[Tetsuo]

Loke, on 01 September 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Yeah, I can never finish that mission on the first try. I always seem to miss some obscure guard in a watch tower.
There's also that mission much later on in which you have to silently assassinate a few officers in a village without being detected. Though it's generally a lot easier due to the cramped street areas. It's also a bit fun which is weird coming from me who absolutely hate instant fail stealth missions in games (*cough* Jedi Outcast being one of the worst contender IMO *cough*).

I could almost also swear those guards in the guard towers even have x-ray vision sometimes as their visual acuity is insane sometimes I've had them sound the alarm and I was behind a building out of their view. So mostly in that part I have to go around the perimeter and try to flank them as careful as possible. I tend to hate instant fail stealth missions which oddly enough didn't bother me too much in the Assassin's Creed games even though I failed dozens of times there too and had to make minute adjustments to my "strategy" before finally making it through.

Anyway, I really like Half-Life 2 and the driving portions there never bothered me to me they where fun although if one hates linearity they should automatically hate those levels because they are literally just large highly linear corridors that you speed along with your vehicle. Also at least the controls there for driving where better than in DNF. The only way to get proper steering in DNF is if you somehow setup a joystick or steering wheel on the side mapped to the movement functions natively so you get analog control. But yeah I can see how the driving portions in DNF where inspired by it (Half-Life 2). Also in general I mean the in-game cut scenes and the style of the levels is more like Half-Life than it is the old Duke.

[Spirrwell]

Tea Monster, on 01 September 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

I do. I also realise that Stefan Fueger is entirely beholden to Gearbox as DNR is a licenced product. Stefan Fueger could promise the editor, and someone at gearbox says no and it suddenly it isn't there any more. Nobody here gets that its not just a regular mod. This probably won't happen, but as with most things Duke nowadays, I'm not counting on anything till I see it with my own eyes.

What would be the point? Gearbox has virtually nothing to lose. All they care about is that the game gets a good enough reputation to make them look better. The only thing mod tools would do is make the game live a little longer, and they don't have to have 2k breathing down their neck about it either. If Gearbox really does say no eventually, then they really are assholes, but I think it's the publisher while they're being played as the puppet as being the cause of certain things.

[ReaperMan]

Mad Max RW, on 01 September 2011 - 04:33 AM, said:

Every time the lead guy (fresch) opens his mouth he lets slip another detail about the game that sounds nothing like Duke Nukem. Stealth sections, slowed down gameplay, dark, serious and gritty, it's all bullshit. Not to forget about the fact we're half a year past the proposed multiplayer demo, and they're now completely under the thumb of Gearbox. They can't even release a single screenshot without their approval. Yet Gearbox approved DNF. It makes me very concerned about their ability to produce something that doesn't shit all over the fans even more.

Don't forget that this is the same guy who wanted to remake Daikatana (http://www.moddb.com...aikatana-remake)..... Thats just a bad idea period. It seems this guy comes out of the woodwork and all the sudden and Gearbox allows him to remake Duke 3D; even worse he doesn't even seem to know what Duke 3D is about.


Also look at this...



Thats what they are making Duke Nukem look like in DN3D:R, he looks like an old man.

[Graywolf]

ReaperMan, on 01 September 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:

Don't forget that this is the same guy who wanted to remake Daikatana (http://www.moddb.com...aikatana-remake)..... Thats just a bad idea period. It seems this guy comes out of the woodwork and all the sudden and Gearbox allows him to remake Duke 3D; even worse he doesn't even seem to know what Duke 3D is about.


Also look at this...



Thats what they are making Duke Nukem look like in DN3D:R, he looks like an old man.

Duke looks too young on DNF. But he looks too old on this.

O DNf he looks 29, 30, 31... on DN3D:R he looks 45, 46, 47... I think it should be 37, 38, 39... for me that's what it looked on Duke 3D.

About the Daikatana remake, i'll quote a comment from that link you posted:

"This must be like spraying air freshener on a 10 year-old turd"

[Oook]

Graywolf, on 01 September 2011 - 02:32 PM, said:

Yeah, when it comes to Far Cry 1 i'm pretty much suspect to talk about.I love that game so much. I enjoyed the second one from ubisoft as well (IMO a very underrated game), but the first Far Cry is a masterpiece and for me personally has endless single player replay value, like Duke Nukem 3D and Doom 3.
Its funny, because both games (FC1 and Doom 3) were ofuscated by the massively overrrated Half-life 2, a game that IMO DNF took so much inspiration (correct if i'm wrong, but broussard himself said years ago that its one of his all time favorite games). And the thing that makes HL2 distinct from Doom 3 and Far Cry, is the boring "adventure" and "gameplay variety" approach, that's (for me) what ruined DNF, and HL2 as well. The fist half-life altought I loved it, it was more straight to the point and fun than the second one.

It may sound elitist, but for me a shooter should be a shooter.

I totally agree with you, HL2 is probably the most overrated game ever. Far Cry, Doom 3 and Painkiller are MUCH better and from the same release year. First Half Life is both original and fun, but the second... very disappointing (and boring) game.
I cannot understand why they didn't look at Prey instead of HL2, a game from the same 3D Realms, funny, original and intense.

[Tetsuo]

Frederik Schreiber is going to make us all his bitch.

(if you didn't get that joke look at his daikatana remake page and then come back and read this again)

[X-Vector]

Tetsuo, on 01 September 2011 - 02:18 AM, said:

Hmmm, I can't tell if you are agreeing with me and just adding another to my little list there or just being snarky and insinuating that I too have an attitude problem.

It was both a general comment and one that relates to the topic at hand, e.g. the (recently deleted?) childish comments on Fresch's appearance in another thread.

[----]

Tea Monster, on 01 September 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

Unless they encrypt the assets, like they did with Duke.

No, that won't happen. It will be moddable. There will be a way ... whatever happens.


I think I can calm those down who think that DN3DR will be "Thief Nukem" or "Metal Duke Solid". You might be able to sneak up to enemies when following for example the side-path through a vent or so ... but that was possible with DN3D too. But there won't be any HUD-indicators or so that show you if an enemy sees you, or so.

I even think that you need to hide less than in DNF ... because the game won't be balanced around regenrating health.


Yes, some thing are hard to express in words when saying "darker and more gritty". But in the end all teammebers are Duke Nukem 3D fans and it won'T become Gears of Nukem either... and the public betas are also for feedback from the community.


Oh, and ingame Duke does not look that old. That's because the ingame model has less wrinkles


BTW, frustration in the team grows because of the media embargo and that we cannot show anything.

[Spirrwell]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

No, that won't happen. It will be moddable.


I think I can calm those down who think that DN3DR will be "Thief Nukem" or "Metal Duke Solid". You might be able to sneak up to enemies when following the side-path through a vent or so ... but that was possible with DN3D too. BUt there won't be any HUD-indicators or so that show you if an enemy sees you, or so.

I even think that you need to hide less than in DNF ... because the game won't be balanced around regenrating health.

What everyone seems to worry about is that Gearbox is going to step on your toes and say "No, you can't do it."

[----]

Spirrwell, on 02 September 2011 - 05:20 AM, said:

What everyone seems to worry about is...

Yes, you are right on this: EVERYONE ...


EDIT:
I think everyone would love that DN3DR is a more open project with better and more showing of media and builds to the public... but look what happened to the Duke 98 community game. It had to "hide" in a protected forum.

[Spirrwell]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yes, you are right on this: EVERYONE ...

Ah...

Well like I said, if Gearbox does, that just shows that they're assholes, but also like I said, I think it was the publisher that screwed over Gearbox with DNF, I don't think Gearbox would be that way, hey, maybe Randy would re-make Area 51 for you guys, after all, he made the original one right?

[Hank]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yes, you are right on this: EVERYONE ...


EDIT:
I think everyone would love that DN3DR is a more open project with better and more showing of media and builds to the public... but look what happened to the Duke 98 community game. It had to "hide" in a protected forum.

Who is everyone? I do not need hype! You guys are years from finished and it would be counter productive to the Donation system designed by fresch.

[----]

Hank, on 02 September 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

Who is everyone?

The DN3DR team ... but that is no longer the case. A small update will come later. No media though. But an official statement about GBX' stance on updates of DNR.

Some talking with GBX had been done since my last post covering exactly that matter because nobody (team included) liked the situation.

Now everything is better.

[Spirrwell]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

The DN3DR team ... but that is no longer the case. A small update will come later. No media though. But an official statement about GBX' stance on updates of DNR.

Some talking with GBX had been done since my last post covering exactly that matter because nobody (team included) liked the situation.

Now everything is better.

What do you mean by better? Or is that information confidential until we hear from Gearbox?

[----]

Spirrwell, on 02 September 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

What do you mean by better? Or is that information confidential until we hear from Gearbox?

THe general problem with communicating about DNR is that too many things are confidential. Currently I am assigned to be the only one (except Fresch, of course) to talk about DNR in public. And still I sometimes don't know what I may say and what not.

Let it put it this way: The fear you had about GBX shutting down certain aspects of the game (editor for example) were shared by teammebers. And with GamesCom and PAX just behind us it was hard to talk to GBX as they were very busy. Now the situation was cleared.

So, there is NOTHING to be feared.

As said, a small official announcement will follow later and I will post a link to it.

[ReaperMan]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

I think I can calm those down who think that DN3DR will be "Thief Nukem" or "Metal Duke Solid". You might be able to sneak up to enemies when following for example the side-path through a vent or so ... but that was possible with DN3D too. But there won't be any HUD-indicators or so that show you if an enemy sees you, or so.

So is it going through vents thats considered stealth then? Thats not really stealth, its more like a flanking maneuver and if you recall in Duke3D sometimes you had to go through the vents.

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

I ...game won't be balanced around regenerating health.

Thats good to know... will there be med-kits and portable med-kits like the original Duke3D then? Or are you going a different route?

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

Oh, and ingame Duke does not look that old. That's because the ingame model has less wrinkles

We will see... is he that pale in-game or no?

[Spirrwell]

ReaperMan, on 02 September 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

We will see... is he that pale in-game or no?

Even if he was, the game is going to be moddable, the skin for the model would probably be very easy to modify to make a darker skin tone.

[Hank]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

As said, a small official announcement will follow later and I will post a link to it.

You know I'm a smartass
http://www.dukenukem....php?f=9&t=2140

all the best

[----]

Hank, on 02 September 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

You know I'm a smartass
http://www.dukenukem....php?f=9&t=2140

all the best

No problem.

The team also asked if we were allowed to at least post a teaser shot or some concept art to show the game is still alive ... but it seems that was a no.



@ReaperMan:
It is really hard to communicate stuff based on an existing game that gets slightly (!!!) changed in terms of gameplay but isn't allowed to be shown in a trailer or playtested yet. If we say that you will be able to flank enemies it would be nothing special and nobody would care. And if we say there will be stealth elements (meaning you can, but don't have to, sneak upon enemies without them seeing you) it is easy to get the impression that this is the main focus.
Currently (and it will stay that way) it is a shoot-from-the-hip, no-ironsights game that has a few more places to hide behind than Duke Nukem 3D. But again, please don't think that this statement means the levels are cluttered with chest high walls for cover everywhere. I have seen less places to hide behind in DN3DR's streets than on the Vegas-In-Ruins road.

Further, you will have all the stuff from the original DN3D, health pickups, portable medkits, the Holoduke, night vision goggles, etc ... weapons, ammocount and damage will roughly be the same as in DN3DR (further balanced from feedback of the multiplayer beta). You get a second firemode for all weapons, though.

An finally: No, Duke isn't that pale in the game.


EDIT:
A very personal note regarding the original topic:
I (and most of the other teammebers) are very well aware of the fact that for example a changed Hollywood Holocaust layout will cause anger among some people as they want it to be a 1:1 conversion with more polygons and modern shaders. But if you like the general art direction you can easily map the default Hollywood Holocaust. One of the reason behind the changed layout is that that this project isn't meant to interfere with eDuke32.

[Spirrwell]

So I was right. DNF DLC had to come first. Heheh.

[Mad Max RW]

fuegerstef, I've grown to really appreciate your posts and willingness to share bits of info. Just don't let Gearbox's marketing department make you its bitch. If that shit happens and you can't communicate at all about anything then it's time for you to consider moving on. You do not want to deal with that. This is experience talking.

[----]

Mad Max RW, on 02 September 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

fuegerstef, I've grown to really appreciate your posts and willingness to share bits of info. Just don't let Gearbox's marketing department make you its bitch. If that shit happens and you can't communicate at all about anything then it's time for you to consider moving on. You do not want to deal with that. This is experience talking.

Thank you. But currently everybody on the team is proud of his/her work and really wants to make this project happen and is eager to show you something ... but there are emergency plans for the project if the worst case happens (I only say: Cam Nash).

[Tetsuo]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

But if you like the general art direction you can easily map the default Hollywood Holocaust. One of the reason behind the changed layout is that that this project isn't meant to interfere with eDuke32.

This is news to me because for quite some time and from how some people here where talking they seemed to think that project was meant to usurp eDuke32. At the very least step on its toes and make it obsolete. That on the other hand sounds pretty diplomatic. Although of course with DN3DR being probably years off there's still quite some time for eDuke32 to "finish" even if it turns out to unintentionally kill off interest in eDuke32 if/when it does come out with a build that has single player content that could be seen as a direct competitor to eDuke32.

[thelegend4ever]

I appreciate you kinda changing my view on DNR, fuegerstef. However, I still have must see the game in action before I completely diss it lol. And who knows, this could be the best Duke Nukem game ever made. But come on, the Duke model looks like he's 50..despite the official statement saying he's between the ages of 28 to 33 in the original Duke 3D. Overall, I kinda lookin forward to this game to see how it is.

[ReaperMan]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

And if we say there will be stealth elements (meaning you can, but don't have to, sneak upon enemies without them seeing you) it is easy to get the impression that this is the main focus.

Just the fact that there is a added stealth element in the game bothers me. Its like iron sights in SS3... It dosen't fit the game and doesn't belong.

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

One of the reason behind the changed layout is that that this project isn't meant to interfere with eDuke32.

It would surely interfere with Eduke32 regardless... people are going to see it as a free Duke Nukem 3d.

[----]

ReaperMan, on 02 September 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

Just the fact that there is a added stealth element in the game bothers me. Its like iron sights in SS3... It dosen't fit the game and doesn't belong.



It would surely interfere with Eduke32 regardless... people are going to see it as a free Duke Nukem 3d.

Ok, to avoid the latter, Reloaded could be made a bit different in gameplay to not be the same as eDuke32 with better graphics ... but then it suddenly is all stuff that doesn't belong in a Duke game... so Reloaded will be changed to be exactly the same as DN3D ... but then it will be the same as eDuke32 too ... hmm, to avoid that we could make it different ... but then it isn't a real Duke game anymore ... so it could be made the same as eDuke32 ... but then it might interfere...

Ok, I stop here with the only solution: Don't make a remake ever anyways ... I will tell Gearbox and Interceptor to stop the project and scrap the license. Reaper should be happy then.

EDIT:
Just posted that to show why we sometimes can't care about everybody ... whatever you do ... it is wrong to some months before they have seen, played or experienced it at all. No offense taken, no offense sent.

[Tetsuo]

On the other hand they did make a TC for Doom 3 that remakes the original Doom shareware edition with Doom 3 style graphics\architecture yet old Doom style projects and ports also still live on so there's room for both.

I here am just trying to dial my expectations and hype down somewhat considering there are many TC\Remake projects announced and many of them run out of steam and or get cancelled or go into development hell for one reason or another. There have been many promises, reassurances and many brave plans in those times as well.

[----]

Tetsuo, on 02 September 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

On the other hand they did make a TC for Doom 3 that remakes the original Doom shareware edition with Doom 3 style graphics\architecture yet old Doom style projects and ports also still live on so there's room for both.

Of course there is.

And DN3DR started before it was known that there wouldn't be modding tools for DNF. If there had been an SDK with DNF it would have started with about 20 remake projects, would now be down to 8 or 9 being still alive and only one or two would be finished sometime. But the lack of modding tools wasn't known back then ... so a different route had to be chosen.

[ReaperMan]

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Ok, to avoid the latter, Reloaded could be made a bit different in gameplay to not be the same as eDuke32 with better graphics ..blah blah blah

Your just pissed that i'm pointing out what wrong with it. I'm fine with the secondary fire for weapons, similar maps that have changes, etc. ... it would fit the game. But, then you say it will be Stealthy, Dark, Gritty, and Serious? That doesn't fit Duke Nukem at all. In my mind if you want to use Duke Nukem 3D in the title make it like Duke Nukem 3D with changes that fit the game, to create a new but similar experience.

fuegerstef, on 02 September 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just posted that to show why we sometimes can't care about everybody ... whatever you do ...

Its not about pleasing everybody its about pleasing the majority and most people don't want a Stealthy, Dark, Gritty, and Serious 75 year old Duke Nukem. Maybe thats why there's so much hate for Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded.

Also i was just point out that no matter what you do having the title of the game be "Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded" will effect anything to do with the original game.

[DavoX]

So there's the rumour that some shots were leaked, so please find them so we can discuss it at least with that insight.