[Inspector Lagomorf]

I've never seen anyone's rep plummet so fast over the course of one topic. That must be a record for this forum.

The point that I think must be made is that you don't have to give gays preferential treatment; just treat them as you would someone else. That applies to everyone of any ethnicity, religion, sex, race, etc.. People who are vehemently hostile to homosexuals are probably repressing themselves in some way.

Edit: Paul, you're pathetic. After the rightful beating that your reputation took, do you think you can somehow garner retributive justice by downvoting my posts? Face the music.

[wayskobfssae]

Wow... srsly?

[Mikko]

I think that any environmental component that may influence sexuality is very weak at best except in extreme cases.

Btw, it's still okay to say that something is "gay" without coming off as a homophobe. Obviously, in this case Paul B is a homophobe.

[rasmus thorup]

I think you guys are taking the word gay too serious. There are 2 ways the word gay could be understood.
1: you call a person a gay, which may be true or may not be true.
2: you call a person a gay because you want to insult him.

Who the hell decided that being a gay is insulting?
I know people who are gays, but they arent "gay".

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 14 August 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Btw, it's still okay to say that something is "gay" without coming off as a homophobe.

No it's not, it's one of those few cases where using a word implies one's incapacity to intelligently discuss a subject. Which of the following opinions are you more likely to listen to:

• I don't like Team Fortress 2 because there's an increased emphasis on the microeconomy of hats and promotional items that has come to overshadow the gameplay.
• I don't like Team Fortress 2 because hats are gay and promo items are gay.

As a TF2 fan I'd be more inclined to listen to the first opinion without the knee-jerk "goddamn what's your problem" reaction. Pure and simple, anyone who's going to have an intelligent conversation on something isn't going to resort to calling things gay or homo.

Also, I know that this opinion in particular would be controversial, but throwing around "gay" as an epithet is akin to a generation in which it was considered humiliating and demeaning to be accused of homosexuality.

[Mikko]

But that doesn't change the fact that TF2 hats are gay.

[wayskobfssae]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 14 August 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

But that doesn't change the fact that TF2 hats are gay.

TF2 wasn't even meant to be taken seriously.

[High Treason]

And TF2 and Valve secured this by the inclusion of hats...

Wow, we started with a mod thread being derailed into homophobic garbage and now it's derailed homophobic brother may be further derailed into a thread about hats.

[Micky C]

Quote

I heard that masturbating while sitting on the toilet isn't gay until you put a finger up your butt.




As far as having a disposition for attraction to the same sex being a "programmed" trait or a learned trait, it's probably a little bit of both.


I have a cousin who had two sons. They were both brought up under the same roof, with the same parents, under the same circumstances. One is gay, one is not.


Both children have the same genetics and are raised in the same household, why do they have different propensities?


This is a poor analogy, but the best I can come up with atm. It's like alcoholism or addictive personalities, people aren't born desiring booze, but learn it from society. Due to "design" they are more likely to try out alcohol once they learn of it and find that they really like it.

Do identical twins actually have the same DNA? It'd definitely be close.

Edit: note to self; always check last page before posting.

[Gambini]

 X-Vector, on 14 August 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I´m not intolerant with jewish people. But jew friendlies should be more tolerant with those who don't like jews. It´s not like he wants to kill all of them.

You should not discrimate people by things they can´t change. Being gay is a choice, even if it´s based on a strong desire.

And I don´t quite understand all this sham about not disliking anybody by what they are. Discrimitating is not the same than marginating. I would not want to share a room or a public shower with someone that is gay. Do you think I´m homophobic because of that? Because I´m not.

[Mblackwell]

They do not have the same genetics. Their genetics come from the same parents, but if they were the same genetics they would be identical twins and even identical twins end up slightly different genetically. You are correct that different environmental factors can trigger different behavior, however there has always been and always will be gay people just as there happens to be gay animals.

As far as your statement Burnett it's completely a non-argument. I'm sure when you were a child you didn't think about sex at all. And if someone had mentioned it you'd have found it disgusting. Suddenly in adolescence things changed. Not every facet of your biology is immediately expressed from birth, sorry to point out.

Gambini you are definitely right, you can ALWAYS choose something else. Next time you go swimming you should choose to attempt to breathe. Or maybe you should choose to never have any sex again! Or you could choose to never eat anything other than apples. Hell, you should quit sleeping! It's just a strong desire!

Just because you have choices doesn't mean they are healthy or realistic. It's funny that you seem to assume that someone gay would immediately be interested in having sex with you and be interested enough that you should feel they would try to do so without prompting. I believe that's called homophobia.

Interestingly it also seems to threaten your sexuality since it implies if it happened you might end up doing something gay.

Spoiler

There's no evidence anywhere that homosexuality between consenting individuals has negative affects other than social stigma. There's also no evidence that exposure to gay people has negative affects on society.

Learn, don't make assumptions.

P.S.

Anecdote is not the same as evidence.

[Fox]

 Gambini, on 14 August 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

You should not discrimate people by things they can´t change. Being gay is a choice, even if it´s based on a strong desire.

And I don´t quite understand all this sham about not disliking anybody by what they are. Discrimitating is not the same than marginating. I would not want to share a room or a public shower with someone that is gay. Do you think I´m homophobic because of that? Because I´m not.

What if we change it to not sharing a room or public shower with a black person, or a disabled person? Does that sounds racist or discriminative?

 Mblackwell, on 14 August 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

It's funny that you seem to assume that someone gay would immediately be interested in having sex with you and be interested enough that you should feel they would try to do so without prompting. I believe that's called homophobia.

It's a stereotype. I am not sure if a negative stereotype can be considered a phobia or not.

 Mblackwell, on 14 August 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Gambini you are definitely right, you can ALWAYS choose something else. Next time you go swimming you should choose to attempt to breathe. Or maybe you should choose to never have any sex again! Or you could choose to never eat anything other than apples. Hell, you should quit sleeping! It's just a strong desire!

Just because you have choices doesn't mean they are healthy or realistic.

What is a choice in our lives? Do we really choose anything? I mean, anything we do has genetics involved to some extends or is related to how our brains works. Including crimes. But according to our societies an adult (commonly above 18 years) is responsible for his acts, thus we have a "choice".

[Mark]

I believe that with the new explicit sex education cirriculum in schools which remove all judgement or shame on homosexuality and actually encourages experimentation we will see an increase in gay relationships. Redifining them as normal in TV shows is contributing to this too. I think way more kids today are cool with it than back in my day. So what I'm saying is some will try same sex partners for no other reason than they are being told its "all right" or "natural". I don't think they were necessarily predisposed for it. Could be simple peer pressure. Could be some other's are "born" that way. I think its an all of the above thing.

[Gambini]

@Mblackwell: You´re building things out of proportion. Chosing to be gay is not the same as chosing to breath or to sleep. Those are biological needs. Also, I doubt they´d have any sexual interest on me. Is not that what I´m afraid of. Is the uncomfortable feeling of knowing that someone can find a sexual vision of an otherwise asexual situation.

Otherwise I´m fine wit gay people, as long as they don´t flirt me. I had a gay couple as neighbouring some years ago and never felt uncomfortable about them, they were nice.

Quote

What if we change it to not sharing a room or public shower with a black person, or a disabled person? Does that sounds racist or discriminative?

Bad comparision. Just as women don´t share their bathroom with me, I can´t play in the hammock of my town´s park, and I´m not allowed to eat lunch in my job´s cafeteria (because i get my lunch paid for eating outside) and I don´t feel discriminated because of that.

I don´t understand why people is trying to twist words and bend concepts to make me look like an homophobic. Does this mean that if i ever met a woman, and when we get a room and she takes her panties out, a beefy 6 inches penis hangs from her crotch, i have still to keep going because otherwise I´d be an homophobic?

[Jimmy]

The problem isn't really that he called the splitscreen mod gay. I often 'play gay' for a gag, or call people faggot or whatever, but I'm merely kidding (and yes I know I'm an obnoxious douche.) I think by holding words in reverence, you give them power. I think insulting someone purely because they're gay or black or white or whatever is lame. The problem with Paul's post was where he said "This mod is gay. BUT APPARENTLY BEING GAY IS OKAY NOW." I would have looked over his post with no problem if he just said "This mod is gay." because I would have assumed he used it in a snide non-homophobic way, but he implied homosexuality is wrong and somehow it's society's fault gay people are cool even though they're hellbound and this mod sucks because gays are gay.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 Gambini, on 14 August 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Does this mean that if i ever met a woman, and when we get a room and she takes her panties out

Well, if you choose to fuck someone based solely on your first impression of that person, I think you have more problems than the hypothetical moral crisis that you presented about whether or not to have sex with a transsexual. But then again, I've never been a fan of one-night stands, so perhaps I'm not to have an opinion on this matter?

[High Treason]

Transexual? What if it was a hermaphrodite, is it still gay then?



I like the way we have only discussed homosexual males in this thread, no mention of females and certainly no complaints about them, rather odd, don't you think?

[Fox]

 Marked, on 14 August 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I believe that with the new explicit sex education cirriculum in schools which remove all judgement or shame on homosexuality and actually encourages experimentation we will see an increase in gay relationships. Redifining them as normal in TV shows is contributing to this too. I think way more kids today are cool with it than back in my day. So what I'm saying is some will try same sex partners for no other reason than they are being told its "all right" or "natural". I don't think they were necessarily predisposed for it. Could be simple peer pressure. Could be some other's are "born" that way. I think its an all of the above thing.

What is the problem with more people wanting to be gay?

[Mark]

Either I worded something wrong or you are reading something into my words. I tried to be opinion neutral and just explain something about the society versus nature aspect. No more from me, but I'll continue reading the posts.

[Gambini]

Quote

What is the problem with more people wanting to be gay?

Then so, the whole idea of it being something genetic is flawed. I personally think it is ok they have their place in a society but not to the point of promoting homosexuality all around. Just as a lot of gays never come out of the closet and pretend living a regular life. Straight individuals would have gay relationships just because the social presure of their surrounding.

And if the concept of homosexuality being not thaaat great is wrong, ask yourself this question:If you ever have a son and some night he´s going to introduce you his new couple: Would it be exaclty the same for you whether it is a girl or a boy?

[Jimmy]

I wouldn't care if my son/daughter were gay or not, as long as they were happy and truly felt that way. And a lot of people are in the closet because they fear backlash from the very folks who should love them for who they are. Nothing hurts more than complete rejection from someone you love.

[Mblackwell]

 Gambini, on 14 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Then so, the whole idea of it being something genetic is flawed. I personally think it is ok they have their place in a society but not to the point of promoting homosexuality all around. Just as a lot of gays never come out of the closet and pretend living a regular life. Straight individuals would have gay relationships just because the social presure of their surrounding.

And if the concept of homosexuality being not thaaat great is wrong, ask yourself this question:If you ever have a son and some night he´s going to introduce you his new couple: Would it be exaclty the same for you whether it is a girl or a boy?

The whole idea is flawed because someone made that statement?

I'm sorry sir but unfortunately scientific evidence is on the side of being gay as part of biology, not society.

I don't know about you but just because I have gay friends doesn't mean I want to divorce my wife and go suck dick. Not because I think it's wrong but because I'm not sexually attracted to men.

[Fox]

 Mblackwell, on 14 August 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

I'm sorry sir but unfortunately scientific evidence is on the side of being gay as part of biology, not society.

No, it is not. I could (and I would like to) criticize the kind if "scientific" research about the subject, but I won't because I don't think it is revelant here. Whenever gay being a choice or not seems to be a social or political question, not scientific.

[Gambini]

Quote

I don't know about you but just because I have gay friends doesn't mean I want to divorce my wife and go suck dick. Not because I think it's wrong but because I'm not sexually attracted to men.

I´m sure you´re a grown up guy that has already built his personality. A lot of people dos things in their puberty they later regret. Just because they was following a fashion or trying to integrate with some group of people.

[Forge]

So what's the big deal about being gay? You like one stinky hole over another.

Another person's sexual orientation has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about them. It matters to me about as much as the color of their eyes.

If anything I support it. There's enough heterosexuals running around randomly humping everything with a pulse and squirting out litters. Homosexuality helps keep the population growth in check.

[Danukem]

 Fox, on 14 August 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

No, it is not. I could (and I would like to) criticize the kind if "scientific" research about the subject, but I won't because I don't think it is revelant here. Whenever gay being a choice or not seems to be a social or political question, not scientific.

I don't really see why it matters whether there is a known genetic or otherwise biological underpinning for homosexuality. Regardless of the mechanism, we do know that for many people, it does not present itself as a choice, but rather a strong preference that they cannot control.

_________________


As for the splitscreen mod -- obviously it is designed for people who have friends they are willing to sit next to. Try it with a girlfriend! If you don't have one, or don't have one who likes games, then that's sad but don't take your frustrations out on gays. [note this last comment is not directed at Fox]

[Mblackwell]

 Gambini, on 14 August 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

I´m sure you´re a grown up guy that has already built his personality. A lot of people dos things in their puberty they later regret. Just because they was following a fashion or trying to integrate with some group of people.

Someone who slept with a member of their own sex to see what it was like and then decided they actually didn't like sleeping with same-sex partners would be considered heterosexual.

And since when do we stop adolescents from performing non-destructive behaviors as a means of growth?

[Danukem]

^ I have known some people who were confused about their sexuality because they thought it was cool to be gay (and then realized they weren't). I don't know of any real harm that came of it, though. I mean, aside from the pain caused to the actual gay people they broke up with.

*shrugs*

[Jimmy]

 Mblackwell, on 14 August 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

And since when do we stop adolescents from performing non-destructing behaviors as a means of growth?

More people need to realize this shit. Especially parents.

[CruX]

 Gambini, on 14 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Straight individuals would have gay relationships just because the social presure of their surrounding.

Oh Gambini, you so crazy *EDIT* Joking aside, I'm about as straight as they come, and if I tried to go down on a guy just because I felt some unconfirmed social pressure to do so, I think that'd say something more about me and how fucked up I'd be in the head than it would about the society I was living in.

Quote

And if the concept of homosexuality being not thaaat great is wrong, ask yourself this question:If you ever have a son and some night he´s going to introduce you his new couple: Would it be exaclty the same for you whether it is a girl or a boy?

Assuming he didn't have to suffer through existence in a bigoted society that hates him just for his orientation, I'd actually prefer my son be gay so he can't knock up some girl when he's sixteen. This is coming from someone that never wants to have kids though, so take that however you want.