[High Treason]

Hmm, I'm sure I added a note 90-something minutes into the MIDI to ensure it did not loop...

[ck3D]

Floor 11 - Flesh

Lots of comments on here said this map looked pretty bland but i personally thought it was one of the moodiest levels of the pack so far. Granted it's merely a succession of rooms, but they look good, trimming is proper and it feels coherent, the darkness gives a very depressing, immersive feel to the floor. The progression feels pretty straightforward and the ride is short but sweet. Some cool firefights with enemies in just about every room.

[ck3D]

Floor 12 - poorman's library.

Talk about a trip. The map is less scary than i thought it was going to be from everyone's comments, but it definitely had its moments. The redudancy is what i liked the most - you keep being sent back to the same areas but it only gets weirder and weirder with variations on the gameplay everytime, nice plays on the feel of both dimensions (positive / negative ; normal / altered state) to the point where in the end you can no longer tell which is which. The familiarity a player naturally tends to develop with a level is hereby very nicely turned around with all those twists implemented throughout the progression. Moment where you try going through the same door three times only to be sent back to whatever mental hell you are in touch with in this map, the foot path section and that section with all the weird stairs / platforms in the dark were the best. Nice use of the echoing sounds, a very underrated feature in Duke. I was glad to finally make it out alive even though part of me was kind of expecting an ultimate, last-minute extra twist in the last room just before making it back to the blue lock

[ck3D]

Floor 13 - showcase

Thought this map's expansion onto another floor killed the sense of progression in the episode at first, then it sort of grew on me (especially as i eventually made it onto the other side of the door on the second floor, with a realistic overview of the first floor of the gallery then i realized i was close to that spot right from the start and understood the level layout a lot more), now i think it's good and breaks a monotony if anything. Pretty ambitious level with a noteworthy amount of eye-candy and a sweet, slick layout, sometimes to the point of realism. The gameplay has a great pace to it with some sweet firefights, although i pretty much wandered about everywhere until i got the blue key to make it out somehow and that's pretty much how all the progression goes - i hardly remember what i exactly did in the level besides cleaning up all the rooms of their vermin in succession and looped straight back to the start / end. So i guess you could call it intuitive and straightforward. Neat-looking level with good aesthetics, making yet again a good change from the previous, more moody and conceptual levels. Map order is top notch so far.

[ox-skull]

Fantastic work.

I have really enjoyed the maps created for DukeHard,

Im currently halfway through Rooftop (lvl16). Playing on Come get some. No cheats.

The sprite work is incredible. Some of the best ive seen, i remember the build days of sprite work having to 1 side it so there was no clipping, Now small structures can be made with no clipping sprites.

Many memorable fights, i recall 1 where u break the airvent and fall into small dinning room with 3 fat commanders.

Some fine duke memories.

Great stuff.

EDIT: i used dnclip at 1 point when i was stuck and didnt know what to do, but reloaded my save b4 i used it, does this mean i have to start the episode agian to unlock the unlockables.

[ck3D]

Floor 14 - legal joint

Classic-themed duke 3D level at its finest. This map is quite a departure from the eye-candy and novelties the previous ones contained, all for the better - this one really feels like it should have belonged to one of the original episodes, ie. as a secret map accessible from duke burger in ep.4 or something. Feels a tad like most user maps built in the early 2000's tended to feel too - Kevin Cools and Fakirbaba maps come to mind. A pretty action-packed level that doesn't go over the top as far as monster quantity goes, and relies on the effectiveness of the enemy placement instead ; you are in for a solid experience through a nicely thought-up layout with its fair share of interconnected rooms, à la original Duke once again. Texturing of the simple yet solid and clean style, with some good, nicely-contrasted shadows. Neat map overall

[ck3D]

Floor 15 - power out

Least favorite level of the pack as far as i am concerned. The locations looked good and the firefights were enjoyable at first, then everything started to become really redundant. The layout is confusing and started to feel like some kind of maze after a while, the rooms all look the same too and are equally dark, which doesn't help with orientation. Shooting those outdoor turrets was more fun than all those indoor ones in every room, although their abundance did help enhance the feel of being in for one of the ultimate levels of the pack - that rooftop has to be well-guarded, doesn't it ? Died a few times falling off the building i just spent my day climbing up. That hidden button was a bitch and made no sense at all, as well as the 'door' it opened and the drones right behind it - the spritework structure nearby and the automap did hint that something nearby was to be found but even then i kept missing it and it took me 30 mins to finally locate it after browsing through this thread looking for hints. Not good - killed my progression and all the fun i was having going through the map. It was driving me insane toward the end - i was trying to see potential hints in every aspect of the level design. Googled the answer to the secret level and got out. Not a bad map per se, combat was fun and it looked good - just not into that hidden switch and confusing layout.

[ck3D]

Floor -1 (secret) - Parking

One of the best maps of the pack. The design is awesome, classic and modern at the same time (classic as far as the texturing and layout go ; modern because of the cars, mission-oriented gameplay and little visual twists, ie. the electrical water, the unreachable outside area, and the little curves here and there). Everything from the aesthetics to the gameplay is typical Duke. The progression had a slick flow to it and goes hand-in-hand with the firefights which are perfectly implemented in a lovely open environment and enhanced by the means of accurate monster placement. The goal of the level unveils itself to the player pretty early on and it becomes quite clear what to do, even though i did get 'lost' twice due to missing buttons (my bad - guess i have played too many maps today and my brain can no longer register shit). Very nice-looking map with a satisfying ending.

[ck3D]

Rooftop (boss map)

Well that was the best possible way to end this map pack. Finally making it back into the open feels liberating and incredibly rewarding. Not to mention that the surrounding sights, and the rooftop itself, look incredible with tons of detail, general features and nooks and crannies in order to make the firefights more entertaining. Quite a lot of vertical action too which felt amazing. The little puzzle was well implemented and fun to figure out while triggering all the various respawns, even though the boss fight itself was, as usual in Duke, easy - due to the notoriously predictable nature of the Duke bosses' behaviors - yet satisfying. The ending sequence and the credits were a nice touch.

Anyway this truely is a great mod and i am very happy to be able to play through such a collection of jdistinct styles all gathered within one solid project. Everyone put in their best effort and it clearly shows. Thank you to everyone involved, specifically to MetHy for working so hard on the whole thing, filling in the gaps and fixing and wrapping it up. We made it happen people !

[ck3D]

High Treason, on 05 July 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Hmm, I'm sure I added a note 90-something minutes into the MIDI to ensure it did not loop...

it looped for me and played the tune on repeat the way it usually does in duke, but still thanks for your effort and really, don't sweat it. it is a minor detail which definitely doesn't warrant any further work or investigation - no need to try fixing (breaking ?) it again, it's fine to me the way it is right now. i guess it just means that my map's soundtrack was meant to play normally after all in the grand scheme of things

[Hendricks266]

High Treason, on 05 July 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Hmm, I'm sure I added a note 90-something minutes into the MIDI to ensure it did not loop...

When Daedolon was giving the mod a final once-over, he found some problems with the midis provided. A few were too loud and I made them quieter. Sign of Evil from Doom had been converted from the MUS incorrectly (the instruments were wrong) and I provided a fresh MIDI. And the one that was 1:30:00 long needed that fixed.

To be frank, it doesn't matter what you may have wanted--having the music stop after one loop is simply bad practice. Some players like myself take a long time to finish a map, and we wouldn't want to play for minutes on end in silence. Also, much like the old "white boxes on ATI" issue, no matter what you write in the documentation, you will get an endless stream of bug reports stating that the music on X map doesn't loop.

Spoiler

And to be even more honest, half the of the track choices deserved 10 public lashes for the mapper who chose it.

[ox-skull]

ck3D, on 05 July 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Floor 15 - power out

That hidden button was a bitch and made no sense at all, as well as the 'door' it opened and the drones right behind it.

This is the part i used dnclip at to give myself a clue as to how to proceed properly.

I accidently opened that door with the drones in it, god dam shat myself.

[ck3D]

Hendricks266, on 05 July 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

When Daedolon was giving the mod a final once-over, he found some problems with the midis provided. A few were too loud and I made them quieter. Sign of Evil from Doom had been converted from the MUS incorrectly (the instruments were wrong) and I provided a fresh MIDI. And the one that was 1:30:00 long needed that fixed.

To be frank, it doesn't matter what you may have wanted--having the music stop after one loop is simply bad practice. Some players like myself take a long time to finish a map, and we wouldn't want to play for minutes on end in silence. Also, much like the old "white boxes on ATI" issue, no matter what you write in the documentation, you will get an endless stream of bug reports stating that the music on X map doesn't loop.

Spoiler

And to be even more honest, half the of the track choices deserved 10 public lashes for the mapper who chose it.

my map is one of the few ones in the mod that heavily rely on its atmosphere by the means of weather effects / background thunder and a wide range of one-time and ambient sounds. the idea behind the track i picked was to serve as a sort of calming introduction for the first two minutes or so, then the mood of level was meant to become a lot more immersive as the music stopped. even though i see the point you are trying to make, fundamentally such choices have nothing to do with what could qualify as genuine 'bad practice' if they are made in order to compliment the mapper's vision and intention for his craft

also i wasn't only expecting but also actually anticipating potential bug reports about it, whatever catches people's attention and gets them to talk about the mod / interact with the mappers upon having played their work is good to me

[Jblade]

Hendricks266, on 05 July 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

And to be even more honest, half the of the track choices deserved 10 public lashes for the mapper who chose it.

I sincerely hope you're not hating on the Columns music I chose for my map good sir

[Hendricks266]

James, on 05 July 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

I sincerely hope you're not hating on the Columns music I chose for my map good sir

Nope, that was actually original. Props.

[Daedolon]

ck3D, on 05 July 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

the idea behind the track i picked was to serve as a sort of calming introduction for the first two minutes or so, then the mood of level was meant to become a lot more immersive as the music stopped.

I figured it as a corrupted midi file and asked for it to be "fixed". Will be reverted for the patch. Sorry about that.

[MetHy]

ox-skull, on 05 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

EDIT: i used dnclip at 1 point when i was stuck and didnt know what to do, but reloaded my save b4 i used it, does this mean i have to start the episode agian to unlock the unlockables.

If you loaded a no-cheats-used save after cheating, you should be fine and unlock it. Thanks for the feedback.

ck3D, on 05 July 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

Floor 01 - Lobby

[...] all the sector-based structures you could almost always interact with somehow
[...]Was this map inspired by the lobby of an apartment building you used to live in in Tours somehow ? It might be just my imagination but i thought that map had a subtle touch of Tours spirit to it.

Yes I like to add small interaction. It was part of what made DN3D awesome back when it was released and I like to carry on the idea. For instance, the water fountain (near the dispenser at the back of the first room), can be used if you have less than 100hp; and if you press use on all the decorative 'broken electrical devices' sprites, you'll be electrified, too. I don't believe many people will realize that, but it's there for the few who do and it only takes a few seconds to do it.

For the overall look, I was just thinking the other day that it indeed looked very west-european and not american at all. It wasn't really intentional, I indeed thought of a few big-building lobbies I've seen in my life as a postman while doing it; but it was only a loose vague inspiration, it's not based on any one real building.

ck3D, on 05 July 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Floor 15 - power out

[...]
That hidden button was a bitch and made no sense at all, as well as the 'door' it opened and the drones right behind it - the spritework structure nearby and the automap did hint that something nearby was to be found but even then i kept missing it and it took me 30 mins to finally locate it after browsing through this thread looking for hints. Not good - killed my progression and all the fun i was having going through the map. It was driving me insane toward the end - i was trying to see potential hints in every aspect of the level design. [...]

That's funny, I didn't think that button was that bad. For what it's worth I think some of the hidden stuff in some of your older maps are much harder to find

Anyway nice feedback!
And sorry about the midi, I had mentioned your intention was to keep it that way but it was have been lost in translation somewhere between everything that was going on and the other midis that needed fixing.

[Skulldog]

How does this work without map files or group file? Magic?

[Hendricks266]

The first two characters of the dukehard.dat file are 'PK'. Does that give you a hint?

[Steambull]

ox-skull, on 05 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

The sprite work is incredible. Some of the best ive seen, i remember the build days of sprite work having to 1 side it so there was no clipping, Now small structures can be made with no clipping sprites.

Well, I think most people are still using 1 side visibility for sprite structures because in classic mode they clip the same way as they always did. Of course more complex sprite structures can be made for Eduke's 32mbit mode without fear of issues, but that would force people to use said mode while playing the map - I for one prefer the classic mode's look by a mile.

[FTW23065]

Great mappack! Enjoyed a lot!

[Radar]

Thanks guys. It was a great episode from a team of great mappers. Finding the secret level was fun. I played on CGS, and it was not as hard as some were saying.

[Skulldog]

Hendricks266, on 06 July 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

The first two characters of the dukehard.dat file are 'PK'. Does that give you a hint?

Yes it does. My file type for *.dat was set to notepad.

[LeoD]

Finished! (finally) Great job by each and every person involved. My personal favourites are "Construction Destruction" and "Showcase".

[MetHy]

v1.1 available for download on modbb and MSDN (should soon be updated on duke4 as well) :

Quote

- fixed a good number of possibilities of getting randomly killed or stuck due to the environment; as well as a good number of other minor glitches and a few misaligned textures
- slightly updated credits and readme file

In other words it's not a MAJOR update but it gets rid of many possibilities of getting randomly squished or stuck; important credit and name changes (Micky C's map is now correctly spelled ) , a couple of important midi fixes, and also fixes a small number of minor misaligned textures and other glitches.

I'm sorry but there is no 'patch'; the full downloads were simply replaced by the new version; so you'll have to download the whole thing again if you want the truly final thing. It really wasn't worth the assle of making a v1.0->v1.1 patch.

For those who care (mainly so that mappers know exactly what was changed to their maps), here is the list of changes; or at least most changes as I'm sure I've forgotten a few very minor ones :

Spoiler

- Updated all credits (in game 'credits' screen; rolling credits during the ending; credits in the readme) :
*James' lastname added
* Daedolon added to special thanks
*added "credits video composited by Daedolon" in the readme credits
*Micky C removed from "special thanks" since it was put and left there due to a misunderstanding

- Other changes in the readme file :
*added Stumpy's "mapper comment"
*slighlty improved installation information
*slightly improved description of the difficulty settings (saying that skill2 is normal and skill3 is hard and that only experienced dukers should play skill3 on a first play)
*moved the part about the randomizer and how to unlock it from "misc episode info" to "important info" (so people know they must not cheat to unlock it)
*removed the part in "multiplayer" telling people they "can (but shouldn't) play the map individually in multiplayer in another sourceport" since half of the maps don't work well (or at all) in other sourceports, and since that may confuse people into thinking they can play the maps individually even in SP in other sourceports or dosduke
*clearly stating the episode (and even most maps, individually) will not run in [every-sourceport-name+dosduke] (even though one should have been able to understand that with all the "eduke32 only" everywhere)
*Saying that the elevator doors used in the parking and in power out were done by Micky C

- Musics :
*Fixed "nebel.mid" (of map02 "Executive") which was glitchy on some setups
*Fixed "twinpeak.mid" (of map09 "Commercial Break") : no longer loops (by Hendricks266)

- Map fixes :

dh01.map "Lobby" :
- can no longer go and get stuck inside the fish tank
- can no longer stand on top of High Treason's name on his mailbox
- fixed the plug sprite of the printer which had disappeared
- slightly moved the first Liztroop on the right so that he doesn't clip through the wall in 32bit video mode
- fixed the misaligned lamp texture of the 'downstairs' template area

dh02.map "Executive":
-Fixed the possibility of the crack leading to the yellow card not blowing up
-Fixed (or at least, made it even less likely to happen) the possiblity of getting squished by the part in between the blown up wall and crate
-Can no longer go into the fish tank
-Moved button of the round rotating laser room so that one can not push it without going around (done by Steambull)
-Changed par time from 9:30 to 8:30

dh03.map "Construction Destruction":
-fixed the possibility of getting squished when trying to go into a small electrical pannel


dh04.map "Bits" :
-fixed possibility of getting squished by the super computer before it's destroyed
-fixed possibility of the door not closing behind you when entering the super computer room (if you ran fast enough the touchplate wouldn't get activated;simply aimed the touchplate differently so that you don't have to WALK on the sector to activate it)
-fixed all the swing doors which would clip from certain angles (or at least, improved it very much, now may only clip for a split second when opening/closing)
-slightly moved those swing doors as well so that it's not possible anymore to shoot the enemies through the hole in between the doors and the wall (which used to be very tempting with that lonely closed-in pigcop)

dh05.map "Abstractech" (all fixes under Micky C's agreement):
-Changed mapname from "Abstratech" to "Abstractech" (readme file + in-game)
-Deleted a lonely useless untagged SE
-Fixed sector warp due to the piston secret : Removed secret + put blockable outer wall to prevent crouch jumping into piston
-Fixed the 3rd 2way train button which used to be really hard to use
-Made the invisible blocking sprites around the circular rotating room with the screens 1-sided facing outward so the player can't get stuck between them.
-Changed the use/placement of the buttons of that same room to how it was in an earlier version of the map : outside button opens/closes the door (with the door closed at the start) ; added a shootable button in the inside of the room which rotates the room
-Due to this last changed; changed the coop only button from "controlling door" to "controlling room rotation" so coop players left behind can do both ; + put that same coop only button on the other side of the room as well

dh06.map "CEO Bathhouse":
-Fixed misaligned texture of the ceiling lamp (template starting area)
-Fixed the misaligned lamp texture of the 'downstairs' template area

dh07.map "Storage Wars":
-Fixed weaponless coop start (there was no hurtfloor)
-Fixed the 'electricity-danger-symbol-sprite" in the last room (by Stumpy)
-Added another small box next to that last room to hide the invisible-blocking wall (by Stumpy)

dh08.map "Eat The Rich" (fixes done by Forge):
-Fixed the jump to the vents in the freezer (which may or may not make the jump impossible in other duke3D ports/dosduke and in future eduke32 versions? Hard to tell though; i've run some tests and that same jump is sometimes possible; sometimes not; using the same port, weird shit but anyway may not be a problem anymore)
-Fixed possibility of getting squished by a mirror
-Fixed possibility of getting squished against a small part of the upperwall in one of the room
-Fixed possibiilty of going on the unreachable balcony

dh10.map "Cinematic Lounge":
-Fixed weaponless coop start (some were on top of each others which may or may not result in friendly spawn deaths with friendly fire on?)

dh12.map "Poormann's Library":
-Fixed ceiling lamp of the template, which was 'cut' a little in a diagonal way


dh14.map "Legal Joint" (all fixes by Daedolon):
- Fixed the possibility of the player glitching through some windows (to prevent people from skipping major portions of the level).
- Changed "C" in the ventilation shaft to "?" to prevent confusion.
- Removed an alien egg that the player never got to see.

dhsl.map "Parking":
-Fixed the back of Micky C's car : deleted the remaining letters (sorry but i'm not having the text; the recommendation is in the readme though) + moved the plate up a bit + fixed texture getting misaligned between 8bit/32bit
-Fixed Cage's car : some sprites on both sides of the car had disappeared by going 'into' the car
-Fixed HT's car : the smoke was 'into' the car
-Added a fast GSPeed to the 3 buttons of the power room to try and prevent the possibility of shooting them twice (for example with a chaingun)

There; this is finally DONE (unless multiplayer issues come up once eduke32's netplay works; Damnit.... ).

[LeoD]

MetHy, on 08 July 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

I'm sorry but there is no 'patch'; the full downloads were simply replaced by the new version; so you'll have to download the whole thing again if you want the truly final thing. It really wasn't worth the assle of making a v1.0->v1.1 patch.

40MiB is no big deal nowadays, indeed.

[MetHy]

Also; thanks to anyone involved in those fixes (either by reporting the issues or doing the fixes themslves) and special thanks to Daedolon for putting the whole thing together again and bearing with me sending some more loose updates at the end.

I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular (nor am I thinking of anyone), but just in case a mapper wants to make a big fuss out of such trivial fixes done on his map : whatever, I don't care, please understand this DEFINITELY wasn't worth the trouble of getting everybody to do the fixes themselves and keeping track of what's done/not-yet-done, etc etc I made that list of changes so you know exactly what was done (and so that some don't flip their shit checking every bit of their map trying to figure out what I may have changed) and you probably wouldn't have noticed the changes had I not told you what exactly was done. Thank you.

[TerminX]

MetHy, on 08 July 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Also; thanks to anyone involved in those fixes (either by reporting the issues or doing the fixes themslves) and special thanks to Daedolon for putting the whole thing together again and bearing with me sending some more loose updates at the end.

I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular (nor am I thinking of anyone), but just in case a mapper wants to make a big fuss out of such trivial fixes done on his map : whatever, I don't care, please understand this DEFINITELY wasn't worth the trouble of getting everybody to do the fixes themselves and keeping track of what's done/not-yet-done, etc etc I made that list of changes so you know exactly what was done (and so that some don't flip their shit checking every bit of their map trying to figure out what I may have changed) and you probably wouldn't have noticed the changes had I not told you what exactly was done. Thank you.

Fun fact: in Duke Nukem 3D, monster/item placement and gameplay balance wasn't always done by the map authors themselves.

[MetHy]

TerminX, on 08 July 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Fun fact: in Duke Nukem 3D, monster/item placement and gameplay balance wasn't always done by the map authors themselves.

??

No gameplay balancing was touched by me in this updated or even in the episode altogether (besides a couple of items in Dukebot's map under his approval before the original release because he was too busy to do it ; oh and besides asking everybody to give a 30hp at the end of every single map) though of course I suggested a lot during betatesting.
The changes done to other people's maps are for example making a wall blockable to avoid the possibility of getting crushed or ending up stuck in the decor. Any more important fix was done under the mapper's agreement like in Micky C's map. Which is why I decided to do it myself because it was definitly not worth going around ask everybody just so they press "B" on a single wall, and then wait 3 weeks to recieve the final B'd wall in my PM box.

Even the misaligned textures, I could have fixed quite a lot but it's none of my business; the only I fixed were the ceiling lamps of the template area which were misaligned probably due to moving the area a bit.

[Hendricks266]

MetHy, on 08 July 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

v1.1 available for download on modbb and MSDN (should soon be updated on duke4 as well) :

Dukeworld updated.

MetHy, on 08 July 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

*Fixed "twinpeak.mid" (of map09 "Commercial Break") : no longer loops (by Daedolon)

I did that. :V

I started again from High Treason's extended version and merely quieted the drum track as I had done before.

MetHy, on 08 July 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

There; this is finally DONE (unless multiplayer issues come up once eduke32's netplay works; Damnit.... ).

There is more room for improvement under the hood, but nothing pressing. The methods Daedolon and I used to achieve some things are hackish as hell--particularly the randomizer selection in the menu and the cutscenes. If/when better and cleaner methods are implemented, we can patch stuff in.