[Engel220]

I'm so tired of being called a hipster just because I own an iPod and a Kindle. The iPod's one of the best portable music players around, as well as being one of the largest in storage size (I have the 160 GB 'Classic', bulky but perfect for the serious music lover), and I own a Kindle because I found it to be the best eBook reader out of all the others I looked at and it had other useful features besides. I didn't buy them both for the sake of being part of the trends, I bought them because they're both great pieces of tech, and it sucks that you can't buy something from a big-name brand without automatically being tagged as a hipster.

[Kathy]

Engel220, on 20 May 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

it sucks that you can't buy something from a big-name brand without automatically being tagged as a hipster.

Then everyone except hobos are hipsters.

[Sangman]

How exactly is owning an iPod being a hipster, pretty sure iPods are mainstream.

[Kathy]

Engel sure have strange friends/acquaintances.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Ripemanewone, on 19 May 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Edit: Achenar, yeah, I'm not sure a millionaire Mormon would have the peoples best interests at heart, but maybe that just me. Because you know Mormons really know whats going on and millionaires always care about the small folk. I really hope I didn't make you think for a second.

You sure are quick to judge someone based on their religion and income. Perhaps you could elaborate on where you and Romney differ?

[Hendricks266]

Rory, on 20 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Hell the only solution I can think of is: boot camp, but even then I fear that could do more harm then good.

Yeah. Have you ever watched Platoon?

[Hank]

Watch Platoon (good movie I think), no clue what this has to do with the Youth of Today so.
As for the repeating theme of youth of today is going downhill - I still disagree. Youth of today is exposed to a flood of information, the previous generation had not to deal with. Obviously one having specific knowledge of one subject would conclude those that lack that knowledge to be stupid. The youth of today deal with an international environment that communicates in English. Those that do not command that language in fullare not necessarily stupid, just ignorant. In my never humble opinion.

p.s. I personally strongly utterly hate that fucked up in the head language aka English

[Sangman]

To be honest I don't think people now are more stupid than in earlier times. Just that because of the internet and social media we are much more exposed to stupidity than before. I know plenty of intelligent people as well.

[Jimmy]

You also have to take into account that the proliferation of popular culture has meant that it has to be watered down to appeal to the masses (and most everything these days is made simple enough to sell to foreign markets.) This is why you see nothing but dogshit summer blockbuster style movies anymore. The Transformers movies did better financially overseas because it has no real plot and the dialogue isn't important. It makes sense to people who don't speak English because the plot and narrative aren't the point, it's all about explosions and shit. Same deal with music. Why push musicians who require time and creativity to write their songs when you can have a producer whip up a simple beat loop and have some guy rhyme about sex or something silly? The words aren't important. It's also obvious that our education and packaged culture is trying to promote ignorance. Informed critically thinking citizens don't fare well for people who want to make money and exploit the government.

[Ronin]

Achenar, on 20 May 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

You sure are quick to judge someone based on their religion and income. Perhaps you could elaborate on where you and Romney differ?

I'm, younger, poorer and better looking, also I'm not running for president of the most influential power in the world. I personally don't believe that such a rich, out of touch man would have the general public's best interests at heart, he is a shark.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

The Transformers movies did better financially overseas because it has no real plot and the dialogue isn't important.

They didn't do much better overseas financialy except for the third movie.

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It makes sense to people who don't speak English because the plot and narrative aren't the point, it's all about explosions and shit.

How does not speaking english affect this? Movies are shown with translation.

Quote

Same deal with music. Why push musicians who require time and creativity to write their songs when you can have a producer whip up a simple beat loop and have some guy rhyme about sex or something silly? The words aren't important.

Music > words.

[Ronin]

Captain Awesome, on 19 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

I'd vote for Booker T just because he slips up and says 'Nigga' all the time by accident. (I'm not a bigot, you just know it's hilarious when shit like this happens) I'd probably vote for Ultimate Warrior just because I'm a rabid fan.

I watched that, very funny. Imagine him doing that hand stare thing after hearing something shocking from a fellow politician if he was president. "Tell me you did not just say that...nigga!".

[Jimmy]

Burnett, on 20 May 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

They didn't do much better overseas financialy except for the third movie.


How does not speaking english affect this? Movies are shown with translation.


Music > words.

I meant the third one, I try not to keep up with those movies because they suck.

And the language barrier has a huge effect. Films like The Big Lebowski would lose a lot in translation. The characters aren't important. The only purpose they serve is to string along the non-existent plot from scene to scene. There is no exposition or real narrative going on, so it doesn't even matter if the translation makes sense. Especially if they're dubbing the film. They can do whatever the hell they want and it doesn't matter as long as people get to see the pretty explosions. Most of your American viewers probably can't remember half of the general narrative of these films, just all the 'cool shit' that happens.

And lyrics are just as important as the music, and depending on the artist, arguably more important.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

And the language barrier has a huge effect. Films like The Big Lebowski would lose a lot in translation.

Big Lebowski didn't do much financially in US either despite not having a language barrier. Dude, you're right about movies losing something because of translation, but it's simply not true they considerably struggle financially because of that.

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And lyrics are just as important as the music, and depending on the artist, arguably more important.

And depending on listener also. Besides, your logic about movies then should be working against english singing musicians, even more so.

[Jimmy]

I wasn't trying to imply that the Big Lebowski did well here, and bad overseas. The point is that when you convert a film, or any form of art, into another language, a lot will get lost. Movie studios recognized this and have put most of their money into films where what the characters say isn't as important as what they do. You get what I'm saying? You don't need to know what people are saying in Transformers or Battleship, because you know "Oh that's the bad guy, that's the good guy, they're gonna fight." A film heavy on dialogue that gets poorly translated is gonna be like Eraserhead to a foreign viewer, it's not gonna make a damn lick of sense. And the logic doesn't work against my point about music, it's all government music shit. It's not mentally stimulating so the words aren't important, it's just catchy or whatever. Plenty of people listen to bands in languages they don't understand. Every Otaku dork in the world has every J-Pop album ever even though he knows no more than "Ohayo!" or "Kawaii!" I listen to a band from Norway named Seigmenn, even though I have no fucking idea what they're talking about. And American music has international appeal and marketing and big money behind it.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

I wasn't trying to imply that the Big Lebowski did well here, and bad overseas. The point is that when you convert a film, or any form of art, into another language, a lot will get lost. Movie studios recognized this and have put most of their money into films where what the characters say isn't as important as what they do. You get what I'm saying? You don't need to know what people are saying in Transformers or Battleship, because you know "Oh that's the bad guy, that's the good guy, they're gonna fight."

I understand, but highly doubt it has to do with translation. I mean... this good/bad/fight scenario is just better for mainstream whatever the language. I really can't see anyone thinking "let's dumb down dialogue so that it be translated better". Dialogues get dumbed down because people making the movie care more about action etc. and not about the dialogues.
If the movie has lots of action and a witty dialogue I can't see the reason to dumb down the latter since translation wouldn't be worse than dumbed down dialogue anyway.

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A film heavy on dialogue that gets poorly translated is gonna be like Eraserhead to a foreign viewer, it's not gonna make a damn lick of sense.

So it's better to make a shitty dialogue shitty for everyone because it will be shitty anyway if poorly translated? And you could translate movie pretty well. I'm more concerned about dub for example than translation. Sure, it could suck, but it's not THAT hard to make a valid translation. And comparable to books translating a movie is nothing.

Depends on the movie of course - Airplane! is a disaster.

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I listen to a band from Norway named Seigmenn, even though I have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

Then why do you think lyrics matter as much as the music? For you it's like watching a movie without translation, is it not?

[Jimmy]

You're missing the point. They've figured out that dialogue and narrative is worthless. You can release any old crap and it just doesn't matter as long as there are explosions.

I said the lyrics can matter as much as the music. A lot of bands like The Dead Kennedys weren't very good musicians (at first) but the lyrics were always sharp and poignant and have a legacy of their own. I always appreciate art as closely as I can to how the artist intended. I don't watch dubbed films, I watch them subbed. I am able to listen to music in languages I can't understand because I can appreciate that musicianship.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

You're missing the point. They've figured out that dialogue and narrative is worthless. You can release any old crap and it just doesn't matter as long as there are explosions.

Not really, it's not that simple. And where do you draw the line of "worthless" dialogue? Is it "The Dark Knight clever dialogue/narrative" vs "Battleship dumb d/n" or is it "The Dark Knight shallow d/n" vs "Winter Light existential d/n"?

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I always appreciate art as closely as I can to how the artist intended. I don't watch dubbed films, I watch them subbed.

Well, it might depend on the artist actually. Plus linguistically you could make an argument that subtitles can't show emotional emphasis in phrases/words. But I don't watch dubbed movies either. Well, mostly. As of recently I began going to cinema again and we don't have subtitles there.

[Jimmy]

You release any movie with a bunch of explosions or CGI and nice soundtrack/marketing campaign and it'll make a hundred million dollars just because every idiot will go see it. I mean, come on, there are people out there who actually like The Phantom Menace, Spiderman 3, and Twilight. And you can gather from context where the emotional emphasis should be placed.

I don't go to movies very often because everything sucks now (ah the joys of being a cynic.) However, I was dragged into 21 Jump Street and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

You release any movie with a bunch of explosions or CGI and nice soundtrack/marketing campaign and it'll make a hundred million dollars just because every idiot will go see it. I mean, come on, there are people out there who actually like The Phantom Menace, Spiderman 3, and Twilight.

You do realise these examples kind of not supporting your claims? TPM and SP3 had a franchise to support them(plus SP3's reception killed it after opening weekend). And Twilight didn't even have all those things you mentioned like explosions and stuff. On the other hand Battleship failed despite being explosive action package. I know what you're trying to say and to a degree agree with you, but this time your arguments mostly miss than hit.

[Sangman]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

This is why you see nothing but dogshit summer blockbuster style movies anymore.

What? Oh, right, you only visit mainstream movie theatres. Time to explore the "indie" scene my friend.

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It makes sense to people who don't speak English because the plot and narrative aren't the point, it's all about explosions and shit.

That's ludicrous. Have you even been to a movie theatre outside of America? :/

Quote

Same deal with music. Why push musicians who require time and creativity to write their songs when you can have a producer whip up a simple beat loop and have some guy rhyme about sex or something silly?

There is plenty of good music on the radio. Just a few modern things I can think of: The Black Keys, Gotye, Arctic Monkeys,... And I just name these bands because they do receive a lot of airplay. If you explore stuff that isn't on the radio you'll find that there is a shitload of good music still.

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Films like The Big Lebowski would lose a lot in translation.

I don't see why it would. The only thing that gets lost in translation sometimes is English wordplay of which there is not that much in The Big Lebowski and even then dubs and subs will fill that in with a comparable wordplay. Frankly the only thing I can think of that has huge "lost in translation" problems are Japanese animes. Not so much English cause it and the rest of the European languages have a lot in common..

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And lyrics are just as important as the music, and depending on the artist, arguably more important.

Doesn't your post about not understanding a Norwegian band undermine this sentence?

[Sangman]

It's not a flamewar you dumbass

[Micky C]

Yeah I at least found this page to be a very interesting discussion.

That may or may not be due to me trying to find anything and everything to do to avoid doing study.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Sangman, on 21 May 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:

It's not a flamewar you dumbass

"Flamewar" is a term people throw around quickly at the sight of any form of intellectual discourse (i.e. "using your brain") on a message forum.

[Hank]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

You release any movie with a bunch of explosions or CGI and nice soundtrack/marketing campaign and it'll make a hundred million dollars just because every idiot will go see it.

This it's where the rubber meets the road. It's not the quality of the movie but how well the marketing is. If you are a studio pumping millions into stunts and effects and popular actors, you will include sufficient funds to promote it. Thus I think, shitty movie sell well because they are sold well.


As Sangman wrote, try the Independent movie scene. Here in my home town is a theatre just for students where (free of charge) you can watch a home grown movie, once a week. Not sure what's in your neighbourhood, but it takes only a video camera and imagination to make a short.

[TerminX]

Captain Awesome, on 20 May 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

I listen to a band from Norway named Seigmenn, even though I have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

Is that the same Seigmen that turned into Zeromancer?

[Jimmy]

Sangman, on 21 May 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

What? Oh, right, you only visit mainstream movie theatres. Time to explore the "indie" scene my friend.

I don't visit any movie theatres. Not to mention, there are no scenes for anything when you live in the boondocks.

Sangman, on 21 May 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

There is plenty of good music on the radio. Just a few modern things I can think of: The Black Keys, Gotye, Arctic Monkeys,... And I just name these bands because they do receive a lot of airplay. If you explore stuff that isn't on the radio you'll find that there is a shitload of good music still.

I don't think any of those bands are good. There are some good bands about though, yet I haven't heard any of them on the radio. Recent acts from the past few years or so I'm enjoying are OFF!, Soldiers of Jah Army, Voltaire, Jello Biafra and the Guantanamo School of Medicine, Cancerslug, and Mad Conductor, and then there are plenty of old ass bands still releasing good stuff like Bad Religion, Bruce Springsteen, Cyndi Lauper, Iron Maiden, and Danzig.

Sangman, on 21 May 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Doesn't your post about not understanding a Norwegian band undermine this sentence?

Not really. Like I said, it all depends. And according to many Norwegians, Seigmen had great lyrics, and the one album they did in English was pretty good.

Hank, on 21 May 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

This it's were the rubber meets the road. It's not the quality of the movie but how well the marketing is. If you are a studio pumping in millions into stunts and effects and popular actors you will include sufficient funds to promote it. Thus I think, shitty movie sell well because they are sold well.


As Sangman wrote, try the Independent movie scene. Here in my home town is a theatre just for students where (free of charge) you can watch a home grown movie, once a week. Not sure what's in your neighbourhood, but it takes only a video camera and imagination to make a short.

Yeah dude, they'll throw Dane Cook in some shitty script and have the trailer make that shit look like Citizen Kane. But like I said, I live in Nowheres.

TerminX, on 21 May 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Is that the same Seigmen that turned into Zeromancer?

That's the one.

[Kathy]

Hank, on 21 May 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

This it's were the rubber meets the road. It's not the quality of the movie but how well the marketing is. If you are a studio pumping in millions into stunts and effects and popular actors you will include sufficient funds to promote it. Thus I think, shitty movie sell well because they are sold well.

There is also thing called "Word of mouth". Marketing only works for the first several days. If the movie is shitty then producers better pray it grosses enought in the first days. Many movies don't.

Captain Awesome, on 21 May 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Danzig.

Did he/they done any good album since Satan's Child? Cause can't say I liked those 2 that followed.

[Jimmy]

Deth Red Sabaoth was awesome. I caught him on the DRS tour as well, and the band is really great. Probably the best concert I've seen other than Streetlight Manifesto. (How I forgot to mention them above as well, I have no idea.) I don't have much interest in most Danzig stuff after the Misfits (one of my all time favorite bands) because I find metal kinda boring, but his newest stuff has been really awesome.

EDIT: And the problem with the word of mouth bit is that there are a lot of stupid people. I have the 'pleasure' of knowing a lot of dumb people in real life, so I'm probably a little more cynical than I should be.

[Kathy]

Captain Awesome, on 21 May 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I don't have much interest in most Danzig stuff after the Misfits (one of my all time favorite bands) because I find metal kinda boring, but his newest stuff has been really awesome.

Most Danzig albums aren't metal at all.

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And the problem with the word of mouth bit is that there are a lot of stupid people. I have the 'pleasure' of knowing a lot of dumb people in real life, so I'm probably a little more cynical than I should be.

I mean studios might not have much power over WoM like they do over marketing.