[Fox]

Micky C, on 22 July 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

Honestly, that was probably the level where the 2 weapon system felt most limiting and most frustrating, probably because it's one of the oldest DNF level concepts that survived, and therefore had less linear gameplay. I was frustrated by the 2 weapon limit at other times as well. The chaingun fires super fast so it has to reload like every five seconds, which is pretty annoying. In Duke 3D you could just fire that bad boy non-stop. I hope in the next game, they'll get rid of weapon reloading all together except for the pistol, just like it was in Duke 3D.

The reloading itself is not the problem, the problem is that the firing/realoading is unbalanced. The Shotgun is powerfull, but doesn't compensate the reload, and the Ripper clip was like 20 bullets? It looked like they were trying to make an Assault Rifle out of the Ripper...

[Micky C]

DavoX, on 22 July 2011 - 04:31 PM, said:

Weird, I remember there being like 4 instances of Rippers, 3 pipebombs, etc... There was plenty of ammo for me. Or maybe you should've used the barrels and throw them at the enemies

It's not a matter of there not being enough ammo around, heck, there are infinite ammo crates. The problem is that the weapons themselves hardly hold any ammo.The shotgun for instance holds almost half of what it did before, and the RPG holds only 10%. And it wouldn't be a problem if you ran out of ammo if you had other weapons to switch to, but you don't.

Fox, on 22 July 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

The reloading itself is not the problem, the problem is that the firing/realoading is unbalanced. The Shotgun is powerfull, but doesn't compensate the reload, and the Ripper clip was like 20 bullets? It looked like they were trying to make an Assault Rifle out of the Ripper...

Yeah, actually that's it, I didn't realize that. I think the ripper's clip is 50 but it fires quickly so it seems like less? Don't hold me to that though. The shotgun is only powerful at basically point blank rage, it loses a LOT of power over distance which although is realistic, it's not fun considering the shotgun is one of Duke's primary weapons. That's why the cruzer shotgun in DukePlus which also only holds 8 shots is so much more fun, it actually has a decent range and you don't have to get right up to enemies before running out of bullets and being vulnerable while you reload like in DNF.

[MusicallyInspired]

Captain Awesome, on 22 July 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

Another thing that bugs me is the 'zoom' feature. They should have just implemented iron-sights with a slight zoom/extra focus. Duke is a weapons expert, any weapons expert knows when hipshooting just doesn't cut it, even Rambo doesn't run-n-gun all day. That would have actually been a favorable cater to console-tards.

No way! Screw iron sights! I loved the zoom.

However, I would have gladly traded it for a full weapon arsenal.

[Jimmy]

I thought the zoom was stupid. How exactly is he zooming? Either way, my point wasn't to remove the zoom, but to merge it with iron sights. Iron sights would make it a lot less WTF to me then just zooming in without a scope or anything.

[Fox]

Iron sights sucks. Modern developers love to use them, but they still suck.

[Micky C]

Captain Awesome, on 22 July 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

I thought the zoom was stupid. How exactly is he zooming? Either way, my point wasn't to remove the zoom, but to merge it with iron sights. Iron sights would make it a lot less WTF to me then just zooming in without a scope or anything.

How exactly does Duke jump as high as he does in Duke 3D or run as fast? Duke's not meant to be realistic or conformist.

I loved the zoom, and when I went back to Duke 3D I really missed the zoom feature.

[Kathy]

Micky C, on 22 July 2011 - 09:10 PM, said:

How exactly does Duke jump as high as he does in Duke 3D or run as fast? Duke's not meant to be realistic or conformist.

Duke jumps and runs because he uses his legs. Zoom feature have no explanation.

[Micky C]

I always thought it was something to do with his sunglasses refracting the light at will. Dukevision would also have something to do with his sunglasses (pretty ironic huh..) but for all we know they could be high tech glasses.

[MusicallyInspired]

You don't need to explain it. Not everything NEEDS to be explained in a game. That kind of realism is overrated.

[LkMax]

I've only played the full version of Duke Forever in the past few days (I was waiting for a promo and decided to pick it up in this "summer camp sales" steam promoted). So here is what bothered me the most:

- Duke can only carry two guns, and most of the "different" or "cool" weapons are not effective against all enemies, and to make the situation worst, the ammo capacity is too low and ammo crates are very rare to find. I simply can't enjoy my awesome Devastator because I always run out of ammo very quickly, except in some boss fights;

- The levels are extremely linear. There's simple no exploration possible. The levels sometimes give the impression that they are not linear, like in the road levels, but if you try to go through another way either you'll find nothing (e.g the open desert levels) or will be forced to go back, or will die out of air becouse you have no fu**ing scuba gear (underwater levels);

- Aparently duke have a much younger appearance but an older physical condition. Why duke get breathless so easy? After a short run I have to slow down again, and he's only caring two guns and much less ammo now;

- The gameplay is unbalanced. I like puzzles and puzzle games like Portal, World of Goo, etc... but when I play a shooter I expect to play most part of the game shooting something (specially if the developer says bullshits like "we are bringing old scool back" in other words). DNF have remote controled car, lame physic-based puzzles, driver levels and plataform levels with a shrunken Duke, witch some of them are fun, but they forgot to addicionate more... much more action;

- Speaking about puzzles, with all his past adventures (Duke Nukem 1, Duke Nukem, 2, Duke Nukem Manhattan Project, and so on) they could've improved duke's abilities in his FPS games to make the platform puzzles more fun to play.

- Instead of improving the migth boot they removed it, only using it in scripted scenes and to kill a enemy after shrink him.
- No Jetpack in Single-Player. My favorite item in Duke 3D.
- Regenerative health. Bad but acceptable. I have few choices today.

Those are the things I remember now.

Good things:

+ Some moments of fun with duke and his old enemies and guns;
+ The game is not too short like some shooters nowadays;
+ uh... at least they released it?

[OpenMaw]

Micky C, on 22 July 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

it loses a LOT of power over distance which although is realistic,

*cough* http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu *cough*

I'm simply a messanger.

[Kathy]

MusicallyInspired, on 23 July 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

You don't need to explain it. Not everything NEEDS to be explained in a game. That kind of realism is overrated.

It's just a game zoom for better aiming.

[Mad Max RW]

Even Quake 1 had zoom. You had to bind it to a key through the console, but it was still there.

[Jimmy]

And that's my issue, it's still the same basic zooming of Quake and the like. I don't like that Duke Nukem Forever has opted to be mediocre nine times of out ten.

[Martin]

I liked the zoom.

[Mad Max RW]

In related news, Mike Capps (president of Epic) admits Bulletstorm didn't make them any money. To put this in perspective, Bulletstorm's sales numbers were still much higher than DNF's.

[Micky C]

I guess it didn't do well because it had no multiplayer modes, and people though they wouldn't play the singleplayer campaign more than once. It's funny, before I got DNF, I thought I was going to play the singleplayer campaign every day for several months after release, exploring amazing levels, trying to look for secret areas, kicking alien ass. Now, I can't spend 5 minutes in the game without getting bored or frustrated, or both.

[Tea Monster]

No MP modes? The whole point of that game (from what I heard in ads) was that you invented cool new ways to off people. Who at Epic thought to skimp on the MP for that? I was going to buy it JUST for the multiplayer. You can tell that Epic have lost it big-style and turned into one-hit wonders.

[DavoX]

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 05:06 AM, said:

In related news, Mike Capps (president of Epic) admits Bulletstorm didn't make them any money. To put this in perspective, Bulletstorm's sales numbers were still much higher than DNF's.

You do realize it took more money to make than DNF right? Also in the first month, it sold roughly 300.000 units when DNF had 700.000. If I'm not mistaken Bulletstorm isn't even on Steam, so it doesn't have sales over there, while DNF does.

[LkMax]

Tea Monster, on 24 July 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

No MP modes? The whole point of that game (from what I heard in ads) was that you invented cool new ways to off people. Who at Epic thought to skimp on the MP for that? I was going to buy it JUST for the multiplayer. You can tell that Epic have lost it big-style and turned into one-hit wonders.

The funny thing is that the first time I saw this game I thought it was going to be a multiplayer focused game. Actually it had potential to have a good MP mode.

DavoX, on 24 July 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

You do realize it took more money to make than DNF right? Also in the first month, it sold roughly 300.000 units when DNF had 700.000. If I'm not mistaken Bulletstorm isn't even on Steam, so it doesn't have sales over there, while DNF does.

What? You don't use Steam too much, right?
http://store.steampo...d.com/app/99810

[Mad Max RW]

DavoX, on 24 July 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

You do realize it took more money to make than DNF right? Also in the first month, it sold roughly 300.000 units when DNF had 700.000. If I'm not mistaken Bulletstorm isn't even on Steam, so it doesn't have sales over there, while DNF does.

Do you actually know the development costs for both games? How about the millions more spent hyping DNF? Traveling around the world hosting elaborate Duke Nukem events wasn't cheap. Don't forgot to factor in how much Gearbox spent acquiring the IP in the first place on top of hiring the Triptych team and outsourcing Piranha.

And Bulletstorm IS on Steam. Next time I suggest checking your facts before hitting the post button.

Epic can get away with a flop because they make most of their fortune licensing every iteration of the Unreal Engine. Gearbox does not have that luxury.

[DavoX]

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

Do you actually know the development costs for both games? How about the millions more spent hyping DNF? Traveling around the world hosting elaborate Duke Nukem events wasn't cheap. Don't forgot to factor in how much Gearbox spent acquiring the IP in the first place on top of hiring the Triptych team and outsourcing Piranha.

You talk as if Epic didn't hype Bulletstorm as well.

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

And Bulletstorm IS on Steam. Next time I suggest checking your facts before hitting the post button.

I did check, apparently it isn't available in my region, hence why it didn't show up on the search. My bad.

Here :



I'm guessing you need a translation, it says "Oops sorry, That article isn't available in your region."

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

Epic can get away with a flop because they make most of their fortune licensing every iteration of the Unreal Engine. Gearbox does not have that luxury.

That isn't what we're discussing here, right?

Also, I didn't see you replying me to that 300 k units from Bulletstorm and 700 k from DNF on the first month of both games.

[thelegend4ever]

Mikko_Sandt, on 19 July 2011 - 10:20 AM, said:

The topic itself lost its momentum.

I guess I misunderstood something, or I am misundertanding something. Oh well. I think he sounds best in those Jace Hall "leaked" videos regardless.

[thelegend4ever]

Fuck...I was trying to respond to Captain Awesome. My bad

[Mad Max RW]

Epic did hype Bulletstorm, but not nearly as much as Gearbox did with DNF. The biggest investment they made was the repeating commercial on tv. Gearbox took over two PAX events, as well as multiple other software events around the world, and hosted special DNF parties for the press, and multiple tv commercials. There was a daily saturation of marketing hype, the likes of which you rarely see.

The reason I didn't reply to the 300k sales is the number is bogus. I'm not sure what Mike Capps is referring to. The Xbox 360 version alone sold over 600,000 copies in the first month. Combined totals are little more than DNF. Epic can afford that, Gearbox and its publishers cannot.

Also, I'd like you to show me the proof Bulletstorm cost more to develop than DNF. That's one hell of a claim you made earlier.

[Micky C]

Just because Epic didn't make any money, doesn't mean they lost money either. They probably came out a little bit ahead but nothing to get excited about.

[DavoX]

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

The reason I didn't reply to the 300k sales is the number is bogus. I'm not sure what Mike Capps is referring to.

Well you shouldn't post bogus articles I guess then.

Mad Max RW, on 24 July 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

The Xbox 360 version alone sold over 600,000 copies in the first month. Combined totals are little more than DNF. Epic can afford that, Gearbox and its publishers cannot.

I'm not sure what you mean by this... I don't see Gearbox running out of business because of DNF's flop.

[Tea Monster]

One thing it could mean, is that if DNF under-performs, then they are going to think twice about rushing into DN5.

[Mad Max RW]

DavoX, on 24 July 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:

Well you shouldn't post bogus articles I guess then.

It was said by Mike Capps, the PRESIDENT of Epic. Hardly bogus. What does he gain by saying Bulletstorm didn't make money? The 300,000 number was either his mistake or the mistake of whoever wrote the article. The only thing that matters is THE PRESIDENT OF EPIC ADMITS THEIR GAME DIDN'T MAKE MONEY. Looking at the numbers, Bulletstorm still sold more copies than DNF. It was a moderate success on the most popular platform, the Xbox 360. That's something DNF will never be able to claim.

I don't know why you're trying to argue this stuff unless you really are in deep denial. You're very predictable with the straw man arguments.

And stop dodging your claim Bulletstorm cost more than DNF. I want to see where you got this info with detailed numbers behind it. Instead of trying to find a new thing to get confused about, go back and back up what you first said.

Quote

I'm not sure what you mean by this... I don't see Gearbox running out of business because of DNF's flop.

Read Tea Monster's post above mine.

[themaniacboy]

Mad Max RW, on 25 July 2011 - 05:08 AM, said:

It was said by Mike Capps, the PRESIDENT of Epic. Hardly bogus. What does he gain by saying Bulletstorm didn't make money? The 300,000 number was either his mistake or the mistake of whoever wrote the article. The only thing that matters is THE PRESIDENT OF EPIC ADMITS THEIR GAME DIDN'T MAKE MONEY. Looking at the numbers, Bulletstorm still sold more copies than DNF. It was a moderate success on the most popular platform, the Xbox 360. That's something DNF will never be able to claim.

I don't know why you're trying to argue this stuff unless you really are in deep denial. You're very predictable with the straw man arguments.

And stop dodging your claim Bulletstorm cost more than DNF. I want to see where you got this info with detailed numbers behind it. Instead of trying to find a new thing to get confused about, go back and back up what you first said.



Read Tea Monster's post above mine.

Damn dude, all you can do is whine.
Every time i read a post of yours it's a whiney post