[----]

zwieback, on 25 February 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

i sign this post - i think that this is very close to the truth of what happened.

I think so too.

I remember a post on this forum where wieder (or somebody else with GBX insight) mentioned that GBX themselves thought that DNF was great when they saw it internally ... which in turn backs up what I said earlier that I doubt they can make a good shooter when they thought DNF was one.

[Micky C]

Yeah when I first played DNF I thought it was great, probably as a result of a mixture of nostalgia and the sheer amazement that I was actually playing DNF. Of course no matter how good or bad the game is, it still has virtually zero replayability due to how different aspects of the game are structured.

[necroslut]

Micky C, on 25 February 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Yeah when I first played DNF I thought it was great, probably as a result of a mixture of nostalgia and the sheer amazement that I was actually playing DNF. Of course no matter how good or bad the game is, it still has virtually zero replayability due to how different aspects of the game are structured.

I've replayed it eight or nine times, so it has to have some replayability...

[The Commander]

Or you don't know what a decent game is...

The only time I reinstalled DNF was to extract some sound files from the game.

[Micky C]

I played through it at least twice, possibly even 3 times I'm ashamed to say. This was all pretty soon after release before the fanboy goggles decomposed.

I probably tried getting back into it since then, but can't really play for more than a minute without remembering some of the huge problems which would a clamp on enjoyment, and realize there are much better games I could be playing, or things to do in real life.

[The Commander]

If it came with some SDK tools that were promised then it would have had some replayability.

[----]

I replayed The Doctor Who Cloned Me twice, though. It was much better and shorter.

[Micky C]

I tried playing TDWCM a second time, and although it's better overall, it still does carry over a few core problems from the main game and I didn't get too far into it.

[-Rhetro-]

After the whole situation with Reloaded, Interceptor seems pretty naïve to go ahead and start working on this new Duke.

I have lurked these forums for the better part of 4 years now, following the threads and reading all these topics and problems. From what I can tell, maybe Interceptor did get tricked by 3DR but at the end of the day, after them working on a project (Reloaded) that in turn became something they could never release, you think after they burned themselves with that one, they might actually get some form of a written communication whereas everyone is green lighting this new Duke project.

You cant sit there and tell me if your Fresch or whoever else is running Interceptor that it would be acceptable, given your past history, and the past history of the companies you associate with, to launch this site, develop this game, start building hype, all because 3DR said it was okay. Clearly Gearbox doesn't think its okay, and Interceptor should have known better. They should have known that 3DR doesn't make the decision on and Duke IP.

I know that and I am just some dude up in Canada that follows these forums.

I have given everyone the benefit of the doubt when reading here. I have never gone on here to trash anybody and I really don't plan on ever doing that. But as an entrepreneur myself, with a successful business, I just don't know how someone like Fresch or the entire Interceptor crew could have such a dumb thought process on the matter. They look so desperate to try and get these things going, maybe fix their image a bit, but they are going about it in a way where now, they look like complete clowns.

Fresch don't even bother posting here, I can't ever believe another thing that comes from you or your weak company. You have proven inexperience, and really unprofessionalism by this last debacle. Take dudes advice from above: develop and IP, shut up about it, release it and disappear. YOU DONT NEED TO BE THE HAILED HERO. If you truly want a Duke game do that. Its time to shit or get off the pot and stop wasting everyones time.

[necroslut]

The thing everyone still seems to miss is that, as part of the IP deal, 3D Realms got the rights to finish the Duke games they already had in production. The dispute is whether this is one of those games, Gearbox claims it isn't.

[-Rhetro-]

Why would 3DR have waited until now to do it then? That could very well be the truth, however it is still not an excuse for 3DR to do that without confirming with GBX. When they dealt with the C&D it seemed to me that they were admitting they got caught. I guess we will have to wait and see.

This is how 3DR and Interceptor have handled this situation though:

[necroslut]

-Rhetro-, on 25 February 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Why would 3DR have waited until now to do it then? That could very well be the truth, however it is still not an excuse for 3DR to do that without confirming with GBX. When they dealt with the C&D it seemed to me that they were admitting they got caught. I guess we will have to wait and see.

3DR aren't exactly quick to get their games out. ;; If they had the rights, then they would not have to ask GBX for permission. But yeah, we'll see how this plays out.

[Richard Shead]

-Rhetro-, on 25 February 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Why would 3DR have waited until now to do it then? That could very well be the truth, however it is still not an excuse for 3DR to do that without confirming with GBX. When they dealt with the C&D it seemed to me that they were admitting they got caught. I guess we will have to wait and see.

This is how 3DR and Interceptor have handled this situation though:

Sounds like a plan, as long as they can do it without Broussard getting in one of those outfits!

[Steveeeie]

I don't believe 'Survivor*' has ever been a real game. I believe that 3D Realms made up the idea for 'Survivor*' for the IP sale,
so they could freely make a new duke game when they fancied making one.

I believe 3D Realms led Interceptor on knowing that if they received a c&d from Gearbox then all they have to
do is hold there hands up, stop production and not care that another team has had to cover costs of its staff on a promise.

I agree with others that Interceptor were naive to not contact the IP owner regarding the use of their IP before
commencing development.

I guess its also worth mentioning that Interceptor have worked through 3D Realms before, so that may have contributed to the trust factor.


*Survivor - I read the legal docs the other day .. can't remember if this is what it was called

[DukeNukem64]

For some reason i can't open the files.
Did 3D Realms apologize for using the IP wrongly, or are they saying that this is in-fact the so-called ''survivor'' Duke Nukem game? I am really wondering, so if anyone could explain this i would be happy.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Steveeeie, on 25 February 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I believe that 3D Realms made up the idea for 'Survivor*' for the IP sale, so they could freely make a new duke game when they fancied making one.

Which by legal intention means that it shouldn't exist, as the terms of the agreement between Gearbox and 3D Realms was that Gearbox had the rights to all future Duke Nukem games. I dare a lawyer to say in court that Mass Destruction is Survivor.

[Kathy]

I assume, Interceptor was funded by 3dr anyway so it shouldn't be a big loss for them. Unless they were stupid enough to work without pay... again...

[Richard Shead]

Apparently, The Commander wants to see George Broussard in one of those outfits...

[Steveeeie]

Kathy, on 25 February 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

I assume, Interceptor was funded by 3dr anyway so it shouldn't be a big loss for them. Unless they were stupid enough to work without pay... again...

I'm guessing that may have been the case, they may have seen it as a sure thing.

[-Rhetro-]

This is about the extent of Broussards productivity in the last 10 years:



So please dear lord do not let him get into one of those outfits!

This comes off to me as 3DR regretting they lost the Duke IP and trying to pull a fast one and getting caught. Then you add on how stupid Interceptor has handled this and you have the makings of an ever annoying debacle. In this age of technology no party can say they were ignorant to any of this.

Unfortunately guys, the more this stuff happens, the longer it will take for a new true Duke IP to get out the door. Its pretty heartbreaking. I grew up as a kid on the computer playing Duke3D. I have thousands of fond memories of my childhood shaped from Duke. It saddens me that its getting crapped all over. And believe it or not, Interceptor and 3DR, by pulling these stunts are only aiding in it getting crapped on even more. Tragic really.

[Richard Shead]

-Rhetro-, on 25 February 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

This is about the extent of Broussards productivity in the last 10 years:

Being able to make a potato chip re-materialize from thin air ain't too bad of an accomplishment. That achievement alone could easily put an end to world hunger. Forget about DNF, the man should be winning a Nobel prize!!

[NUKEMDAVE]

Well, if 3DR/Interceptor don't manage to overcome this lawsuit, they could try taking the assets of the game and make a CGI Duke Nukem movie with them.

I'm willing to bet Gearbox would try to shut down a Duke Nukem movie, too, even though 3D Realms supposedly owns those rights, too.

[Soap DX]

Theirs an easy way to look at it. GBX owns the rights. So its their RIGHT. So anyone would need authorisation for a Duke Movie, because they have NO RIGHTS.

Could be worse Uwe Boll could be making a Duke Nukem movie. *sudders in horror*

And I don't believe 3D Realms was working on another Duke game, they barely where able to finish the DNF. Plus they'd have to prove it in court that the other game was started before the IP transfer.

[zwieback]

i for myself am careful with making fast conclusions, because i refuse to believe that anyone is THAT stupid (interceptor).
it sounds to me like we only know half of the story as usual (when it comes to duke).

edit: i'm in no way an interceptor/3dr fanboy, it just doesn't make any sense to create a full game without having the rights for it.

[-Rhetro-]

Duke Rocks, on 26 February 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

Being able to make a potato chip re-materialize from thin air ain't too bad of an accomplishment. That achievement alone could easily put an end to world hunger. Forget about DNF, the man should be winning a Nobel prize!!

If I could do that I think I would be doing the same thing as him, plus I would be a rock star for these skills. Bravo George Broussard, Bravo

[TJR]

zwieback, on 26 February 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

edit: i'm in no way an interceptor/3dr fanboy, it just doesn't make any sense to create a full game without having the rights for it.

This may be part of an overarching grudge match between companies. Both Interceptor and 3DR have a bone to pick with Gearbox, so I can see each party wanting to get the last laugh.

Gearbox is a shrewd company that can play the legal game to their advantage. 3DR is the opposite.....they lost on the royalties issue, and they may well have lost again in an attempt to manipulate terms. It's as if they read contracts without consulting lawyers or ever understanding what things mean.

Gearbox seems to focus on "new partnerships" as proof of a breach (fairly damning since Interceptor was only recently established). I can only guess that 3DR may have missed this part, or they thought they could pass off a particular collaborator (say, Jon St. John or any contracted staffer on an older Duke Nukem initiative) as a link to an old partnership.

Sounds dumb, but hey, these guys once thought they could sell Jumpman and Star Trek games.

[-Rhetro-]

Quote

This may be part of an overarching grudge match between companies. Both Interceptor and 3DR have a bone to pick with Gearbox, so I can see each party wanting to get the last laugh.

The problem with Interceptor and 3DR wanting the last laugh is that its far too late. For both of them. GBX is the boss when it comes to Duke now, 3DR gave them that. Boo hoo 3DR, stop contributing to the burying of Duke for your own selfish reasons.

I will admit that I was holding an open mind for the new game. However, lets get real: IF this was about getting the last laugh, 3DR and Interceptor developing a Top Down RPG type Duke game is legitimately laughable in its own right.

That being said, we haven't seen what they were working on and I am sure we all wanted to have high hopes because its something new that could wash the everlasting bad taste of DNF out of our mouths, but really, how many people would get into such a drastic change in the Duke Genre? This isn't Duke 2 to Duke 3D, that was a different time and evolution in tech.

I have no basis to predict how DNMD would have turned out but if I had to I would probably predict it flopping anyways, based on the recent history of the groups behind it.

I am pretty sure this is what 3DR and Interceptor are starting to look like as this lawsuit continues:

[Mike Norvak]

[NUKEMDAVE]

Quote

Jon St John

10 hours ago
.


I have been excited for the past few weeks for this day to arrive so that I could announce an upcoming game that's close to my heart. But alas - foolishness and lawyers have prevented my announcement from happening. BOOO lawsuits!!! BOOOOO!!! Long live the KING.

[ReaperMan]

BOO!!!!....pretending you never sold the rights to Duke Nukem to a bunch of nitwits.
BOO!!!!.... for using RPG elements in a Duke Nukem Game.
BOOO!!!... DNF.