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[RELEASE] Metropolitan Mayhem - a 15-map episode!

#31

View PostHank, on 02 March 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

nah, just put all the files in your EDuke directory, and 'open' (not double click) the metropolitan.bat file

It's a no-go...I cant get it to run. I tried putting the files in my Duke3D folder and opening (not double clicking) the .bat file, but I get error message about the .CON is not supported, and then a message asking if I want to switch to "default" . I'm looking for a folder to drop it in.

I found the folder that contains all the levels (e2L1, e2L3. etc-), but I am afraid to drop the metropolitan files in there as the main file is a grp file.


See, these kind of files should have an auto-installer (dont flame me all at once for saying that :)

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster
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User is offline   MetHy 

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#32

This is probably because you already have a different con file in your folder. Get rid of that (even if you don't play the episode, Duke automatically runs con files from grps files unless there are some in the folder)

Edit : if all else fails, you can use GRP Viewer (download link : http://dukerepositor...hp?getFile=3379 ) to extract every map of the episode and play them separately. It looses the effect of playing it as an episode, however, just like in the original game, every single map was designed so that it can be beaten on its own (that is to say, starting just with a pistol and 100 health), so you're not really losing so much.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 03 March 2012 - 08:17 AM

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#33

Thanks Methy. Im so confused though :) My Duke3D folder is a real mess. I got a zoo file in there (dont even know if I need that), I got the old HRP from 2005, I got last years Eduke32 in there. I think my Duke3D folder might be a house of cards lol. I'm afraid to remove any .CON or change anything. I know, I got to get around to cleaning it all up and installing the newest HRP and Eduke.

In the mean time I'll play the metro maps seperatly, and in classic 8 bit, which is always how I prefer to play a map :) . I'll jump from one map to the next and play them in order so I can still get "the effect".

Just curious: Duke3D maps I love to test and play, but I also belong to PlanetPhillp and I play-test all the new single player HL2 maps. Many of those maps (not all though, it depends on the map's author) have a device called an "auto-installer" which is nice. I just click "install", and it installs everything for me. Otherwise there are two different ways to instal those manually depending on the mod and it gets confusing). Anyone ever think of having one of them fancy "auto-installers" to install duke episodes? (not single maps, because even a 3 year old can drag and drop a map into the Duke3D folder).

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 03 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

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User is offline   MetHy 

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#34

I keep a regular Duke3D folder for regular usermaps, but each time somebody releases a map/episode/mod which includes a grp, con files, or whatever, I make a new Duke folder from scratch which I delete after playing. That's how I ensure keeping a sane main Duke folder; but to each its own.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#35

View PostBlue Lightning, on 03 March 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I found the folder that contains all the levels (e2L1, e2L3. etc-), but I am afraid to drop the metropolitan files in there as the main file is a grp file.


What?

Quote

See, these kind of files should have an auto-installer (dont flame me all at once for saying that :)


Yes, because dragging & dropping is way too complicated a process. It's usually only the first or second thing you learn about using a computer.

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#36

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 03 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

What?



Yes, because dragging & dropping is way too complicated a process. It's usually only the first or second thing you learn about using a computer.


Guess Im not a techinically sophisticated as you Mikko. :)

Dropping the episode in there is way different then just dropping a map in there, at least in a folder like mine thati s a house of cards. The instructons I followed didnt work. See, I dont make maps like you guys. I'm like Oddball: "I just ride 'em, I don't know what makes em go"

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 03 March 2012 - 08:52 AM

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User is offline   rasmus thorup 

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#37

If i ever get to release my mod, i will just make a folder with all the stuff in, to play it, just choose it in the folder destination option. That's the way i like the most.

It is I, GILGAMESH!

This post has been edited by rasmus thorup: 03 March 2012 - 08:44 AM

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#38

View Postrasmus thorup, on 03 March 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

If i ever get to release my mod, i will just make a folder with all the stuff in, to play it, just choose it in the folder destination option. That's the way i like the most.

Yeah, that sounds good. I finally was able to figure somehting out, I dropped the whole metro folder in, and then started DN and found it under user map in a buried directories folder. But it would not exicute.

Now I am trying the gviewer extracter thingy...after lunch.

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster
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User is online   Jblade 

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#39

I really don't understand the difficulty - just extract the zip file to your Duke nukem directory and run the bat file! It's harder to do it any other way :)
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User is online   Gambini 

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#40

View Postck3D, on 03 March 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

so happy to see people enjoying this release after all the work we put into it. For everyone complaining about the mapping 'lacking in quality' despite how we were deliberately going for the simple, original 3DR look - remember that every single map of the episode was made in just one day (except for Meatball Sub Making which took three days, and Derailing which took two days). Which didn't stop us from working on this for over two years though, go figure.


I never said it lacks quality. i said it lacks things that proved being not needed. I was praising the simple design, which i know was deliberate.

I´ll play this episode again tonight and write down a review in case Mikko wants one for his site. Too bad my reviews are dragging the quality of his site to an unsuspected level. :)

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User is offline   Mikko 

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#41

View PostBlue Lightning, on 03 March 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Guess Im not a techinically sophisticated as you Mikko. :)


But that's just it: installing this mod requires absolutely no technical sophistication whatsoever.

View PostBlue Lightning, on 03 March 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yeah, that sounds good. I finally was able to figure somehting out, I dropped the whole metro folder in, and then started DN and found it under user map in a buried directories folder. But it would not exicute.


There's no metro folder. There's only a zipped package called metropolitan.zip. The instructions say that you should "unzip the contents of the zip" to your Duke3D directory. There shouldn't be any Metropolitan folders in your Duke3D directory.

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#42

If anyone a problem due to their Duke folder being a mess, just make a new one. Create a new folder, and copy eduke32.exe and DUKE3D.GRP to that folder. Then place the new episode in that folder and run the .bat

Creating a new folder adds less than 50 MB to your hard drive. That's next to nothing, and you eliminate any possibility of confusion or file conflict
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User is offline   rasmus thorup 

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#43

I still prefer that the creater makes a simple folder to extract into the main duke folder.

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#44

View PostDeeperThought, on 03 March 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

If anyone a problem due to their Duke folder being a mess, just make a new one. Create a new folder, and copy eduke32.exe and DUKE3D.GRP to that folder. Then place the new episode in that folder and run the .bat

Creating a new folder adds less than 50 MB to your hard drive. That's next to nothing, and you eliminate any possibility of confusion or file conflict


Yeah, and Im down to about 2 gb left on my hardrive. :( (and losing more every day there is a damn update from Java, or microsoft, or adobe, etc.). I want to get a new computer, but it wouldnt have Xp...it would have Windows 7. Then I would face god knows how many conflicts, and not just with Eduke, but Dark Messiah, Bioshock, and Half Life 2 and Darkest Hour. It isnt something Im looking foward to, although I'm just putting off the enevitable. Every month or so I have to remove a a few HL2 maps, or even an enitre game to make room on my hardrive so it will run (minimum of 200mb free is needed).

Anyway, I used the grp viewer program and it worked like a pro :) (Thanks Methy!) Now I have a bunch of seperate .MAP files. Instead of dropping them all in the Duke folder, I put them in a folder I named "Metro", and I can find the folder under "user maps", and then "directories". Map one wont automatically take me to map 2, however the metro directory comes up after the map is done, and the next map is right there. :)

So far I have to say these maps (I have played 2) are works of art. The classic "City of Sin" map is a cityscape benchmark...but these rival that map. In fact, these feel even more like the original classics, like Hollywood Holocaust and Red Light District. I'm glad I did the work to get these maps open...it sure is paying off right now! :D

"Stunticons, merge to become...Men-a-sor..." - Motormaster

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 03 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

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#45

That was a great episode :)

I don't really understand why the train map is included though, since it's gameplay and design are nothing like the original Duke maps. It's the complete opposite of what the first map tries to do - creating an interesting gameplay environment with as little as possible. The same goes for the following two maps - the stadium felt very un-Duke, as did the epilepsy map. The queen, though, was a satisfying end to the episode (though it's a bit on the safe side and doesn't do anything new), and the high altitude map was AMAZING and really felt like something I haven't seen in Duke before. If not for the train and the following choose-your-ending (so the altitude map was the only ending) it would've been perfect.

All in all I think I'll remember the first, and the altitude map the most - they both felt refreshing in their own way (I really hope to see more maps like the first one and that mappers learn from this kind of simplicity). The train was without a doubt my least favorite (design and gameplay-wise, on top of not blending in with the overall feel of the episode), along with the epilepsy and stadium maps.

Thanks guys :) It was a fun ride!
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#46

View PostGeoffrey, on 03 March 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

That was a great episode :)

I don't really understand why the train map is included though, since it's gameplay and design are nothing like the original Duke maps. It's the complete opposite of what the first map tries to do - creating an interesting gameplay environment with as little as possible. The same goes for the following two maps - the stadium felt very un-Duke, as did the epilepsy map. The queen, though, was a satisfying end to the episode (though it's a bit on the safe side and doesn't do anything new), and the high altitude map was AMAZING and really felt like something I haven't seen in Duke before. If not for the train and the following choose-your-ending (so the altitude map was the only ending) it would've been perfect.

All in all I think I'll remember the first, and the altitude map the most - they both felt refreshing in their own way (I really hope to see more maps like the first one and that mappers learn from this kind of simplicity). The train was without a doubt my least favorite (design and gameplay-wise, on top of not blending in with the overall feel of the episode), along with the epilepsy and stadium maps.

Thanks guys :) It was a fun ride!


I'm glad you enjoyed it. Again, your FBPS003.map was one of the main inspiration for me, and is in the 2nd place of my top 2 "classic style user maps" just after Back Alley (I'm starting to sound redundant here talking about this map all the time).

I'm surprised you praise the first map so much, I made it, and to me it only serves the purpose of a simple short nostalgic ride to introduce the other maps. Every other map surpasses it in the episode.
Plus I remember you a long time ago almost calling my style "boring"; well your exact words were that things were not "dynamic" and you took the example of Hollywood Holocaust and how the building you first see on the street has an angle of 120°, contrary to the "squarrish" architecture I usually make.
Well, in the first map here, what I did is copying that building from E1L1 but make it less "dynamic" with a simple "squarrish" 90° angle; hence my surprise once again for you praises.

Much appreciated though.

Edit : I agree about High-Altitude Face off. Mikko made it and I told him it was the best boss map I had ever played in Duke.


This post has been edited by MetHy: 03 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

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#47

Shit!!! this is finally released!!!! Downloading right now :) :)
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#48

Thanks Fakir; I always look forward to reading your comments!

MRCK's "epilepsy" map is kinda like an extra hardcore ending to the episode. If it were the ending to the episode, it would be bad, but as it is, it's kinda cool. Funnily enough during testing both MetHunter and Gambini failed to get past the first room but it's actually quite easy after that.

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#49

Forgot to mention that 'High altitude face off" is indeed one of the best boss maps ever. Great idea and perfect execution, I loved it. (y) I didn't really like that epilepsy map either, especially since it rehashes the big Roch Island fight at the end.. and I never had the patience to properly finish that fight in the first place. :) But since it's only optional, I don't mind its inclusion.
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#50

View PostMetHy, on 03 March 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

I'm surprised you praise the first map so much, I made it, and to me it only serves the purpose of a simple short nostalgic ride to introduce the other maps. Every other map surpasses it in the episode.
Plus I remember you a long time ago almost calling my style "boring"; well your exact words were that things were not "dynamic" and you took the example of Hollywood Holocaust and how the building you first see on the street has an angle of 120°, contrary to the "squarrish" architecture I usually make.
Well, in the first map here, what I did is copying that building from E1L1 but make it less "dynamic" with a simple "squarrish" 90° angle; hence my surprise once again for you praises.


I think you're letting the intentions you had for this map prevent you from seeing what it has become. It's funny you mention the angle thing, because I did notice this, and when I was playing I did wonder why you didn't take the time to make things a bit more interesting with something other than giant square blocks. But in the end it doesn't matter - instead of every other map in the episode it's like this map doesn't try to be a realistic environment with puzzles, it's more like a giant puzzle in city-camouflage. Everything's generic in a way, the buildings and rooms don't really try to convince the player that they're cinemas, strip clubs or appartments. In the end, I think that that's the best way to make a usermap for this game. It reminded me of the levels in Tomb Raider 1 (which could've been any game it wanted, since the core was formless and basically focussed on nothing but platform puzzles) and some more recent freeware puzzle games. I reached the nukebutton with a spare key, and backtracked to find out I did some stuff wrong, and was honestly confused about the layout and what the level was asking of me.

I hope that you can forget that this was 'just this and that' and is 'surpassed by any other etc' and experiment with this concept a whole lot more, since it really feels like a fresh take on what Duke maps could be when realism (why do we bother by the way, the game is ancient) isn't the primary goal, but gameplay is.

EDIT: not to say we should all make texture 0 maps - it's more about the area between puzzles and realism where you're aware that you're dealing with both at the same time.

This post has been edited by Geoffrey: 03 March 2012 - 12:21 PM

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#51

Indeed i prefer gameplay over mapping. But if gameplay is done, good mapping is a great bonus.

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#52

View PostGeoffrey, on 03 March 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

EDIT: not to say we should all make texture 0 maps - it's more about the area between puzzles and realism where you're aware that you're dealing with both at the same time.


I would say it's also about finding the level of detail and effort that maximizes the value of time spent. An expert mapper can make a decent vanilla map in one day. They can make a good map in two days. With three days, it gets a bit better. But they reach that point of diminishing returns where the extra time adds less and less value to the map, and less and less fun to the experience of playing it. At that point, the time is better spent on a new map. Let's say I were to hire MetHy to make an episode, and I were to pay him for two weeks of work (just hypothetical, of course :)) To maximize what I get out of his work, I would want him to make a 5 map episode with limited detail, rather than spend all two weeks on a highly detailed single map with lots of complicated effects. So with classic styled maps, we get the most bang for our buck, so to speak.
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#53

On map 6 I keep getting an error when trying to enter that first dark alley in the beggining. It boots me back to desktop.

Mabye because I have the old HRP setup? Anyone else getting the problem?

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#54

View PostBlue Lightning, on 03 March 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

On map 6 I keep getting an error when trying to enter that first dark alley in the beggining. It boots me back to desktop.

Mabye because I have the old HRP setup? Anyone else getting the problem?


Post about this in the "help me" forum and include your log file. It's pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with this episode, which isn't intended to be played with the HRP anyway. And yes, you seem to be the only one having the problem, since entering that alley is necessary for completing the level.
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User is offline   MetHy 

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#55

View PostGeoffrey, on 03 March 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

I reached the nukebutton with a spare key, and backtracked to find out I did some stuff wrong, and was honestly confused about the layout and what the level was asking of me.


Putting it like this makes me think that no, I have not reached my goal for this map.

Also to be honest, I never intended to make a concept that would be "puzzle in city camoufagle". My concept was, okay, I got one day to make a classic map, I actually have no inspiration at all, so let's mix E1L1 and E1L2. Let's put 2 main buildings, a back alley, and make it a bit dynamic by having to go up/down here and there. That was it.

I like Sex City the best because at least I had a concept behind it to begin with (discovering the map little by little by going around it in 2 different layers before unlocking everything).


This post has been edited by MetHy: 03 March 2012 - 02:03 PM

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#56

Major disagreement with Geofrrey here - one of the things, or even the major thing, I loved about Duke is the "realistic" environments. By todays standards, they don't look too realistic of course, but they were realistic and cool enough to be really immersive. I could walk around in Red light district and pretend it was a real place, and that has always been the thing that really set it apart from games like Doom and Quake.

Puzzles? They're just keycard hunts and button pushing, Duke is a shooter with well thought out, recognizable environments. I think it's important to note that design has a major impact on gameplay: running around bland corridors isn't nearly as fun as blowing up a cinema!

Anyway, that's my take on it. The first level does its job well as an introduction to the episode, but as Methy said his XXX map is a lot better. That's ony of my favorites from the episode actually, I thought everything just worked in that level. :)
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#57

View PostDeeperThought, on 03 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I Let's say I were to hire MetHy to make an episode, and I were to pay him for two weeks of work (just hypothetical, of course :)) To maximize what I get out of his work, I would want him to make a 5 map episode with limited detail, rather than spend all two weeks on a highly detailed single map with lots of complicated effects.


Any time you want, man. You do the coding, I do the mapping, give a couple thousand bucks to Ken Silverman and TerminX so they can let us make it with build&eduke, now you just need to hire a couple people for textures, sprites, etc (Geoffrey for one can do that very well), and we're set.

Retro style platformers are making a lot of bucks on platforms like Steam, but nobody has made a retro style FPS yet. I'm pretty sure it could work.

I'd sign for 50€/day + 5% of whatever you make out of any sale.
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#58

According to his plan you´d end up earning only 500€, plus Royalties. :)

Quote

Retro style platformers are making a lot of bucks on platforms like Steam, but nobody has made a retro style FPS yet. I'm pretty sure it could work.


I have that feeling too. Also a retro game would benefit from a huge performance remanent which could be used to make really really huge maps or unique enemies, with slightly differences between each and/or whatever you´d wanted to add in 1996 that could be not due to logical end user´s limitations.

Think how variated and big could be a duke styled map done in UDK. And what´s funny is that it would take less time than the needed to make a small level for a modern styled game.

My maps

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User is online   Gambini 

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#59

With the conmemoration of this episode´s release, i´m replaying it in order to refresh my mind while writting the review Mikko requested. As such I will broadcast my playthrough in a couple of minutes:

http://livestre.am/10mjs

My maps

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User is offline   ck3D 

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#60

View PostGambini, on 03 March 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

I never said it lacks quality. i said it lacks things that proved being not needed. I was praising the simple design, which i know was deliberate.

I´ll play this episode again tonight and write down a review in case Mikko wants one for his site. Too bad my reviews are dragging the quality of his site to an unsuspected level. :)


i understood that, don't worry. my reply wasn't directed to you but to some of the other posters who seemed to be slightly disappointed by the mapping and didn't realize that sometimes, less is more. i am looking forwards to your review of the episode and just spent a few minutes watching those videos of yours playing it. thank you for the dedication. also, the section of your first reply that methy quoted made me happy too - i am glad you enjoyed this piece of work.

also, even though I personally happen to (partially) disagree with geoffrey's point, due to how restrictive it can easily become, and even though the maps I contributed to this are probably the ones he disliked the most, I do find his ideas interesting. with time i am starting to enjoy the idea of purely conceptual maps more and more, although basic solid firefights in realistical environments can be fun too, and is probably what drew most of us to duke 3D in the first place when we were younger. There is probably a balance to be found somewhere, between functionality and feel, and it's probably possible to see even further beyond the realms of aesthetics in mapping than what has been done so far

This post has been edited by ck3D: 04 March 2012 - 05:37 AM

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