find the effect somewhere, but nope.... it's always either keycards; or directly OPENING the doors with the switch, not unlocking. There is no switch unlocking in SW, goddamn this sucks.

All the alternatives you mentioned sound terrible to me, because they won't display the msg "unlocked" and also because you can't re-lock the thing afterwards. I'm not blaming you, these are good ideas, I'm blaming the game.

Now I really don't know whether I should use one of these alternatives or if I I should simply make the switch open the door, rather than unlocking it.
In my case the alternatives 'could' work because the switch would be next to the door. But even then it can cause confusions to the player since it doesn't display any msg and because it only works once... for instance if the player presses the switch before trying the door and realizing that it was locked, he will either wonder what the switch did or think that the switch doesn't do anything at all. I can't allow for such possibilities in my maps, it's WAY too amateurish.

For the lightswitch ; yes I understand how to make it work now. You have to use switches tagged 206 with vators; and the vators' tag6 turn on/off the light; this way the switches will always be on the right position. It should work but again, that's a workaround which wastes ressources for something that is common and easy in DN3D with simple lightswitches.

I was pretty amazed by some of awesome things you can do with SW especially compared to DN3D; but now I've just hit the things you CAN'T do compared to DN3D, and these 2 are very basic ones. So I take back what I said about SW, not EVERY effect is superior to DN3D and some are actually worse and a lot more limited. I'm a little disappointed now.

edit : the thing is, after learning more about SW effects I was assuming that SW was "DN3D and more, a lot more" so I built my level design with that in mind, not knowing that some things possible in dn3D were not possible in SW. Well, I can make it work anyway so it's not a BIG deal and at least now I know.

edit 2 : Oh I got an idea for the lock door. If I use one of the alternatives coupled with the sound usually used when you unlock a door with a key; that should work. The problem is, if I do that, the button will only do something once, even though you can still push the button (with the animation showing) several times.... Again, I consider that pretty ugly and amateurish so I guess I'll stick to having the button open/close the door.

As for the wangbang only thing; that's the contrary of what I meant : yeah I noticed that you can make things only operable in DM, which is nice (and not possible in dn3D), however I was wondering if you could also make some switches only appear in multiplayer (it's possible in DN3D and very useful ; in megaton you can even make switches DM only or COOP only rather than "multiplayer only" which is wonderful and i hope eduke32 include that feature once the online works again)

edit 3 : hmm I'm trying tag206 + vator for the light switch. But I can't get it to work any better. I tried different combinaisons (with the different animations of the switch to begin with, with the vator set to on or off) and at best what I get is that the switch only animates once or doesn't animate at all (even though the light does get turned on/off each time i press it). I guess I'm stuck with one lighswitch per light because this doesn't seem to be compatible with lights...

Edit 4: scratch what i just said, it didn't work with a vator but it does work with a rotating door. Problem is, contrary to vator which waste only 1 sector, now it wastes 2 sectors each time i need several lightswitches per light...

[Robman]

build the button into a "cabinet" that closes when the button is pressed , triggers the unlock sound and unlocks the door. Yeah it will be operable only once but meh, it's a work around.

you want multiplayer only buttons? Stick them in a cabinet also, that is triggered to open early on in the map or whatever but only in dm mode. Could build these cabinets so they aren't really noticeable as cabinets, know what I'm sayin?



Light switches - did you try giving the light switches matching tag3 tags? worth a try. There likely is a way, I would leave extra vators out of that equation.

[MetHy]

Robman, on 03 August 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

you want multiplayer only buttons? Stick them in a cabinet also, that is triggered to open early on in the map or whatever but only in dm mode. Could build these cabinets so they aren't really noticeable as cabinets, know what I'm sayin?

I know what you're saying man, trust me I've probably built more of those multiplayer 'cabinets' than any other Build mapper ever.
I was asking to know if there was a direct way to do that, an effect built in in the game, (but apparently not). I can find workarounds just fine by myself though.

Also each 'cabinet' eats up several sectors (and again since I'm probably going to hit the limit with this map, this is a concern), would have been nice to have a built in way to do it.
I understand the system is different though : duke3D uses "multiplayer only" things, and on the contrary, SW blocks things from being operatable in DM. I just personally think it would have been nice if they didn't take out anything from DN3D and instead only added more. I guess they just didn't include these things I'm complaining SW doesn't have because they didn't have use for it this time... (but then again, the official readmes say that they left in some things they never used)
But yeah DN3D is DN3D and SW is SW and I'll have to deal with it. Some things are better in DN3D, some are better in SW...

Quote

Light switches - did you try giving the light switches matching tag3 tags? worth a try. There likely is a way, I would leave extra vators out of that equation.

Yeah doesn't change a thing. I don't believe it's possible unless using tag206 and an extra couple of sectors with a slidoor. I don't remember any SW map having more than one lightswitch per light.

[Robman]

Is, what it is.

" I can find workarounds just fine by myself though." .... Just trying to help.

[MetHy]

Another question again, I highly doubt it's possible but we never know... is it possible to make breakable items NON breakable?

I'm trying to get a good looking asian-style lamp but ALL of them break and make fire once broken! It's driving me nuts.... It looks like most things are breakable in SW which means you're limited as far as sprite used is concerned.

[Robman]

set the lamp bool 1 = 1.

[MetHy]

Damn! This is great, thanks a lot. Seems to work for any destroyable sprite, too.

[Lunick]

Robman is the Shadow Warrior

[MetHy]

Hey, I'm having trouble with turrets. I've very easily made a functionning turret; however what I'm having trouble with is that I can only make them one sector. If I add other sectors, either inside it or around it, no matter how I do it (i've tried several ways of building said sectors; and also several ways of tagging the turret); only one sector will move and not all the sectors of the turret. Would you know how to build those sectors so that all of them move?

[Robman]

post a 2d mode screenshot.

All I can think of at the moment is to have the floors relative and make sure no other sectors are connected to your bound wall loop sector ( wall lo tag 504 )

[MetHy]

I dunno how this can help.



I built this one sector, tagged it all properly; and it works; but if I add other sectors (whether I add the other sectors inside it, or if I add the other sectors attached to it, or if I untag it, make the whole machine; and only tag the middle sector) only the middle sector will rotate. Yes the floors are relative (i don't believe this changes anything other than making the texture rotate too) and no there is nothing else within the "bound_so" and no nothing is connected to the wall lotagged 504 when I do that.... So I'm pretty clueless about how to do it. Like I said above I've tried all the ways I can think of building those sectors...

I have resorted to using sprites in order to make a basic looking turret; because at least the sprites rotates. The problem with this is that the main sector is the whole thing, which means that the player can 'mount' it from wherever he is from the sector (instead of just a small middle sector of the original games turrets) which can cause the mounting to look a bit off; but it's the best I can seem to get to work.

Also, I don't understand how to get the bobbing ST1 to work (ht52+53). It seems pretty simple according to the official readme file, but it just doesn't work... It says whilr.map has an example of that but I can't find it; I also checked boat.map but the big boat uses another method for bobbing, and I can't think of other examples. Any idea? This is more minor though but it'd be nice to have it.

[Robman]

All I can think of for the turret is maybe you have pressed 0 on the outer walls?(unlikely) Or Have you tried tagging a different wall of your bound sector as 504?
I've had this issue before but don't really remember what I did to fix it. Maybe it doesn't like the wall you picked to tag 504, try another.... like one of the short corner walls.

As for the bobbing st1, I never got it to work either. I just use a vator (92) set to move up and down repeatedly.

[MetHy]

It's really weird, when I build the sectors or walls a certain way it works, but as soon as I change the shape or add another wall to that sector within the turret, it doesn't work anymore.... I'm ressorting to a mix of that 'working' sector with sprites. It should end up looking decent enough so that players don't notice it's actually glued together by sticks and stones I guess.

[Robman]

In order to show some progress of the CBP, I'll give some WIP screenshots of the SwWorld style map I've been creating bit by bit :


Fireballs over water.. Diveable water under ROR, with ROR in the water.. rawr..
That's the end button you see part of in the top left, trying to make it take awhile til' you get there but it's right there taunting you. I've added a shadow of the metal mesh on top of the water since the screenshot.


Touchplate puzzle, transparent water.

The screenshot above is of 2 doors that have some cool multi-directional movement. And yes, an amoeba on the floor
The bright room at the end is a "spiderwall" where you have to strafe jump side to side to make it to the top, built it when watching that American Ninja Show er whatever it is with the intense obstacle courses. Anyway, it'll be integrated into the map better when finished.

Open Section of Sw Land - So Far it's got a tank, lawnmower, pirate ship that moves around, bird flying around, moving platforms( I like some platforming in sw, Lo Wang is nimble..) exploding stuff, that riot gun spins, going to try and make the more powerful weps sit n spin (used 16 of 20 allowed sector objects)
+ more wippy wipe wip.


Few more screenies HERE at SWC.

[MetHy]

I think this looks nice and has some cool ideas, but I also think shading could be better, and also some of those places which use "natural environment textures" (like rocks etc) are too blocky to look natural

[Micky C]

Some of the rooms are pretty boxy as well.

[Robman]

Those "blocky" or square looking rooms are ROR rooms and that stuff is touchy as hell to modify/add sectors so I'm making them look "pretty" .. but yeah square. Also just adding sectors for shading in the ROR areas is a pain so I'm just shading with sprites in those areas. Those rooms are actually the same room as my initial ROR test room I made. Screenshots don't really capture the lighting effect goin on either but It'll be fun to play nonetheless. Still a wip.

The oudoor area has to be flat on top with no sectors to allow the tank and lawnmower to drive around ( they can't cross sectors ) also is largely unfinished.

But yeah, I was thinking the same thing it is kinda square and blocky. I don't want to fret about adding all the walls and curves it takes further achieve the level of realism you guys would be after. I'd like to make the map big/long with the focus on gameplay/movement/ interaction.



And let's face it, maybe I'm not as good of a mapper of a lot of you... but that ain't gonna stop me

I am most proud of the SW "The Edge q2dm1" version I made though, recently updated with some touch ups and spinning weapons.
I want that map to be as good as it can be.

I was more focused on wanting to add lots of effects, so realism gets put on the back shelf when I jump the gun to try/learn some new effects. I seem to make areas and then just build whatever is feasible and I think would be fun to navigate through next that pops into my head.

Focusing on every minute detail tends to burn me out and sometimes make it less fun, fighting bugs that exist in sw/swp build/ build engine can be annoying too.
I think it takes a near level of ocd to accomplish the uber detailed stuff.
I'm a "fantasy" style level maker it seems... reality isn't my game, not right now anyway lol.

Go back a few pages in this thread and try that shooting gallery thing I made up, let me know if you think it was fun.. don't whine that it's too hard though, hehe.

[Micky C]

On the contrary, blocky rooms are realistic. Pretty much all rooms that serve a function have right angled walls. It's just that they feel pretty dull in a computer game.

But perhaps you can use some sprites as trim textures and place them at 45 degrees in the corners, stretch them from the floor to the ceiling to help break the blocky feeling.

[MetHy]

You can do a lot better with RoR even then. The thing is, I don't know if it's going to work as such with your first RoR. I had to get rid of my first RoR completely, but it was useful to make it anyway because it made me understand what you can do or not with it and the kind of problems one will be facing with RoR ; and I used that knowledge for my second RoR which as a consequence looked better than the first one could ever have ended up like.

But anyway, for instance when I look at this screenshot :



I understand what's going on with the 'doorway' between both rooms that goes all up from the floor to the ceiling; my guess is that if you lower the ceiling of that doorway to make it better looking, that lower ceiling won't appear from underwater (as if it's not lowered at all). But, you'll have to admit that 'doorways' between rooms that are so high and go all the way up to the ceiling are really ugly.
But what you can do to come around this kind of issues, is exactly what they did in the original game, is to 'hide' the doorway behind a white wall; like this it won't be visible from underneath and you can do whatever you want with it. The thing with RoR is to create a good balance between what you can see, and what you hide, so that it looks good in the end.

It's what I did in my map for instance :


Like you I couldn't lower the ceiling so I made this white wall in a way that feels natural; and since I couldn't even lower the ceiling on the left and right of that white wall (which links the wooden part with the carpet part), I lowered and sloped the ceiling behind the white wall in the wooden part; and I used the sectors created to make the limits of the VIEWS1 for shading, the darker part here being what you can't see from above.
In the end this whole part with the 2 floors has very few sectors


(both floors are physically on top of each others in the editor too, well not EXACTLY on top of each other actually, but as close as possible without being on the same spot; I did that because I wanted to make both floors physically connected to the outside of the building ; EDIT : oh and after taking this screenshot I noticed that I left some useless VIEWLEVEL st1s down there near the part that's plain; deleted them since)

Also I believe that making the whole room smaller (by that I mean, to make the ceiling level lower) will help to prevent that feeling of big empty square room. Though as you can see, mine too is quite big.
And also yeah, I know the limits, but even then things don't have to be so blocky; even the floormirror sector (the middle sector with water here) doesn't have to be so square-ish (I know mine is square-ish too, but in my case since it's not in a natural environment, it's not really a problem). I have experimented with RoR that was very oddly shaped; and you can even easily seperate your RoR sector into several sectors (so you could make for instance 2 or 3 smaller sized 'holes' in the floor); once you know how RoR works this stuff is actually easy

Also I know what you mean with the vehicule and having one big sector... I have that in my map, except with a boat that you can also see underwater (so I can't do anything with that sector both overwater and underwater), and the sector is big and goes all around the map, so it's quite hard to make it look good considering I can't do anything with that sector. The thing is to play with sprites, but also to play with the shape of the sector, and to compensate with what you build around the sector.
Also, be VERY careful with that big sector and make sure to save often because Build doesn't like big sectors like that and it can easily get glitchy (I make a new map file, "myshit255.map", "myshit256.map", etc at least once a day so I can go back to a previous one without too much loss in case shit happens)

EDIT : I have checked both your map files, I don't understand what's going on with Eagle3.map, it crashes whether I use DOSBOX or SWP, and if I try to open it in SWPBuild I get another mapfile of mine instead... As for wildwest, well, it's really not my cup of tea, limiting the player to a square area with invisible ways while enemies keep spawning result in a very one dimensional gameplay, where you basically can't move and if you want to survive, you have to learn the where the enemies will be, trial&error style.. It's definitly unique and it could be an interesting gameplay sequence, but imo you should block the player with actual stuff (crates, whatever) that the player can use to take cover, and make enemies spawn in a slower progression, that gets more difficult and intense little by little (oh; and what about having a turret, but that's hidden at first and only use-able at the end when things are more hectic? just a random idea). Visually it looks good but imo it could use more shading.

[Robman]

Just wait til' it's done, it'll be fun.
These sections that seem simple, aren't so simple.
Agreed this section looks squarish, although I only posted screenies of the ROR sections, the dark room with the cool doors will be a bonus room.

This....

Is this room. Actually only the bottom half of it.


The puzzle room looks like this after triggering the sector swap and exploding through the walls that once simply raised up and down with the touchplates.


Versions...



Don't forget I compare most of what I build to 90% of the other user maps that have been built for sw which a lot of are how do I say.. not impressive or use very little effects.



I dunno why eagle3 won't work for you, if you want to try the actual Eagle map up for DL it's HERE freshly updated with the current version.

The Wildwest map is beatable yet at an unrelenting pace if you screw up. The garbage cans off to the side hide a rocketlauncher that you can gain.
If you block the players with stuff you either a: can't see over it or b: think you should be able to jump over it.
It's a shooting gallery style map.


On top of just looks, each room has lighting, sound fx and enemies to focus on.



I'll keep working away on it.

And... this underwater screenshot is pretty sexy, if I must say..and thanks for pointing that out ... f*ckers


In all honestly, if you guys think it looks "ok" most other folks will think it's pretty cool.
Feedback on my SwWorld map was enough to confirm that and I'm going to be going over that map and adding to it with more learned effects/techniques for the CPB. But I will move forward with the current feedback definitely in mind.

Or maybe just scratch all I've said and I should just be thankful some1 actually commented on my shit, lol.

[Sixty Four]

I admit i didn't read all posts but this thread is nice to look at i like the pics and its nice seeing mapping being discussed and something getting done for my bro Lowang. Thanks robman you are the shadow warrior and methy is being very involved as well. Bottom line looking forward to this big time i even wish some kind of mapster was made for SW i'm having troubles i feel like i'm downgrading in build being used to mapster so it's hard.

[Robman]

Thanks man, truth is I'm thankful for any feedback I receive. It's fun to crack open build and map most nights.

[MetHy]

Robman, on 30 August 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Don't forget I compare most of what I build to 90% of the other user maps that have been built for sw which a lot of are how do I say.. not impressive or use very little effects.

Yeah, I've had a look and I've only found a handful of SW maps of good quality, but none of them which I would consider great.

Personally I don't compare my SW map to other usermaps, but rather to official maps. I compare it to maps from the original game, and most of all, maps from Wanton Destruction and Twin Dragon because those have some of the bests SW maps ever. I think #Garden.map by Wieder, the 2nd map of WD, is the best SW map ever made.

[Hendricks266]

I wish I could share Deadly Kiss with you all. I enjoyed my playthrough quite a bit.

[Robman]

ooooh a wang tease eh?

[MetHy]

What's the status on that anyway? There hasn't been any news in a couple of years I think.

[Micky C]

Years? It wasn't that long ago when Hendricks and co. were working on it.

[MetHy]

I dunno, I haven't seen any 'official' news since http://swforum05.pro...ation-important and that's 3 years ago

[Jblade]

I hope that's a hint of a release on SW-Redux and not just general chatter