[koile]

Sangman, on 14 February 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I do happen to "speak" to Damien fairly regularly and he's a pretty cool dude. It's just that because he 'works' for Gearbox as well he does have to enforce the rules. That's just the reality of being a mod.

you are right - the problem are not the forum guys. they just do what GBX wants and spend a lot of time for nothing in the forum. But GBX should think about the negativ PR if they do thinks like they do. They should stop tell lies and take care about there buyers (and should let them feel that they take care!!)

[MusicallyInspired]

Gearbox has always been bad and shady to me. This is just the last straw for me. I was optimistic when they took DNF because I wanted to believe that it would still turn out good. They DID say that they were just finishing up and releasing 3DR's game, which was commendable for their character. Then they said they had no plans to release mod tools. And with the whole fiasco about the in-game console....I just don't care if the next Duke game they make is good, at this point I'm not buying it.

[rasmus thorup]

I agree with you that they don't really care about the fans.

[----]

Sangman, on 14 February 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I do happen to "speak" to Damien fairly regularly ...

He indeed is. And I am totally honest here. Had a few nice PMs with him a few days before I left the GBX forums (I knew it was about to happen and wanted to let him know he is a nice guy and I have no harsh feelings for him).

Aditionally:
I even met him on the Steam Serious Sam 3 forums where he posted that for Serious Sam 2 the "wrong" publisher took over and brought that game into the wrong direction and that he (Damien) is glad that Croteam got rid of them and found a better publisher for SS3. (I paraphrased)
Well, it turns out that the publisher he is glad Croteam got rid of is 2K games.

[Ronin]

The farce continues.

[Zavage300]

But The excuse is that Reloaded is taking too much attention away from Forever. What attention? The only attention it has gotten is the constant ripping it has been getting, no one wants to play it. And randy always constantly repeated of how we should bring duke to his throne and stuff, well You failed to do that Randy Pitchfork. Now Let the Community Fix what you have broken. Reloaded was gonna be the real redemption to show that Duke isn't some generic brainless deuche. But now that plan is all shot up. And now we get this treatment. Gearbox has always been a strange bunch for me too. The only reason I went in the train was because of Duke. That was it, and Now as a new fan of Gearbox after I saw everything that was going on the forums I immediately Stopped being a Fan quickly.

And as for 2K games, OH MAN YOU CAN COUNT ME OUT OF ANYTHING THEY EVEN ANNOUNCE.

[Zavage300]

MusicallyInspired, on 14 February 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I just don't care if the next Duke game they make is good, at this point I'm not buying it.

I have gotten to that state also.

[Sangman]

Zavage300, on 14 February 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Randy Pitchfork

Congratulations, you're the millionth person to say that! You win a prize from the "Lol Gay Ben is fat" academy.

[Kathy]

MusicallyInspired, on 14 February 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Then they said they had no plans to release mod tools.

Did they say it clearly? The only thing remember was ~"we'll see, maybe"

[EliasCamber]

trustn0!, on 14 February 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Fresch and team fucked up big time.
They were told to stfu and they didnt.

Actually, they did. And even if they hadn't, it still is completely disrespectful of Gearbox to refuse to tell them if they would EVER be able to release their work. Disrespectful both to the team that was working on the project and the fans who were waiting for it.

I agree with the posters here who say Damien isn't really to blame. Before one of the DNR threads was deleted I saw a post from him along the lines of "respectful discussion of this topic will be allowed", however someone like AdamF, ChrisF, etc. has clearly been trying to prevent ANY discussion of this there, even going so far as to pressure fresch to remove his blog. Of course some censorship is to be expected on a company's forums, but Gearbox has gone a little crazy here IMO.

[Zavage300]

The thing is People think That Interceptor screwed up but not really, If Gearbox would just have thought about it more throughly They should have just never given Fred the Duke Nukem Name and there would be no hype no waste of time, But what Kind of Company gives a non profit team the name and then out of nowhere say HEY you can keep working on it for fun but you are not allowed because our game sucks more and needs all the attention it needs so we can squeeze more money out of the DLC's It just doesn't sound right to me. If Interceptor Screwed up than Gearbox just SCREWED UP EVEN HARDER while being dicks about it.

[Jimmy]

EliasCamber, on 14 February 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Actually, they did. And even if they hadn't, it still is completely disrespectful of Gearbox to refuse to tell them if they would EVER be able to release their work. Disrespectful both to the team that was working on the project and the fans who were waiting for it.

I agree with the posters here who say Damien isn't really to blame. Before one of the DNR threads was deleted I saw a post from him along the lines of "respectful discussion of this topic will be allowed", however someone like AdamF, ChrisF, etc. has clearly been trying to prevent ANY discussion of this there, even going so far as to pressure fresch to remove his blog. Of course some censorship is to be expected on a company's forums, but Gearbox has gone a little crazy here IMO.

Zavage300, on 14 February 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

The thing is People think That Interceptor screwed up but not really, If Gearbox would just have thought about it more throughly They should have just never given Fred the Duke Nukem Name and there would be no hype no waste of time, But what Kind of Company gives a non profit team the name and then out of nowhere say HEY you can keep working on it for fun but you are not allowed because our game sucks more and needs all the attention it needs so we can squeeze more money out of the DLC's It just doesn't sound right to me. If Interceptor Screwed up than Gearbox just SCREWED UP EVEN HARDER while being dicks about it.

You are both incredibly uninformed and naive. Gearbox handled things like ANY company would have. They are not going to release anything on license until they approve it. That means no one is getting a premature okay. This is how the whole industry works. In reality, nothing really changed from 3DR to Gearbox, except 3DR would just flat out say no before anything began. Same deal with the forums, Damien is still the pushover yes-man he was over at 3DR. After 3DR cracked down on the postwhoring, everything sucked and all that suck transferred to Gearbox. At least there is still some postwhore here.

[Come On And Slam]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

In reality, nothing really changed from 3DR to Gearbox

Not true.

[Jimmy]

Elaborate. I don't know who the hell you are, but I posted on 3DR from ~2005 until they became a ghost town, and there really isn't much difference at all except GBX just has more noobs.

[Mad Max RW]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

You are both incredibly uninformed and naive. Gearbox handled things like ANY company would have.

Not too many companies hire outside studios to work without pay.

In this case the studio was lead by a naive fanboy and the company thought they could use him as sort of public relations goodwill to drive up the initial blast of DNF sales.

[BugsBunny]

Reading this thread makes me wonder how imaginative people's brain can be in a forum - some assuming that the project was not allowed to see the light of the day because apparently it was not that well made. Lets put the facts straight.
1) There is NO communication from Gearbox that indicates they forced canned the project because of its inferior quality.
2) One member in this forum got hold of an alpha copy and found few bugs in the project. The point to be noted is it is the alpha version. Did you expect a bug free game in alpha version ?
3) Fresch has openly come out and stated his side of the story. He may or may not have twisted it to suit him , but at least he has said his side of the story clearly.
4) Gearbox didn't say their side of the story. All they did is flying out ban hammers to members who raise the topic, and keep on deleting the topic. IF GEARBOX IS HONEST, WHY TRY TO HIDE SOMETHING ?
5) Why is Fresch and his entire blog vanished within days of he making his side of the story open to public ? Who threatened him ( probably legally ) to remove his blog all together ?

Clearly a patten is emerging.
1) One side wants to tell the story , and one side wants to hide it.
2) The one side that wants to hide the story has forced the other side in taking off his blog, his story.

Irrespective of some nice individuals that some of you may know working in Gearbox, the position is completely clear. Gearbox has played very dirty, the dirt is out, and they want to hide it. So ban the members that talk about it, force the author of the canned project to take his blog down.

Like I said earlier, if Gearbox is honest, why are they trying to hide the story ? Why not issue a PR statement clarifying their position ?

[ReaperMan]

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

2) One member in this forum got hold of an alpha copy and found few bugs in the project. The point to be noted is it is the alpha version. Did you expect a bug free game in alpha version ?

I wouldn't call TX just a member, when he says something like the code wasn't anywhere near being complete, even though Fresch says that they were "90% finished" with a playable multiplayer beta, you should probably take that as fact.

[rasmus thorup]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

You are both incredibly uninformed and naive. Gearbox handled things like ANY company would have. They are not going to release anything on license until they approve it. That means no one is getting a premature okay. This is how the whole industry works. In reality, nothing really changed from 3DR to Gearbox, except 3DR would just flat out say no before anything began. Same deal with the forums, Damien is still the pushover yes-man he was over at 3DR. After 3DR cracked down on the postwhoring, everything sucked and all that suck transferred to Gearbox. At least there is still some postwhore here.

But if gearbox said no before it had all begun like you say 3DR would, it would have saved fresch and his team a whole year. I think that's a pretty big difference.

[ReaperMan]

rasmus thorup, on 14 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

But if gearbox said no before it had all begun like you say 3DR would, it would have saved fresch and his team a whole year. I think that's a pretty big difference.

Yeah, i agree.

[Hendricks266]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Elaborate. I don't know who the hell you are, but I posted on 3DR from ~2005 until they became a ghost town, and there really isn't much difference at all except GBX just has more noobs.

Likewise for me. Many people around here can comment on this, in particular TX who remains a Super Moderator on 3DR.

Mad Max RW, on 14 February 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

hire

Is that the right word to use?

[Jimmy]

Mad Max RW, on 14 February 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Not too many companies hire outside studios to work without pay.

In this case the studio was lead by a naive fanboy and the company thought they could use him as sort of public relations goodwill to drive up the initial blast of DNF sales.

Not quite. Remember that Interceptor approached Gearbox. However, what you state about it being a PR bit is only speculation. What we do know is that Fresch made a huge mistake by getting all up in Gearbox's corner during a major campaign for a game that would be it's competitor. Of course Gearbox wouldn't want the game released until mid-2012 after the DLC's were all done. They don't want competition amongst the IP. Fresch didn't play his cards right, and he learned the hard way you can't always get what you want when you want it.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Reading this thread makes me wonder how imaginative people's brain can be in a forum - some assuming that the project was not allowed to see the light of the day because apparently it was not that well made. Lets put the facts straight.
1) There is NO communication from Gearbox that indicates they forced canned the project because of its inferior quality.

It's an ample assumption. All released media point to it being unfinished and shoddy.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

2) One member in this forum got hold of an alpha copy and found few bugs in the project. The point to be noted is it is the alpha version. Did you expect a bug free game in alpha version?

You missed the point completely. TerminX, who as stated above should not be taken lightly, played an 'alpha' very close to the first projected release. From the alpha he played it was obvious that the team did not have an experienced and dedicated programmer, and no matter how good your resources are, if your programming is shit, your game will be shit.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

3) Fresch has openly come out and stated his side of the story. He may or may not have twisted it to suit him , but at least he has said his side of the story clearly.
4) Gearbox didn't say their side of the story. All they did is flying out ban hammers to members who raise the topic, and keep on deleting the topic. IF GEARBOX IS HONEST, WHY TRY TO HIDE SOMETHING ?
5) Why is Fresch and his entire blog vanished within days of he making his side of the story open to public ? Who threatened him ( probably legally ) to remove his blog all together ?

I bet you wear tin foil hats. I'd bet cash money that it was Fresch himself who took down his website just so people like you who are completely crackers would connect dots that aren't there. Even if Gearbox did get him to take it down, one could only think it's because he broke a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Clearly a patten is emerging.
1) One side wants to tell the story , and one side wants to hide it.
2) The one side that wants to hide the story has forced the other side in taking off his blog, his story.

Prove it.

rasmus thorup, on 14 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

But if gearbox said no before it had all begun like you say 3DR would, it would have saved fresch and his team a whole year. I think that's a pretty big difference.

But it's not Gearbox's fault that Fresch wanted to bully them into saying they'd release it. He played the game like he made the rules, and he got burned for it.

[Tea Monster]

Why would they give an unknown team making an unfinished game a promise that they would release their game? The game wasn't finished and Fresch didn't have a solid track record on producing product. Explain how, if you were Gearbox, you would tell him "Yes, we are going to release your game and on this day." even if you had no idea if Fresch would actually deliver a professional, playable product. Not saying that he wouldn't or couldn't, but if it was your name as a pro game house on the line, I'd wait till it was done.

[Mad Max RW]

Hendricks266, on 14 February 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Is that the right word to use?

Absolutely. They were given an official license, signed it, and were working directly for Gearbox like how other studios work under their publishers and intellectual property holders. At any time your work can be yanked away, put on hold, or trashed and there isn't anything you can do about it. The difference here is they worked without pay. That's what people are forgetting. The rest isn't important. It only proves my theory at the very beginning how Duke Nukem Reloaded was a marketing ploy most likely crafted by AdamF.

[Jimmy]

But, they weren't legally bound to work on it. They continued working by their own free will fully knowing that their status was in limbo, and if the team didn't know that, then Fresch was deceiving them.

[JohnClay]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

.....I'd bet cash money that it was Fresch himself who took down his website just so people like you who are completely crackers would connect dots that aren't there....

I'd like to take you up on that bet... it's ridiculous.... I mean Fresch thinking "I know! I'll delete *all* of my blog posts just so that some crazy people will think Gearbox pressured me to do it - I'll just let them connect the dots on their own!" (BTW the rest of his website is still there)

Quote

Even if Gearbox did get him to take it down, one could only think it's because he broke a Non-Disclosure Agreement.....

That suggests that there was a lot of truth in his blog since I don't know how you could break a NDA with heaps of lies (otherwise it would be called "defamation").... and I'm glad that he would want to break a NDA because I want to know what happened to DNR.

[MusicallyInspired]

Helel, on 14 February 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Did they say it clearly? The only thing remember was ~"we'll see, maybe"

Randy specifically stated in a video interview that it was "not something we had planned". Though they were extremely careful with their wording. He even started to say "Nnnnno-" and then stopped himself and tried to pass it off in the best PR way he could muster by saying things like "we've done that kind of thing before". I believe the fact is they were hoping nobody would keep pressuring them about it. "Maybe" means no when it comes from Randy's mouth. He probably kicked himself for even saying they hadn't planned it.

[BugsBunny]

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

It's an ample assumption. All released media point to it being unfinished and shoddy.

I am glad you stated that it is an ASSUMPTION. I haven't seen any such media. May be you have in your dreams ? The only soundless video in Youtube no body knows how old that build is. And the images floating around are quite good for an alpha version of a product.

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

You missed the point completely. TerminX, who as stated above should not be taken lightly, played an 'alpha' very close to the first projected release. From the alpha he played it was obvious that the team did not have an experienced and dedicated programmer, and no matter how good your resources are, if your programming is shit, your game will be shit.

You still dont know what an alpha version of a software is, how so ever it is close to the finished product it is. Alpha is still alpha, not Beta, not Release Candidate. Often hundreds are bugs are fixed in last few days before a software goes from RC to final retail version. What TerminX played is still Alpha version.

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I bet you wear tin foil hats. I'd bet cash money that it was Fresch himself who took down his website just so people like you who are completely crackers would connect dots that aren't there. Even if Gearbox did get him to take it down, one could only think it's because he broke a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

Again you are assuming that out of your ass. Sure Gearbox has not lent you the hat you are wearing ? I am atleast trying to connect the dots. You are completely ignoring the dots with assumptions after assumptions out of your ass.

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Prove it.

It is already proved if you open your eyes, or is it still covered by the Gearbox hat ? Why else would Gearbox start flying ban hammers at members trying to discuss the topic and delete the topic. If they are honest and nothing to hide, they should not delete the topic in their forums and be banning members who are trying to discuss the topic. And probably should have come out with a sugar coated PR statement to present their side of the story.

Wolfe, on 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

But it's not Gearbox's fault that Fresch wanted to bully them into saying they'd release it. He played the game like he made the rules, and he got burned for it.

LOL you must do the job of a lawyer. You have great powers of twisting simple facts from day to night. Here a guy has worked for one year for free, and the company says, I quote "We can’t give you an answer to that. Of course you can keep working on it, if you want to. But we can’t tell you if we will allow the game to be released." And you call Fresch the bully ?!

[EliasCamber]

Tea Monster, on 14 February 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Why would they give an unknown team making an unfinished game a promise that they would release their game? The game wasn't finished and Fresch didn't have a solid track record on producing product. Explain how, if you were Gearbox, you would tell him "Yes, we are going to release your game and on this day." even if you had no idea if Fresch would actually deliver a professional, playable product. Not saying that he wouldn't or couldn't, but if it was your name as a pro game house on the line, I'd wait till it was done.

If this was what Gearbox was trying to communicate, that they wanted to ensure the product was quality before releasing it, then they have the communication skills of a two-year-old.

This could all have been resolved if Gearbox had said "We'd love to work with you to ensure Duke Nukem Reloaded sees a release. However, there are certain issues in the current build we feel need to be addressed ...". That would have been a perfectly reasonable response. But the response they got was essentially "Go to hell, we'll let you release when AND IF we feel like it". See the difference there? One response comes off as being supportive of the fan community and the time and effort put into the project, the other comes off as disrespectful.

And what's this about "your name as a pro game house on the line"? Gearbox got trashed massively by critics with the DNF release. If DNR did badly, I can't see how Gearbox's reputation would be hurt any further, especially since all the PR made it clear GBX was just signing off on a project by Interceptor.

[Hank]

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

LOL you must do the job of a lawyer. You have great powers of twisting simple facts from day to night. Here a guy has worked for one year for free, and the company says, I quote "We can't give you an answer to that. Of course you can keep working on it, if you want to. But we can't tell you if we will allow the game to be released." And you call Fresch the bully ?!

Well he is. I managed to troll him once, where he posted a bit too much of his arrogance. You can search it around May 2011

In general

Fresch moved on
http://meny-graphics.dk/?page_id=411
Gearbox moved on
http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/games/

I think neither give a shit about us rigtht now, ergo I don't give a shit about them. On the other hand I am a member here, so, how about calling a truce until one day we know the facts? It's Valentine's Day. I've got mine, I hope you've got yours.

[Jimmy]

JohnClay, on 14 February 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'd like to take you up on that bet... it's ridiculous.... I mean Fresch thinking "I know! I'll delete *all* of my blog posts just so that some crazy people will think Gearbox pressured me to do it - I'll just let them connect the dots on their own!" (BTW the rest of his website is still there)

Fresch is a drama queen. A drama queen will do anything, like wear fishnet t-shirts.

JohnClay, on 14 February 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

That suggests that there was a lot of truth in his blog since I don't know how you could break a NDA with heaps of lies (otherwise it would be called "defamation").... and I'm glad that he would want to break a NDA because I want to know what happened to DNR.

You don't know what an NDA is. An NDA means you don't talk about it, period. Truth, lies, it don't matter. And that is likely the case, since Gearbox isn't talking about it either. Fresch likely signed the NDA not knowing what it was or thinking that legal binding documents aren't serious business. It's obvious he didn't have a lawyer (or at least a good one.)

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

I am glad you stated that it is an ASSUMPTION. I haven't seen any such media. May be you have in your dreams ? The only soundless video in Youtube no body knows how old that build is. And the images floating around are quite good for an alpha version of a product.

Here comes the hint express, last stop you! That IS all the media. Oh yeah, and tons of stupid concept art. It's obvious they did dick all in terms of progress.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

You still dont know what an alpha version of a software is, how so ever it is close to the finished product it is. Alpha is still alpha, not Beta, not Release Candidate. Often hundreds are bugs are fixed in last few days before a software goes from RC to final retail version. What TerminX played is still Alpha version.

You missed the part where it was rather close to the first estimated release and they still didn't have a programmer. Nonexistent programming is not a 'bug'. Do you know how much time it takes to program something? I doubt it. Besides, the point is more of that they didn't have shit to show, which means that Gearbox was probably "blown away" by how little progress had been made.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Again you are assuming that out of your ass. Sure Gearbox has not lent you the hat you are wearing ? I am atleast trying to connect the dots. You are completely ignoring the dots with assumptions after assumptions out of your ass.

You're a total derp. I'm the one assuming when all of you are so sure big bad Gearbox Software ruined your perfect game. At least my
assumptions are presented as such, not as fact, and I actually base my assumptions in REALITY and things that we know. You guys are acting like 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists. What next, Randy Pitchford bombed Interceptor's basement studio? Besides, I say fuck Gearbox, but seriously you have to give the Devil his due. Gearbox behaved and responded pretty much like any other company preoccupied with a marketing cycle would have. They don't have time for peanuts when steak is on the table.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

It is already proved if you open your eyes, or is it still covered by the Gearbox hat ? Why else would Gearbox start flying ban hammers at members trying to discuss the topic and delete the topic. If they are honest and nothing to hide, they should not delete the topic in their forums and be banning members who are trying to discuss the topic. And probably should have come out with a sugar coated PR statement to present their side of the story.

Once again, NDAs. And who gives a shit if Gearbox bans people? It's their fucking forums, they can do whatever they want.

BugsBunny, on 14 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

LOL you must do the job of a lawyer. You have great powers of twisting simple facts from day to night. Here a guy has worked for one year for free, and the company says, I quote "We can’t give you an answer to that. Of course you can keep working on it, if you want to. But we can’t tell you if we will allow the game to be released." And you call Fresch the bully ?!

Yeah, he is because they told him to hold on in the first place, and he refused. He is not the owner of Duke Nukem, if he wants to do things his way Gearbox was justified in telling him to kindly fuck off.


Hank, Valentines Day is faggotry I will not partake in.