[Mr. Tibbs]

Micky C, on 14 July 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Didn't you know that? It's the same deal for all games.

Crap. No, I had no idea. Is it because it's part of a pack? I've bought games I already own on Steam before as gifts for friends and haven't had this problem.

[Micky C]

I believe the reason is that you can't buy 4 packs for games you already own, because otherwise some people might buy lots of 4 packs (i.e, buy several copies of the game cheap) and sell them to people.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Makes sense. Ah, well. My bad. I can't believe I missed that.

[Steveeeie]

Have per-ordered this for myself and some friends. has shaped up nicely, only game I am looking forward to at the moment!

[Fox Mulder]

Pre-ordering DONE.


Let's play The Apogee Throwback Pack!

[ReaperMan]

I still need to pre-order....

[Micky C]

I bought a few FPS games on steam recently, and to my dismay all of them used the checkpoint saving system. Is it really that mainstream now? I mean is it so hard to have 1 decent FPS that allows manual saves?

Manual saves have several subtle benefits, such as if you don't like the way you've progressed through the level, you can load a much earlier save point. Or maybe you'd want to save the game at a really cool point to either play over later, or show your friends without any hassle.
But what I find frustrating about the checkpoint save system, is that if you want to leave the game to go have dinner or whatever, you either need to push forward and spend time getting to the next checkpoint, or you just quit the game and lose your progress!

I do get that checkpoints are meant to add a little bit of challenge (you'd have more motivation to try harder if you know you'll be set back when dying), but although checkpoints aren't completely ruining my experience of these otherwise fine games, they're definitely tainting it.

I hope Interceptor reverse their decision or add the option for multiple manual saves after the release. And don't try to blame it on the publisher when you can't!

[Night Wolf]

Checkpoints really?
An old school style shooter without manual saves is just ludicrous

[Kathy]

Besides, why not have both saving systems?

[Radar]

Micky C, on 18 July 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I hope Interceptor reverse their decision or add the option for multiple manual saves after the release. And don't try to blame it on the publisher when you can't!

ROFLOL

[Kristian Joensen]

I won't lie, I am not at all a fan of checkpoint save systems. It means you can't quit playing just any time. DNF took me much much longer to play through due to my inability to save at any time. In a game with only checkpoints you have to play until the next checkpoint which you have no idea when it will be. Quitting in between checkpoints leads to lost progress and having to repeat areas(in DNF's case many many times due to dying in between checkpoints). For me as someone who really really really sucks, checkpoint systems are an added obstacle to getting through a game.

That being said it won't stop me from getting ROTT 2013 and I certainly expect to enjoy it a lot. But the checkpoint system will almost certainly lessen my enjoyment. That is unless they have checkpoints literally every 3 - 5 minutes. Even then with a checkpoint system you usually only have the equivalent of one save slot. So if you are low on health and/or ammo when reaching a checkpoint it can but you in a really bad spot.

I have only ever completed 3 FPS games without cheating: DNF(but not the SP DLC), Bioshock Infinite and Quake 1. After all these years of trying I have yet to complete Duke3D's E1L2, Red Light District without cheating. Currently I am playing Shadow Warrior Classic Redux on Steam and I have completed the first 7 levels of the game so far. But I am saving literally all the time. From once every 5 minutes or so all the way up to several times/minute. Although I am dying a lot less in Shadow Warrior than I did in DNF.

[NY00123]

Guesses for possible reasons for *not* letting one save anywhere:
- I don't know if it's related, but on a PC/Mac with a full/medium sized keyboard it's common to have a couple of keys for quick saving and loading, which may be a good reason for letting one save anywhere. So it's possible that it seems to make less sense on platforms with no more than a few game controllers (e.g. consoles). I have some doubts about this, though.
- It may complicate the coding; It's impossible to make assumptions that fail in case in-level saving is supported. Furthermore, when a game is patched, existing saved games may become useless. Finally (not sure about this) if checkpoints are all that you have then they take less space on the disk?

One game that takes a hybrid approach (well, at least the PC release) is Serious Sam 3: BFE. You can save anywhere, but it encourages the player to take advantage of no more than the automatic saves (i.e. checkpoints).

[Kathy]

Kristian Joensen, on 18 July 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

After all these years of trying I have yet to complete Duke3D's E1L2, Red Light District without cheating.

Even on Piece Of Cake?!

[Kristian Joensen]

Kathy, on 18 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Even on Piece Of Cake?!

Yes indeed! I told you I suck!

[Radar]

After 17 years you should be able to complete the whole game on CGS in a half hour.

[Kathy]

I fairly certain most people here can complete E1L1 blindfolded.

....okay, maybe not. I tried and couldn't.

How the hell did you complete other levels in the first episode, Kristian? Cause first two are fairly simple in comparison. Or you didn't?

[Kristian Joensen]

Kathy, on 18 July 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I fairly certain most people here can complete E1L1 blindfolded.

....okay, maybe not. I tried and couldn't.

How the hell did you complete other levels in the first episode, Kristian? Cause first two are fairly simple in comparison. Or you didn't?

I have never gotten past E1L2 without cheating. E1L1 I have completed many many countless times. It is has been so long I have tried playing Duke3D in anything but a straight linear level after level fashion that I honestly don't remember if I have completed other levels without cheating. But I can only conclude for me that E1L2 is much harder than all of DNF, all of Bioshock Infinite and all of Quake 1. I think it took me around the 5 - 10 hour mark to complete Quake 1, around the 12 - 15 hour mark to complete Bioshock Infinite and around the 30 - 40 hour mark to complete DNF. The first 7 levels of Shadow Warrior have also been a breeze compared to E1L2 of Duke3D.

I used to be a big cheater in games back from when I started gaming in the mid 90s until the early 2000s. I have never ever done it since.

[Radar]

LOL. I know how it's like being a cheater. Back when I was 9 dnkroz and dnstuff were typed in immediately when starting the game. I eventually let go of dnstuff realizing that getting the keys would ruin the level progression. I ditched cheats completely when I was 12 I think.

[MusicallyInspired]

I cheated through games all the time when I was a kid because I was incredibly insecure and not confident. However, once I got used to the game I'd play through it legit. FPS games don't scare me anymore like they used to. E1L2 is a breeze now. I fly through all the levels not giving any enemies time to even react to me. I've been playing on Let's Rock for too long and need to graduate to CGS. Not that I was scared, just out of habit because I'd just spam enter in the menu until the game started. I was obsessed with finishing the game in the fastest way possible.

I was also the king of keyboard control. Now that polymer is here I use the mouse, but 8-bit will always be keyboard d for me.

[Kristian Joensen]

I just don't get how I can complete the entirity of DNF, the entirty of Bioshock Infinite(what a great game) and the entirty of Quake 1 but I can't complete E1L2, how can it be harder for me than entire games?

[Kathy]

Where exactly are you having troubles? I'm baffled.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

And do you play the game with WSAD+mouselook? Or just the classic directional key setup?

[Jimmy]

[Kathy]

In E1L1 you can acquire lots of weapons and other stuff. Kristian, get your ass and beat that level. What the hell!

[Radar]

The 3 pig cops in the bar area, the 3 pig cops right before the red key card slot, and the whole strip club filled with pig cops was always really hard when I was a kid. Now I've learned just to throw pipe bombs in those areas.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've always had an rpg by that point and dispensed with the pig cops immediately. Or the pipe bombs if I ran out of rockets.

[Mr. Tibbs]

ROTT/Intereceptor made the news in Denmark. They're planning to open an office in the near future. Congrats guys!

[Micky C]

Not to mention that checkpoint saves make cheap deaths all the more frustrating.

[Malgon]

Sweet, just bought this on GOG!

[X-Vector]

Two things:

1. Not having a manual save system in a nineties style retro FPS is absolutely ludicrous.
Dark Forces was already criticised for using lives rather than saves back in 1995.

2. How can anyone get through Quake and Shadow Warrior, but not Red Light District?
Only boss encounters and a swarm of those pesky drones should give you any trouble in Duke3D.