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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Holy crap... Watchdogs looks awful! How can something as good looking as Prey 2 which is two years old look better than something created by hundreds of people at Ubisoft across multiple studios?
http://kotaku.com/fo...rible-970720100
Prey 2 to be out in 2012
#393 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:06 PM
Terrible trailer!
Quakecon's about to start and Prey 2 won't be there. It showed so favourably in 2011. Two years without any media. Bethesda has run two of their major acquisitions into the ground. Prey 2 and Doom 4 are going to miss their initial launch window by four years! No wonder Todd Hollenshead decided leave that sinking ship. How long till Kevin Cloud and John Carmack leave and Bethesda turns ID into a engine only studio?
Quakecon's about to start and Prey 2 won't be there. It showed so favourably in 2011. Two years without any media. Bethesda has run two of their major acquisitions into the ground. Prey 2 and Doom 4 are going to miss their initial launch window by four years! No wonder Todd Hollenshead decided leave that sinking ship. How long till Kevin Cloud and John Carmack leave and Bethesda turns ID into a engine only studio?
#394 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:29 PM
Mr. Tibbs, on 31 July 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:
Terrible trailer!
It's not a trailer...
Quote
Quakecon's about to start and Prey 2 won't be there. It showed so favourably in 2011. Two years without any media. Bethesda has run two of their major acquisitions into the ground.
Prey IP was a major acquisition?!
Quote
How long till Kevin Cloud and John Carmack leave and Bethesda turns ID into a engine only studio?
ID was assumed as much way before Beth's acquisition. Besides, who's gonna use their engines since Bethesda doesn't allow 3rd parties to use it?
#395 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:40 PM
Kathy, on 31 July 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:
Prey IP was a major acquisition?!
ID was assumed as much way before Beth's acquisition. Besides, who's gonna use their engines since Bethesda doesn't allow 3rd parties to use it?
ID was assumed as much way before Beth's acquisition. Besides, who's gonna use their engines since Bethesda doesn't allow 3rd parties to use it?
Yep, it cost millions.
Doom 4 was a troubled production, but Bethesda started over seeing the project in 2009 before scrapping everything in 2011. It's been rumoured that Bethesda will lay off the game developers and turn id into a engine-only studio (to salvage what they can from that enormous acquisition) for their other Zenimax projects.
http://kotaku.com/fi...-trac-468097062
It was promotional material, and it sucked.
#396 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:45 PM
Mr. Tibbs, on 31 July 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:
Yep, it cost millions.
It can't be more than acquisition of Arkane.
#397 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:50 PM
Nope. Prey sold more copies than all of Arkane's games put together (pre-Dishonored obviously). It sold over two million copies. It was a major purchase.
Arkane didn't cost much thanks to Bethesda/Zenimax's negotiation strategy. Human Head Studios and Splash Damage would've gone for the same amount if they caved to the pressure.
Arkane didn't cost much thanks to Bethesda/Zenimax's negotiation strategy. Human Head Studios and Splash Damage would've gone for the same amount if they caved to the pressure.
#398 Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:58 PM
Where did you find this "over 2 millions" figure? Miller said about 1mln across 360/PC. And the game was "out of print" long time ago.
- The Sarien Encounter
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#399 Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:23 PM
[quote name='"Kotaku Article"]But Bethesda says that Doom 4 is still happening' date=' and at least one of my sources remains optimistic that despite what’s happened so far, the game will be released... one day.[/quote']
Yeah, that's what they said about Prey 2.
Yeah, that's what they said about Prey 2.
#400 Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:46 PM
I'm guessing rebooting Doom 4 wasn't motivated by quality or creative issues but rather Rage's lukewarm reception. It's still a huge name, so it'll definitely happen at some point. Prey 2 will be released but it will be "Prey 2" in name only. Arkane Austin (all the Dishonored leads have moved to or are based in Lyon - so it's not the same team that created Dishonored - though it will use the modified Unreal-based Dishonored engine ) treating it like a System Shock game instead of a open-world bounty alien hunter game. It's going to miss it's release by four years! Bethesda's trying to lump all the blame on Human Head which is ludicrous, considering the crap they put them through in 2011 and 2012.
This guy's right on the money: http://www.neogaf.co...33&postcount=71
"You guys know Bethesda owns Arkane, so they can make them do whatever they want them to do. During production of Dishonored, Bethesda started to arbitrarily reject milestones. In doing so, the then-independent-Arkane had to find ways to pay their staff since successful milestones are what feeds the bank. Knowing that Arkane wasn't making their milestones on time and potentially going to suffer internally, such as loosing staff, or ultimately shutting down, Bethesda's parent company Zenimax stepped in to help Arkane out by floating them loans during this "quality issue" period. That seemed nice of Zenimax to help out Arkane, right?
Now since Bethesda had been rejecting milestones because they didn't believe Arkane was maintaining the quality they originally promised, Arkane's also severely behind schedule because time has been spent correctly and addressing Bethesda's issues with previously rejected milestones.
Since Zenimax is also the company that's invested in Bethesda, they start telling Arkane they have serious concerns about their ability to finish the Dishonored. Even though they originally floating them loans to keep Arkane running, they now give them an ultimatum: pay back the loans or sell them the studio for some piddly amount. If Arkane doesn't do either, then Zenimax will take them court for breach of contract since they're now so far behind in the project.
Remember, it's because Zenimax's company Bethesda has been rejecting milestones that put Arkane behind in the first place.
The outcome is Arkane reluctantly sold their independence to Zenimax so they could continue the creative work they started and at the very least have public recognition for their efforts.
This is why Bethesda can tell Arkane to do whatever they want them to do now.
What would you do if you were making Prey 2 and started wondering why Bethesda was suddenly treating you differently? You'd start looking at past independent developers Bethesda has had deals with to understand if it's a developer issue or a publisher issue. When you discover Bethesda started to reject milestones at not only Arkane, but Splash Damage and inXile, you start to see a pattern. Knowing the fate of Arkane, if you were the Prey 2 developer would just sit there and see what happens or would you confront the publisher?"
and http://www.neogaf.co...21&postcount=76
"Human Head has their own version of idTech. This is the only version that supports open world gameplay. Arkane on the other hand only has experience with Unreal. Because of these differences the project has to be restarted. There's no way it'll ever be what Human Head created, since Bethesda doesn't have source code for Prey 2. Even if they did, it would take them months to decipher it and I can't imagine Human Head cheerfully helping them out.
Also, it's going to cost Bethesda 10x more to have a different company do anything with Prey 2 than let Human Head finish it. The only developer they own which has the man-power and lower costs to make Prey 2 is Arkane Austin. Machine Games might have been a possible candidate but we know they're now working on Wolfenstein. Any other independent developer would either scoff at the low-ball figure Bethesda was offering or simply not have the experience to pull it off after some trial run. With Arkane, they can at least point to similar game mechanics despite being a completely different beast under the hood."
This guy's right on the money: http://www.neogaf.co...33&postcount=71
"You guys know Bethesda owns Arkane, so they can make them do whatever they want them to do. During production of Dishonored, Bethesda started to arbitrarily reject milestones. In doing so, the then-independent-Arkane had to find ways to pay their staff since successful milestones are what feeds the bank. Knowing that Arkane wasn't making their milestones on time and potentially going to suffer internally, such as loosing staff, or ultimately shutting down, Bethesda's parent company Zenimax stepped in to help Arkane out by floating them loans during this "quality issue" period. That seemed nice of Zenimax to help out Arkane, right?
Now since Bethesda had been rejecting milestones because they didn't believe Arkane was maintaining the quality they originally promised, Arkane's also severely behind schedule because time has been spent correctly and addressing Bethesda's issues with previously rejected milestones.
Since Zenimax is also the company that's invested in Bethesda, they start telling Arkane they have serious concerns about their ability to finish the Dishonored. Even though they originally floating them loans to keep Arkane running, they now give them an ultimatum: pay back the loans or sell them the studio for some piddly amount. If Arkane doesn't do either, then Zenimax will take them court for breach of contract since they're now so far behind in the project.
Remember, it's because Zenimax's company Bethesda has been rejecting milestones that put Arkane behind in the first place.
The outcome is Arkane reluctantly sold their independence to Zenimax so they could continue the creative work they started and at the very least have public recognition for their efforts.
This is why Bethesda can tell Arkane to do whatever they want them to do now.
What would you do if you were making Prey 2 and started wondering why Bethesda was suddenly treating you differently? You'd start looking at past independent developers Bethesda has had deals with to understand if it's a developer issue or a publisher issue. When you discover Bethesda started to reject milestones at not only Arkane, but Splash Damage and inXile, you start to see a pattern. Knowing the fate of Arkane, if you were the Prey 2 developer would just sit there and see what happens or would you confront the publisher?"
and http://www.neogaf.co...21&postcount=76
"Human Head has their own version of idTech. This is the only version that supports open world gameplay. Arkane on the other hand only has experience with Unreal. Because of these differences the project has to be restarted. There's no way it'll ever be what Human Head created, since Bethesda doesn't have source code for Prey 2. Even if they did, it would take them months to decipher it and I can't imagine Human Head cheerfully helping them out.
Also, it's going to cost Bethesda 10x more to have a different company do anything with Prey 2 than let Human Head finish it. The only developer they own which has the man-power and lower costs to make Prey 2 is Arkane Austin. Machine Games might have been a possible candidate but we know they're now working on Wolfenstein. Any other independent developer would either scoff at the low-ball figure Bethesda was offering or simply not have the experience to pull it off after some trial run. With Arkane, they can at least point to similar game mechanics despite being a completely different beast under the hood."
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 31 July 2013 - 07:53 PM
- el fundador
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#401 Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:10 PM
I wonder if Human Head can take what they completed on Prey 2 and turn it into something else, given that it was only very loosely tied to Prey by name anyway...
#402 Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:25 PM
It was pretty loose gameplay-wise but in terms of fiction it was going answer a ton of questions. Quoting from an ex-Human Head devs YT channel:
On Prey 1 ties: "Ever wonder where the Sphere in Prey 1 came from? Who built it? And how they would respond when they found out a Native American from Earth blew it up? What you're seeing is only the first hour of the story and we developed several hours of content that spanned over half-a-dozen locations." On a new protagonist: "Whoever said he was an army guy and that there was no more horror? All that was released was a video from the first hour of the game and the first trailer. A good trailer never gives away the whole story. Bethesda ultimately said no one would want to player a whiny Native American aspiring to his ancestory. That's separate from the bounty hunter aspect. Something like a decade's passed since Tommy's story and you work with him in the game. I proposed a DLC where you played Tommy, though. He's only generic because you never had a chance to play the game to get to know what his goals, hardships, and perspective was on his life. Who's to say if Tommy was the only human stranded on an alien planet for years and years, that he wouldn't end up looking just about the same... It's sort of like watching 2 minutes from the middle of "Castaway" and saying Tom Hanks sure looks like a homeless bum on the beach."
Unfortunately they can't release their work under a new title at a different publisher. "I totally agree that Human Head should finish the game. They're the creative heads behind what made it memorable. Bethesda are the ones that can make that choice."
And a few misc: "Well it wasn't because of poor quality. It matched what you'd expect to find in a AAA game around Alpha." "Actually it's the opposite of COD. Play the game and you'll find out how different it is." "The team drew a lot of inspiration for Mirror's Edge." "True! Too bad Bethesda never released more info on it."
On Prey 1 ties: "Ever wonder where the Sphere in Prey 1 came from? Who built it? And how they would respond when they found out a Native American from Earth blew it up? What you're seeing is only the first hour of the story and we developed several hours of content that spanned over half-a-dozen locations." On a new protagonist: "Whoever said he was an army guy and that there was no more horror? All that was released was a video from the first hour of the game and the first trailer. A good trailer never gives away the whole story. Bethesda ultimately said no one would want to player a whiny Native American aspiring to his ancestory. That's separate from the bounty hunter aspect. Something like a decade's passed since Tommy's story and you work with him in the game. I proposed a DLC where you played Tommy, though. He's only generic because you never had a chance to play the game to get to know what his goals, hardships, and perspective was on his life. Who's to say if Tommy was the only human stranded on an alien planet for years and years, that he wouldn't end up looking just about the same... It's sort of like watching 2 minutes from the middle of "Castaway" and saying Tom Hanks sure looks like a homeless bum on the beach."
Unfortunately they can't release their work under a new title at a different publisher. "I totally agree that Human Head should finish the game. They're the creative heads behind what made it memorable. Bethesda are the ones that can make that choice."
And a few misc: "Well it wasn't because of poor quality. It matched what you'd expect to find in a AAA game around Alpha." "Actually it's the opposite of COD. Play the game and you'll find out how different it is." "The team drew a lot of inspiration for Mirror's Edge." "True! Too bad Bethesda never released more info on it."
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 31 July 2013 - 09:26 PM
#403 Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:15 PM
TerminX, on 31 July 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:
I wonder if Human Head can take what they completed on Prey 2 and turn it into something else, given that it was only very loosely tied to Prey by name anyway...
Maybe they could turn it into a sci-fi church sim and call it Pray 2 God.
On a more serious note, that game could be a very original cyber punk shooter about a bounty hunter that could sport a Snake Plissken + Han Solo type of main character and it would work just fine.
This all depends on how far they were done with the mission objectives and how much they were referring to the original Prey.
This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 31 July 2013 - 10:24 PM
#404 Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:49 AM
TerminX, on 31 July 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:
I wonder if Human Head can take what they completed on Prey 2 and turn it into something else, given that it was only very loosely tied to Prey by name anyway...
I guess that depends both on their contract with Zenimax AND copyright law. Either way if ZeniMax signs off on it, it would be fine. But somehow I doubt this thing ending with any kind of agreement with ZeniMax. But who knows, maybe it already has. Seeing as Prey 2 was an open world game and HH are working on open world game Project P.
#406 Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:33 AM
Whoa, I wasn't expecting to hear anything else about this from Bethesda until they unveil it. Surely they couldn't still be working on the base Human Head started? Like the last media they released was this time at Quakecon 2 years ago. One things for sure, this whole things a mess.
"It probably doesn’t help me to define that any further. The reason that it got delayed the way it did is because it was not hitting the quality bar that it was supposed to and needed to. That was ultimately the problem. It had nothing to do with what it was trying to do. It just didn’t hit the quality bar. It’s kind of like Wolfenstein, which is getting delayed to next year because it’s showing promise, but it needs more time and polish to hit the quality bar we expect. Prey 2 is not the first time that we’ve moved something because of that. It’s gonna come down to quality." Ah, that nebulous term "quality".
"It probably doesn’t help me to define that any further. The reason that it got delayed the way it did is because it was not hitting the quality bar that it was supposed to and needed to. That was ultimately the problem. It had nothing to do with what it was trying to do. It just didn’t hit the quality bar. It’s kind of like Wolfenstein, which is getting delayed to next year because it’s showing promise, but it needs more time and polish to hit the quality bar we expect. Prey 2 is not the first time that we’ve moved something because of that. It’s gonna come down to quality." Ah, that nebulous term "quality".
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 02 August 2013 - 01:35 AM
#407 Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:55 PM
Another twist (Excuse the double post)
http://www.vg247.com...k-online-report
http://www.allgamesb...ed-screens.html
http://www.vg247.com...k-online-report
http://www.allgamesb...ed-screens.html
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 02 August 2013 - 01:27 PM
#409 Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:51 PM
Nah, it looks like it's from a developer build. There's a new HUD, locations, etc... The playable demo was on a 360 dev kit and had the Bowery and Sphere abduction level. I wonder who leaked them? Human Head employee or some annoyed Q.A.? I wish this was an annoying Quakecon ARG!
Even matches up with the achievement leak earlier. http://www.neogaf.co...035&postcount=1 http://devinwatson.c...hema/72790.html
"AW_JOB_WELL_DONE
A Job Well Done
Complete all objectives of an Open World Event "
Even matches up with the achievement leak earlier. http://www.neogaf.co...035&postcount=1 http://devinwatson.c...hema/72790.html
"AW_JOB_WELL_DONE
A Job Well Done
Complete all objectives of an Open World Event "
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 02 August 2013 - 03:43 PM
#410 Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:17 PM
Its seems like development-hell all over again. Hope they get this one out, the first one was truly marvelous and the footage shown a while ago (wich we can't say if its going to make it in the final game) was truly impressive.
This post has been edited by 100199: 05 August 2013 - 03:17 PM
- Honored Donor
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#411 Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:52 PM
Funny how most people were dissing this sequel and then everyone loves it when it's cancelled.
(I always liked it
)
(I always liked it
)
#412 Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:01 PM
Bethesda's so upfront about lying. In that RPS interview Pete Hines claims that Human Head wasn't happy with the game. There are so many places we're the developers have come forward and shown their support including a former QA Robert Banks (now at Raven) saying "I really did love working on this game. It's still one of my favorite shooters of all time." and https://twitter.com/...484568097005569 "Man. Those PREY 2 screenshots take me back. So much fun. Such atmosphere. And I named some of those Achievements!"
Did anyone check out these reports that directly clash with what Zenimax's PR guy said?
http://www.aliennoir...an-asks-arkane/
"Human Head's still taking care of Prey." "That's interesting because I remember when they reported that rumour, several different sources, many who worked at Arkane, came forward and said they were working on it. So either that was a complete fabrication, or somebodies lying." "Weird!" "Well, I guess either way, somebodies lying."
Did anyone check out these reports that directly clash with what Zenimax's PR guy said?
http://www.aliennoir...an-asks-arkane/
"Human Head's still taking care of Prey." "That's interesting because I remember when they reported that rumour, several different sources, many who worked at Arkane, came forward and said they were working on it. So either that was a complete fabrication, or somebodies lying." "Weird!" "Well, I guess either way, somebodies lying."
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 05 August 2013 - 06:05 PM
#413 Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:33 AM
Mr. Tibbs, on 31 July 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:
How long till Kevin Cloud and John Carmack leave
It seems Carmack left already...
http://www.eurogamer...hnology-officer
This post has been edited by Kathy: 07 August 2013 - 07:55 AM
- The Sarien Encounter
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#414 Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:53 AM
Well, he never left per se.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 07 August 2013 - 08:53 AM
#416 Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:54 AM
"Happy to say @id_aa_carmack is not leaving id & will continue to provide leadership for our games in development."
https://twitter.com/idSoftware
"My time division is now Oculus over Id over Armadillo. Busy busy busy!"
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack
https://twitter.com/idSoftware
"My time division is now Oculus over Id over Armadillo. Busy busy busy!"
https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack
#417 Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:35 PM
http://www.ign.com/a...hnology-officer
Yeah working full time at a different company. That's not going to have an impact on Doom 4/ Doom reboot. No change there. "Leadership" must mean not coming in everyday. End of a an era. Nice of Bethesda to announce that change after Quakecon.
Yeah working full time at a different company. That's not going to have an impact on Doom 4/ Doom reboot. No change there. "Leadership" must mean not coming in everyday. End of a an era. Nice of Bethesda to announce that change after Quakecon.
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 07 August 2013 - 12:37 PM
- "Dick Nasty"
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#418 Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:41 PM
I think you guys underestimate John Carmack...I'm sure he can easily divide his time between more than one company. Plus, how are we to know that his work on the new DooM isn't already done? After all, he's the head honcho programming/rendering guy and that sort of work is typically done first in a development cycle. I wouldn't be too worried.
#419 Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:41 PM
Oculus told Engadget via email he's not really working at id anymore, so there's that. It's not a stretch to assume his role at id will be mostly ceremonial, despite the damage control and spinny PR talk Bethesda and some others will assuredly spread around. He's working at Oculus full-time, so the id connection's probably something like using their games as a testbed of sorts:
http://kotaku.com/jo...with-1053820115
http://www.engadget....hn-carmack-cto/
"In an email from the folks at Oculus, Carmack was confirmed to be out at the company he helped found -- id Software -- and joining Oculus full-time as CTO. He will apparently still serve some role at id, as id's parent company told Engadget."
https://twitter.com/...142152864464896
http://kotaku.com/jo...with-1053820115
http://www.engadget....hn-carmack-cto/
"In an email from the folks at Oculus, Carmack was confirmed to be out at the company he helped found -- id Software -- and joining Oculus full-time as CTO. He will apparently still serve some role at id, as id's parent company told Engadget."
https://twitter.com/...142152864464896
This post has been edited by Mr. Tibbs: 07 August 2013 - 05:50 PM
#420 Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:54 PM
Duke Rocks, on 07 August 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:
I think you guys underestimate John Carmack...I'm sure he can easily divide his time between more than one company. Plus, how are we to know that his work on the new DooM isn't already done? After all, he's the head honcho programming/rendering guy and that sort of work is typically done first in a development cycle.
It's the backbone yeah, but unless it's completely bug free, there is always a job to be done.
Quote
I wouldn't be too worried.
He's got a new full-time job at a compony with a new developing technology. Which means his level of input about anything id will be close to 0. Unless he doesn't need to sleep or cloned himself.
