[Martin]

Yeah, to be fair the Saturn one is also the 'weirdest' one in just how it 'feels' to play. It's the only one that isn't running on some derivative of Build, so I think that's to be expected. Ducking isn't mapped anywhere, as someone else said it's automatic. Even when you have the NiGHTS analogue pad. That was disappointing at the time. I suppose I like it just because I remember back then that it seemed like such an upgrade from the other versions. I personally like the inertia and sense of 'flow' that it has when moving around. If I ever get a capture card, I'll up some gameplay with the analogue pad. It's no keyboard & mouse, but it's a fuck-ton better than the standard pad.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'd like to see that.

[Fox]

Serious Cacodemon, on 21 July 2011 - 06:49 AM, said:

Some of these may have already been mentioned by others earlier in the topic, but I'll list many that I know of.

It's missing rotating doors, gears and stuff, details in levels seem to be lower (understandable), Duke isn't saying quotes where he's meant to (ex. getting to the sub in Death Row, he's supposed to say "I think I'll climb aboard" when he gets there. He says nothing in the Saturn version). There's probably more I missed.

Course, those things are probably just nitpicky stuff.

The Saturn version completely rebuild the levels in a new format. Details and textures are completely different. Besides the code is also completely new, so everything works different.

[TerminX]

Yeah, it's more a completely different game based on and using assets from Duke 3D than it is a port.

[Spirrwell]

For me it'd either be between the PlayStation version and the N64 version. I never played the Saturn version, I don't own it. I personally have never had a problem with the PSX version and its controls. I loved the Nintendo 64 version with the new things that were in, but I didn't like the censorship. That is what pisses me off the most. Just look at Conker's Bad Fur Day, that was a badass game with swearing and sex appeal, why not Duke? For other people that may not be an issue, but it is to me. I think if you combined all three different games together, (from what I've seen with the Saturn version as like I said, I've never played it) you'd get a great Duke3D game. They all had flaws, they all had their greatness. I guess I'd have to go with the Nintendo 64 version.

One thing on what Hendricks said, he mentioned that the XBLA port would lose when "fixing" a post of Martin's. I agree, as all it is, it's PC Duke3D with built in YANG, assuming you want some sort of an analogy. It didn't try to change anything, it didn't try to make a game better than it is. They didn't take a risk.

[Hendricks266]

Spirrwell, on 23 July 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

One thing on what Hendricks said, he mentioned that the XBLA port would lose when "fixing" a post of Martin's. I agree, as all it is, it's PC Duke3D with built in YANG, assuming you want some sort of an analogy. It didn't try to change anything, it didn't try to make a game better than it is. They didn't take a risk.

They did change something. One sip of water adds 5 health instead of 1.

They also have a demo-recording and sharing feature, but they didn't test it well enough and it can be exploited by freezing yourself to stop the timer.

[Martin]

Relatively minor oversights, I feel! The 5 health thing isn't even an oversight. Means you spend less time drinking, more time shooting. Perhaps they could have added a health cap for health from water sources, but then that's just a limitation of the original game. I do love me some Duke on my 360. I also have the Manhattan Project for 360.

[Micky C]

Spirrwell, on 23 July 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

For me it'd either be between the PlayStation version and the N64 version. I never played the Saturn version, I don't own it. I personally have never had a problem with the PSX version and its controls. I loved the Nintendo 64 version with the new things that were in, but I didn't like the censorship. That is what pisses me off the most. Just look at Conker's Bad Fur Day, that was a badass game with swearing and sex appeal, why not Duke? For other people that may not be an issue, but it is to me. I think if you combined all three different games together, (from what I've seen with the Saturn version as like I said, I've never played it) you'd get a great Duke3D game. They all had flaws, they all had their greatness. I guess I'd have to go with the Nintendo 64 version.

One thing on what Hendricks said, he mentioned that the XBLA port would lose when "fixing" a post of Martin's. I agree, as all it is, it's PC Duke3D with built in YANG, assuming you want some sort of an analogy. It didn't try to change anything, it didn't try to make a game better than it is. They didn't take a risk.

@the first paragraph, Conker's Bad Fur Day was probably released after Duke 64, as later on nintendo eased up on the censoring as it neared the end of its lifetime as a console. This is why Duke Nukem Zero Hour got away with so much (I haven't played either game).

@the second paragraph, the XBLA port is the PC game without the benefits of polymer or even polymost, the HRP, and although this is arguably less important; no option to have mods or user maps. EDuke32 is superior in almost every way, and after the netcode becomes bug free, it will be superior in every way.

[Jimmy]

Spirrwell, on 23 July 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

For me it'd either be between the PlayStation version and the N64 version. I never played the Saturn version, I don't own it. I personally have never had a problem with the PSX version and its controls. I loved the Nintendo 64 version with the new things that were in, but I didn't like the censorship. That is what pisses me off the most. Just look at Conker's Bad Fur Day, that was a badass game with swearing and sex appeal, why not Duke? For other people that may not be an issue, but it is to me. I think if you combined all three different games together, (from what I've seen with the Saturn version as like I said, I've never played it) you'd get a great Duke3D game. They all had flaws, they all had their greatness. I guess I'd have to go with the Nintendo 64 version.

Your age is showing. You're looking at things out of context. Duke64 came out in the heyday of the N64, things were going great and games were selling just fine. However, Conkers Bad Fur Day was one of the last nine games released in North America, (Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 being absolute last in 2002, but only being a poor quick money grab port of the Playstation version. The rest were released in 2001.) Among those nine games there was a lame RPG, Dr. Mario 64, two football games, a scooter game, a Powerpuff Girls game, and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 & 3. Around the middle 1999 Nintendo began to become lax on it's guidelines as to allow more mature products to be released on their console in order to try and garner more gamers. In some respects it worked, there were a lot more games made that couldn't have previously passed censors (this is evident with Zero Hour.) So in respects, Conker was the LAST mature game released, and as such Nintendo, having a good relationship and trusting Rare, let it get by on a lot of stuff in a last ditch effort to win over on the selection of mature Playstation, Playstation 2, and Xbox games that were dominating the market. It was the last great huzzah of the N64. As well, Nintendo never formally acknowledged the game, it wasn't featured in Nintendo Power, and most of it's ads were in Playboy and adult centered television channels.

[Spirrwell]

Captain Awesome, on 23 July 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Your age is showing. You're looking at things out of context. Duke64 came out in the heyday of the N64, things were going great and games were selling just fine. However, Conkers Bad Fur Day was one of the last nine games released in North America, (Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 being absolute last in 2002, but only being a poor quick money grab port of the Playstation version. The rest were released in 2001.) Among those nine games there was a lame RPG, Dr. Mario 64, two football games, a scooter game, a Powerpuff Girls game, and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 & 3. Around the middle 1999 Nintendo began to become lax on it's guidelines as to allow more mature products to be released on their console in order to try and garner more gamers. In some respects it worked, there were a lot more games made that couldn't have previously passed censors (this is evident with Zero Hour.) So in respects, Conker was the LAST mature game released, and as such Nintendo, having a good relationship and trusting Rare, let it get by on a lot of stuff in a last ditch effort to win over on the selection of mature Playstation, Playstation 2, and Xbox games that were dominating the market. It was the last great huzzah of the N64. As well, Nintendo never formally acknowledged the game, it wasn't featured in Nintendo Power, and most of it's ads were in Playboy and adult centered television channels.

Okay, so my argument is imperfect.

[Jimmy]

No, your argument is null.

[Martin]

Another comparison video, this time featuring all three versions:

[Spirrwell]

Captain Awesome, on 25 July 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

No, your argument is null.

You're going to make me come back with a new argument, aren't you? The only game censored since Mortal Kombat II on N64 was Duke Nukem 64.(Well, that's what my research has taught me) Have you ever come to the possibility that Eurocom is the one who did the censoring? You're argument made sense to me considering you were right, Conker's Bad Fur Day came out four years after. You're argument makes sense because I made an illogical argument, and I acknowledge that. I WAS WRONG. Simple as that. So I'm not going to turn this into a debate, but I ask that you consider the possibility.

[Martin]

My take on it is this; I don't believe for a minute that Eurocom wanted to censor anything from the PC version. Mortal Kombat (not MKII) was censored by Nintendo on the SNES, it was never available on N64 (the closest N64 game to it is Mortal Kombat Trilogy, which wasn't censored). Nintendo started to relax on censoring gore after the débâcle with the original Mortal Kombat. What happened with MK was that, as was almost always the case, the SNES version was better than the Mega Drive one. However, presumably due to the lack of gore (the major reason why MK became so popular so quickly), the Mega Drive version outsold the SNES one massively regardless of being technically-inferior. This was shocking for Nintendo since they had a much bigger market share, and it was deemed unacceptable for the smaller competitor to win on the year's largest game by such a huge margin.

From then on, Nintendo allowed previously barred content if it was deemed central/important to the game. In practice, this basically meant that gore was not cut from big releases where competition between platforms was fierce. Nintendo neutered MK for the SNES, and as a result the game performed very badly at retail for that platform. They would no longer impose such stifling censorship. Thus, all the sequels to MK arrived on SNES without censorship.

Duke Nukem 64 is one of the only notable post-SNES games which was censored for the Nintendo platform (another one I can think of was 2000's Carmageddon 64), even though versions were being released for the other two major competitors. Although Nintendo by this point wouldn't really stand in the way of any gore (by 1997 there were government ratings boards doing this job for videogames), the 'adult' content (strippers, drugs, beer - all the vices) was considered 'too much', and though lessened, Nintendo still had a content protocol games had to get through before they were 'cleared'.

I suppose it's possible that Nintendo themselves never made any demands on the game. Eurocom, knowing Nintendo's approval protocols may have cut that content before Nintendo had a chance to look at it and say "no". I imagine at the earliest stage of development this process would have taken place. It would have cost time and money to get the game ready for launch uncut, and then have to go and cut-replace a whole bunch of stuff. Regardless, if this is how it went, Eurocom still can't really be blamed.

[Jimmy]

Spirrwell, on 26 July 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

You're going to make me come back with a new argument, aren't you? The only game censored since Mortal Kombat II on N64 was Duke Nukem 64.(Well, that's what my research has taught me) Have you ever come to the possibility that Eurocom is the one who did the censoring? You're argument made sense to me considering you were right, Conker's Bad Fur Day came out four years after. You're argument makes sense because I made an illogical argument, and I acknowledge that. I WAS WRONG. Simple as that. So I'm not going to turn this into a debate, but I ask that you consider the possibility.

There is no point for a new argument, you were wrong. Stop trying to be right all the time. Why would Eurocom censor Duke64 and then make Zero Hour less censored? Do you habitually smoke crack, because you are constantly saying really stupid shit?

[Hendricks266]

Captain Awesome, on 26 July 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Stop trying to be right all the time.

There's nothing wrong with being correct, but I think what Cap'n is trying to say is that he thinks it's annoying when you try to have the last word.

[thelegend4ever]

Def Total Meltdown first, followed by DN64. The PSX version just retained the raunchiness of it's PC counterpart, with, to me anyways, a much better soundtrack. Someone mentioned that they felt like the OST was trying to cater to a new crowd, and they're basically right. It was because Europe wanted an much more upbeat soundtrack instead of the death rock music the original PC game had. Anyways, it was basically an exact 100% port of DN3D, albeit with fuzzed out graphics and a somewhat slower framerate. But the game was still fun as hell to play. I even play the PSX's OST on my 360 whenever I play Duke 3D. So much better. Total Meltdown is just a classic IMHO.

The N64 version is def good when it comes to multiplayer, though I much rather prefer Zero Hour's....but the co-op is pretty decent. I thought it was alittle weird seeing how much was censored and changed around in that port, eventhough some of the new weapons were pretty badass (explosive shells). Not to mention the lack of music, save for Grabbag, just hurt the game for me. The graphics, however, are much better than the PSX and Saturn versions....despite it being "brighter". Overall, it's a good game, but TT is still the better game to me.

Saturn version is shit. Bottome line. I had it when it was first released, and I still regret getting that port. I didn't like the new engine, and hated the fact that you had to PAUSE the game each time you wanted to use an item. That just slowed down the pace too much for me.

PSX all the way for me.

[Martin]

I'd really like to play Total Meltdown. I might get it for my PS3. Is the new episode actually any good?

[Jimmy]

thelegend4ever, on 28 July 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

Def Total Meltdown first, followed by DN64. The PSX version just retained the raunchiness of it's PC counterpart, with, to me anyways, a much better soundtrack. Someone mentioned that they felt like the OST was trying to cater to a new crowd, and they're basically right. It was because Europe wanted an much more upbeat soundtrack instead of the death rock music the original PC game had.

lolwut?

Martin, on 28 July 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'd really like to play Total Meltdown. I might get it for my PS3. Is the new episode actually any good?

It's not too bad. The first level is a bitch, and the second or third level is pretty boring. The rest are good stuff though.

[necroslut]

I like the saturn version the best, despite the missing moving sectors and the idiotic decision to not have a crouch button. The lighting even looks better than polymer to me, or maybe it just fits better with the low res textures. The PSX version's new episode is kinda nice, but the framerate is really unacceptable to me. Finishing that version wasn't very fun.
The N64 is fun as well, especially with the split screen, but it just seems too different (which pretty much is what makes it interesting though). That they removed the girls in one level didn't really bother me at all.

Captain Awesome, on 26 July 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

There is no point for a new argument, you were wrong. Stop trying to be right all the time. Why would Eurocom censor Duke64 and then make Zero Hour less censored? Do you habitually smoke crack, because you are constantly saying really stupid shit?

To me it seems like it was GT that wanted to tone the game down to go better with the N64's "younger playerbase". That kind of stuff is still done today, with Duke Nukem Critical Mass for example.

[Micky C]

necroslut, on 29 July 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

To me it seems like it was GT that wanted to tone the game down to go better with the N64's "younger playerbase". That kind of stuff is still done today, with Duke Nukem Critical Mass for example.

Critical Mass is censored? What did they do, take out all the fun and good graphics?

[Martin]

necroslut, on 29 July 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

To me it seems like it was GT that wanted to tone the game down to go better with the N64's "younger playerbase". That kind of stuff is still done today, with Duke Nukem Critical Mass for example.

Whether it was because of Nintendo or not, the big irony with Duke Nukem 64 is that regardless of all the censorship, it was still slapped with a BBFC 18 in the UK and M for Mature in the US - because of the gore. That's what makes it a double-shame that they ever did censor it at all. If it had garnered a lower rating, then fair enough I suppose. It did not, and thus the censorship achieved nothing but diluting a lot of the character out of the game.

Captain Awesome, on 28 July 2011 - 12:40 PM, said:

It's not too bad. The first level is a bitch, and the second or third level is pretty boring. The rest are good stuff though.

Just out of interest; has anyone ripped that episode from the PlayStation disc and tried loading it up in EDuke32?

[Hendricks266]

Martin, on 29 July 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Just out of interest; has anyone ripped that episode from the PlayStation disc and tried loading it up in EDuke32?

It's not possible. It's been encrypted or converted in some way.

[Jimmy]

Martin, on 29 July 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Whether it was because of Nintendo or not, the big irony with Duke Nukem 64 is that regardless of all the censorship, it was still slapped with a BBFC 18 in the UK and M for Mature in the US - because of the gore. That's what makes it a double-shame that they ever did censor it at all. If it had garnered a lower rating, then fair enough I suppose. It did not, and thus the censorship achieved nothing but diluting a lot of the character out of the game.

In America, violence is perfectly acceptable.

[necroslut]

Micky C, on 29 July 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

Critical Mass is censored? What did they do, take out all the fun and good graphics?

Not censored, but toned down compared to the older Duke games and even the scrapped PSP version.

[Fox]

Martin, on 29 July 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Just out of interest; has anyone ripped that episode from the PlayStation disc and tried loading it up in EDuke32?

Yes, a lot of people tried it.

The .pmp files use file size is much bigger than the *.map files of the PC game (however there is some proportion). I am not sure if there is supposed to be something else inside these files other than the .map files, i.e. graphics.

[Martin]

So there's essentially a file-format issue with the PlayStation game? Is it just that the formats are unknown, and therefore you can't see anything when you look at them?

[TerminX]

Pretty much. Since the size of the individual level files on the disc is so large compared to their PC counterparts, my theory is that all of the individual textures used in the maps are present in the maps themselves instead of being loaded from a separate art file as a way to better work within the PSX's 2 MB RAM.

[Jimmy]

Although we do know that all of it's resources actually existed in a vanilla PC Duke3D format at SOME point. The mapper for the new episode said he had a complete version on a zipdisk in his parent's attic. He said he was gonna look for it and we never heard from him again.

[Hendricks266]

Nacho and I have contacting the Plug 'N' Pray mapper on our list of projects. There's nothing to report yet.