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Rational People vs Anti-Gay People and Their Terrible Opinions  "split for offtopic"

User is offline   Spirrwell 

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#91

View PostMblackwell, on 16 August 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Not really a platform for hate speech. Just a platform for open dialog and in this case someone said something hateful and the majority jumped down his throat and said, "Look, that's just fucking retarded."

Except more eloquently.

Frankly, if you want the topic to die your best bet is to just stop posting in it, locking it is not really called for in this instance.

I understand the purpose, but the guy Paul B has left. I simply thought that since the reason the thread was split in the first place is now gone that it would make sense to close down the thread. It doesn't really matter to me either way, I just don't see the point of this thread's continuation other than to argue about it. Someone else might come along and start complaining about homosexual people in this thread and it could really easily be blown up.

Well, those are my considerations, and I'll leave this thread alone. I simply wanted to make a fine line between morality and actual reasons, granted the reasons I supplied were still nonsense.

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User is online   Mark 

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#92

View Postwayskobfssae, on 15 August 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

As for reproduction... 99% of humanity could turn gay tomorrow and there'd probably still be enough reproduction to guarantee our our continued survival for generations to come. If anything we're more in danger of destroying ourselves with overpopulation. So in that respect, at this point a civilization that is universally OK with homosexuality has a much better chance of still being here a few hundred years from now.


According to the CIA World Factbook, as of July, 2005, there were approximately 6,446,131,400 people on the planet, and the death rate was approximately 8.78 deaths per 1,000 people a year. According to our nifty desktop calculator, that works out to roughly 56,597,034 people leaving us every year. That's about a 155,000 a day.

What amount of years is considered a generation? 30-40 years? Roughly 56 million x 30 or 40-- x how many generations you want. Somebody do the math, I'm curious.

I found the calculator on my computer. Roughly 2.25 billion people dead every 40 year generation.

This post has been edited by Marked: 16 August 2012 - 05:25 PM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

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#93

View PostMblackwell, on 16 August 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Frankly, if you want the topic to die your best bet is to just stop posting in it, locking it is not really called for in this instance.


Yeah I think it's funny how people call for a thread to be locked just because people are interested and writing passionate posts in it. As the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Not that I condone flaming, of course, but that's a different matter.
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#94

View PostSpirrwell, on 16 August 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

I understand the purpose, but the guy Paul B has left. I simply thought that since the reason the thread was split in the first place is now gone that it would make sense to close down the thread. It doesn't really matter to me either way, I just don't see the point of this thread's continuation other than to argue about it. Someone else might come along and start complaining about homosexual people in this thread and it could really easily be blown up.

Well, those are my considerations, and I'll leave this thread alone. I simply wanted to make a fine line between morality and actual reasons, granted the reasons I supplied were still nonsense.


I doubt he's left, he's probably still lurking around here in hopes that someone will be defending him or something.

But on topic, what Paul B said stirred up a lot of controversy and stuff, and it's not just going to disappear or anything; it's better to have it all summarized in this thread than to have it go on and on in all kinds of different threads, derailing them all, no? :lol:
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User is offline   Master Fibbles 

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#95

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm offended by the title of this thread (the implication that there is any rational discussion in this thread is offensive).


Any type of hatred and insulting is hatred and insulting, even when it is against someone who is insulting others. Even though there is a large majority that agrees with the original post etc, that does not make it not insulting to infer that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not rational.

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User is offline   Jblade 

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#96

View PostMr.Flibble, on 17 August 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm offended by the title of this thread (the implication that there is any rational discussion in this thread is offensive).


Any type of hatred and insulting is hatred and insulting, even when it is against someone who is insulting others. Even though there is a large majority that agrees with the original post etc, that does not make it not insulting to infer that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not rational.

Racist and homophobic people, who live on spreading their own lies and hatred, do not deserve to be treated fairly or rationally. He started spewing homophobic slurs and filth, so he will get no kind of respect back. Respect is earned, not given (especially not to people who WANT others to be marginilised and trod on)
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

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#97

View PostJames, on 17 August 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Racist and homophobic people, who live on spreading their own lies and hatred, do not deserve to be treated fairly or rationally. He started spewing homophobic slurs and filth, so he will get no kind of respect back. Respect is earned, not given (especially not to people who WANT others to be marginilised and trod on)


We haven't even touched upon the subject of gay marriage yet, and I promise you that topic is far more divisive and controversial than the relatively easy question as to whether gays should be treated equally as heterosexuals (they should be, of course). In that sense, I agree with Mr. Flibble.

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User is offline   Sangman 

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#98

View PostMblackwell, on 16 August 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Not really a platform for hate speech. Just a platform for open dialog and in this case someone said something hateful and the majority jumped down his throat and said, "Look, that's just fucking retarded."


So - and I'm sorry if the following offends anyone, I'm just trying to make a point - if I were to say "I hate niggers, spics, gays and jews" I'd get my own thread as well? Cause that sounds pretty fucked up. Unfortunately that is, to me, exactly what this thread is.


View PostJames, on 17 August 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Racist and homophobic people, who live on spreading their own lies and hatred, do not deserve to be treated fairly or rationally. He started spewing homophobic slurs and filth, so he will get no kind of respect back. Respect is earned, not given (especially not to people who WANT others to be marginilised and trod on)


Amen brutha.

Quote

Yeah I think it's funny how people call for a thread to be locked just because people are interested and writing passionate posts in it. As the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Not that I condone flaming, of course, but that's a different matter.


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User is offline   Forge 

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#99

If two people are bonded by love, caring, compassion, and all the other qualities that form a wedded union, what right does anyone have to say they can't be married?

If a homosexual couple want children, other than using surrogates or donors, they can also perform a service to the public by adopting those unwanted children that heterosexuals so proudly produce in droves. (heterosexuals being so much more responsible and trustworthy with their sexual relations that it warrants them the right to be married)

This post has been edited by Forge: 17 August 2012 - 08:46 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#100

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

So - and I'm sorry if the following offends anyone, I'm just trying to make a point - if I were to say "I hate niggers, spics, gays and jews" I'd get my own thread as well? Cause that sounds pretty fucked up. Unfortunately that is, to me, exactly what this thread is.


I can agree with this and such posts and comments should be deleted right away, but this can be viewed as a "pioneer" thread. The original post that started all this (which was deleted) was so full of hate and ignorance that it caused a fairly significant response. It's not surprising that such misunderstanding and loathing still permeate society today, but the uneducated and irrational thinking behind it can be dumbfounding. This is the thread to get it all out on the table now and be done with it so it doesn't filter into the rest of the forum.

The title of this thread should be changed from "anti-gay people" to "prejudiced people".
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User is offline   The Commander 

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#101

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 16 August 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Here, hit the bong, Cody.

*puff puff* pass.
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User is offline   Sangman 

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#102

View PostForge, on 17 August 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

This is the thread to get it all out on the table now and be done with it so it doesn't filter into the rest of the forum.


So the point of this thread is to post about hating certain kinds of people in the world just to "let it out". Gotcha.


No but really it amazes me how warped some logic here is. I know the mod team here doesn't believe in censorship but how letting out ignorant hate speech (cause that is what it was) is not grounds for immediate termination is just entirely beyond me.

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User is offline   Forge 

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#103

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

So the point of this thread is to post about hating certain kinds of people in the world just to "let it out". Gotcha.


Unfortunately. Pandora's box was opened and too many people seen it and reacted.

Other than splitting the topic into this thread, keep the discussion localized, and letting it run its course, the only other option would be for the admins to delete every post that pops up about it. Contrary to having a heated discussion, it's possible that deleting every post would just make things worse. If someone knows their comments are going to be removed shortly after posting them, then they might be emboldened to say something with a bit more "stronger" wordage than they normally would. It could be like throwing gas on the fire.
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User is offline   Sangman 

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#104

Quote

If someone knows their comments are going to be removed shortly after posting them, then they might be emboldened to say something with a bit more "stronger" wordage than they normally would.


So? If people feel inclined to have such behaviour that's all the more reason they don't belong on an internet forum in the first place.

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User is offline   Kathy 

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#105

View PostForge, on 17 August 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

If someone knows their comments are going to be removed shortly after posting them, then they might be emboldened to say something with a bit more "stronger" wordage than they normally would. It could be like throwing gas on the fire.

Actually, deleted post is a sure way to get banned permanantly if you repeat it.

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User is offline   Forge 

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#106

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

So? If people feel inclined to have such behaviour that's all the more reason they don't belong on an internet forum in the first place.


I agree. And least of all in this community.

If this had happened at CGS I probably would have had the knee-jerk reaction to lock the thread with the proclamation that such rhetoric is not tolerated, and then banned the party(s) involved. I wouldn't have had the balls like the admins here to let it go as far as it did.

What you're saying has merit, but I think the admins made the right choice. From what I can see the people who are more open minded to the life choices of their fellow human beings, or are at least not tolerant of hate filled ravings, have a stronger showing than those with the more "conservative" view about personal relationships. The reputation system here paid off in spades and this thread should stand as a warning to anyone else who feels the need to go on a rant about their harbored hatred.

View PostBurnett, on 17 August 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Actually, deleted post is a sure way to get banned permanantly if you repeat it.


It only takes one strongly worded post to incite a reaction. Just ask Paul B

This post has been edited by Forge: 17 August 2012 - 11:14 AM

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User is offline   Martin 

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#107

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 16 August 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Yeah, uh, how exactly does killing myself solve the human problem? In fact, it just adds further suffering and distress upon others. No thanks.

Also, lock the thread? Why? What do you folks have against discourse? The whole point of a forum is discourse.


Indeed! I thought we had talked about split-screen enough. What's to talk about? Split-screen is always an awesome feature. You don't have to use it, but it's there if you want it. Resident Evil 5 would never have been good if I couldn't have played through it with my friend Josh, a couple beers and some weed. Yes, internet play brings advantages, and is the main way a lot of multiplayer goes downthese days. There's still a place for split-screen: co-operative games between two people. As long as it runs well, I've found two-player co-op to always be best in split-screen. LAN in the same room would be even better, but LAN is hassle to set up, and has to be planned/arranged. Whereas my PS3 sits there, and randomly it'll get switched on when someone goes "Shall we do some Nazi Zombies?" or something. You do get minor lag in LAN, as well (I've had a fair few LAN parties). LAN is awesome, but split-screen serves a certain purpose to this day (when it has lost a lot of it's purposes), and it will always have a place in my heart. As long as my PS3 is there with two pads, there's some good multiplayer to be had. I don't have to arrange anything. It's just there for spontaneous use.

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User is offline   Sangman 

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#108

View PostForge, on 17 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I wouldn't have had the balls like the admins here to let it go as far as it did.


With no disrespect to admins, how does this take balls? Taking almost no action is not a specifically courageous act. The policy here seems to be "anything goes" so you never actually have to punish people for anything. This does not take balls.

Quote

From what I can see the people who are more open minded to the life choices of their fellow human beings, or are at least not tolerant of hate filled ravings, have a stronger showing than those with the more "conservative" view about personal relationships.


You say that like it's a bad thing.

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User is offline   rasmus thorup 

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#109

Where i come from, the word gay is more accepted because people are more casual with it. It's more accepted, so we can joke a little about it. I bet that it's the opposite with some of the people here. Why not be more casual?
Paul B's post didn't offend me at all, and it wouldn't offend my gay friends at all.
And it disgusts me that people call other peoples posts childish.

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This post has been edited by rasmus thorup: 17 August 2012 - 11:54 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#110

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

With no disrespect to admins, how does this take balls? Taking almost no action is not a specifically courageous act. The policy here seems to be "anything goes" so you never actually have to punish people for anything. This does not take balls.


Doing "nothing" is doing something. This thread could have easily got out of hand and went the other way, turning into a huge flame-fest. They took that chance.

Quote

You say that like it's a bad thing.


I'm not sure what you mean, but it is a counter-point of sorts to something said earlier. From my perspective this thread is not a platform for hate filled non-sense, its a platform to object to hate filled non-sense.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

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#111

What is this thread about? Homophobia and gay rights? The US is the most accepting, non-bigoted country in the world and I can assure you Paul B is in a shrinking minority of ignorant boring people. You're making a big deal out of nothing. Where's the outrage over Moscow's banning of gay pride parades for the next 100 years? This happened today and almost nobody is talking about it anywhere.
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User is offline   Sangman 

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#112

View Postrasmus thorup, on 17 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Where i come from, the word gay is more accepted because people are more casual with it. It's more accepted, so we can joke a little about it. I bet that it's the opposite with some of the people here. Why not be more casual?
Paul B's post didn't offend me at all, and it wouldn't offend my gay friends at all.
And it disgusts me that people call other peoples posts childish.


I am perfectly fine with gay jokes. What Paul B said does not classify as one.


View PostMad Max RW, on 17 August 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

What is this thread about? Homophobia and gay rights? The US is the most accepting, non-bigoted country in the world and I can assure you Paul B is in a shrinking minority of ignorant boring people. You're making a big deal out of nothing. Where's the outrage over Moscow's banning of gay pride parades for the next 100 years? This happened today and almost nobody is talking about it anywhere.


Hadn't heard about this - yes, that is equally terrible. However your point makes no sense, just because we're not mad at gaybashing in one context for whatever reason (in my case: ignorance of that taking place) we can't be in any context at all? Also maybe I didn't read the thread carefully but nobody here is talking about this being typical US bigotry or anything.

All I'm saying is what Paul B wrote is unacceptable and IMO he should be banned, if not permanently at least temporarily. And if he doesn't then this sets the disturbing precedent that indeed ANYTHING can be said on these forums.

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

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#113

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

All I'm saying is what Paul B wrote is unacceptable and IMO he should be banned, if not permanently at least temporarily. And if he doesn't then this sets the disturbing precedent that indeed ANYTHING can be said on these forums.


To be fair, we let insane and clear trollbait comments from people like blackharted, Disruptor and CultureShock stay for the longest time without bans, and these people were clearly unhelpful to the Duke Nukem community. At least Paul B can say he actually contributed with his own maps. He's definitely on the wrong side of this issue, but banning him is rather disproportionate at this stage.

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User is offline   Forge 

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#114

View Postrasmus thorup, on 17 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Where i come from, the word gay is more accepted because people are more casual with it. It's more accepted, so we can joke a little about it. I bet that it's the opposite with some of the people here. Why not be more casual?
Paul B's post didn't offend me at all, and it wouldn't offend my gay friends at all.
And it disgusts me that people call other peoples posts childish.


Paul B calling something gay wasn't the issue until he went off on some extended rant about how much he hates homosexuals (that post was subsequently deleted)

Should he be banned for his comments? Not my site, not my call, but if this had happened at CGS he would have been at least temporarily banned at the minimum. (but there's no rep system set up over there just to show how dumb his comments are)

As for Moscow banning gay pride parades, another fine example of ignorance running rampant. Their excuses for the ban are pathetic. I hope the Council of Europe does the right thing.

This post has been edited by Forge: 17 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

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User is offline   Sangman 

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#115

View PostAchenar, on 17 August 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

To be fair, we let insane and clear trollbait comments from people like blackharted, Disruptor and CultureShock stay for the longest time without bans


Maybe my memory is failing me but apart from CS (who did get banned) I have no idea who blackharted and Disruptor are or what they said.

Even then, surely there is a difference between trollbait (which is usually pretty obvious) and, well, this.

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

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#116

View PostSangman, on 17 August 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:


Hadn't heard about this - yes, that is equally terrible. However your point makes no sense, just because we're not mad at gaybashing in one context for whatever reason (in my case: ignorance of that taking place) we can't be in any context at all? Also maybe I didn't read the thread carefully but nobody here is talking about this being typical US bigotry or anything.

All I'm saying is what Paul B wrote is unacceptable and IMO he should be banned, if not permanently at least temporarily. And if he doesn't then this sets the disturbing precedent that indeed ANYTHING can be said on these forums.


If the guy kept spamming his shit for days I'd vote for a ban. But let's not turn this into the Gearbox forums. Half the people here would have been banned long ago. Anyway, he appears to have left the conversation Monday and other people kept it going in all different directions for the entire week. I see the possibility for a good discussion here if people can let it go.
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User is offline   TerminX 

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  #117

He's not banned because while I find his opinion on the matter deeply offensive, I support his right to have that opinion and express it. The fact of the matter is that the hardcore conservatives who hold such opinions probably feel just as offended by our opinions (because just as their opinions go against our beliefs, our opinions go against theirs). Just as they're forced to co-exist with our opinions, we are forced to co-exist with theirs. The backlash one gets from posting such opinions (and in such a manner) is probably punishment enough. I don't really believe in censorship, even if it's censorship of content I fundamentally disagree with.

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

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#118

View PostTerminX, on 17 August 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

He's not banned because while I find his opinion on the matter deeply offensive, I support his right to have that opinion and express it. The fact of the matter is that the hardcore conservatives who hold such opinions probably feel just as offended by our opinions (because just as their opinions go against our beliefs, our opinions go against theirs). Just as they're forced to co-exist with our opinions, we are forced to co-exist with theirs. The backlash one gets from posting such opinions (and in such a manner) is probably punishment enough. I don't really believe in censorship, even if it's censorship of content I fundamentally disagree with.


Basically this post summarizes quite eloquently what I failed to sufficiently state in mine.

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User is offline   Sangman 

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#119

TerminX, I understand your opinion but I disagree. Best to leave it at that though.

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User is offline   LeoD 

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#120

View PostMad Max RW, on 17 August 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

The US is the most accepting, non-bigoted country in the world
Muhaha, you made my day. The world is more than Russia, China and muslim-threatened oil wells.
The hate Paul B has received for stating his silly opinion makes me wonder how tolerant some people are besides not disliking gays. They seem to have waited for for a chance to let it all out. A shitstorm as massive as this was somewhat disproportional and surely does not improve communication between people with different opinions.
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