[zchri9]

Theres a ZIP with all the Logo's in it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/172009483/3DR_...istmas.zip.html

[Yatta]

Dennis, on Dec 9 2008, 11:52 PM, said:

Yatta what ever happened to that interview George promised to do with Duke4.net around the time Duke3d for the Xbox was released ?

It was supposed to be a DNF interview which he declined. A Duke3D interview would have been useless given the heavy preexisting coverage and the fact that it was Duke3D, and nothing new.

[Montykoro]

Yatta, on Dec 10 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

It was supposed to be a DNF interview which he declined.

I am sorry to say but it was obvious that GB never granted an interview ... I would not bother me in that ...

I always ask the blessed day "it´s done" what will make the players in general ... Steam or retail razor1911? ... so many years to treat the fans like garbage ... I see that ugly future for sales of DNF

[DavoX]

This one made me chuckle

[peoplessi]

I think Laokin was bit harsh, some valid points, but then again a lot of harsh things said which are not true.

Also, it's been so long, that showing few screenshots and few videos doesn't really cut it - and this is where Laokin is correct, and 3D Realms made a mistake. It doesn't work like that, but it's what it is now.

I too, would like to hear more about 3D Realms in verbal form, be it some small tidbits or what-not. It doesn't have to be anything specific, the likes Joe Siegler has posted "Played DNF multiplayer - was a blast" or something like that. Those are great too.

12years, it shouldn't affect anyones review - if it does, they should quit reviewing games. In my opinion only quality of the game matters, and how good it is.

[DavoX]

But wouldn't "played dnf multiplayer" be kind stupid? As multiplayer is the thing that could never lack in any game.

It's easy for 3dr...they played the game over and over so they don't have this kind of expectation, they don't know what it is like to be on our side.

I was thinking about this and...they may think that when we get the game, we will forget about how long it took "Oh great game!" maybe...it could happen...BUT...what about after finishing the game? when the novelty wears off...will we be able to trust 3dr again?

[peoplessi]

Well, the mp thing would be something we all expect, but it would be something. The post doesn't have to be about MP per se, but such general posts about DNF.

That's also true, but it doesn't really change anything, what ever they say, until the game is released or some solid media. Nothing else compares, and isn't sufficient, and that is what went wrong with the teaser and the 2 screenshots. Before that it was pretty quiet and all we had seen where the small pictures in gamasutra.

When I get the game, I won't be thinkin how long it took to make. If it's good, it's good, if not - well that just too bad then I have never really actively waited for DNF, so that every morning I wake up and wonder if it's done. The past year went by quickly, and not thinking about the release was easy.

For the trust part, I hope they regain the trust again after DNF's release. Be more open again, and start working on their next project, and finish it in more timely manner. It's been more than turbulent ride with DNF, a lot people have come and gone during that time.

[crunchysuperman]

DavoX, on Dec 10 2008, 05:47 PM, said:

It's easy for 3dr...they played the game over and over so they don't have this kind of expectation, they don't know what it is like to be on our side.

I don't know, maybe it's worse. Spend years of your life working on a game as directed, only to have that work thrown away. Again. And again. And probably again.

[Montykoro]

crunchysuperman, on Dec 11 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

I don't know, maybe it's worse. Spend years of your life working on a game as directed, only to have that work thrown away. Again. And again. And probably again.

Nop... this build ships... another restart and 3DR going to hell...

Maybe looks like Quake vs DN3D...

[crunchysuperman]

^ Actually, that "probably again" was referring to the unconfirmed restart that I believe happened sometime in '05 rather than speculating on another one yet to come. In that case, it would be Again. And again. And yet again. And probably again.

[Laokin]

oakman, on Dec 9 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

Damn that was a really awesome post! and kinda touching, it shows that George is really playing us for the fool here. Although I disagree in what he says about the teaser graphichs, I thought they looked amazing! And I completly disagree with what he says about hl2 being an on-rails shooter//
But other than that yes, it sums it up nicely and really gives you a taste about these twelve long years! four, no FIVE stars!

Well, here I am... in the 'flesh' so to speak. I think a few things I might have said in that post were taken out of context. I also appreciate being invited to come discuss with you guys. :-)

First I'd like to address the HL2 comment. By on rails shooter, I didn't mean "bad game." What I meant was the game is linear, there is no freedom of choice in anyway, the story is just told as you go. The same thing happens in every play through. Sure there are things you miss but this doesn't suddenly make the game "non-linear" in any sense. Fear, Quake 4, Doom 3, Every COD, Halo Series, HL series ect ect are all "On rails" FPS. Once again, this is a metaphor saying you have no choice in how the events of the story change.

Secondly, George did say they were almost finished. He didn't literally say "almost finished" but he did say they started work on the last 2 levels of the game and that they were currently in the process of polishing the earlier levels.

Quote

Technical Information

03/30/06 02:57 PM

If you are tech complete for a year, and the game is still not done; so by the time it ships
it's more then a year tech complete. By that time, aren't graphics/tech out-dated ?

Don't worry. When I say tech complete, I mean we could ship if all the content were done.
It's fairly easy to add and update shaders and we do so all the time.
The graphics guys are ahead and always have time to add in bells and whistles.
Many things like per pixel blur, depth of field etc, have zero impact on game content and drop in, in a few days.

I wish the GB quotes had them all, but they don't. The quote when he originally said it was Tech Complete stated the progress of the mappers. It was also shortly after the time they hired the new mappers, if that helps any.


When you know the process of how games are made, you would realize that it should have been feature complete. This implies "almost finished." If they ever reached that state, the max time it COULD take to get out on the shelf is 1.5 years. That's primarily Multiplayer work from this point on (minus the usual bug fixes and performance tweaks.)

The point I was making is there is NO earthy reason a game like DNF could take 6 years to develop. Bioshock was made in 14 months. It's almost absurd to take longer than 4 years to develop a game. Cryptic studios is popping out MMO's with amazing graphics and quality in 18 months. DNF a roughly 10 hour linear FPS experience = 6 years?

Does not compute.
(6 years since they started over in 2002, I think I'm being generous since we've been waiting for TWELVE years already.)

Lastly the comment about piracy. This is the one MOST out of context. People seem to ignore stipulations and context when people present ultimatums. I said *IF* 3DRealms continues to treat fans with the utmost disrespect than I simply won't purchase their game. Piracy, on the other hand doesn't even hurt the gaming industry. The people who "Pirate" everything aren't going to buy it anyway. That doesn't automatically = loss for the company if there was no monetary gain to begin with. Furthermore, pirates that pirate a game because they aren't sure if it's going to be good almost always purchase the game in question, if it's good. Especially if it features multi-player since hamachi isn't really an adequate competitor unless the game is COOP only and you have a buddy. You can even read a semi recent press conference from EA where they say that Piracy doesn't really effect them. Spore was the most pirated game in 2008, yet still somehow managed to be a best seller. The reason I put piracy in my argument was to show off the serious effects in a last ditch effort to fight for change. One in which I stand by.

Also, for the record... I'd like to state that I know it's not Mr. Siegler's fault. I just figured if at least he's the one communicating with us, if he feels what we feel we would have a better chance of the 3DRealms PR team turning around.

/Respectfully,
Laokin.

P.S.
George said they actively do "Polish Phases." He also said there was 3 of them already and more to come. What reading comprehension level would I need to make that statement say "we aren't polishing yet."

[The Dukenator]

DavoX, on Dec 10 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

This one made me chuckle

It gives a new meaning to when pigs fly.
Duke: *singing a parody of Rudolph: The Red-Nosed Reindeer* Piggy with your nose so bright, will you guide my sleigh tonight?

[peoplessi]

6 years is a long time, but I think we are closer than ever before. Since the media blackout we've seen and heard more than ever, in these recent times.

Still, the frustration remains, but I can see why some feel that 3D Realms is disregarding their fans(or forum users, since that's a smaller group to pinpoint). I would be more surprised if they wouldn't patch that somehow later on the road. It would only be appropiate, but that is something we have to wait and see. Like almost everything relating DNF.

Of course it's hard know when people are truly expecting something to come/happen this year regarding DNF. If nothing happens, I bet a lot of people will be dissappointed, even more frustrated, and will give up on DNF. That's a hard call.

In my eyes it was a mistake to show the teaser, and to show in-game footage of DNF in Jace Hall Show - as hard as it sounds. So were the two shots in DN3D for XBLA. Since the timeframe just keeps bending and bending. A year back, we had the teaser, that's a long wait. I know people expect to see a trailer this year, some are very confident it will happen - I don't know personally will it happen or not. Keeping in mind George Broussard said he want's to give the fans more than bi-weekly updates - if he didn't mean less = more, that hasn't happened so far.

[NUKEMDAVE]

Well, I sense something will come this year. Trailer or not, something will most likely be released by the end of this year, like maybe they'll tell us when we can expect to see more media so the guessing games will stop. Or they will officially announce which console(s) DNF will be coming to. I think that would be the right thing for 3DR to do. I've been expecting them to officially announce the console(s) anyway. Like I said before, I still don't doubt a trailer will come this year. We shall know for sure very soon, though!

By the way, the flying pigs above makes me feel even more confident!

[Yatta]

Laokin, another great post!

I agree with everything Laokin says, minus the fact that George would be moved by his employees. I think George is too stubborn and has the company by the balls, and isn't willing to let go until the money runs dry.

Maybe reading both of Laokin's posts would knock some sense into George's head. It'd be interesting to merge the two posts and e-mail them to him. If he has time to fuck around on Shacknews, he should have no problem giving 10 minutes of his time to the fan of all Duke fans.

[Kathy]

Laokin, on Dec 12 2008, 03:27 AM, said:

Secondly, George did say they were almost finished. He didn't literally say "almost finished" but he did say they started work on the last 2 levels of the game and that they were currently in the process of polishing the earlier levels.
I wish the GB quotes had them all, but they don't. The quote when he originally said it was Tech Complete stated the progress of the mappers. It was also shortly after the time they hired the new mappers, if that helps any.
When you know the process of how games are made, you would realize that it should have been feature complete. This implies "almost finished." If they ever reached that state, the max time it COULD take to get out on the shelf is 1.5 years. That's primarily Multiplayer work from this point on (minus the usual bug fixes and performance tweaks.)

He sad that they are at the stage putting it all together and polish. Putting all together actually takes the most time of movie production. So, in game this could mean anything and we can't say what phase DNF was in at that time.

And Kristian will kick your ass with quotes.

Quote

The point I was making is there is NO earthy reason a game like DNF could take 6 years to develop. Bioshock was made in 14 months. It's almost absurd to take longer than 4 years to develop a game. Cryptic studios is popping out MMO's with amazing graphics and quality in 18 months. DNF a roughly 10 hour linear FPS experience = 6 years?

You do realise that DNF team probably consists of under 40 people? Of course if DNF won't come out in 2008/2009 then something went REALLY wrong since starting again in 2002/2003.

Quote

Lastly the comment about piracy. This is the one MOST out of context. People seem to ignore stipulations and context when people present ultimatums. I said *IF* 3DRealms continues to treat fans with the utmost disrespect than I simply won't purchase their game. Piracy, on the other hand doesn't even hurt the gaming industry. [...]

Oh, please... I'm sick of hearing all those arguments. I'm not saying they are valid or invalid. Your main point was "I'm not gonna pay for this game if they'll continue doing this". Leave it at that. Piracy has nothing to do with this and it was a mistake to bring it in. It's like Godwin's law for videogames.

Quote

P.S.
George said they actively do "Polish Phases." He also said there was 3 of them already and more to come. What reading comprehension level would I need to make that statement say "we aren't polishing yet."

When you making something you're always polishing. All those similar comments made by George are irrelevant. He was saying about light at the end of the tunnel getting brighter 3 years ago. Well, it surely was getting brighter. Especially after being in total darkness.

[Yatta]

Lotan, I understand your disagreements, but I think in the end it comes down to to the fact that we're all sick of the wait.

As a business, 3DR might not legally owe us anything, but as a respectful and honorable enterprise, informal relationships between the company and its fans should be a high priority, as with any popular developer. I think Laokin's posts address this issue accurately when it comes to George and 3D Realms.

[kaisersoze]

Yatta, on Dec 12 2008, 01:07 AM, said:

Lotan, I understand your disagreements, but I think in the end it comes down to to the fact that we're all sick of the wait.

As a business, 3DR might not legally owe us anything, but as a respectful and honorable enterprise, informal relationships between the company and its fans should be a high priority, as with any popular developer. I think Laokin's posts address this issue accurately when it comes to George and 3D Realms.

I also agree as well(for the most part anyways).

Well, couple more weeks and I guess we'll see if we get anything. I still think we're going to see something.

[zchri9]

http://img241.images...57697995gr7.png

am i the only one in here who sees in that image, 'Change MP' and 'Study Code'?

[Kathy]

Yatta, on Dec 12 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

Lotan, I understand your disagreements, but I think in the end it comes down to to the fact that we're all sick of the wait.

So do I.

Quote

As a business, 3DR might not legally owe us anything, but as a respectful and honorable enterprise, informal relationships between the company and its fans should be a high priority, as with any popular developer. I think Laokin's posts address this issue accurately when it comes to George and 3D Realms.

It is. Emotionally his post is spot on, but some of his arguments are flawed.

I think Monkey Butler's post is more clearer when comes to forumers' feelings.

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showpost.php...p;postcount=440

[crunchysuperman]

kaisersoze, on Dec 12 2008, 01:25 AM, said:

I still think we're going to see something.

Pretty sure it won't be a trailer. If anything, maybe another postage stamp, but I don't expect much more than that.

Bah, humbug!

[Psyrgery]

crunchysuperman, on Dec 12 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

Pretty sure it won't be a trailer. If anything, maybe another postage stamp, but I don't expect much more than that.

Bah, humbug!

Tomorrow it's the Christmas Party for 3DRealms. Let's just hope for something to pop in eventually.

Let's give them until following Friday 19. If they don't show anything up then, they sure can stick DNF up their...

I'm gonna STFU now, I don't want to be banned

[crunchysuperman]

Done hoping, sorry. When (if) it comes, it comes, and I'll be as excited as anyone and first in line to buy it. But I just have no more faith to give to this game's development quagmire.

[Kathy]

Psyrgery, on Dec 12 2008, 05:17 PM, said:

I'm gonna STFU now, I don't want to be banned

I don't think you're gonna be. After 1st Jan there will be lots of "fuck you, George" posts.

[Yatta]

Psyrgery, on Dec 12 2008, 06:17 AM, said:

I'm gonna STFU now, I don't want to be banned

We don't allow banning on Duke4.net.

[Nihilanth]

You know, if you guys like the game when it's released you'll forget or not bother with those things you're pissed about now.

[DavoX]

While we play the game, maybe. But after finishing it, nah, I'll still remember how fucked up it's development was and I don't think I'm gonna trust them on another game.

[rockmx8]

Psyrgery, on Dec 12 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

Tomorrow it's the Christmas Party for 3DRealms. Let's just hope for something to pop in eventually.

Let's give them until following Friday 19. If they don't show anything up then, they sure can stick DNF up their...

Agreed let's wait until the 19Th, I sure hope something shows up for us already!!

[rockmx8]

kaisersoze, on Dec 9 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

Yeah, it was a great post until he put his foot in his mouth with the pirate talk.

Well I don't blame him really for that, I don't think he really meant to pirate the game, he was just upset that's it really afterall. He had good valid reasons though for his well said and thought out argument... You of all Duke fans like me know that well you know.

[Master Fibbles]

Yatta, on Dec 12 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

We don't allow banning on Duke4.net.

Fuck you you mutherfukin fucktard. I hope you rot in hell and this site goes down with you. Also, I don't love you and I faked the orgasms every time.

I'm just teasing



Anyway, a Christmas present would be nice from 3DR but I am not sure we can really expect one. Joe made it clear that he knew nothing of a trailer being made, he said it multiple times and in clear English so even the dumbest of the forumites could have possibly understood (if they read his posts at all). He was being serious about that, I believe him.

A preview from 1UP is possible but that means nothing really as far as WID. They are prepping games rumored to be 2009 games but not all the games they are doing are guaranteed to be 2009 games (some are just speculation).
I do know that I can't time wise afford to have DNF released yet. It would have to be in the summer when I am not taking a huge course load and writing a thesis.