[nukemania]

I like the Saturn version the most. It has great music selection, good controls, framerate and the essential gameplay is retained. With the exception of a drop in pace from having to select items, it feels like the best port experience. The new engine works great, IMO, and the inability to duck/crawl is compensated with the level design.

My next favorite is the PSX version. It's the most accurate port, has a great new fourth episode, a funny one-liner (maybe a few more), I ABSOLUTELY DIG the new music score, play control is adaptable on the (ironically) "Doomed" setting. My main issue with it is the horrid visuals. Frame rate is often abysmal and enemies tend to rip you to shreds.

Contrary to most people, I like the N64 version the least. I even tried going back to it recently, but it's almost like it deliberately wants me to hate it because it's giving me motion sickness. I didn't have that problem years back when I tried this first. I can only play it on the PC, using emulator, now (for some reason, I don't get the motion sick feeling). But anyway... The lack of music, controls I can't get used to and also the retarded way that censorship was used reduce the experience for me. Maybe it's because I use a piece-of-shit non-Nintendo controller, but vertical aiming and turning is a total bitch. I don't mind that they censored the sexual content, but they did it in such an awful way (inconsistent, made some more adult-oriented and overlooked one, I believe... makes me wonder why they even bother anyway). That's another thing that confuses me in general, not just Duke 64: how mutilated bodies, heavy violence and gore, etc. is considered worse than what they censored. One example from the game is the body hanging from the ceiling (like E3L1). In the original, it's... yeah. But in the N64 version, the woman is torn in half from about the chest area and you can see the innards. How is this successful censorship anyway?

[OpenMaw]

The censorship of Duke Nukem 64 is very freakin' minor. That was not Nintendo, either. That was on Eurocom. The censorship was handled by the porters, and as a joke they chose to go the route of violence>sex. Hence "Gun Crazy" receive the titular title, and the enviroment being much more americanised. Guns, and fast food. It's a parody of censorship itself. ...and when compared to all the additional shit that it comes with, I think its just a minor gripe that some people focus on and bitch about over and over. It does suck it's missing the music, and I really wish the game had kept the episodic nature to make it easier to play through and to your favorite levels.

The Sega Saturn version, is once again for Sega, MISSING large chunks of game. Levels are shrunk down, levels are missing various bits of interactivity. Certain levels like Tier Drops are absent entirely because the new engine couldn't actually handle them. The turning and running speed are way slower than the PC, PSX, or N64 versions, not to mention the loss of some of Duke's one liners, and some glitchy sound FX.

The PSX has a couple nice new levels, the new enemies are silly, but still pretty cool. But the framerate drop in the game itself can be pretty awful at times, and the controls take some major getting used to.

[nukemania]

I struggle more with the N64 controls, but that could easily just be the N64 controller issue. When using emulator, I use a PSX style gamepad and it works so well. It feels like Total Meltdown, only better.

Anyway, if you read my post, you'd see that I'm not griping about the fact that they censored the game. It's the WAY they did it.

[Jinroh]

So far I'm going to have to say the N64 version though I do miss the Freeze Thrower in that version. Everything else is rad. I say Duke 64 since that's the only version I've played besides the PC version of course. xD

I thought it was cool, that the wavy water in Toxic Dump in Duke64 was very exaggerated. (In the slime waterway right before the regular nuke button) I don't remember it being so wavy in the PC.

I'll be getting the Saturn version here in a few days or so. So I've been playing through the N64 version again so I can compare the two. Ezra Dreisbach's Slave Driver engine though is pretty rad, so I've always wanted to try the Lobotomy Duke Port first hand.

[Martin]

Ezra (lead programmer of Lobotomy Software) gives a review in 2009 to SegaSaturn.co.uk. He doesn't talk much about Duke Nukem in particular, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's around the time Death Tank came out on Xbox LIVE. Anyway, in the interview he talks a fair bit about the powerslave engine use to run Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn, and he's pretty damn frank about the Saturn hardware itself. Great interview.

[nukemania]

I personally don't see it as a parody of censorship. Besides making such analysis about a game like Duke Nukem, they just seem to have done a shitty job at it. I don't know if it's just my version of the game, but you can find the girl dancing near the fire in Abyss; and she wasn't modified. That's just one example.

[Jimmy]

I'd say the parody analysis is correct. Original uncensored tiles exist in secret areas that the Nintendo censors wouldn't have encountered. I'd bet cash Eurocom figured that the game would get flagged by the ratings board, so they changed most of the offensive material down. In my opinion, the changes are very welcome because 100% accurate ports are pointless to me, the extra additions make the game special. If you noticed, Eurocom's next Duke game on the N64 was a lot more balanced in terms of offending material, because they knew how Nintendo would react, and it was a little later in the N64's life-span where Nintendo started to lighten up.

[Fox]

Captain Awesome, on 10 January 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Original uncensored tiles exist in secret areas that the Nintendo censors wouldn't have encountered.

Which area are you talking about? As far I am concerned there is no "mature" textures anywhere.

[Jimmy]

Of course the area he mentioned, and I'm pretty sure that the secret above the entrance to the theatre in Hollywood Holocaust still has the original uncensored TV screen.

[Fox]

The TV only show a woman blinking, so I guess they decided it was not a problem, besides a giant screen with that tile appear L.A. Rumble. The dancer in The Abyss is awkward since they removed all bikinis, but she isn't technically using a bikini. And it's not worst than the edited tile of the pole dancer TV.

All "offensive" tiles have been completely erased from the cart (for example the dancer on Raw Meat). I am pretty sure they checked all tiles in the game and removed anything they tought was inappropriate. The only place which you can see one of these is in the unusued area of Movie Set, however since the tile was removed it display the SE texture (tile 0001) instead.

[nukemania]

Captain Awesome, on 10 January 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

I'd say the parody analysis is correct. Original uncensored tiles exist in secret areas that the Nintendo censors wouldn't have encountered. I'd bet cash Eurocom figured that the game would get flagged by the ratings board, so they changed most of the offensive material down. In my opinion, the changes are very welcome because 100% accurate ports are pointless to me, the extra additions make the game special. If you noticed, Eurocom's next Duke game on the N64 was a lot more balanced in terms of offending material, because they knew how Nintendo would react, and it was a little later in the N64's life-span where Nintendo started to lighten up.

You're just thinking too deep

Anyway, I believe that blinking girl on the TV is in fact very suggestive. Though my memory isn't clearest, if it's still there in LA Rumble on the big screen, why wasn't it replaced? I mean, that's not even hidden from Nintendo's view if played. What other signals does it give when a girl seductively winks at you? Besides that, the clothed stripper (who usually shows her tassled tits) still dances a bit risquée.

[OpenMaw]

nukemania, on 10 January 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

You're just thinking too deep

Not at all, actually. He's pretty much exactly right.

[nukemania]

I found the alfredh tune on Saturn Duke Nukem 3D to be downright creepy.

[thatguy]

My interest was peaked. AlfredH on Saturn definitely is a lot more Dynamic than the original. I like it.

[Hendricks266]

s.b.Newsom, on 21 January 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

My interest was peaked. AlfredH on Saturn definitely is a lot more Dynamic than the original. I like it.

shameless plug

[nukemania]

Out of curiosity:

Where in the original Duke Nukem 3D, besides Faces of Death, is the tune from E1L6 (Abyss in Saturn) played?

[Hendricks266]

In the PC game, "Ah, Geez!" is only played in E1L7 Faces of Death.

In the Saturn: (saturn_agg.def)

// INTRO MUSIC

music { id "intro"    file "highres/saturn/grabbag.ogg" }   // grabbag.ogg
music { id "briefing" file "highres/saturn/depart.ogg" }   // briefing.ogg


// EPISODE ONE

// If you hate the Saturn version of "Stalker", comment the following line. The MIDI or any other loaded music pack version will play.
music { id "E1L1"  file "highres/saturn/stalker.ogg" }   // stalker.ogg
music { id "E1L2"  file "highres/saturn/dethtoll.ogg" }   // dethtoll.ogg
music { id "E1L3"  file "highres/saturn/warehaus.ogg" }   // streets.ogg
music { id "E1L4"  file "highres/saturn/depart.ogg" }   // watrwld1.ogg
// music { id "E1L4"  file "highres/saturn/pob.ogg" }   // ***ALTERNATE***
music { id "E1L5"  file "highres/saturn/ahgeez.ogg" }   // snake1.ogg
// music { id "E1L5"  file "highres/saturn/missimp.ogg" }   // ***ALTERNATE***
music { id "E1L6"  file "highres/saturn/xplasma.ogg" }   // thecall.ogg
music { id "E1L7"  file "highres/saturn/ahgeez.ogg" }   // ahgeez.ogg
music { id "E1L8"  file "highres/saturn/dethtoll.ogg" }   // dethtoll.ogg


// EPISODE TWO

music { id "E2L1"  file "highres/saturn/gotham.ogg" }   // futurmil.ogg
music { id "E2L2"  file "highres/saturn/prepd.ogg" }   // storm.ogg
music { id "E2L3"  file "highres/saturn/whomp.ogg" }   // gutwrnch.ogg
music { id "E2L4"  file "highres/saturn/alfredh.ogg" }   // robocrep.ogg
// See above note on "Stalker".
// music { id "E2L4"  file "highres/saturn/stalker.ogg" }   // ***ALTERNATE***
music { id "E2L5"  file "highres/saturn/dethtoll.ogg" }   // stalag.ogg
music { id "E2L6"  file "highres/saturn/warehaus.ogg" }   // pizzed.ogg
music { id "E2L7"  file "highres/saturn/depart.ogg" }   // alienz.ogg
music { id "E2L8"  file "highres/saturn/ahgeez.ogg" }   // xplasma.ogg
// music { id "E2L8"  file "highres/saturn/pob.ogg" }   // ***ALTERNATE***
music { id "E2L9"  file "highres/saturn/xplasma.ogg" }   // alfredh.ogg
// music { id "E2L9"  file "highres/saturn/missimp.ogg" }   // ***ALTERNATE***
music { id "E2L10" file "highres/saturn/xplasma.ogg" }   // gloomy.ogg
music { id "E2L11" file "highres/saturn/whomp.ogg" }   // intents.ogg


// EPISODE THREE

music { id "E3L1"  file "highres/saturn/gotham.ogg" }   // inhiding.ogg
music { id "E3L2"  file "highres/saturn/prepd.ogg" }   // fatcmdr.ogg
music { id "E3L3"  file "highres/saturn/whomp.ogg" }   // names.ogg
music { id "E3L4"  file "highres/saturn/alfredh.ogg" }   // subway.ogg
// See above note on "Stalker".
music { id "E3L5"  file "highres/saturn/stalker.ogg" }   // invader.ogg
music { id "E3L6"  file "highres/saturn/dethtoll.ogg" }   // gotham.ogg
music { id "E3L7"  file "highres/saturn/warehaus.ogg" }   // 233c.ogg
// Urea 51: file "highres/saturn/urea51.ogg" 
music { id "E3L8"  file "highres/saturn/pob.ogg" }   // lordofla.ogg
music { id "E3L9"  file "highres/saturn/ahgeez.ogg" }   // urban.ogg
music { id "E3L10" file "highres/saturn/xplasma.ogg" }   // spook.ogg
music { id "E3L11" file "highres/saturn/whomp.ogg" }   // whomp.ogg


// EPISODE FOUR

music { id "E4L1"  file "highres/saturn/missimp.ogg" }   // missimp.ogg
music { id "E4L2"  file "highres/saturn/prepd.ogg" }   // prepd.ogg
music { id "E4L3"  file "highres/saturn/warehaus.ogg" }   // bakedgds.ogg
music { id "E4L4"  file "highres/saturn/dethtoll.ogg" }   // cf.ogg
music { id "E4L5"  file "highres/saturn/gotham.ogg" }   // lemchill.ogg
music { id "E4L6"  file "highres/saturn/pob.ogg" }   // pob.ogg
music { id "E4L7"  file "highres/saturn/warehaus.ogg" }   // warehaus.ogg
music { id "E4L8"  file "highres/saturn/xplasma.ogg" }   // layers.ogg
music { id "E4L9"  file "highres/saturn/alfredh.ogg" }   // floghorn.ogg
music { id "E4L10" file "highres/saturn/depart.ogg" }   // depart.ogg
music { id "E4L11" file "highres/saturn/whomp.ogg" }   // restrict.ogg

[nukemania]

Nice.

While we're on the Saturn subject, I checked your rips of the Saturn music. It seems the grabbag tune is slightly cut off at the start.

[Loke]

s.b.Newsom, on 21 January 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

My interest was peaked. AlfredH on Saturn definitely is a lot more Dynamic than the original. I like it.

Saturn Dethtoll is also way better than the original imo.

[nukemania]

Loke, on 23 January 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Saturn Dethtoll is also way better than the original imo.

I found every track better than the original.

[Hendricks266]

nukemania, on 23 January 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

While we're on the Saturn subject, I checked your rips of the Saturn music. It seems the grabbag tune is slightly cut off at the start.

I have had a new version with minor tweaks (I assume this is fixed too since I reconverted the audio from the TOSEC wavs again) ready to go for some time but I have not had a compelling reason to spend the time re-uploading it. I will do so soon.

[nukemania]

Has anyone ever... um... been to some "scene" forums? Because the exclusive E4 levels of Total Meltdown were converted, but back when I saw such topic, my interest in the Duke series was damn low for me to give a damn. But when I try to retrieve that site, it's gone now.

[Jimmy]

Right, to be honest, enough people have looked at it that I seriously can't believe you unless you can prove otherwise.

[nukemania]

Did you not read my post? Of course I cannot prove it to anyone now. It's gone. But as far as what I've seen, it has been done. I've never checked the download, so I'm not 100% that it's genuine. But the fact that the topic was not locked/deleted and got a few replies about it is quite suggestive of its validity.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, not when you can't prove the thread exists. As of right now, it's just he-said she-said stuff. Plenty of people well versed in the Build engine couldn't figure it out, how could these guys? I mean it's interesting. It would be useful if you would provide the name of the site in the very least.

[nukemania]

Am I allowed to do that here?

And just an FYI, TMD's data isn't exactly stored in the same way as DN3D. I doubt extensive knowledge on the build engine will familiarize them with how a game's data is stored on a separate console, to say the least.

[Martin]

Just putting this out there, if you guys need Saturn Duke music I can supply it from the original source (the Saturn disc). As is common with Saturn games, all the music is Redbook Audio. Interestingly, the first five tracks are Duke one-liners, at correct pitch and length. Which is odd, since in-game they are not, and not all the one-liners are there as Redbook Audio, only five. Methinks Lobotomy put those on there just for shits and giggles when people put the game into a CD player? Haha. There are only 22 audio tracks on the disc, and the last three or four are for Deathtank Zwei. I also have Quake, Exhumed, Alien Trilogy and some other shit on Saturn if anybody wants the music from those.

[Hendricks266]

duke4.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=117940'>nukemania, on 25 January 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Am I allowed to do that here?

And just an FYI, TMD's data isn't exactly stored in the same way as DN3D. I doubt extensive knowledge on the build engine will familiarize them with how a game's data is stored on a separate console, to say the least.

Pretty much anything goes here, unless it puts the future of the site or TX's AdSense account or anything like that in danger. I assure you this will cause no problems. This is a much more relaxed place than 3D Realms was is. 3D Realms never would have allowed discussion of the Duke or SW prototypes, ROMs and piracy of any sort, or me digging into the data of the DN3D and DNMP XBLA ports.

This is as much as we know about the Total Meltdown data structure: http://forums.duke4....ntent-analysis/

I once was looking for the original non-revised version of Shark's Cove to include for kicks in Vaca+ when I stumbled upon a torrent on Demonoid simply called "Duke Nukem 3D" which contained it as well as a ton of other assorted crap, including a 519 KB file named "Plug_n_Pray.zip". Unfortunately I encountered a period of internet instability soon after/when I discovered it without anything having downloaded, and when I was ready to leech the torrent it was deleted from the tracker. duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> I still have it running in µTorrent in vain hopes of encountering a peer on DHT.

duke4.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=117948'>Martin, on 25 January 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Just putting this out there, if you guys need Saturn Duke music I can supply it from the original source (the Saturn disc).

duke4.net/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=117497'>Hendricks266, on 22 January 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

shameless plug

I sourced the Saturn music from a verified perfect TOSEC rip of the game which is why I provide a lossless pack when EDuke32 does not even support FLAC. Unfortunately, with the version up at my site, I tried to remove silence at the bookends of the tracks to optimize for potential OGG loop support but I ended up doing it incorrectly so very small chunks at either end were cut off. Tomorrow I plan to upload a new version of the Saturn pack in which I redid the entire conversion process from the TOSEC wavs.

[Bloodshot]

I was really not expecting Duke3D to have the type of music it does when I first played it. I was expecting tracks like Doom, but the game had a lot of atmospheric tracks and rhythmic tracks more akin to Quake 1 and Hexen/Heretic.

What the hell, why are the saturn tracks so god damned amazing?

[Jimmy]

nukemania, on 25 January 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

And just an FYI, TMD's data isn't exactly stored in the same way as DN3D. I doubt extensive knowledge on the build engine will familiarize them with how a game's data is stored on a separate console, to say the least.

Of course it isn't, which is why no one was able to figure it out. However, it WAS built off of the Build engine, and the original mapper confirmed that it existed %100 playable on the PC. However, extensive knowledge of the build engine is the best starting point because there is no other angle you can work off of.