[Ninety-Six]

Morpheus Kitami, on 20 April 2022 - 08:09 PM, said:

Huh, guess it was remastered at some point...but wait, Myk Friedman...is that...? The Isle of the Dead artist. What the fuck.

Wait, for real?

[MObreck]

Morpheus Kitami, on 20 April 2022 - 08:09 PM, said:

So hang on, there were multiple attempts at making a Simpsons mod for Doom? I thought there was only one, and that one was known for being made from legit scanned drawings, sort of like how the show was actually made.
Looked it up on the Doom wiki...
https://doomwiki.org...e_Simpsons_Doom
Huh, guess it was remastered at some point...but wait, Myk Friedman...is that...? The Isle of the Dead artist. What the fuck.

Yes, the original in the video I posted was released in the mid 90s. The same team that did the original also released a mod based on the Tick cartoon:



In both mods the SS Nazi was replaced by Shaggy. No relation to any memes about the character.

[Tea Monster]

MObreck, on 11 April 2022 - 12:41 AM, said:

Warning: The sound effects can get a bit obnoxious. That was actually a pretty common trend for DOOM mods created back then:

Having played Simpsons and Barney Doom, I think this gets filed under "It's a feature not a bug"

MObreck, on 11 April 2022 - 12:41 AM, said:

Unfortunately Viacom got their copyright panties in a bunch and shut this mod down. The ByteBrother disappeared from DOOM modding shortly after. It has pretty much vanished from the internet since then. But with some searching I managed to find copy so I thought I'd showcase this forgotten piece of DOOM history.

That's ridiculous and sad that Viacom would go after them like that.

[Ninety-Six]

Tea Monster, on 21 April 2022 - 12:21 AM, said:

That's ridiculous and sad that Viacom would go after them like that.

But consistent with their behavior.

Good to know that they were just as bunch of asshats then as they are now.

[Ninety-Six]

Looks like Extermination Day is finally going to be finished. Even if I'm not a fan of how Mark handled the Tormentor situation, I do still separate the work from the artist and in this case I do still love Brutal Doom, and I have been waiting for ages to see EDay finished.

[Morpheus Kitami]

Ninety-Six, on 20 April 2022 - 08:14 PM, said:

Wait, for real?

I'm like 90% sure, since it seems to be the same animation style. (The remake, not the original, seems to clash a bit between the two styles, but eh) I can't be entirely certain because searching for his name on Doomworld and Zdoom forums gets me a moderator who definitely isn't him. I do know for certain that Friedman did web animation afterwards, as confirmed by a post on his Tumblr back when he was still alive. I find this new information (I knew the rest of this beforehand) somewhat amusing. From making knockoffs to making mods, what will I find out next of his career?

[MObreck]

I've been working on expanding Impie's formerly scrapped sequel to Arkista's Ring. Managed to get the rough draft of my first stage done. Its an underwater fortress style stage:



Impie completed 3 areas before shelving the project. Being his prequel was only 7 stages things are off to a go start. Its been fun seeing what I can do with ZScript, as well as the GZDoom map and shader systems.

[Doom64hunter]

Ninety-Six, on 27 March 2022 - 08:09 AM, said:

my favorite part about that particular aspect is that they accuse the build community of putting visuals before gameplay, and yet every single write-up is 90% fellating the author for their visuals, and maybe a sentence about how it plays...

I recently played B.P.R.D.'s Grove, and it honestly has to be the absolute pinnacle of this.

There's nothing fun about the map. It's basically a glorified switch hunt ("""Myst-like puzzle level""" my fucking ass) in a map so chock-full of tree sprites it makes Zaxtor's rainforests look like a garden.



The map is completely dark throughout, and in software mode the framerate tanks because of the number of tree sprites.
You're forced to find almost invisible switches and have nearly no ammo to deal with anything. In particular, there's a mandatory switch that's attached to a tiny step inside a cave that you will never find without opening the level editor.
You will spend an extensive period aimlessly walking back and forth in a relatively small map with no idea where to go. Truly the absolute pinnacle of an experience.

But it's got an orange sky so it's mysterious and atmospheric!!!11

Nothing better exemplifies how unbelievably pretentious the Doom community is than the fact that this won a Cacoward in 2004, got listed as the 97th "most memorable map" in 25 Years of Doom, and still gets praise today, such as in mtpain27's recent videos.

Yet to anyone who isn't completely high off his own farts, this map seems like a jokewad.

[Ninety-Six]

Doom64hunter, on 28 April 2022 - 05:31 PM, said:

Yet to anyone who isn't completely high off his own farts, this map seems like a jokewad.

Incidentally, wasn't BPRD also behind the Nuts series of jokewads?

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 28 April 2022 - 06:47 PM, said:

Incidentally, wasn't BPRD also behind the Nuts series of jokewads?

Yes. But Nuts.wad was never meant to be anything more than an experiment. It was just made by the author to experiment how to upload a wad to idgames archive though the FTP. He did that so that he could correctly upload Equinox (his actual serious wad) to idgames.

But as fate would have it, his Nuts.wad would become far far more popular than his serious wad. And thus, he ended up also making Nuts 2 and 3.

Also:

Doom64hunter, on 28 April 2022 - 05:31 PM, said:

Nothing better exemplifies how unbelievably pretentious the Doom community is than the fact that this won a Cacoward in 2004, got listed as the 97th "most memorable map" in 25 Years of Doom, and still gets praise today, such as in mtpain27's recent videos.

While I am not going to comment about Grove (as I haven't played it), I will say that even among the Doom community, his maps are divisive. Fans of his maps as they are very distinct and atmospheric (especially groove) while those who don't like his maps say that the gameplay is really weak. So your take will hardly be considered a hot take, even in the Doom community.

Also, while the map was designed for ZDoom, I don't think it uses any of ZDoom's features and so may also run on stuff like DSDA-Doom (its a fork of PrBoom+) while providing a much better framerate

[ImpieTheThird]

Doom64hunter, on 28 April 2022 - 05:31 PM, said:

I recently played B.P.R.D.'s Grove, and it honestly has to be the absolute pinnacle of this.

There's nothing fun about the map....Yet to anyone who isn't completely high off his own farts, this map seems like a jokewad.

Man I'm glad to hear someone else share my feelings on this one. It looks cool and sucks otherwise. The whole reason for the darkness was so you could see the outline of the trees in silhouette against the sky. Great reason to sacrifice visibility and gameplay.

The only thing i liked about it was the chaingunner you can't see but whose leaf-crunching gives away his location. That was neat.

In other news:

[jkas789]

MObreck, on 22 April 2022 - 05:05 PM, said:

I've been working on expanding Impie's formerly scrapped sequel to Arkista's Ring. Managed to get the rough draft of my first stage done. Its an underwater fortress style stage:



Impie completed 3 areas before shelving the project. Being his prequel was only 7 stages things are off to a go start. Its been fun seeing what I can do with ZScript, as well as the GZDoom map and shader systems.

Oooh, interesting. I will be keeping a eye on this one mate.

Btw @Impie Those chickens look absolutely adorable dude!

About Grove I can't really comment. I played it once but my taco fueled brain was incapable of figuring it out, so I dropped it and went to play something else. Unless your name is Portal, puzzle games and I don't really mesh that well.

[ImpieTheThird]

jkas789, on 30 April 2022 - 07:14 AM, said:

About Grove I can't really comment. I played it once but my taco fueled brain was incapable of figuring it out, so I dropped it and went to play something else. Unless your name is Portal, puzzle games and I don't really mesh that well.

Trust me, it wasn't you that was the problem.

[ImpieTheThird]

The cutscenes have stepped up a bit.

Surprisingly I got them to work on the first try. Usually anything i try to do in Doom likes to fight me tooth and claw before it finally works.

[ImpieTheThird]

Got enough of Dinah 3 done to showcase the new environments I'm gonna include. Still a work in progress, but I'm pretty happy with how the story is turning out, with Dinah trying to rescue her mom's soul from a terrible afterlife.

[NightFright]

Found in the Doomworld forum that Romero is about to publish his autobiography in January. He can remember even little details of his life due to a medical condition (hyperthymesia), so expect things to be thoroughly described. I guess we can expect some kind of "Masters of Doom" from Romero's perspective, so this might be worth your time and money if you are interested in Doom background stuff.

[MrFlibble]

I've always appreciated that Romero is not only a talented map designer, but can also describe his design principles and the way he works on the maps in a clear, accessible fashion. Being able to clearly express oneself is a talent too, so I expect this to be an interesting and valuable read indeed!

[ImpieTheThird]

MrFlibble, on 10 May 2022 - 03:51 AM, said:

I've always appreciated that Romero is not only a talented map designer, but can also describe his design principles and the way he works on the maps in a clear, accessible fashion. Being able to clearly express oneself is a talent too, so I expect this to be an interesting and valuable read indeed!

I second this. That the guy who spearheaded one of the greatest and most influential games of all time can articulate how he went about it is invaluable to other game designers.

[Radar]

NightFright, on 09 May 2022 - 09:34 PM, said:

Found in the Doomworld forum that Romero is about to publish his autobiography in January. He can remember even little details of his life due to a medical condition (hyperthymesia), so expect things to be thoroughly described. I guess we can expect some kind of "Masters of Doom" from Romero's perspective, so this might be worth your time and money if you are interested in Doom background stuff.

It should be noted that hyperthymesia is an extremely rare condition that is medically described as severe OCD in the brain and is incredibly destructive. There are only 60 confirmed cases in the world. Pretty sure Romero is exaggerating there.

[jkas789]

ImpieTheThird, on 09 May 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

Got enough of Dinah 3 done to showcase the new environments I'm gonna include. Still a work in progress, but I'm pretty happy with how the story is turning out, with Dinah trying to rescue her mom's soul from a terrible afterlife.

Oh God damn it, that looks so good. I really need to finish Appetite for Detention. It's just that between people getting a machete to their arms/legs or getting shot I just can't seem to get a break from the hospital.

[ImpieTheThird]

jkas789, on 12 May 2022 - 06:58 PM, said:

Oh God damn it, that looks so good. I really need to finish Appetite for Detention. It's just that between people getting a machete to their arms/legs or getting shot I just can't seem to get a break from the hospital.

Goddamn I don't envy your job. I see gruesome enough shit in the veterinary field.

[Ninety-Six]

My curiosity got the better of me and I decided to spin up TNTD's beta just to toy around with.

And wow, I amazed. At how they completely ballsed up what should have been a simple story.


Doom plots can be many things. They can even be stupid. But what they should never be is confusing. I went down an absolute rabbit hole trying to find answers to questions, only to find more questions with the first questions never being addressed.

In a Doom plot the player should never have to ask, "where am I" or "what am I doing" or "when did that happen?!". Especially not one that aims to be the official sequel to an IWAD.


I can already see the main counterpoints. It's a beta. It's Doom who cares about the plot.

Well, to that first point I don't see anyone else bringing up how nonsensical the plot is. And to the second, well, why even call it the sequel to TNT then? They're not trying to emulate TNT at all in terms of gameplay or visuals, so the only connecting thread would be the plot. So if the plot doesn't matter, then this wad has literally nothing to do with TNT and should just drop the name.


I wouldn't even be posting about this, but I like TNT, and if this is supposed to be the "better" sequel vs. Revilution (which also had problems but I can at least say I was never completely lost on what was happening), then it's doing a really bad job of showing it so far. A dumb plot is one thing. A nonsense plot is another.

[jkas789]

Question. Are there any doom user maps or gameplay mods that give a nice stealth experience in Doom? I'm asking because I have been on MGS Peace Walker bender lately on my PS Vita in my breaks. I know that Metal Gear Doom existed (and in fact you can grab I believe version 4.0 here ) however that is dead now and aside from more MGS V, 3 and PW I have nothing else my tactical espionage/action itch.

Any recommendations or advice on how to build this up would be greatly appreciated folks.

On another news I finally had the time to play Appetite for Detention yesterday and man that was so damn fun. Good job Impie!

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2022 - 07:47 AM, said:

I can already see the main counterpoints. It's a beta. It's Doom who cares about the plot.

Well, to that first point I don't see anyone else bringing up how nonsensical the plot is. And to the second, well, why even call it the sequel to TNT then? They're not trying to emulate TNT at all in terms of gameplay or visuals, so the only connecting thread would be the plot. So if the plot doesn't matter, then this wad has literally nothing to do with TNT and should just drop the name.

I think you are just nitpicking here now . The original TNT didn't have a great plot either and I don't see how Devilution's plot is more confusing or nonsense than it either (well apart from map30, but the author's comment about the plot of the map made things clear). The maps might not be exactly like original TNT, but neither did Revilution. I feel that Devilution's maps are arguably somewhat more TNT-ish in their visuals and feel than Revilution.

Ninety-Six, on 14 May 2022 - 07:47 AM, said:

if this is supposed to be the "better" sequel vs. Revilution (which also had problems but I can at least say I was never completely lost on what was happening), then it's doing a really bad job of showing it so far. A dumb plot is one thing. A nonsense plot is another.

It's not necessarily supposed to be the "better" sequel tho. It is just an alternate sequel. Whether one likes Devilution more or Revilution is down to preference. I like Revilution, but I think I might take Devilution over it once the beta issues are ironed out and map26 is released.

[Ninety-Six]

ReaperAA, on 16 May 2022 - 10:59 PM, said:

I think you are just nitpicking here now . The original TNT didn't have a great plot either and I don't see how Devilution's plot is more confusing or nonsense than it either

For starters, if you removed almost the entirety of episode 2 (Maps 13-19), the plot would make more sense.


Normally I would call this nitpicking, but as I said, a player should never be left confused. The original TNT's plot was extremely basic, sure, and that's fine, because the plot was "you're pissed off, go get revenge." Nothing confusing about that, nor where you are. You just go from building to building on this distant starbase until Hell starts taking over the moon. Simple.

Except TNT:D seems to think it should complicate the plot and introduce insane concepts like time travel and whatever the hell is going on in Map30, which would also be fine if it made any sort of sense?

Spoiler

1. Where the hell are we in episode 2? We "go up." Up where?! Up into space, where there's ground, an ocean and a city?! Where the hell did any of that come from?!
2. When the hell did we time travel? At what point did we end up in the future?! When we jumped into the sky at the end of Map11? Gee, it sure would have been nice to see that. I mean it's not like the original TNT had an entire map dedicated to that concept or anything.
3. Why are we even in the future?! What purpose does that serve?! What are we supposed to do here?! Or alternatively, what are we supposed to see in the future that we wouldn't have seen staying in the present?! Is it that supposed to justify the floating city that was built on...
3.5. What the hell is it built on?! See question 1. If the future aspect is to justify the city then maybe that should be explained somewhere. And why a city was built above a moon apparently crawling with hellspawn. ...And how the hellspawn got up there.
4. Apparently there were "time travel elements" added to Map20. Where?! I didn't see anything like that. Is the mapper just confused? Wouldn't surprise me considering how seemingly out of the loop the mappers were for the entire beta version of the project.
5. If the syringes were supposed to have been "injecting" the TNT project beneath the lifeform to study it undetected, what is the base doing there on the surface anyway? Y'know, that place we spent the entirety of the original TNT and episode 1 of D on?

This would be all nitpicking if it wasn't actually distracting. When an entire episode feels like a waste of time as you just seem to derp around completely disconnected from what you're supposed to be doing, there's a big problem.

It genuinely feels like this plot is incredibly slapdash, more slapdash than TNT:R's which is a feat since that whole final release was actually slapdashed, while this had years to be developed.

[Doom64hunter]

I gotta be honest, you're best off ignoring story on anything that says "vanilla-compatible" or "boom-compatible".

These megawads are almost always focused around the gameplay and not the story experience.
If you want the latter to play a greater role (or even make any sense) you need to look towards ZDoom mods.

[Ninety-Six]

Doom64hunter, on 17 May 2022 - 01:42 AM, said:

I gotta be honest, you're best off ignoring story on anything that says "vanilla-compatible" or "boom-compatible".

I've seen plenty of vanilla and boom wads that make sense. For crissake the Plutonia sequels make sense.

I'm not asking for shakespeare, here. The bare minimum is making sure the player doesn't have to ask where the hell they even are at the most basic level. Which TNTD fails at.

Like I said, a basic story, or a stupid story are one thing. Nonsense plots are another. And I wouldn't even bother thinking about it if they weren't calling it TNT 2.

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 17 May 2022 - 01:10 AM, said:

For starters, if you removed almost the entirety of episode 2 (Maps 13-19), the plot would make more sense.


Normally I would call this nitpicking, but as I said, a player should never be left confused. The original TNT's plot was extremely basic, sure, and that's fine, because the plot was "you're pissed off, go get revenge." Nothing confusing about that, nor where you are. You just go from building to building on this distant starbase until Hell starts taking over the moon. Simple.

Except TNT:D seems to think it should complicate the plot and introduce insane concepts like time travel and whatever the hell is going on in Map30, which would also be fine if it made any sort of sense?

Spoiler

1. Where the hell are we in episode 2? We "go up." Up where?! Up into space, where there's ground, an ocean and a city?! Where the hell did any of that come from?!
2. When the hell did we time travel? At what point did we end up in the future?! When we jumped into the sky at the end of Map11? Gee, it sure would have been nice to see that. I mean it's not like the original TNT had an entire map dedicated to that concept or anything.
3. Why are we even in the future?! What purpose does that serve?! What are we supposed to do here?! Or alternatively, what are we supposed to see in the future that we wouldn't have seen staying in the present?! Is it that supposed to justify the floating city that was built on...
3.5. What the hell is it built on?! See question 1. If the future aspect is to justify the city then maybe that should be explained somewhere. And why a city was built above a moon apparently crawling with hellspawn. ...And how the hellspawn got up there.
4. Apparently there were "time travel elements" added to Map20. Where?! I didn't see anything like that. Is the mapper just confused? Wouldn't surprise me considering how seemingly out of the loop the mappers were for the entire beta version of the project.
5. If the syringes were supposed to have been "injecting" the TNT project beneath the lifeform to study it undetected, what is the base doing there on the surface anyway? Y'know, that place we spent the entirety of the original TNT and episode 1 of D on?

This would be all nitpicking if it wasn't actually distracting. When an entire episode feels like a waste of time as you just seem to derp around completely disconnected from what you're supposed to be doing, there's a big problem.

It genuinely feels like this plot is incredibly slapdash, more slapdash than TNT:R's which is a feat since that whole final release was actually slapdashed, while this had years to be developed.

While I am not a dev for the project, I think I can still try to answer some of your questions from what I understood:

Spoiler

2. I believe we time travel at the end of Map11. To your credit, it was not obvious to me either that we time travel until after reading the intermission.
3. I believe Doomguy is in search of a means to be able to stop the demons once and for all from creating another IoS. By finding a means... any means to destroy the moon to end the cycle. Travelling to the future might have been a last ditch attempt by doomguy to find a way of doing so.

4. I don't recall another time travel happening on map20. The only thing is that at then end, we return to the area that we see at the end of Map01. Only this time, it is more corrupted because we are in future.
5. Afaik, the TNT project that was injecting the lifeform was the 2nd expeditionary research team sent by UAC. The bases in original TNT and Devilution's E1 were created by the original research team who had not idea about the demons and subsequently got wiped out by them. Those bases had remained abandoned ever since. The 2nd team, knowing about this, created the hidden "injected" base again to remain hidden.

Now coming to questions 1 and 3.5. I don't exactly know if the the base (and the city) is on the surface or in space (hey it is future, so it might be possible to have lakes and stuff).

If it is in the space (which seemed likely to me, if the ending of Map12 is to go by), then it is likely that it was created by the 2nd team to keep themselves safe and undetected from demons. Maybe the humans thought that staying in space would keep them undetected since they thought demons are dumb? Don't know, I am speculating here.

It is also possible that those space bases and city were created by the 1st expeditionary team

[Ninety-Six]

ReaperAA, on 17 May 2022 - 03:01 AM, said:

While I am not a dev for the project, I think I can still try to answer some of your questions from what I understood:

Spoiler

2. I believe we time travel at the end of Map11. To your credit, it was not obvious to me either that we time travel until after reading the intermission.
3. I believe Doomguy is in search of a means to be able to stop the demons once and for all from creating another IoS. By finding a means... any means to destroy the moon to end the cycle. Travelling to the future might have been a last ditch attempt by doomguy to find a way of doing so.

4. I don't recall another time travel happening on map20. The only thing is that at then end, we return to the area that we see at the end of Map01. Only this time, it is more corrupted because we are in future.
5. Afaik, the TNT project that was injecting the lifeform was the 2nd expeditionary research team sent by UAC. The bases in original TNT and Devilution's E1 were created by the original research team who had not idea about the demons and subsequently got wiped out by them. Those bases had remained abandoned ever since. The 2nd team, knowing about this, created the hidden "injected" base again to remain hidden.

Now coming to questions 1 and 3.5. I don't exactly know if the the base (and the city) is on the surface or in space (hey it is future, so it might be possible to have lakes and stuff).

If it is in the space (which seemed likely to me, if the ending of Map12 is to go by), then it is likely that it was created by the 2nd team to keep themselves safe and undetected from demons. Maybe the humans thought that staying in space would keep them undetected since they thought demons are dumb? Don't know, I am speculating here.

It is also possible that those space bases and city were created by the 1st expeditionary team

Spoiler

2. You'd think for all their love of setpieces they'd have done something. Especially since, again, the original TNT had a concept that was basically gift-wrapped for the TNT:D guys to mark the transition into the future. Even if just a bit for the ending. As it stands, the super secret Map33 seems more like an ending to the episode, given that you end in a strange device and that it's almost like a past version of Map14.
3. His goal is clearly stated to just "blow up the carrier." And instead of the elevator taking him up to the ship, which would be more logical, it instead goes... to a grassy field? In space? Regardless, there's no reason for Doomguy to go to the future if his mission is to blow up the carrier.
5. Why would they build a space city when the carrier that destroyed the first base was still just...sitting there for the past however long it's been?

[ReaperAA]

Ninety-Six, on 17 May 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

Spoiler

2. You'd think for all their love of setpieces they'd have done something. Especially since, again, the original TNT had a concept that was basically gift-wrapped for the TNT:D guys to mark the transition into the future. Even if just a bit for the ending. As it stands, the super secret Map33 seems more like an ending to the episode, given that you end in a strange device and that it's almost like a past version of Map14.
3. His goal is clearly stated to just "blow up the carrier." And instead of the elevator taking him up to the ship, which would be more logical, it instead goes... to a grassy field? In space? Regardless, there's no reason for Doomguy to go to the future if his mission is to blow up the carrier.
5. Why would they build a space city when the carrier that destroyed the first base was still just...sitting there for the past however long it's been?

Spoiler

2. Can't disagree here.
3. Okay, upon rereading the intermission screens, you are right about doomguy trying to find a way to destroy the carrier, not the planet. I didn't pay attention to that part. Maybe doomguy thought that destroying that would end the demons, but then at the end of Map20 (when he reaches the Map1 area), he enters the hidden passage after hearing the voice of darkness (confirming to Doomguy that there is still work to do). The passage then I believe leads him to the surface of the moon, in the older abandoned bases until he finally finds his way to the newer 2nd expedition base at Map30. I'll admit I am a bit confused about it too, but I 'think' that's what happens.
5. As I mentioned, the space city might even have been made by the 1st expedition. It is not stated when it was made. And its possible that the city was made to house the families of the employees. I am just speculating here.

And its also a possibility that the 2nd expedition made the city. As for why they didn't regain the first base on the ground, they might be afraid that demons are still there. Speculating