[Striker]

Kristian Joensen, on 18 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I just don't get how I can complete the entirity of DNF, the entirty of Bioshock Infinite(what a great game) and the entirty of Quake 1 but I can't complete E1L2, how can it be harder for me than entire games?

How the? Do you have a dismembered index finger, and a paralyzed left side from a stroke? I know E1L2 like the back of my hand. Secrets and all. Got it first try, on come get some, pistol start, back when I was 11 years old. No cheating. Classic Keyboard Controls. It's just as easy as E1L1 if you can deal with the pig-cops.

Make use of the secrets in E1L1 to build up your arsenal, getting things like the RPG, Shotgun, and Ripper. Also, get the portable medkit and make use of it. The portable medkit is a godsend, and you'll need it if you take damage. E1L2 is pretty generous as far as health is concerned. Plenty of medkits around, and if you run out of them, you have the toilets and urinals. (Pissing usually heals a fair amount of health, and if you can't piss, you can break the toilets and urinals and drink from the water supply pipe.)

The sewer cap in behind the demolished building wall can be blown off with the RPG or pipe-bombs, there's some useful things in there too such as a Jetpack and more Pipebombs.

The blue key is behind the combination door and up the elevator inside of the Adult Movie store at the beginning. The yellow key is behind the building you destroy by using the blue key. The red key is in the bar where the prostitute is standing. Just open up the cupboard in that area.

[Player Lin]

I don't care whatever reasons needed to use the checkpoint system... I hate the whole shit at all, it always saved my damned game at whatever positions which I don't needed and feel frustrating(sometimes I want to quit the game if I died and last save point just about 5+ minutes ago or before long cutscene)...

In Serious Sam 3, I decided call that stupid (auto-saving) checkpoints go the Mental's hell when they tied it with bonus and in later levels, it just made more frustrations than I thought, I just can't bear them so I just disable the autosave, and save my damn game manually whenever I like, it made I feel so better than it was.

Seriously, called RotT but use checkpoint system only?

[Micky C]

I think we're owed some kind of explanation by the developers. It's funny how they're only around when ROTT's being praised...

Given all the things they have time for like that classic editor thing, there must be some way to incorporate manual saves into the game. There are people out there who don't care about scores and that stuff and just want to enjoy FPS games without their freedom removed.

[OpenMaw]

Micky C, on 19 July 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I think we're owed some kind of explanation by the developers. It's funny how they're only around when ROTT's being praised...

Given all the things they have time for like that classic editor thing, there must be some way to incorporate manual saves into the game. There are people out there who don't care about scores and that stuff and just want to enjoy FPS games without their freedom removed.

There's no reason from a technical standpoint...

I sent a message to Terry about this on FB, and I hope maybe they'll be willing to change this before release.

[Kathy]

Really strange decision and the silence that followed. If you made a checkpoint system despite the old school vibe you were generating then stand your ground to explain the reasoning behind this. Or are they waiting it to bite them big time in the ass once the game proves to be mediocre?

And I've already got sick from all the enthusiasm. I find it rather strange that all you need is to market the game as anti-modern to generate that kind of praise before release. The [hate mode] forum had for Interceptor was at least amusing.

Having that said, the game actually might be fun for all the good reasons. I'm not preordering shit, though, since I can buy and download it anytime later.

[DaveyDoomsday]

WOAH WOAH WOAH

What is all this about the checkpoint system? It's not your typical UE3 checkpoint system like Bioshock: Infinite where if you die you lose tons of progress. That would suck. There's enough checkpoints in each level that no matter where you die you'll never lose more than a minute or so of progress. We made sure of that. Also, you can play from any checkpoint at any time with any character and it will start you with the same weapons that you had. So it's practically saving. In fact it's as close as we could get to save states without having actual save states, which is simply not something we could accomplish with our limited resources and budget. If you want to get technical about it, I'd let Fred explain that, but this Escapist article sums up pretty well why it's so hard to have save states in modern games unless you have a giant budget like Skyrim:

http://www.escapistm...heckpoint-Saves <-- Seriously, read this.

Personally, I was against the checkpoint idea at first, I hated the thought of it, but given our limited options and after seeing how we implemented it and how it works with our style of gameplay, I think it actually makes more sense than having manual saves. Especially given the arcadey, high scoring style of ROTT. And I stand by the system knowing that it works well and that it was a serious pain in the ass for the guys to have in place. You know Frederik is as old school as it gets, so if we were going to be forced to use a checkpoint system, you know he'd make sure we did it right. Trust in the hair, people.

Meanwhile, if that's the only thing you guys are unhappy with so far in regards to ROTT, then I can deal with that.

Also, our checkpoints have funny names... I wrote them myself... SO LOVE THEM.

[Lunick]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Also, our checkpoints have funny names... I wrote them myself... SO LOVE THEM.

Please tell me they are not as bad as the Multiplayer level names...

[DaveyDoomsday]

Lunick, on 19 July 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Please tell me they are not as bad as the Multiplayer level names...

We have one checkpoint named 'Harrison Fjord'. Yeah. Oh, and if you're referring to 'Drop the Base' - I love that level

However most of our checkpoints are named after Classic ROTT '95 levels so it's a nice homage.

Our secret levels are named after Kurt Russell movies... that was Leon's idea.

[Lunick]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

We have one checkpoint named 'Harrison Fjord'. Yeah. Oh, and if you're referring to 'Drop the Base' - I love that level

Yes, that was the level I was thinking of so I guess you know that it is bad

[DaveyDoomsday]

Lunick, on 19 July 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Yes, that was the level I was thinking of so I guess you know that it is bad

When I first saw the name...

http://images5.fanpo...677_469_650.jpg

[Hank]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

http://www.escapistm...heckpoint-Saves <-- Seriously, read this.

I did. Considering the debugging for on demand saves and the high risk to fail; it's easier to take complains from fans now to have check points rather then later, when mystery bugs show up, and the player may not even be able to continue where he left off, and really starts complaining?

Also, Harrison Fjord or Harrison Fnord ?

[MusicallyInspired]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

There's enough checkpoints in each level that no matter where you die you'll never lose more than a minute or so of progress. We made sure of that. Also, you can play from any checkpoint at any time with any character and it will start you with the same weapons that you had. So it's practically saving.

Except you don't need make yourself stop and do it yourself, which makes the game too easy. You can never really fail. That's one of the modern game mechanics that I despise the most. It's hand-holding.

That's too bad...:/

[Micky C]

Well, I'm not entirely sold, and I'd still prefer manual saves. But at least you're being kinda honest about it. If the checkpoints really are every minute or so, and you can reload from any previous checkpoint then it's not too bad, but of course we'll have to play the game to find out.

If it's a matter of time and resources then it'd be fantastic if it was implemented as a later patch or something.

[Kathy]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

it's so hard to have save states in modern games unless you have a giant budget like Skyrim:

Let's not exaggerate.

[Player Lin]

DaveyDoomsday, on 19 July 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

There's enough checkpoints in each level that no matter where you die you'll never lose more than a minute or so of progress. We made sure of that. Also, you can play from any checkpoint at any time with any character and it will start you with the same weapons that you had. So it's practically saving.

Croteam isn't a company had many budgets, is it?...

Sounds fair. But they're still checkpoints, right? And I failed to see any points that can't do a whole save-state if can doing a lot of checkpoints...

It's not really old-school enough for me...at least compare with RotT classic.

[DaveyDoomsday]

MusicallyInspired, on 19 July 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Except you don't need make yourself stop and do it yourself, which makes the game too easy. You can never really fail. That's one of the modern game mechanics that I despise the most. It's hand-holding.

That's too bad...:/

It's actually the opposite of hand-holding since you can't "save scum" and save or load right before or after you get through a hard part of a level. This is especially true in levels like "The Room" wherein each puzzle room is essentially its own level that we want you to complete in one run. Herein lies the challenge. Especially if you're going for Scott's Mystical Head. If you could save and load after every trap or jump you got past, you'd be practically cheating or holding your own hand! And since you can actually cheat in the game, at that point you might as well /fly and bypass the traps altogether

Even if you completely despise checkpoints in games, know that in ROTT '13 they totally work. And I'm obviously going to say 'wait until you play it!' to decide for yourself. Even then, if you completely hate it, then that's your opinion and I'm cool with that. This is America, you can hate our game all you want, but I don't think you will. Trust me when I say the system is pretty sound. Nobody who has played the game so far has complained in the slightest. This includes old-school gamers and new school gamers alike.

And Kathy, perhaps Skyrim was a bit of an exaggeration but it's a prime example of a modern game with enormous levels that save EVERYTHING. And god knows how buggy that gets. But please remember, we are a small team with a small (nearly non-existent) budget. So what's possible even for developers like Croteam, simply isn't possible for us. Frederik has done an exceptional job with the resources we have and I stand by his decisions and am proud to represent them for better or worse.

FNORD!

[Mr.Deviance]

DaveyDoomsday, on 20 July 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

This is America, you can hate our game all you want, but I don't think you will

How do you come up with such corny ass lines is what I am wondering.
It's already clear to me that as the pr of this project, it's your job to say anything and everything to get the game sold but that line right there just made me face palm...
The cringe factor on that sentence is the sole reason I would fire you if you were my pr guy.
Good luck...

[Radar]

Go screw yourself. Dave's doing a great job. He acts like he's one us, except with some inside information. If you don't like how he's handling it, then maybe they could just get a PR guy that spends zero time on forums and leaves us in the dark like every other game studio.

[Engel220]

Ms. Radar, on 20 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Go screw yourself. Dave's doing a great job. He acts like he's one us, except with some inside information. If you don't like how he's handling it, then maybe they could just get a PR guy that spends zero time on forums and leaves us in the dark like every other game studio.

Well said. Realistically, how often do you see game development staff actively hanging around on forums that aren't directly related to their products or company? Not very many. The fact that the head of Interceptor hangs out here is impressive, usually key development team figures hand all this stuff over to those lower on the food chain (e.g. Gearbox's Adam F and Chris F, aka the Sentinels), and anyone else from Interceptor being here is a great bonus (Dave, for one). They're not obligated to be here, they could just stick to their site and promote through the usual media, but instead they come to where the Duke/RoTT fans are and address fans questions and concerns directly.

Frankly, a lot of companies could take lessons from them in developer/player relations.

[MusicallyInspired]

DaveyDoomsday, on 20 July 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's actually the opposite of hand-holding since you can't "save scum" and save or load right before or after you get through a hard part of a level. This is especially true in levels like "The Room" wherein each puzzle room is essentially its own level that we want you to complete in one run. Herein lies the challenge. Especially if you're going for Scott's Mystical Head. If you could save and load after every trap or jump you got past, you'd be practically cheating or holding your own hand! And since you can actually cheat in the game, at that point you might as well /fly and bypass the traps altogether

Except that with manual saves it's on you if you forget to save. In this scenario you never have to worry about it because it always saves for you. It's not the player's responsibility anymore. One less thing he has to worry about thinking to do. I consider that part of the playing experience, not a detractor of the experience. So I submit that autosaves/checkpoints are more hand-holding than manual saves. I'm much more about holding your own hand anyway than something watching your back. I'm just against immunity to failure of any kind. That's the core of the oldschool experience. Not just manual saves, but a possibility for complete failure. Nobody likes dying anymore and starting over. To that I say, well, you should have saved. I consider that part of the game. Another obstacle to overcome as a player.

All things considered I can understand if it's not possible for you guys to implement, although I find that strange and somewhat suspicious. I get the feeling you're exaggerating the difficulty in adding it. Maybe it is a lot of work but at the worst it'd be time-consuming not difficult. Then again maybe you're not exaggerating. Either way I understand, really. But I am disappointed. I've never heard of implementing manual saves as being a difficult thing to do for a developer. Ever. Not that I don't believe you, the whole thing is just strange seeing as it's never seemed to be an issue to anybody before...at least publicly. But it is a huge detractor for me.

Also, I never said I hated the game. Please don't assume such things. I believe all I said was "That's too bad...:/". What I am is very disappointed. Disappointed that we aren't going to be allowed to play the game the way we choose to play it, with decisions like checkpoints every other minute being made for us. You can say it steps on how you want the game presented. I say letting the gamers choose how they want to play your game is the better way to go. Anyway. I'm just ranting. This is all moot because it's apparently not possible either way.

[Kathy]

These forums surely aren't 'America'.

Btw, will there be a demo or something?

[Mr.Deviance]

Ms. Radar, on 20 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Go screw yourself. Dave's doing a great job. He acts like he's one us, except with some inside information. If you don't like how he's handling it, then maybe they could just get a PR guy that spends zero time on forums and leaves us in the dark like every other game studio.

I rather go and screw myself than be grateful because the pr guy of a company owned by fresch is ACTING like one of us around here.
Maybe he's acting like you if you feel this so much but he could definitely never be able to act like me, that's for sure.
It's very hard to act like me when your job requires you to be a professional bullshitter.
In case it's not already clear, I have no sort of respect or sympathy for the PR profession, simply because I know that to get the job you have to be able to take a piece of shit and wrap it in a nice shiny cover with a red bow tied to it and then attempt to sell it as something very valuable. I have 0 respect for people that make a living out of selling lies and false hype.
The pr guy in my mind, is the one guy that sells false hopes and dreams just like politicians do.
The biggest pr guy that I've seen until now that's related to this community, is that regurgitated putrid scumbag of a magician that owns Gearbox.



I am not saying this game is a piece of shit, I am just saying I don't like bullshit when I see it and PR people are the fist people to find it at.

[DaveyDoomsday]

Mr.Deviance, on 20 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I rather go and screw myself than be grateful because the pr guy of a company owned by fresch is ACTING like one of us around here.
Maybe he's acting like you if you feel this so much but he could definitely never be able to act like me, that's for sure.
It's very hard to act like me when your job requires you to be a professional bullshitter.
In case it's not already clear, I have no sort of respect or sympathy for the PR profession, simply because I know that to get the job you have to be able to take a piece of shit and wrap it in a nice shiny cover with a red bow tied to it and then attempt to sell it as something very valuable. I have 0 respect for people that make a living out of selling lies and false hype.
The pr guy in my mind, is the one guy that sells false hopes and dreams just like politicians do.
The biggest pr guy that I've seen until now that's related to this community, is that regurgitated putrid scumbag of a magician that owns Gearbox.



I am not saying this game is a piece of shit, I am just saying I don't like bullshit when I see it and PR people are the fist people to find it at.

Wow, as someone who has built a reputation on being one of the the most, if not THE MOST transparent motherfucker in video game marketing and PR, it upsets me that you think I've ever tried to sell any of you guys bullshit. If you think I'm acting then I must be one hell of an actor. Look back at this forum, at every forum, every thread, every interview, every facebook, twitter, and youtube comment about ROTT that I answer with a 100% no bullshit attitude. Seriously. If I'm 'acting' then GIVE ME MY GOD DAMNED OSCAR RIGHT NOW!

But seriously, even if you hate marketing/pr people, then disregard everything I've said and just let the game speak for itself.

[DaveyDoomsday]

Kathy, on 20 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

These forums surely aren't 'America'.

Btw, will there be a demo or something?

"I'M SORRY, I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA." Maybe I should have said Denmark? :-p

Yeah, we're looking to do a full on shareware episode post release. But it's all up to Fred and the guys as to when/how. The general consensus is that we'll base it off the original Hunt Begins episode, since that seems like a pretty cool idea.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Dave's not just a "PR" guy. He put his own money into funding development. I don't think that happens at other developers/publishers.

[----]

Player Lin, on 20 July 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

And I failed to see any points that can't do a whole save-state if can doing a lot of checkpoints...

So, saving the navigation node of the player plus a few vars for weapons doesn't sound easier to do than all properties of all objects in game, from enemies to flying bullets in an engine that can stream levels and which you can map in different editor instances that later can be overlayed ingame, etc...?

If you fail to see that I wonder what you see if you encounter a not completely obvious fact?

[DaveyDoomsday]

Mr. Tibbs, on 20 July 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Dave's not just a "PR" guy. He put his own money into funding development. I don't think that happens at other developers/publishers.

It's not just me. We all put our own money into this project. We're all pretty much in debt at this point. I sold my car, I'm selling my house, you guys know Fred has dumped everything he has into it as well. We're all in on this thing. Every one of us. It's scary, but you can't go half way when you've only got one shot imo. That's why I find it funny when people talk about us like we're any other game developer. You know, the ones with a budget. Or that we can be hired or fired AS IF WE GET PAID FOR THIS.

Then again, it's flattering in a way that people talk about a small, self funded independent virtual studio like we're an established developer with offices and a payroll and criticize us in the same way. I guess that means we're doing a pretty good job so far.

[Bloodshot]

As long as there is a lot it should be perfectly fine.

The only time checkpoints bother me is when they are too far apart, or when open-ended games use them.

Imagine how discouraged the player would be in a game like Crysis 1 from experimenting with everything they possibly can in the environment as weapons knowing they'd have to restart at an older checkpoint every time they messed something up. I sort of had this problem with Far Cry 3 because the saving system was wonky as hell and was more like a respawning system then anything.

But for a game like this it makes sense, especially with things like traps you have to go through - of course either way it wouldn't effect the challenge for me probably, because I have a habit of saving with restraint, never saving during encounters or in the middle of something going on anyway.

[K100]

Mr Deviance, you should read this article from last year on Dave's blog:

http://bloggalog.com...he-thick-of-it/

Really interesting article about his involvement on ROTT.

[----]

DaveyDoomsday, on 20 July 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Then again, it's flattering in a way that people talk about a small, self funded independent virtual studio like we're an established developer with offices and a payroll and criticize us in the same way. I guess that means we're doing a pretty good job so far.

You know, Mr. Deviance often tries to come across as if he has deep insight into stuff and has a well funded opinion when the opposite is often the truth. The foundation of his building has more termites in it than one can see at first glance.