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Doom 3: BFG Edition  "PC, 360, and PS3."

User is offline   thatguy 

#121

Zenimax had nothing to do with it. :)
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User is online   t800 

#122

View Posts.b.Newsom, on 19 October 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Zenimax had nothing to do with it. :)

And how do you know it? Any sources?
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User is offline   Kathy 

#123

Do we have any sources suggesting it was Zenimax? I don't know why people always tend to blame publisher. Anyway, did anyone asked id why did they change that level?
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User is offline   Martin 

#124

Hrmm, was going to get this tomorrow (as you guys know, I was excited for it) but the reviews have been a mixed-bag. Some people love it, some people think it's shit. Not too different from the original release, I guess! I see in screenshots/vids that the graphics in fact haven't really been given much of an upgrade. Far as I can tell, it's the same environmental textures at least. Counsellor Swan and all them lot have been given minor upgrades, but that's about it. Lighting seems very different. 'Better' is subjective. There's generally a bit more light going around, though it's still a dark game. I guess maybe some of the shaders and whatnot are new? Apparently it runs on some kind of bastard hybrid of idTech 4 + 5. Still, overall I don't see as much of a visual-upgrade as I would have liked. This for me is a downer. I never owned the PC original (only the 2005 Xbox port), but have played most of the game on PC as well recently (vanilla, no mods).

That said, I did notice in a video review that Doomguy moves quite a bit faster, and gun sounds have changed. Also, along with this faster movement, more light, there's now more ammo. While id may not have lived-up to the 'we're enhancing the graphics' statement as much as many would have liked, they certainly seemed to have turned it into an action/horror shooter rather than just straight horror. It's Lovecraftean ambitions were never truly met anyway, if we're all honest. Still, I'll reserve judgement on this until I play it myself whether I prefer my Doom 3 "horror as possible" or "scary action".

What I definitely don't want is for it to be easier as a result. In the original version, I remember ammo getting scarce enough that I had to make a habit of batting zombies on the forehead with my torch just to save some precious bullets. If there's just more ammo, then that's a lot of tension gone down the toilet (which in addition to the 'anytime you like' torch would rob it of a lot). They'd need to up the enemy count, and/or increase enemy health.

Still undecided whether to take the plunge for it, tomorrow. Was going to trade-in MW3 and GoldenEye Reloaded against it and get it cheap, now I'm thinking I might just not bother. We'll see. I'll have a talk with me MW3 and GE boxes tomorrow, see if they can convince me that they should be in my house rather than another Doom 3 box. I have the sweet-ass collector's tin of the original Xbox port, one of my favourite game boxes of all time!

Spoiler


If I do get it, you can believe that I'm putting my BFG Blu-ray in that sucker and throwing out the Xbox disc/PS3 box!

View PostAchenar, on 19 October 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Nazi symbols are outrageous but Satanic/hellish symbols are not? Selective political correctness creeping in again...

I guess they wanted to make absolutely sure the game could get released in Germany.


Totally this! +1

Censorship is stupid because it's almost always done in a really stupid way. I suppose this isn't really fair, and maybe it's just super-noticeable when it is done in a no-brained manner. Whatever the case, if a portrait of Hitler and images of swastikas are taken out of a product which otherwise contains other potentially-offensive imagery.. yeah. Someone left their brain cells at home. I mean, I swear in the classic Doom games you could do things like blast a Mancubus to death, watching brain-matter and other assorted innards slide out from newly-created wounds as the creature slumps to the floor in a groan of agony (why 3D models will never live up to 2D sprites, btw)? So disgusting levels of violence is OK, but a swastika or what have you isn't?

Much the same situation with Duke 64. Those where the dying days of strict Nintendo censorship, though. So you could imagine it there. I remember even worrying that it was going to happen in Duke 64 before the game came out. Here.. come on now. DOn't be silly. I can handle pixellated SS troopers and Hitler paintings. It's ultimately only really a slight blemish, but was totally unnecessary. Why do it? What could have been my awesome PS3 versions of Doom I & II will now be my slightly-sanitised PS3 versions of Doom I & II. Shame.
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User is online   t800 

#125

I dont blame Zenimax specifically or Id either. I blame them both untill I get evidence of who is responsible for this state. I am open to any sources of information.
I hear only criticism about censored Wolfenstein themed secret levels from Doom 2. I know that it is important but what about that limitations integrated in Doom 3, arent they important for you too? I mean almost no graphical options (game internally locked on high settings {not ultra}), disabled console, no mod support, cancelled flashlight (you know I liked it, changing between it and guns made some tension and adrenaline pumping moments), low FOV, etc...
And lets be honest - why even worry about these ports of Doom and Doom 2 included in this pack. Do you really want to use them exclusively for old shool doom experience? IMHO source ports like Zdoom and Doomsday are much better, more advanced and offers huge ammount of adjustable options.
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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental

#126

I don't know why the limiting settings in the PC version suprises anyone. id JUST put out RAGE. They pulled this same exact crap. Why? Because they honestly believe you are stupid. They believe they know better than you on how your computer can handle the game.

I won't be buying the BFG edition anyway. I own Doom 3, I own Doom 2 and Doom from the Ultimate collectors edition back in the 90s. (Which also included TNT, and Plutonia). Hell, I own Doom twice. I bought it on Steam to show my support for classic games, along with the Keen Collection.


Censorship to boot? Wow. I didn't know we were back in the early 90s where they had to take the dogs and nazies out of Wolf on SNES. Seriously, whoever is responsible can promptly go fuck themselves right up the ass with a stalagmite.


There is no reason for PC ports to not have fully functional customization. Especially for a game that shipped with the ability to change many settings now absent from the new launch.
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User is offline   Martin 

#127

View Postt800, on 19 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

I hear only criticism about censored Wolfenstein themed secret levels from Doom 2. I know that it is important but what about that limitations integrated in Doom 3, arent they important for you too? I mean almost no graphical options (game internally locked on high settings {not ultra}), disabled console, no mod support, cancelled flashlight (you know I liked it, changing between it and guns made some tension and adrenaline pumping moments), low FOV, etc...


With the exception of the new torch mechanic, none of those things effect me. [/PS3]

I'll decide how I like the new torch mechanic, faster Doomguy, more ammo etc if I get this tomorrow.

View Postt800, on 19 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

And lets be honest - why even worry about these ports of Doom and Doom 2 included in this pack. Do you really want to use them exclusively for old shool doom experience? IMHO source ports like Zdoom and Doomsday are much better, more advanced and offers huge ammount of adjustable options.


Well, I guess we're not all interested in it for the same reasons. I don't game on PC, therefore I don't have a nice version of Doom 3 to play. I have a crappy Xbox version of Doom 3 in an awesome tin. At the time it was a very impressive port to the original Xbox, but in 2012 it just doesn't compare to proper Doom 3. The irony here is that this BFG edition might be counted as not being the 'proper version' either, given the changes. Because I don't have a Steam account and all that, I don't have access to a box set of all the Doom games. Again mentioning my old Xbox Doom 3, that did come with Doom I & II actually. Fuck. Maybe I won't get BFG, but instead play them in grainy 480p, Doom 3 in all its simplified, pared-back glory!
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#128

The game is easier. There are more health stations around (than I can remember) and of course the weapons are able to hold more ammunition. I just finished the main Campaign in 6 and a bit hours.

I just don't think this should have been released to PC and stayed a console exclusive or something. But then I suppose everyone would have complained anyway.

EDIT: I think I know what this release is now. It's like what we would get if Doom 3 was released today and I think this video really helps get that opinion across.



This post has been edited by Lunick: 19 October 2012 - 04:30 PM

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User is offline   Martin 

#129

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

The game is easier.


:)

Well, that sucks. How about the hardest difficulty? Is that too easy?
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#130

View PostMartin, on 19 October 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

:)

Well, that sucks. How about the hardest difficulty? Is that too easy?


Haven't bothered trying. I want to play through all of the expansions before trying a harder difficulty.
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User is offline   Martin 

#131

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I think I know what this release is now. It's like what we would get if Doom 3 was released today and I think this video really helps get that opinion across.

>>video<<


Kinda. They haven't made it more linear, added iron sights and such have they? :)
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User is offline   Kathy 

#132

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I think this video really helps get that opinion across.

It doesn't.

View PostMartin, on 19 October 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Kinda. They haven't made it more linear, added iron sights and such have they? :)

No, but they made it more fast paced and less dark/horror. So... kind of like it should have been in the first place maybe. Those consoles...

This post has been edited by Burnett: 19 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

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User is offline   Martin 

#133

You're just jealous because I have the privilege of playing on a far less powerful system that has worse controls and the games cost more. Admit it - you wish you had a PS3.

On another note, I hear that this game runs natively in 1080p on consoles, at 60fps. Anyone here own it on console?
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#134

View PostMartin, on 19 October 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

You're just jealous because I have the privilege of playing on a far less powerful system that has worse controls and the games cost more. Admit it - you wish you had a PS3.

On another note, I hear that this game runs natively in 1080p on consoles, at 60fps. Anyone here own it on console?


I hear it runs on an upscaled 720p on consoles.
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User is offline   thatguy 

#135

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

The game is easier. There are more health stations around (than I can remember) and of course the weapons are able to hold more ammunition. I just finished the main Campaign in 6 and a bit hours.

I just don't think this should have been released to PC and stayed a console exclusive or something. But then I suppose everyone would have complained anyway.

EDIT: I think I know what this release is now. It's like what we would get if Doom 3 was released today and I think this video really helps get that opinion across.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU


I still think this is the stupidest representation of modern gaming. Really? There are few games like this and they are all first person shooters. First person games that is ether made by EA or....Activision. Yeah trying to think of another publisher. Quake wouldn't be like that if it was made today, why? because it would of been made by ID, not Raven Software which Quake 4 was done by. Doom 3 was by no means like that either. Very indepth game for coming from a very simple game design. If you want dumbed down, Doom would be just that if it was made inch by inch identical. Why? Because all Doom was, was a bunch of monsters with terrible AI, either patrolling a set path or standing alone until it see's the player. The original doom is more like modern gaming than you think. It was simple, easy to play. Only difference was the difficulty. Difficulty, not gameplay.

This post has been edited by s.b.Newsom: 19 October 2012 - 07:41 PM

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User is offline   Martin 

#136

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

I hear it runs on an upscaled 720p on consoles.


Lol, that's what I thought. I know I've seen various people mentioning it in comments fields under reviews and things that the 360 version is 1080p. No word on the PS3 version one way or the other. I'm guessing neither version runs natively at 1080p, and some people out there just don't know the difference between 'native' and 'upscaled'. I suppose I shouldn't pay any mind to what people post under reviews and whatnot. I remember explaining to someone once that just because all his 360 games had a 'Supports 1080p' with a tick next to it on the back of the box, doesn't mean it's actually 1080p. It just means that it will scale up to that.

I'll know when I see it if it's 1080p. I'm holding out hope since it's such an old game, maybe the consoles can do it? The only retail game I've seen on console at proper 1080p was Virtua Fighter 5. Plenty of XBLA and PSN games are 1080p, though.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#137

Just saw BFG edition on steam... $40?? For an 8 year old game?? Man, I don't care how much they touched it up/added stuff too it, there's no way I'm buying that (I've never played Doom 3 before, or even finished any of the original Dooms).

They're just being greedy bastards now. Serious Sam HD, which added a whole lot more to the game than this BFG edition, is only $15 (although I'm not sure what it was when it originally came out). And now you can't buy the original Doom 3 unless you get the $100 id pack http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif
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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#138

View PostMicky C, on 20 October 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

Just saw BFG edition on steam... $40?? For an 8 year old game?? Man, I don't care how much they touched it up/added stuff too it, there's no way I'm buying that (I've never played Doom 3 before, or even finished any of the original Dooms).

They're just being greedy bastards now. Serious Sam HD, which added a whole lot more to the game than this BFG edition, is only $15 (although I'm not sure what it was when it originally came out). And now you can't buy the original Doom 3 unless you get the $100 id pack http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif


It's 10 bucks more expensive here (how surprising) so I picked up my copy at Greenmangaming for 24 bucks and then used some traded in games to bring down the price even further.

And that's sad about Doom 3, you could buy it before :/
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#139

Yeah no way I'm spending 30 on this. Waiting for sales...
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User is online   MetHy 

#140

so in conclusion : on pc the graphics don't look better, AND they fucked gameplay (easier + flashlight all the time). The only worthy thing are the new levels but everybody seems to be saying they're not very good.
Considering I sitll haven't beat the original games and the previous add ons; i'd only get this for the extra levels AFTER i beat everything else and if it's not more than 5-10 bucks
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#141

It does come with the No Rest for the Living episode for Doom 2 though, which I have been wanting to play for some time now.
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#142

https://twitter.com/...369191369502720
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User is online   MetHy 

#143

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 20 October 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

It does come with the No Rest for the Living episode for Doom 2 though, which I have been wanting to play for some time now.


Never heard of this episode, will check it out.
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User is offline   LkMax 

#144

I wish I could buy only the expansions for a cheaper price, I already have everything iD.

It's stupid they removed the option to buy standard Doom 3 alone. The same goes for Final Doom despite it's non inclusion on the BFG Edition. If you want any of those will have to buy the Full id Package now ($100) or go to their online store and pay twice the price it used to be on Steam ($20). Lame.

Now, about the original having few ammo: Am I missing something? No, really, did I played a different game back then? Is it my headshot love (both in Doom 3 and RTCW) and my "run close to the imp and shoot him with the shotgun" that guaranteed enough ammo for me, or there was enough ammo and people just have bad aim? =P

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

The game is easier. There are more health stations around (than I can remember) and of course the weapons are able to hold more ammunition. I just finished the main Campaign in 6 and a bit hours.

It could be worse: They could have implemented automatic health regeneration and removed health stations altogether. =P

View PostLunick, on 19 October 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I just don't think this should have been released to PC and stayed a console exclusive or something. But then I suppose everyone would have complained anyway.

Better yet, they should've put a little more effort into the PC version instead of straight porting it, but aparently the PC market is not nearly as important as consoles.

View Postt800, on 19 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

(...)cancelled flashlight(...)

Isn't that optional? (for the few who actually liked to change between the flashlight and the gun - I didn't)
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User is offline   Kathy 

#145

View PostKristian Joensen, on 20 October 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:


I'll hang it here. Brian Harris: "Unfortunately, some secret levels had to be modified to comply with laws in other countries".

View PostLkMax, on 20 October 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

It's stupid they removed the option to buy standard Doom 3 alone.

Apparently, from Europe you can buy it just fine.

This post has been edited by Burnett: 20 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

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#146

Well that is not the case here, so not all of Europe can buy it in any case.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#147

Perhaps all of Europe eventually will follow the suit since Doom 3 BFG was released a bit later.

This post has been edited by Burnett: 20 October 2012 - 09:42 AM

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User is offline   Martin 

#148

Digital Foundry Doom 3 BFG Face-Off (PS3 v 360 v PC)

The most important points they make;

- Both console versions are 720p with no AA at all, and use the Rage system of resolution scaling and framebuffer flipping (tearing) to maintain 60fps.
- 360 version of Doom 3 is better than PS3, the latter tears more and doesn't hold the 60fps target as well as 360.
- PS3 versions of Doom & Doom II are better than the 360 offerings. Less judder and rumble support. Apparently the PS3 versions benefited from being made by id themselves.
- Ironically, while the PC version is of course the best, in their words "It's a strange state of affairs where the version that is demonstrably the best of the three is also the most difficult to recommend, but that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in with Doom 3: BFG Edition". This is because the BFG edition doesn't match up to the PC original with its 8 years worth of community mods. Ergo, this is far more worthwhile for console users.

I've decided that I'm still going to get this on PS3 because; I prefer the DualShock 3 over the 360 controller for shooters, I don't have Doom & Doom II on PlayStation (I do have them on 360), and most-importantly, if I wish to use any of the online features I have to get the PS3 version since I don't have XBL Gold (and refuse to get it). I also technically already have Doom 3 on 360, since the original Xbox port plays on 360 (I have completed it on the console without any issue). It'll be interesting to compare the two just to see how much they downgraded it for Xbox 1. I can have both Doom 3 lite and BFG running at the same time, in the same area, and flick channels to see the difference! :)

View PostBurnett, on 20 October 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

I'll hang it here. Brian Harris: "Unfortunately, some secret levels had to be modified to comply with laws in other countries".


That is unfortunate, since in the old days Germany generally just got the sanitised versions of things all to themselves. In fact, you don't have to go back that far. In fact, 2009's Wolfenstein did just this. Nazis and swastikas for all except Germany. Are the 360 Doom 2 secret levels censored? I ask because those where not made by id. They're just the XBLA versions that have been available for a long time. Be interesting to find out.
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User is offline   thatguy 

#149

I thought the game was $29.99 on steam? *facepalm*

EDIT: Confirmed. Its 29.99 not 39.99.

This post has been edited by s.b.Newsom: 20 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#150

View PostMartin, on 20 October 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

- Ironically, while the PC version is of course the best, in their words "It's a strange state of affairs where the version that is demonstrably the best of the three is also the most difficult to recommend, but that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in with Doom 3: BFG Edition". This is because the BFG edition doesn't match up to the PC original with its 8 years worth of community mods.

As I understand it doesn't even match up to a vanilla let alone a modded one.

Quote

Are the 360 Doom 2 secret levels censored? I ask because those where not made by id. They're just the XBLA versions that have been available for a long time. Be interesting to find out.

If it's the same XBLA version then Wolf3d level should be intact. (except for the red cross)
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