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Duke Nukem Forever 1 month anniversary  "How do you feel about the game after all this time?"

User is offline   Martin 

#91

Well, just because you say so doesn't make it true. I don't really encounter any of those things when I play Bad Company 2 on hardcore. As for bullet damage, what do you expect? It's hardcore. You have less health. On hardcore, I've done the thing you talk about where I'm set upon, turn and kill my attacker. All I can say is don't stand there like a lemon when you're being shot at. Let's imagine that what you say is true - what would be your solution? Every game play exactly like Counter-Strike, or for there to be no games other than Counter-Strike? Maybe the problem is you.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#92

View PostMartin, on 17 July 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

Well, just because you say so doesn't make it true.


I don't understand. Which of the points I made is incorrect?

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On hardcore, I've done the thing you talk about where I'm set upon, turn and kill my attacker.


And I've done that in CoD HC where it's least likely to happen. So what's your point? If I say that the chance of winning in a lottery is 0,0001% (one in a million), will you attempt to disprove that by saying that someone once won in a lottery?

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Let's imagine that what you say is true - what would be your solution? Every game play exactly like Counter-Strike, or for there to be no games other than Counter-Strike? Maybe the problem is you.


Eh, I simply stated that the HC mode is the noob mode, not that it should be fixed. Obviously the rest of us only benefit if the noob avoids vanilla servers.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#93

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 17 July 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

Precisely because it makes killing so much easier. It encourages camping. Even a noob can kill a player that passes by. Compare this to, say, Counter-Strike, a game that I've always thought requires quite a bit of skill. In CS, if a noob is hiding in some corner and tries to kill a player by shooting him in the back there's a very good chance the noob doesn't survive the encounter if the one he's trying to kill is of higher skill level. In CoD games and BF's HC mode the noob has a much better chance to survive. No killcam is obviously a huge part of the problem because it protects campers by not revealing their location.

Of course it's even worse in CoD than in BF because assault rifles have hardly any recoil in CoD. I'm afraid this will be a factor in BF3, judging by the videos that have been released so far. In fact, BFBC2: Vietnam was already a step toward CoD-like weapon behavior.

The very worst example of this is Medal of Honor, a game with no recoil, high damage and no killcam. Everyone camps.

But camping is part of a shooter game. Or at least, like it would be in real life, a soldier can't just run around the enemy base. It's not like campers are invencible either. Actually they are quite easy to spot, since they don't change location. Besides camping spots are previsibles. Or at least I don't have problem with campers, I even like it, since I find them relatively easy to kill.

The same would be with rocket or grenade launchers. A lot of players get really pissed off by it, but I always found them easy to kill. In Bad Company 2 rockets take a while to fire, besides if someone trying to fire a rocket is hit, he will miss the target. And the most important, rockets leave a huge smoke trail, it's useless to fire if everyone will know where you are. And it's not like they are overpowered, each player upon registration is given a rocket or grenade launcher, and these gadgets have many weak points.

This post has been edited by Fox: 17 July 2011 - 08:24 AM

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#94

View PostFox, on 17 July 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

But camping is part of a shooter game. Or at least, like it would be in real life, a soldier can't just run around the enemy base.


Well this isn't real life, now is it? This is a videogame. If a videogame sacrifices the fun factor by making camping easy for a more "Realistic" bullshit experience, then that kind of defeats the purpose of making a game. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that camping takes little skill to do and is no fun to fight.

This post has been edited by BraveTriforcer: 17 July 2011 - 08:50 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#95

Doom is better.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#96

View PostFox, on 17 July 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

It's not like campers are invencible either. Actually they are quite easy to spot, since they don't change location. Besides camping spots are previsibles. Or at least I don't have problem with campers, I even like it, since I find them relatively easy to kill.


The problem is that camping "spots" are not really spots at all. This is actually a much bigger problem in CoD(HC)/MoH because the maps are more narrow and as such there are less ways to flank campers. In BFBC2 maps are of course bigger so camping rarely pays off, especially in vanilla where a camper's location is instantly revealed by the killcam. (Camping of course can pay off big time when you play Rush as a sniper or as a UAV operator when your team attacks; you can get ridiculous stats by playing like this as the screenshots show.) But even if BFBC2 HC is less noob friendly than CoD HC it's still clearly more noob friendly than BFBC2 vanilla.

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And it's not like they are overpowered, each player upon registration is given a rocket or grenade launcher, and these gadgets have many weak points.


At least Carl-Gustav is ridiculously overpowered if used as an anti-infantry weapon (that's what it is there for).
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

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#97

View PostBraveTriforcer, on 17 July 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

Well this isn't real life, now is it? This is a videogame. If a videogame sacrifices the fun factor by making camping easy for a more "Realistic" bullshit experience, then that kind of defeats the purpose of making a game. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that camping takes little skill to do and is no fun to fight.


What little skill it may require, it is still an effective tactic in CS, more effective than just going gung-ho into battle with guns blazing where you are almost SURE to be killed. Why avoid using a tactic simply because other people frown upon it?
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User is offline   Martin 

#98

I just don't get how it's "noob friendly". It's harder. It's not like you can't kill someone in normal mode with a couple of bullets, because you can. I get the distinct impression that you're somehow butthurt that you die a lot on hardcore, thus brand that mode "noob friendly" to quell your own sour grapes. Saying that more health cures these supposed issues just seems retarded to me. Just means you have more health. The camper has more health, too. And if you need people to have big glowing red triangles on their heads to see them, go to the opticians. Killcams? I don't need them. I don't mind them when they're there, but I can go without them for the sake of playing hardcore, which takes more skill to do well. Because it's harder :(
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#99

You're talking to me as if I have never tried the HC mode or tried but sucked. Neither is true. I can easily top the scoreboard pretty much any time I want (it's simply a matter of mental attitude). But, compared to the vanilla mode, it's more random which makes it easier for noobs. It's not harder; it's simply more random.

I have no trouble distinguishing enemies from my own but spotting makes the game more a team effort because most of the time you spot enemies for others to kill, not for yourself. Btw, spotting also works against camping noobs because stationary targets (shown on the map if spotted) are easy prey.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#100

The more variables you add into a situation, the more difficult it becomes. If it takes more bullets, it becomes harder by statistics alone. One hit kills are lame bullshit.
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User is offline   Nuked 

#101

Back in the day DN3D was my favorite game. At the time is was better than DOOM and Wolf3D. (You need to go back 10 years to know what I mean).
I bought 'Duke it out in DC', Carribean, etc and loved them.
Since I then I got into GTA games in sandbox worlds. So my taste changed.

To be honest I expected more world to explore in DNF, I didn't expect doors to close behind me.
Yes my expectations were high when I bought 'DNF:Balls of steel' and I from the various videos I knew what I was going to play, and more.

Sadly, I played the game and like 95% of the gaming world, was left disapointed. I'm a SP type of gamer. So that could be part of the problem. Meh, dunno. But I feel as the money I spent on the game was a waste. After 14 years I thought the game would amaze me.

So awaits free DLC to expand the game I purchased and I'm not just talking more scripted levels either!
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#102

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 17 July 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

At least Carl-Gustav is ridiculously overpowered if used as an anti-infantry weapon (that's what it is there for).

That's not true. If you search about the weapon data, the Carl Gustav has a greater blast radius and less damage when compared to the RPG7, thus it's clearly a weapon also meant to be used against infrantry. And it's not overpower, or at least not for me. As I said, I find the users relatively easy to kill.
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User is offline   Martin 

#103

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 17 July 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

You're talking to me as if I have never tried the HC mode or tried but sucked. Neither is true. I can easily top the scoreboard pretty much any time I want (it's simply a matter of mental attitude). But, compared to the vanilla mode, it's more random which makes it easier for noobs. It's not harder; it's simply more random.


I simply disagree. I find vanilla mode easy, and hardcore mode more of a challenge.

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 17 July 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

I have no trouble distinguishing enemies from my own but spotting makes the game more a team effort because most of the time you spot enemies for others to kill, not for yourself. Btw, spotting also works against camping noobs because stationary targets (shown on the map if spotted) are easy prey.


But you can spot in Hardcore, people just need to check their maps. If you're playing Hardcore and not spotting just because it doesn't do the magical red floating triangle, you're a bad player. If your squad/team aren't spotting on Hardcore, they're bad players.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#104

I find the Hardcore mode relatively easier. Everybody gets more kills in less time. But like Mikko said, it do increase camping.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#105

View PostFox, on 17 July 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

That's not true. If you search about the weapon data, the Carl Gustav has a greater blast radius and less damage when compared to the RPG7, thus it's clearly a weapon also meant to be used against infrantry. And it's not overpower, or at least not for me. As I said, I find the users relatively easy to kill.


This is what I said; it's an anti-infantry weapon.

I also didn't suggest that I get killed a lot by people carrying CGs. On the contrary, I have platted the weapon and it was maybe the easiest platinum to get because CG is so ridiculously overpowered.

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I simply disagree. I find vanilla mode easy, and hardcore mode more of a challenge.


As I already explained, this is because noobs get to kill you more because the HC mode encourages the kind of gameplay that noobs are familiar with. Getting shot in the back more often doesn't mean the game is harder. It simply means the game is more random.

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If you're playing Hardcore and not spotting just because it doesn't do the magical red floating triangle, you're a bad player.


I spot on instinct so there's no chance of me not spotting.
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#106

WOW! I've missed a lot.

I'm sad the 3DR homepage wasn't updated to say DNF was released :( That being said I'm warming up to the Multiplayer a little.
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User is offline   DavoX 

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#107

A little bit off topic, aren't we all?
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#108

The topic itself lost its momentum.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#109

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 13 July 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

Which still goes along with my point. Gearbox didn't take the time to record that stuff.

Just to back myself up here:


He didn't record his lines until Triptych took over.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 19 July 2011 - 11:18 AM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#110

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 19 July 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

He didn't record his lines until Triptych took over.

He's mistaken somewhere since there was no Triptych Games in 2008.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#111

He just mistook the date. If 3DR was still doing it, I'm pretty sure he would have said something about that. The Non-Disclosure agreement goes along with it as well, because Triptych was technically finishing the game illegally.
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User is offline   DavoX 

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#112

As he said "Read between the lines"
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#113

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 18 July 2011 - 10:18 AM, said:

As I already explained, this is because noobs get to kill you more because the HC mode encourages the kind of gameplay that noobs are familiar with. Getting shot in the back more often doesn't mean the game is harder. It simply means the game is more random.

Well, it's not like Bad Company 2 style of gameplay disencourage camping.

If you are running and firing with an Assault Rifle your firepower will be ridiculous and unrealistic weak, to the point wasting an entire magazine can't kill an idle enemy at 5 feet right in front of you. On the other hand if you fire in bursts, zoom, stop moving or crouch your firepower will get exponentially more powerfull, and using all of these give you a 101% chance to kill anyone using just a pistol.

I myself don't like this style very much, since the game looses it's dynamic. However most of modern games follow that, since in real life it works kind of like that. That way there is no Rambo in the battlefield, instead you expect the player to act like a SWAT squad moving.

This post has been edited by Fox: 22 July 2011 - 09:01 AM

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User is offline   Martin 

#114

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 18 July 2011 - 10:18 AM, said:

As I already explained, this is because noobs get to kill you more because the HC mode encourages the kind of gameplay that noobs are familiar with. Getting shot in the back more often doesn't mean the game is harder. It simply means the game is more random.


You're acting like I haven't read what you've posted, and you're posting like you haven't read mine. I do not find that the game plays like that, hence my disagreement. Your experience of Hardcore isn't the same as mine. I run n' gun, and find the game more of a challenge. Accept that.
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#115

The game is overall a lot of fun. I had a great time during my first campaign playthrough, but only the last few Dam levels felt like what DNF should have been. The shooting mechanics are awesome but there aren't enough "normal" battle encounters in the levels. I would have appreciated the platforming and puzzles more if the game had more fun shooting levels, or if they were more seamlessly integrated into gameplay a la Half Life 2. It felt too much like "Hey! Now you have to jump for a while!" rather than a natural part of the game's progression. Also, the multiplayer is barrels of fun.

That being said, I play on the PC. I had the pleasure of trying the 360 version today and it sucks all kinds of ass. Good job 2k on sending out copies of the 360 version for review and good job Gearbox for holding back the pc release for the craptastic 360 port.

Imagine if DNF was temporarily PC exclusive while the ports were finished...the game might have actually gotten good reviews. For instance, look at the PC Gamer review. It called out some of the Frankenstein flaws of the game but made it clear that the game was enjoyable. Either that or it would have gotten railed by the media anyway and the console gamers would have never touched it.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#116

Another thing that bothered me and I haven't heard much about was the underwater bit. This isn't fucking Powerslave, gimme some scuba gear, not some bubbles.
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User is offline   DavoX 

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#117

I loved the shooting and the ambience of the ghost town, enemies were well planned and the music acompanied the ambience quite well. Specially when you kill the big pigcop.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#118

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 22 July 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

Another thing that bothered me and I haven't heard much about was the underwater bit. This isn't fucking Powerslave, gimme some scuba gear, not some bubbles.



That's what I was thinking: where's the scuba gear? Yet ANOTHER thing that they couldn't bother adding from Duke 3D. Honestly, it's like they were TRYING to make the game as different as possible. The developers probably thought "well we had this stuff in Duke 3D 16 years ago... so people won't want to do it all over again..." Posted Image

View PostDavoX, on 22 July 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

I loved the shooting and the ambience of the ghost town, enemies were well planned and the music acompanied the ambience quite well. Specially when you kill the big pigcop.


The ambiance was great, the background music was perfect, Duke made one of the funniest one liners there, but the god damn 2 weapon limit ruined it for me! It should have been the funnest level, but instead there were problems like my damn shotgun not having enough range to hit the high up pigcops, and my chaingun was low on ammo, so while they were shooting at me I had to search around for another weapon. Shrinker was useless if they're on platforms, and enforcer and RPG only has 5 friggin shots. It completely broke up the flow and the fun of the level.

2 weapon limit + shit all ammo for each weapon = Posted Image

Honestly, that was probably the level where the 2 weapon system felt most limiting and most frustrating, probably because it's one of the oldest DNF level concepts that survived, and therefore had less linear gameplay. I was frustrated by the 2 weapon limit at other times as well. The chaingun fires super fast so it has to reload like every five seconds, which is pretty annoying. In Duke 3D you could just fire that bad boy non-stop. I hope in the next game, they'll get rid of weapon reloading all together except for the pistol, just like it was in Duke 3D.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 22 July 2011 - 03:21 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#119

View PostDavoX, on 22 July 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

I loved the shooting and the ambience of the ghost town, enemies were well planned and the music acompanied the ambience quite well. Specially when you kill the big pigcop.

Funnily enough, that's one of the oldest parts of the game!

View PostMicky C, on 22 July 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

That's what I was thinking: where's the scuba gear? Yet ANOTHER thing that they couldn't bother adding from Duke 3D. Honestly, it's like they were TRYING to make the game as different as possible. The developers probably thought "well we had this stuff in Duke 3D 16 years ago... so people won't want to do it all over again..." Posted Image

I've noticed that as well, hardly everything that made Duke original in Duke3D has been stripped out. There is a severe lack of inventory items, and the Duke-glasses are incredibly lame. Nightvision Goggles are cooler. Speaking of which, why is Duke being cast like Batman? With all silly gadgets and his own "Duke-Cave?" It comes off really hokey.

Another thing that bugs me is the 'zoom' feature. They should have just implemented iron-sights with a slight zoom/extra focus. Duke is a weapons expert, any weapons expert knows when hipshooting just doesn't cut it, even Rambo doesn't run-n-gun all day. That would have actually been a favorable cater to console-tards.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 22 July 2011 - 04:22 PM

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User is offline   DavoX 

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#120

View PostMicky C, on 22 July 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

That's what I was thinking: where's the scuba gear? Yet ANOTHER thing that they couldn't bother adding from Duke 3D. Honestly, it's like they were TRYING to make the game as different as possible. The developers probably thought "well we had this stuff in Duke 3D 16 years ago... so people won't want to do it all over again..." Posted Image



The ambiance was great, the background music was perfect, Duke made one of the funniest one liners there, but the god damn 2 weapon limit ruined it for me! It should have been the funnest level, but instead there were problems like my damn shotgun not having enough range to hit the high up pigcops, and my chaingun was low on ammo, so while they were shooting at me I had to search around for another weapon. Shrinker was useless if they're on platforms, and enforcer and RPG only has 5 friggin shots. It completely broke up the flow and the fun of the level.

2 weapon limit + shit all ammo for each weapon = Posted Image

Honestly, that was probably the level where the 2 weapon system felt most limiting and most frustrating, probably because it's one of the oldest DNF level concepts that survived, and therefore had less linear gameplay. I was frustrated by the 2 weapon limit at other times as well. The chaingun fires super fast so it has to reload like every five seconds, which is pretty annoying. In Duke 3D you could just fire that bad boy non-stop. I hope in the next game, they'll get rid of weapon reloading all together except for the pistol, just like it was in Duke 3D.


Weird, I remember there being like 4 instances of Rippers, 3 pipebombs, etc... There was plenty of ammo for me. Or maybe you should've used the barrels and throw them at the enemies :(
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