People talk about them borrowing stuff, but some people wanted (not any here) certain things that were ripped out of certain movies etc, but are okay with that because it fits along their need for closure. Even though the idea may have been ripped out of ROTK or even MGS4 ending.
They could have just used this song as an inspiration for the ending bit, but most people would probably rage because the cover art looks like the Stargazer scene. Seriously, any thing in science fiction has been borrowed from time to time. Nothing is completely 100% original anymore. The whole Reaper thing was "borrowed" from Star Trek, and the Geth/Quarian storyline was borrowed from another show (I never watched BSG, but I heard it was loosely based of that). Same thing like people talk about how certain bits were borrowed from 2001 Space Odyssey, or Deus Ex but not the entire game. Hell, in this game they think that control=control Reapers, like in that game. It doesn't work like that here, even though the choice name is similar.
This post has been edited by Jeff: 23 December 2013 - 03:34 PM
The Reapers weren't Star Trek, it was a direct rip off of FreeSpace. Humans = Terrans, Turians = Vasudans, Protheans = Ancients, Reapers = Shivans. I never got into Star Trek but the entire alien conflict dynamic is that game is cut and pasted from FreeSpace, but implemented better (Which says a lot considering FreeSpace 2 is the third greatest game ever, and second only to Deus Ex and ME Trilogy in the plot department).
Spoiler
Many of the sub plots were also borrowed and modified. Just like the Shivans, the Reapers are an organic/synthetic mixture. They also serve a similar Xenocidal role in the galaxy - protecting the weak races by killing the strong.
Protheans ran their empire just like The Ancients. Ancient technology helped us battle the Shivans. Extinctions are cycles dating back millenia. Terrans and Vasudans have no intention of subverting or enslaving anyone, but are mistaken as such, just like the council races. The GTI and the NTF wanted to use Shivan technology to further their subversion, just like Cerberus.
Also, just like the Shivans, the Reapers were more of a philosophical enigma than anything else. Contacting them was extremely difficult, due to their mysterious nature.
Cerberus is the "Space CIA" and Jack was "MKULTRA 2.0"
Liara is that innocent deep intellectual shy chick stereotype.
Miranda reminds me a little bit of the movie Gattaca.
Mordin is Doc Brown.
Tali is that teenage girl next door.
Cortez and
Spoiler
Kaidan
are power bottoms.
Volus are Jews. Batarians are Somalians. Salarians are Math Asians or Asperger geeks. Asari are slutty yuppie chicks. The whole planet Illium is a rip on hardcore libertarianism.
What makes Bioware great is that they took these tropes and wrote them so well, and so deep, they became their own things. As far as plot goes, they actually managed to outdo FreeSpace by using the exact same plot elements which is fucking incredible. I'm a hardcore FreeSpace fan, and now I love Mass Effect even more. I want to say ME is derivative, but it's so unique it really only is on paper.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 23 December 2013 - 04:11 PM
Dial V for Viper, on 23 December 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:
What makes Bioware great is that they took these tropes and wrote them so well, and so deep, they became their own things.
Kind of like how, say, the basic telephone idea was coined by Alexander Graham Bell, but then Steve Jobs took his idea and turned into a "phone on steroids" (phone, GPS, text,internet, etc)?
I guess when it comes to invention and ideas, some stuff is original, but some people take that original idea and build upon it. Kind of like my phone analogy.
This post has been edited by Jeff: 23 December 2013 - 04:29 PM
People would be "I didn't want Grunt to work in a flower shop. I wanted something else". I wanted a Harbinger boss fight, little blue children, drinks with Garrus or [insert random closure] idea.
Then they should have ended the game with a Shep's choice, then simply blank the screen.
And I don't want this whole "idiots didn't understand" attitude. I still think the ending had an issue with its last cutscene. I didn't care about it that much, but it was still subpar. It lacked intentional abruptness, but at the same time haven't provided a proper closure. But then again, I wasn't all that concerned about it.
And I don't want this whole "idiots didn't understand" attitude. I still think the ending had an issue with its last cutscene. I didn't care about it that much, but it was still subpar. It lacked intentional abruptness, but at the same time haven't provided a proper closure. But then again, I wasn't all that concerned about it.
You'll notice that whenever something is important than you need to know, they put it in "quotes". The Starchild calls himself an intelligence, then when you ask Leviathan about the intelligence, he says the intelligence is Harbinger. The Starchild is Harbinger, taking the form of the boy on Earth (Struggle if you wish your mind will be mine. Your memories give voice to our words. Same deal). Much like Leviathan takes the form of Ann, Hadley (should be in C-Sec custody, but he just showed up as Leviathan), as well as Garneau. Or if you want, go to the source.
Which cutscene are we talking about? The Normandy? That didn't actually happen. It's all part of the indoctrination process. People acting out of character or doing weird stuff it classic dream content. The planet they landed on doesn't exist, it's made up of Shepard's memories. If you watch closely on the map when you set off the Crucible you'll see the first ships to exit the relays exit the Alpha Relay, which you destroyed in ME2 (weird stuff, acting out of character). In addition, the first relay explosion doesn't start near Earth, but somewhere else. If it was real, Joker wouldn't have survived the crash. Yet, he's the first one out the door when it crashes. Doesn't even have a scratch on him and he's not even limping.
To sum it up, Mass Effect 3's ending goes like this:
Master of Illusion (Harbinger/Starchild) (Final Hours Chapter 11 (ending chapter) has a similar name) Mind Screw ending Jigsaw Puzzle Plot Middle of page (story structure of game will require people to put together a puzzle using information in the game. Once you have all the pieces, everything will make sense). ME3 does not have a traditional game ending (eg. destroy Reapers, proceed with closure/medal ceremony). Closure comes in different ways. We got closure to different plots during the game. Your squad tells you what they might do after the war. I assume people don't think that's closure, because they don't explicitly show you what is going to happen. Like I said, closure comes in different forms. You might have even gotten an e-mail from someone telling you what their plans are when it's over. Or a conversation. As the first link I posted in this thread states, Mass Effect 3 is a series of endings which tie up all that stuff you did in the previous two games. It doesn't answer every single question or wrap up everything. A lot of sci-fi leaves unanswered stuff (mystery) and things to ponder about and interpret in their own ways.
The thing on Earth where you get to say goodbye to everyone before heading off to the beam, that was the initial closure. Before, people started wanting more (EC), like what happens to everyone when it's done. They wrote it like a suicide mission, where you weren't likely to return from. The music was all downbeat and depressing. Say goodbye to everyone and pray you make it out alive. This is a real suicide mission, and not some watered down thing like ME2, where if you do everything right, everyone lives.
Some people may argue that you can't leave a 3 part game series with an ending so open ended and unfinished, but this has been done before. One such series essentially left the fate of the series up to the viewers because it couldn't possibly live up to the insane expectations of the viewers. Judging by Mass Effect 3's ending reaction, and how emotionally invested people are, seems Bioware did the same thing. They couldn't possibly make an ending which makes everyone happy, so they decided to allow you to craft your own headcanon ending instead.
They did kind of warn people before hand though. I know people joke about "answers to everything". That doesn't mean that when you finish the game that you'll have all your questions answered and nothing left to think about. As long as Bioware answers 98% of that, and leaves the ending bit vague, then that goes back to the marketing thing I talked about earlier. Same with them "pulling a Lost". As long as they answered 98% of the stuff (around 99% of the game, minus the ending) then it's not like that.
I'm talking about the last cutscene after the Shepard's choice. If they wanted it to end abruptly they should have cutted it to black after several seconds with your journey as Shepard coming to an end without certainty about your choice's consequences.
This post has been edited by Kathy: 24 December 2013 - 06:12 AM
My friend had his graduation party that night. Everyone was loaded. Out of nowhere we just heard swearing and shit being thrown in the other room. Priceless.
Not really, but somewhat similar. Simply not show anything that happens after your choice. You've made it and can't know the consequences.
The final decision (Shepard's choice as you call it) is how you deal with the Reapers. We did see how they got destroyed or dealt with. The Extended Cut did sort of mention what happens to the rest of galaxy afterwards (without going into details). I do recall them stating that the EC will only be available to download until 2014 sometime.
This post has been edited by Jeff: 25 December 2013 - 08:46 AM
Must have been just a rumor. Much like many rumors that came and went during the game's existence.
A person with an "inside source" at Bioware claimed to have certain DLCs coming out, which never materialized.
A person "claiming" to be a writer who talks about certain things that were "cut" from the game, which were never cut from the game.
Spoiler
He claims Cortez always will die during the Priority Earth mission. False. If you visit Cortez a lot during the game and ask him to take a break on the Citadel, then he will survive the crash. He won't die, and you can talk to him at the communication hub. Fake.
He claims that you don't get to say goodbye to your squad, but forgets that this is what you did in London. One last conversation before heading off into a battle, which you weren't going to return from (Shepard dies in every ending except one, so I'd say he never returns 98% of the time).
He claims that only Mac Walters wrote the ending, but one of those earlier links I posted states, Chris Hepler and Sylvia Feketekuty were both writers (she worked on LOTSB), and they are talking about the Catalyst scene. Says to me, there was more than one writer. Chris wrote a lot of the codex entries, planet descriptions as well as a few other things including the ending.
He claims that the themes of the games are certain things, but completely forgot to read the Final Hours App. The overarching theme for the entire series is not galactic alliance or friends, it's Master Slaves. Reapers will enslave everyone if you don't destroy them at the end.
He claims that the destroy cutscene was supposed to have three levels of destruction. Earth slightly damaged. Earth is highly devastated. Earth is a cinderblock, everything dies.
Truth is, these cutscenes are in the game. They were never cut. Just sounds like another one of these people who think the ending is exactly the same with a color swap, which actually he did state, the endings are exactly the same minus the color difference. Yet I can see the difference between the endings, and there's a lot more than a color swap. Seriously what kind of professional writer says "woo victory" anyways?
This post has been edited by Jeff: 25 December 2013 - 09:41 PM
Jesus fucking Christ Bioware. Got blackout drunk in The Citadel in ME2 and woke up to this.
Spoilers.
Spoiler
She mentions this if you're relationship with her but she leaves out the details. On her loyalty mission she mentions the first thing that happened after escaping Cerberus' control was boarding a shuttle, finding a ship to rescue her, and then getting gang raped and sold into slavery by her "rescuers." That combined with everything else...Holy shit I feel so fucking sorry for this girl.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 25 December 2013 - 10:52 PM
Greatest game ever made? Not even close. It's (the trilogy's) level design and gameplay are mediocre at best (and that is being generous) which is a shame because it is strong in other areas. Typical Bioware work.
Myself I would say Deus Ex (original) is the greatest game ever made, but to each his own.
This post has been edited by Gameplay Nut: 26 December 2013 - 05:01 AM
Gameplay Nut, on 26 December 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:
It's (the trilogy's) level design and gameplay are mediocre at best (and that is being generous) which is a shame because it is strong in other areas. Typical Bioware work.
Myself I would say Deus Ex (original) is the greatest game ever made, but to each his own.
Perhaps he might be referring to the story. People don't play this game for the level design or the gameplay. The ending was top notch.
This post has been edited by Jeff: 26 December 2013 - 05:32 AM
Gameplay Nut, on 26 December 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:
Don't jump the gun, that article consists of theory. Said article being another piece of writing that is erroneously titled.
I suppose people say it's a theory unless Bioware tells people that's what the plan was. This game has been out for nearly 2 years. People have had lots of time to make up their own minds. I guess I'm not one to stand around. I'd just decide for myself, than wait for answers.
Had some idea about how to disprove Shepard surviving in the destroy ending. Mentioned something to do with atmospheric re-entry temperatures, and what happens to a human being when exposed to the vacuum of space. Really interesting. That's the thing about science fiction. Sometimes using your imagination is a hell of a lot better than waiting for Bioware to tell what happened. Maybe they don't like the explanation that was given. Another thing I came up with was a galactic economic crash with the leader of Earth being indoctrinated. So technically he didn't cause the recession, as he was completely under Reaper control. Harbinger made him do it.
This post has been edited by Jeff: 26 December 2013 - 02:33 PM
Gameplay Nut, on 26 December 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:
Greatest game ever made? Not even close. It's (the trilogy's) level design and gameplay are mediocre at best (and that is being generous) which is a shame because it is strong in other areas. Typical Bioware work.
Myself I would say Deus Ex (original) is the greatest game ever made, but to each his own.
>Mediocre gameplay
>Deus Ex
Are you kidding me? Deus Ex's gunplay is either dogshit tier at low level, or too easy and bland at anything above that. The voice acting is fucking terrible, too. The regen health is the cheapest out of any game ever made.
Don't get me wrong. JC Denton is my God. Adam Jensen is my Jesus, and John Shepard is my holy spirit. I fucking LOVE Deus Ex. But C'mon...It's a deeply flawed game. It's one of the best games ever, but it does a great job holding itself back from my own "Top 5." It's riddled with issues, and components of it haven't aged well.
I will admit that Deus Ex and DE:HR have absolute God tier level design though. I think ME3's is up there too.
Gameplay Nut, on 26 December 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:
If you believe that then you lack perspective, Dear. The level design is atrocious, gameplay barely any better, and the two go hand in hand.
Anyway, I'm not here to bitch at fellow gamers, so I'm signing out.
"Hardcore gamers" with OCD are the worst. I hate people who WOULD have great taste, but who are unable to get past bullshit minutia. Finding something to bitch about, then fixating on it is the worst way to be an elitist.
If you actually log back in I'd love to know why you think the gameplay and level design sucks. Everyone can bash ME1 in that regard, the gameplay was mediocre. But bashing 2 and 3 is some seriously hard to justify bullshit. Your argument only exists because you're cherrypicking.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 26 December 2013 - 04:24 PM
This guy was one of the level designers on ME3. I suppose when people look at level design they only look at things like geometry, but in a game like this, there's things like lines of dialogue, plot variables and a bunch of other things which many wouldn't even consider as part of level design.
I suppose people might say level design is not as good in today's games because they are quite linear, compared to back in the day where levels were a huge maze, where you could get lost. Thing is design evolves. Doesn't just stay in one spot. Much like the evolution of people. We don't just stay in one spot, we constantly evolve.
I hear a lot of people talk about going back to the "good old days", but was it really that great? Or is that just looking at the world with rose tinted goggles on?
This post has been edited by Jeff: 26 December 2013 - 05:53 PM
I hear a lot of people talk about going back to the "good old days", but was it really that great? Or is that just looking at the world with rose tinted goggles on?
When it's done well it really is great, that's why communities still exist around games like Duke Nukem 3D. However most of the modern games that try to replicate that type of level design don't really do it that well and tend to rely somewhat on the nostalgia factor, then they ultimately fail and make the style look even worse than it did before. I'll admit it's harder to do it now than it was back then though for various reasons.
This guy was one of the level designers on ME3. I suppose when people look at level design they only look at things like geometry, but in a game like this, there's things like lines of dialogue, plot variables and a bunch of other things which many wouldn't even consider as part of level design.
I suppose people might say level design is not as good in today's games because they are quite linear, compared to back in the day where levels were a huge maze, where you could get lost. Thing is design evolves. Doesn't just stay in one spot. Much like the evolution of people. We don't just stay in one spot, we constantly evolve.
I hear a lot of people talk about going back to the "good old days", but was it really that great? Or is that just looking at the world with rose tinted goggles on?
I've found that many of the people who complain about "linear" gameplay are huge into old games and don't give a shit about anything besides gameplay.
Bitter PC gamers are the fucking worst. At least Nintenyearolds will play something made after the year 2000.
Like I said to Gameplay Nut, that shit is straight up OCD. I'm an elitist piece of shit when it comes to video games. The thing is, I'm open minded and will try anything. I don't get hung up on minutia or "How I would have done things." That attitude is why Roger Ebert died famous and you're bitching about shit on The Internet.
That shit is the biggest cop out for not liking something ever. Tell you what, you go make your own Mass Effect style game and see how well it does. Today's gamers have a fucking entitlement and ego problem. 99 times out of 100, the guy who has that attitude couldn't design a good map if his life depended on it.
Not liking BOTH Mass Effect and Deus Ex is proof you have shitty taste in video games. They're two sides of the same coin.
Plain Simple Garek, on 26 December 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:
When it's done well it really is great, that's why communities still exist around games like Duke Nukem 3D. However most of the modern games that try to replicate that type of level design don't really do it that well and tend to rely somewhat on the nostalgia factor, then they ultimately fail and make the style look even worse than it did before. I'll admit it's harder to do it now than it was back then though for various reasons.
Exactly.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 26 December 2013 - 06:44 PM
New games can't replicate old school level design very well because it's hard to make realistic environments that make sense that are also non-linear mazes with pitfalls, dead ends, secret passages, etc. There is a dichotomy there that people won't talk about. You can't expect a modern HD graphics game with amazing attention to detail to have level design like E1M4 or something. Not yet, anyway.
They make up for linearity by adding all kinds of great shit. Case in point - Retaking Omega in ME3. My favorite part of any game, ever, and it's linear as hell, but does an amazing job of hiding it. It's the first time I actually felt like I was REALLY invading a giant facility through the backdoor, and not just being herded through areas convenient for the designers. The variety and pacing is phenomenal.
Granted, that shit is DLC, and not everyone has played it, but if you didn't like that whole shebang your opinion is off my radar permanently. That shit is how you design an action game! Invading a base isn't a 30 minute job, it's three and a half hours of neckbreaking forward momentum.
As great as Knee Deep in the Dead and L.A. Meltdown are, there isn't much variety in a given level. Between two levels, yes.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 26 December 2013 - 06:57 PM
I agree. There are a lot of cool new games. I really like Blood Dragon for example. But I do wish there were new crops of old school shooters. Now we have the ability to do whatever the hell we want with sprites and voxels and no one is really doing anything with them. The problem is that gamers want their cake and to eat it too. (inb4 the cake is a lie) If you want a 90's shooter, it can't look like Far Cry 3 or Serious Sam BFE. I'm not saying it has to look like TekWar, but it would be a natural progression graphically.
You know, honestly, as much as I love old school shooters, I've come to realize that my love for them is mainly due to adrenaline. Honestly, as long as a game isn't dumbed down, simplistic garbage I'm down for it. Fast paced, high difficulty, skill based excitement gives me that rush.
And you know what? I'm cool with you too, regen health. There, I said it. There's something awesome about a game with proper regen health like DE:HR or ME3. You gain sooo much freedom, but you've got all the toughness of wet tissue paper. Watch your back or get eaten alive in two seconds. Crank up the difficulty and it's manlier than medpacks, that's for sure. There's a sense of fear you can't get out of an old school health system. Especially in Mass Effect, if you play as a Vanguard. You basically put yourself in extreme danger for an immediate shield recharge. If you are half a second late in locking on and using your ultra fast headbutting attack, you're straight up fucked. I beat the entire final boss battle of Omega with veins popping into my vision, constantly. I maybe had like 5 natural recharges, the other 50 were all life or death Vanguard attacks.
This post has been edited by Dial V for Viper: 26 December 2013 - 07:16 PM
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