[Gambini]

Merlijn, on 06 March 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I guess they did that to prevent the player from using a shortcut, it didn't bother me since it's a good reason.
As for the invisible walls in my map: on one side of the road there's a big fire truck blocking the road, on the other side there's a huge fence.. How can I indicate an invisible barrier more clearly then that lol.

BTW nice review Gambini! Although you also misspelled my name.. twice in a row (are you guys doing this on purpose? ) Also, I'm curious which part of my map reminded you of OGBB/Roch Island.

Three times actually

Quote

...Merlin...Merjin...Melrin...

I´m glad you noticed

About the resemblances with those maps and unless my memory is fucked up: The bar shared a similar style with the one on OGBB (although i think that one was made by WG?) and I don´t really know why it made me think of Roch Island. Maybe the green screen with the blinking eye´s girl and the high windows set on fire, that mix of colors... maybe

[Blue Lightning]

MetHy, on 06 March 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Okay I COMPLETELY disagree with this. Maybe you're suicidal enough to jump down that rooftop, but Duke isn't.
Not to mention that why would anybody (either Duke or you) went to jump down the previous map of the game!

Why not? With Duke 3D any place you can see, you should be able to reach as long as it is physicaly possible. That is part of what makes the game so great..It's "anything goes" attitude...the ability to go where your not supposed to go! Start putting up invisible walls, and now a player thinks "hmm, I see a ledge over there I should be able to get to if I use my roids...but mabye I wasnt intended to make the jump and mabye there is a invisible wall that will stop me". This is is not good for immersion.

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Adding fences would not solve the problem. If you extrapolate a little, why couldn't Duke climb the fences and jump down?

Huh? There are tall fences that can contain Duke as you already know, since you use many of those fences on your maps. I would rather see a large fence then nothingness.

And btw, this isnt nit-picking. If there was one or two invisible walls in a 15 map episode, THAT would be nit-picking.

[Jimmy]

Oh, good grief.

[Mike Norvak]

I was enjoying the episode a lot until I had a crash at the end of Meatball Sub makin', I don't know what caused the crash, but I don't think it has something to do with the mod or the map itself, anyway I have to say this is one of the most impressive episodes I've ever played, not because epicness or grandness but it's simplicity, it feels ridiculously classic! maybe I'm just echoing what has alredy been said, but for moments I had the impression of playing a lost episode from the original game, which is really cool. I'm eager to finish this episode!

BTW That's a nice review Gambini, have you though of making your own reviewing site? Oh, Maybe you could review: Suburban Hive and Suburban Hive II for CGS?

[Gambini]

I signed a contract with Mikko Sandt, can´t do reviews for other sites until 2018

Quote

have you though of making your own reviewing site?

I have thought about that way before my english reached some decent level. I´ll probably never do it, but the idea would be giving fair* ratings.

*With fair i mean instead of rating everything between 75% and 99%, it would be more like 0% and 99%.

------

Didn´t have any crashes here, and to my understanding the only thing that con file does is setting the episode´s order and names.

[Mike Norvak]

I posted the crashlog at Polymer and EDuke32 thread

[MetHy]

Blue Lightning, on 06 March 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

Why not? With Duke 3D any place you can see, you should be able to reach as long as it is physicaly possible. That is part of what makes the game so great..It's "anything goes" attitude...the ability to go where your not supposed to go! Start putting up invisible walls, and now a player thinks "hmm, I see a ledge over there I should be able to get to if I use my roids...but mabye I wasnt intended to make the jump and mabye there is a invisible wall that will stop me". This is is not good for immersion.


Huh? There are tall fences that can contain Duke as you already know, since you use many of those fences on your maps. I would rather see a large fence then nothingness.

And btw, this isnt nit-picking. If there was one or two invisible walls in a 15 map episode, THAT would be nit-picking.

Well I think unreachable places are better for immersion than giant walls or whatever, even if they imply invisible walls to some extent.

Quote

Yes, if you can move the ledge far enough away from the roof with the keycard so that the player can't reach it by jumping. Although the player might have steroids and be able to do a huge strafe jump, so I don't know how good that solution is.

Nah, the idea is to change the order in which the player has to go through buildings so that the building with the invisible walls comes second. Like this I can get rid of the invisible walls.


I just did that, took me 5 mins, and imo it makes the map a lot better :

DOWNLOAD LINK :
http://forums.duke4....&attach_id=4630

Now instead of a path : start ->destroyed building -> big white building linked to a cave -> small white building in the middle of the map -> end
the path is : start -> destroyed building -> small white building in the middle of the map -> big white building linked to a cave -> end

This allowed me to get rid of the invisible walls.
(I also had to change a couple of minor things to make this change right. )

This improves the flow on the map on several levels : after the destroyed building, the next step is the building in the middle that used to have insivible walls. Now you can either get there by jumping from the destroyed building onto the rooftop, or go through it underwater. This actually makes the red keycard non mandatory to use since you can also exit the building by jumping off the rooftop, but this is not a problem since you get that key just before you're able to jump there.

Also it improvesthe end: to go back to the start of the level where the exit is, if you want you can choose to jump from the big white building, onto the building in the middle, and then jump into the next path that just opened to reach the exit. Jumping from rooftop to rooftop to rooftop is now possible at the end.

Gameplay is also slightly better. It makes more sense to acces the big white building and the cave last since they have the most enemies. I did not even have to change a single enemy placement or respawn.

Enjoy and tell if you think it really is a better version. Imo it is, no more invisible walls, better flow, slightly better gameplay.

Edit : we don't have swap this new version into the grp of the episode, consider this a bonus for the people on the forum who gave constructive criticism. Though if you want to make the change Mikko, go ahead.

[Danukem]

Grrrrr...had to type shit proving I'm not a bot and then wait 30 seconds just to download that. Try attaching a zip next time please.

[MetHy]

I did, but it wouldn't allow me.

[Danukem]

MetHy, on 07 March 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

I did, but it wouldn't allow me.

I'll do it then.

Attached File(s)

•  E5L7.zip (39.57K)
  Number of downloads: 316

[LeoD]

Finished the episode. Had a lot of fun. Thank you guys!

[Blue Lightning]

Oh man, just played the "redone" map 7, and it is now my favorite map of the entire map pack! The map reeks of "Flood Zone" and feels like I'm playing DN3D again, in '97. The routing is excellent in my opinion. You can skip to the red card fast IF your jumping skills are good (thus skipping the crack in the wall part underwater), and of course you can now choose to jump on top of the roof where the yellow used to be instead of going up to it from the bottom. Even some of the waterfall caves are optional.

All these options = f u n.

And there are several enviroment change-up's, even near the end. Good stuff.

[rasmus thorup]

That is my favorite map as well, it feels very complete.

[Micky C]

This was at the end of today's news item:

Quote

In the mean time, we'd like to start posting more Duke Nukem 3D map updates to keep the website updated more frequently.

I hope a news item for this episode is still in the works, otherwise I'd have to write one myself, and it probably won't be all that in-depth as I've started replaying it vanilla style so I still haven't finished it.


Edit: screw it, I'll write one anyway. If another item for this has already been submitted the administrators can just ignore mine.


2nd Edit: done, I hope the authors like it.

[Blue Lightning]

Im frustrated. On map 8, I cannot figure out how to get the red key card. No way into that room with the broken door. I even no-clipped and went in the room, hoping to find a clue of how to enter it...but no dice.

I tried everything, I even "got all weapons" and shrank myself, and jetpacked it up there, but even a shrunken Duke...still no dice.

The only way I can see is to no-clip your way into the room, grab the card and then no-clip your way back out. Am I missing something?

[Gambini]

Is that map Meatbal´ submakin? If so i remember benig confused there too. You have to go back and press some button that is only visible from the gap of a half open door IIRC. Just in case I also had problems finding a "subway station" where the subway doesn´t stop. Maybe the card you´re looking for is there?

[Danukem]

Gambini, on 14 March 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Is that map Meatbal´ submakin? If so i remember benig confused there too. You have to go back and press some button that is only visible from the gap of a half open door IIRC. Just in case I also had problems finding a "subway station" where the subway doesn´t stop. Maybe the card you´re looking for is there?

Yes, you have to shoot the button through the opening in the door. I also had trouble with that the first time I played the map. Even though the button is large, I didn't see it for some reason.

[MetHy]

The button is downstairs.

I also had trouble with it the first time I played the usermap AND when I replayed it when playing the episode (I didn't remember it). It's confusing because there is an opening above the door that the button unlocks, so I assumed we had to throw pipebombs through that.

[Blue Lightning]

MetHy, on 14 March 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

The button is downstairs.

I also had trouble with it the first time I played the usermap AND when I replayed it when playing the episode (I didn't remember it). It's confusing because there is an opening above the door that the button unlocks, so I assumed we had to throw pipebombs through that.

Yeah, I see the button now...dont know how I missed it? The author left the double doors open a crack as a hint...and so you can see and shoot the button.


Thanks everyone

[Micky C]

What's the deal with the news article for this thing? I submitted an item two articles ago and it's still not up.

[Mikko]

Btw, I ninja-edited a few days ago the file posted at MSDN (http://msdn.duke4.net/metropolitan.zip) to include the improved version of E5L7. That's probably as far as we're gonna go with updating this thing.

[Blue Lightning]

I've been trying to defeat map E5L8 on DIG for a week now, and I'm still at it. I lose about 5 times daily!
It's the biggest challenge I have had to date from any map.

E5L8 is one of the best designed cityscapes I have ever played. (march 19)


EDIT: (march 25, 6 days later...) - I finally beat E5L8 on DIG! Woo hoo! Beautiful design, how the city is divided into 3 parts, seperated by sandbags...a jetpack in the beginning would get you over the rooftops to the other two parts...but you dont get a jetpack till the end! So you have to get to them via subway (hence Meatball SUB makin?) There are few areas where you can get over sandbags to the next part (or back) if your jumping skills are good enough to jump on jetpacked Liz troopers heads, but it is not advisable lol. Too many big monsters (battlelords) awaiting to do that, better to use the subway and collect some weaponary and health.

Ambience (windnoise) is ever present adding to atmosphere in this map (and all the maps in the series). Nice shadowing too. And great touch allowing us to access some rooftops on map 8.

Overall good series, espicially a few maps inparticular. My favorites are level 2, 7, and 8. Really Mikko, ck3D (edited) and anyone else, you outdid yourselfs in my opinion. Great work!

[ck3D]

stoked you enjoyed map 2 and 8, those were made by me ! thank you for your feedback

[Blue Lightning]

Ahh, so your the author of 2 and 8. Great work, no doubt about it!

Map 2 has a nice open feel to it, with a good look. The big screen on the building with the girl video, plus some various neon signs is nice eye candy. The map challenges, routing is very good...really I cant think of anything bad to say about it!

Map 8 is now my favorite city map, even beating out City of Sin!

[NNC]

Really nice episode, I've always preferred classic vanilla style gameplay... Just my map-by-map review:

1st: below average leveldesign and pedestrian gameplay (only 2 weapons and enemies), I have to say this level is the worst of this pack
2nd: bit better, but still average leveldesign (the oversized fem sprites are ugly), gameplay is a bit better than 1st
3rd: lovely design and texturing, but waaaay too short and linear... the masked wall with the unbreakable window texture is dull and detoured me for some time
4nd: more like the second map but better design... I've found the secret level area immediately. monster/weapon variety gets better
secret: awesome and quite original looking map, gameplay is somewhat hard, but that's not bad... I've spent some time finding out what to do with the jetpack
5th: yay, this one is cool (Sex city, IIRC the title). flawless gameplay, and very good layout. should work as a standalone release
6th: good leveldesign again, but short like the 3rd map.
7th: Flood Zone style, it's quite well made again, nice change in the gameplay. I used my earlier jetpack from the secret level to re-enter yellow keycard zone. does that jump actually work?
8th: I've definately played this one earlier, so it's not a new level. the lava ambience in the subway is awesome, and the whole level is awesome (great textures and colors), except for the ending with the 3 Battlelords. that's a miss.
9th: really difficult at times, but awesome again from leveldesign perspective. the battlelord after the yellow key was more than just unneccessary.
10th: well designed train map, but it's too linear and those sentry drones in cramped locations were uncalled. this map has a major bug as well, since I can't jump properly to the top, and the screen is flickering in that particular area. should be fixed somehow.
I've only played the rooftop boss level, which was very original and awesome. I died a couple of times but can't blame anyone but myself.

Overall, a good episode, leveldesign gets better with each level. the gameplay is standard mindless Duke Nukem, which is good, but sometimes I felt it's pedestrian... I would give this a 88%.

[Mike Norvak]

I think 88% is a bit unfair, with that same scale what score would you give to the original game?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Norvak, on 28 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I think 88% is a bit unfair, with that same scale what score would you give to the original game?

Agreed... I feel like he was rating the first few levels really low for being too much like the original levels, and the later levels really high for not being too much like the original levels.

[Danukem]

Norvak, on 28 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I think 88% is a bit unfair, with that same scale what score would you give to the original game?

I think it's completely fair, and I say that as someone who enjoyed this episode very much. If an episode in which most of the maps were completed in one day deserves > 88%, that doesn't leave enough room at the top for more ambitious projects.

[NNC]

Achenar, on 28 March 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Agreed... I feel like he was rating the first few levels really low for being too much like the original levels, and the later levels really high for not being too much like the original levels.

Wait what? Since when 88% is bad? In an MSDN score system it means "hot release". The first two levels are worse than the original levels though, especially the first map which seems mostly amateurish at times.

I would say levels 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and the boss level I played are the ones that match the original 3DR mapping style at best, except for the short length in some of them (especially level 3 and 6). Level 8, 9, 10 (despite the bug) and the secret level clearly surpasses original quality.

[Mikko]

I think 88 is the kind of a score one would arrive at if you were to rate the maps individually and then take the average. This is pretty obvious from you praising MRCK's maps relative to all the other levels that were intentionally shorter and less detailed. It actually seems that those who have rated (and I don't necessarily mean a numerical rating) the episode as an episode think otherwise. See, for example, Fakir's post on the subject, particularly his praise toward the first map that you seemed to dislike.

Nancsi, on 28 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

the masked wall with the unbreakable window texture is dull and detoured me for some time

Lol, while this is an irrelevant issue, I was actually thinking of this yesterday as I was fighting falling asleep during lecture. Somehow the solution of just adding a normal glass wall there escaped my mind when the map was being built.

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I used my earlier jetpack from the secret level to re-enter yellow keycard zone. does that jump actually work?

You mean the yellow lock zone? There's a ledge right next to it that you can use, accessible via the destroyed building.

Quote

and the screen is flickering in that particular area. should be fixed somehow.

Yes, but even Gambini couldn't fix it so it didn't seem possible at that point.