Ripemanewone, on 23 January 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:
Contra 3 is the best side scrolling shooter of all time. That is not an opinion.
The Japanese version of Contra: Hard Corps on Genesis is better IMO. More weapons, four characters, multiple story paths and endings, and no slowdown. The Japanese version has a three hit health system and unlimited continues. The American one has one hit deaths and five continues. So unless your last name is "Park," "Lee," or "Nguyen" don't play that shit.
rasmus thorup, on 23 January 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:
I absolutely hate sidescrolling games.
This post has been edited by Descent: 23 January 2012 - 06:38 PM
I've been nauseous all day for no reason, completely skipped breakfast and lunch, I can't really do much at the moment besides sit/ lie down and not do anything. I can hardly watch TV unless something really mindless is on, because I'd have trouble concentrating on the plot.
The Oxford comma is not standard usage in the United States. If it were standard usage, there wouldn't be a special name for it. What's interesting, though, is that the comic illustrates a real semantic difference between the two usages; it's not just a stylistic choice, in other words.
The Japanese version of Contra: Hard Corps on Genesis is better IMO. More weapons, four characters, multiple story paths and endings, and no slowdown. The Japanese version has a three hit health system and unlimited continues. The American one has one hit deaths and five continues. So unless your last name is "Park," "Lee," or "Nguyen" don't play that shit.
Nah, Hard Corps is a bastard version with wierd characters limited weapons and less epic structure crap attempt at a "story" and rubbish music. I cleared it as I cleared most of them its good but not THAT good, Contra 3 has it all, epic boss fights, amazing music, brilliant level design and game play flow all honed to perfection, the minor and infrequent slow down made zero differance. Im not sure how that level of perfection was only reached once with Contra 3 they did it all and are incapable of bettering it it seems. The next best one is the original, then the new one for Xbox arcade then then Contra 4 then the Genisis one. Apart from Duke 3D Contra 3 is the game I played the most in my life followed my Double Dragon 2 on NES.
This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 24 January 2012 - 05:13 AM
Ripemanewone, on 24 January 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:
Nah, Hard Corps is a bastard version with wierd characters limited weapons and less epic structure crap attempt at a "story" and rubbish music.
I quite like the music in Hard Corps. IMO the Genesis has the better synthesizer. I can't stand 90% of the music on the SNES, it makes everything sound like Cartoon Network. It doesn't even have a synthesizer, it's a Sony sampler chip that doesn't have anywhere near enough memory to hold good samples. It's stuck in the same nether region the Yamaha DX-7 is. It's not electronic enough nor realistic enough to create a good sound. It's stuck in limbo on the middle of the spectrum.
The Yamaha 2612 + TI PSG setup in the Genesis is much better. Oh yeah, random fact: Ken Kutaragi designed the SNES' sampler. Not exactly his best work...
This post has been edited by Descent: 24 January 2012 - 12:19 PM
Anybody that says the Genesis sound hardware is better than the SNES is uneducated or butthurt. I like them both just as much, but I can not for one second deny that the SNES hardware is vastly superior to the hardware in the Genesis / Mega Drive.
Of course sometimes people prefer a particular version of a soundtrack, Earthworm Jim is a good example, some argue that the Genesis version has more bass and is more lively and the SNES sounds tinny and slow wheras others argue that it sounds rushed and only has bass due to restrictions of the MD hardware and anyway, you don't want only bass because that sucks, that is one where no argument is wrong or right - it is a matter of personal preference.
FYI, the Genesis sound chip is like sticking a few DX-100's in a row with a crappy sampler, I own a DX-100 that I did Genesis style remixes with and it is patch compatible (except sometimes you have to swap OP1 and OP4).
As for the SNES hardware, when used right, it is good (and it is a synthesizer - a WaveTable Synthesizer/Sample-based synthesizer, which is the way synthesizer technology was going and has continued to go since the early 1990's) - you listen to something that utilises it properly, such as this; and tell me it sucks.
Of course what some people did with the Genesis hardware was also amazing, take Metal Squad from Thunder Force 4 for example, but such titles were few and far between.
This post has been edited by High Treason: 24 January 2012 - 01:11 PM
Im certainly not qualified to say which system produced better sounds, just that the music in Contra 3 was excellent and well structured and Hard Corps not so much. But I do recognise that the systems did sound differant in general. Saying Hard Corps music was rubbish was a little harsh I guess, but nearly all 16-bit console music was rubbish when compared to Super Probotector!
Contra.. Fuck Yeah!
This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 24 January 2012 - 01:57 PM
16-Bit music was rubbish? Maybe, but I like it, certainly more than 8-Bit music - though some of that was amazing too, look up Journey To Sillius, who would have thought the NES could make a noise like that?
So what about 16-Bit systems that were on CD, like the PC Engine's version of Castlevania Rondo of Blood or Zero Wing? Just curious.
Edit: Odd that I should mention Journey to Sillius, I'm inclined to believe Duke Nukem 1 might have borrowed some graphics from it.
This post has been edited by High Treason: 24 January 2012 - 02:27 PM
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:
16-Bit music was rubbish?
Only when compared to Contra 3, not saying 16 bit music is bad, just exaggerating to hammer home how cool the music in Contra is, I love 8 bit music, its so unique it should be used more often instead of just minor samples, that Scott Pilgrim Vs The World game on Xbox live had amazing use of 8 bit music with modern bits thrown in to back it up, great game by the way. The Mega Man games really knew how to rock the 8 bit, especially Mega Man 3.
This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 24 January 2012 - 02:44 PM
Right, I misunderstood. Damn! I'm not a mod here so I can't delete my post to make myself look cleverer than I really am
Yeah, giving it a quick listen Contra 3 music sounds quite epic and I'm not Konami's biggest fan (Capcom fanboy mode: Activated) so they must have done something right.
I think 8-Bit music is over-used though (Is that possible?), or at least, NES music is, my favorite flavour of 8-Bit has always been SID (Commodore 64) - I seriously doubt my neighbours like me very much, because not only do I listen to my favorite metal bands loud, I listen to my favorite C64 tunes loud too.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:
Yeah, giving it a quick listen Contra 3 music sounds quite epic and I'm not Konami's biggest fan (Capcom fanboy mode: Activated) so they must have done something right.
Yeah but the best part is the way the music changes as the stage goes on as opposed to one piece of music per level, the music changes to suit the danger/situation which makes everything seem even more dramatic. I dont know much C64 music, I used to play Rambo and some karate game (that might have been called "Karate") when I was a kid and I think the games were tapes if I remember correctly.
As for Capcom, they used to be great with games like Street Fighter 2 and side scrolling beat em ups like Dungeons and Dragons and some Resident Evil games but now they are found lacking, Konami are good in my book for a long time after the Metal Gears and Contras.
This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 24 January 2012 - 03:12 PM
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
Anybody that says the Genesis sound hardware is better than the SNES is uneducated or butthurt.
No, I just have better taste than you.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
I like them both just as much, but I can not for one second deny that the SNES hardware is vastly superior to the hardware in the Genesis / Mega Drive.
Well yeah, it has better clarity, but who cares if the synth is so bad it's going to sound dated after a couple years?
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
Of course sometimes people prefer a particular version of a soundtrack, Earthworm Jim is a good example, some argue that the Genesis version has more bass and is more lively and the SNES sounds tinny and slow wheras others argue that it sounds rushed and only has bass due to restrictions of the MD hardware and anyway, you don't want only bass because that sucks, that is one where no argument is wrong or right - it is a matter of personal preference.
Then why were you saying I was wrong?
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
FYI, the Genesis sound chip is like sticking a few DX-100's in a row with a crappy sampler, I own a DX-100 that I did Genesis style remixes with and it is patch compatible (except sometimes you have to swap OP1 and OP4).
How is that a bad thing for chiptunes?
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
As for the SNES hardware, when used right, it is good (and it is a synthesizer - a WaveTable Synthesizer/Sample-based synthesizer, which is the way synthesizer technology was going and has continued to go since the early 1990's) - you listen to something that utilises it properly, such as this; and tell me it sucks.
That song didn't suck, but the synthesizer in that thing does suck, as do most wavetable synths from the early 90's. FM synthesizers create their own unique sound. Old wavetable synthesizers just sound like dated, obsolete technology. The only one from that era I like is the MT-32.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:
Of course what some people did with the Genesis hardware was also amazing, take Metal Squad from Thunder Force 4 for example, but such titles were few and far between.
I totally disagree, I can stick random carts into my Genesis and be assured the music is at least halfway decent. There are plenty of SNES games that just have these bland, dated, terrible samples that sucked when new and sell themselves on the street now. Even first party titles were affected.
Seriously, what the fuck is this shit?
As far as the Genesis having no good music, I can throw a rock at my classic game shelf and hit a game that has at least one good track.
This post has been edited by Descent: 24 January 2012 - 03:29 PM
Well yeah, it has better clarity, but who cares if the synth is so bad it's going to sound dated after a couple years?
The Yamaha DX series was dated when it came out, and that argument sucks balls, why make a console if it's going to look dated after a few years?
Quote
Then why were you saying I was wrong?
Ugh, read it again, there was a reason I started a new line, basically I was saying that on the technical side, the SNES will always win, but everyone has an opinion on which system's music they prefer.
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How is that a bad thing for chiptunes?
It's not necessarily bad, it's just that the DX-100 was never built to be good and in technical terms it failed miserably when it came out in the early 80's, so by '88 nobody in their right mind gave a damn about it, except some people that were playing with Techno.
Quote
That song didn't suck, but the synthesizer in that thing does suck, as do most wavetable synths from the early 90's. FM synthesizers create their own unique sound. Old wavetable synthesizers just sound like dated, obsolete technology. The only one from that era I like is the MT-32.
FM Synthesizers were and always will be, rubbish, they were built to be affordable, but even the cheaper Casio Phase Distortion was superior. As for the MT-32, don't make me laugh, I have one sat under my desk, have you ever used one? I guess you haven't, absolubte joke. Now the Yamaha MU series, that was the real deal, don't believe me? I own both Roland and Yamaha modules from that time, so I can easily demonstrate which one is better.
Quote
I totally disagree, I can stick random carts into my Genesis and be assured the music is at least halfway decent. There are plenty of SNES games that just have these bland, dated, terrible samples that sucked when new and sell themselves on the street now. Even first party titles were affected.
Seriously, what the fuck is this shit?
As far as the Genesis having no good music, I can throw a rock at my classic game shelf and hit a game that has at least one good track.
Mario Kart! We never talk about that, that game is an abomination! And anyway, it is no worse than the broken shit Sega pumped out in Sonic 2 (Sorry, it was broken.) - I'm sorry, but the Genesis just sounds like an early 80's arcade system, which was acceptable in the early 80's, but by 1988 the entire thing was a heap of junk, my hat is off to Sega for making it work, but from a technical standpoint, it was inferior and it really shows through, no matter how good or bad the music is.
Edit: Oh, and if you like the MT-32, Mario Kart is a bad choice to argue as bad, bacaue that's where those samples were from.
This post has been edited by High Treason: 24 January 2012 - 03:50 PM
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
I disagree
I was just being sarcastic, no worries bro.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
The Yamaha DX series was dated when it came out, and that argument sucks balls, why make a console if it's going to look dated after a few years?
That's not what I was saying. I was saying that wavetable technology was advancing so fast it wasn't going to be very impressive within two years.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
Ugh, read it again, there was a reason I started a new line, basically I was saying that on the technical side, the SNES will always win, but everyone has an opinion on which system's music they prefer.
My bad.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
It's not necessarily bad, it's just that the DX-100 was never built to be good and in technical terms it failed miserably when it came out in the early 80's, so by '88 nobody in their right mind gave a damn about it, except some people that were playing with Techno.
Well yeah, it was designed to be sold for about $100.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
FM Synthesizers were and always will be, rubbish, they were built to be affordable, but even the cheaper Casio Phase Distortion was superior. As for the MT-32, don't make me laugh, I have one sat under my desk, have you ever used one? I guess you haven't, absolubte joke. Now the Yamaha MU series, that was the real deal, don't believe me? I own both Roland and Yamaha modules from that time, so I can easily demonstrate which one is better.
FM synthesizers aren't "rubbish," they are designed to output a different kind of sound. Good musicians can harness that and create some great stuff.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:
Mario Kart! We never talk about that, that game is an abomination! And anyway, it is no worse than the broken shit Sega pumped out in Sonic 2 (Sorry, it was broken.) - I'm sorry, but the Genesis just sounds like an early 80's arcade system, which was acceptable in the early 80's, but by 1988 the entire thing was a heap of junk, my hat is off to Sega for making it work, but from a technical standpoint, it was inferior and it really shows through, no matter how good or bad the music is.
What the hell? Mario Kart is a wonderful game! And Sonic 2's soundtrack isn't "as bad," it's pretty damn good.
By 1988 only the Amiga had wavetable, so what's your point? These aren't full fledged synthesizers, they are consumer products.
This post has been edited by Descent: 24 January 2012 - 03:59 PM
I was saying that wavetable technology was advancing so fast it wasn't going to be very impressive within two years.
Yes, but so was computer technology, wasn't all this around the time the 80486 was coming out? It was.
Good musicians can harness any instrument's ability and make something good with it, but not every video game composer was a good musician. The point is, you could emulate FM with samples, but I don't see any reason - beyond nostalgia - that anybody would want to.
Mario Kart is overrated, it sucks - actually, I played the NTSC version once and enjoyed it, it's just that the screen flickers and the controls lag on the PAL versions - but the music sucks and can't be turned off. Sonic 2's soundtrack was more complex in Beta versions, there is a beta where the music breaks and after that, all tracks seem to have been cut back and share a lot of the same patches, it appears they broke it and slapped it together at the last minute, the same stands for the rest of the game - not saying the game wasn't fun, it was fun, but it was broken and certainly quite far from what it was meant to be.
In 1988 the Amiga was also among the cheapest of the computer systems at that time (At least, if my memory serves me correctly) so why couldn't Sega implement that? It shouldn't have been immensely difficult, they were working with the company back then (Sonic was even meant to have an Amiga port at one point) and the systems shared an architechture.
Edit: @Ripemanewone; Ah, the memories, there was only one kid in our street that had a Sega, and he didn't get a Mega Drive until the Saturn had been out for a while, but we used to do some really horrible things to him - such as playing Stunt Race FX every time he came to one of our houses.
This post has been edited by High Treason: 24 January 2012 - 04:13 PM
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:
Edit: @Ripemanewone; Ah, the memories, there was only one kid in our street that had a Sega, and he didn't get a Mega Drive until the Saturn had been out for a while, but we used to do some really horrible things to him - such as playing Stunt Race FX every time he came to one of our houses.
Haha or Star Fox! I forgot about them. I believe even the Nes had some games with special chips in them to boost the performance like Double Dragon 2 and BattleToads and Double dragon that actually made them visually as good as the Megadrive versions. I like both consoles though and used to swap my Snes for my mates Megadrive once a year so we could both get the best of both worlds, although I always thought it was better to own a Snes I knew the Megadrive had some "dark" games like Splatter House that were not available to the Snes (in Ireland at least) and I wanted to play them. The war truely ended when Star Fox came out that was the nuke button.
Ripemanewone, on 24 January 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:
Kid A : Mario...
Kid B : Sonic...
Kid A : Final Fight...
Kid B : Streets of Rage...
Hahahahaha! I've never once thought that anyone on the street would know about barely one but both Final Fight and Streets of Rage in order to make a valid comparison.
By the way, the best home version of Final Fight 1 came out for Mega CD, although the masterpiece Final Fight 3 is SNES exclusive.
This post has been edited by Hendricks266: 24 January 2012 - 04:43 PM
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:
Mario Kart is overrated, it sucks - actually, I played the NTSC version once and enjoyed it, it's just that the screen flickers and the controls lag on the PAL versions - but the music sucks and can't be turned off.
I assume you are referring specifically to Super Mario Kart (SNES). Mario Kart DS is great fun with friends and I've heard good things about 7 on the 3DS.
High Treason, on 24 January 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:
Sonic 2's soundtrack was more complex in Beta versions, there is a beta where the music breaks and after that, all tracks seem to have been cut back and share a lot of the same patches, it appears they broke it and slapped it together at the last minute, the same stands for the rest of the game - not saying the game wasn't fun, it was fun, but it was broken and certainly quite far from what it was meant to be.
Have you listened to the original demos that were put out on an album? I recall some discussion that they sounded more like the prototypes than the final, but don't take my word for it.
I would definitely agree that the soundtracks for Sonic 1 and S3&K outshine S2.
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