[Danukem]

polyhedron, on 20 January 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

I'll try commenting out the lines in the Attrition defs which override the original hud models of the HRP, though I don't know where they are exactly - I'm more a player than modder. I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

Those would be the models in highres/sprites/firstperson, so if you search for that in att_hrp.def and comment out the defs for those models, it should tell us whether that's the source of the problem. Or it could be that the hang is triggered by the minigun model, or some other model that only loads when the att_hrp defs are being used. If I were testing this, I would start by commenting out everything in att_hrp.def from the first model definition on (starting with the Duke model used for the bots). If the game will start with all that commented out, then we know we are on the right track and then we can begin uncommenting stuff until we find what's causing it to hang.

[polyhedron]

Trooper Dan, on 21 January 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

Those would be the models in highres/sprites/firstperson, so if you search for that in att_hrp.def and comment out the defs for those models, it should tell us whether that's the source of the problem. Or it could be that the hang is triggered by the minigun model, or some other model that only loads when the att_hrp defs are being used. If I were testing this, I would start by commenting out everything in att_hrp.def from the first model definition on (starting with the Duke model used for the bots). If the game will start with all that commented out, then we know we are on the right track and then we can begin uncommenting stuff until we find what's causing it to hang.

Hi Dan,
I've commented out the model definitions located in highres/sprites/firstperson as follows:

// model "highres/sprites/firstperson/2524_pistol.md3" {
// ... all lines between braces
// }

// model "highres/sprites/firstperson/2530_clip.md3" {
// ... all lines between braces
// }

// model "highres/sprites/firstperson/2532_cliphand.md3" {
// ... all lines between braces
// }

// model "highres/sprites/firstperson/2544_rpg.md3" {
// ... all lines between braces
// }

The game starts and runs fine. However I've noticed some odd lines in eduke32.log attached:

Loading "att_hrp.def"
High Resolution Pack (version 5.3.565 Polymost Override)
...........................................................Warning: Failed including dukedc_hrp.def on line att_hrp.def:2
......Warning: Failed loading MD2/MD3 model "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke.md3"
Warning: defined hightile replacement for empty tile 5656. Maybe some tilesXXX.art are not loaded?
.........Error on line att_hrp.def:794.
.
Definitions file "att_hrp.def" loaded.

I gave a look at the lines reported:
"Failed including dukedc_hrp.def on line att_hrp.def:2"

include dukedc_hrp.def

"model "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke.md3""

...
   // crouch and death anim for Duke Plus bots
   model "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke.md3" {
      scale 1.55 shade 0 
      skin { pal 0 surface 0 file "highres/sprites/pickups/0057_jetpack.png" }
      skin { pal 0 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke.png" }
      skin { pal 10 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_10.png" }
      skin { pal 11 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_11.png" }
      skin { pal 12 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_12.png" }
      skin { pal 13 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_13.png" }
      skin { pal 14 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_14.png" }
      skin { pal 15 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_15.png" }
      skin { pal 16 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_16.png" }
      skin { pal 21 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_21.png" }
      skin { pal 23 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/characters/1405_duke_23.png" }
      skin { pal 0 surface 2 file "highres/sprites/pickups/0023_rpg.png" }

      // Crouch
      frame { name "crouch1" tile0 1471 tile1 1475 smoothduration 0.2 }
      frame { name "crouch2" tile0 1476 tile1 1480 smoothduration 0.2 }
      frame { name "crouch3" tile0 1481 tile1 1485 smoothduration 0.2 }
      // Death
      anim { frame0 "die0" frame1 "die1" fps 25 flags 1 }
      frame { name "die0" tile0 1506 tile1 1510 smoothduration 0.2 }
      frame { name "dead" tile 1519 smoothduration 0.3 }
   }
...

"defined hightile replacement for empty tile 5656"

...
setuptile 5656 100 100 0 0
setuptile 5657 116 116 0 0
setuptile 5658 132 132 0 0
setuptile 5659 156 156 0 0
setuptile 5660 128 128 0 0
setuptile 5661 188 188 0 0
setuptile 5662 204 196 0 0
setuptile 5663 244 248 0 0
setuptile 5664 288 284 0 0
setuptile 5666 128 128 0 0
texture 5656 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef1.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5657 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef2.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5658 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef3.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5659 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef4.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5660 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef5.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5661 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef6.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5662 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef7.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5663 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef8.png" nocompress nodownsize } }
texture 5664 { pal 0 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef9.png" nocompress nodownsize } }

tilefromtexture 5656 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/MAP_EFFECTS/stompwavef1.png" alphacut 32 }
...

"Error on line att_hrp.def:794"

...
tilefromtexture 6861 { file "ATTRITION_RESOURCES/GRAPHICS/textbox.png" } }
...

Attached File(s)

•  eduke32.log (31.21K)
  Number of downloads: 224

[LeoD]

polyhedron, it seems I can somehow reproduce your issue. Follow my signature and try the non-SDL EDuke32 build from the "Cutting Edge / Public Backup" section on a vanilla Attrition installation. I'll try to take care of the 1405 model warnings (incompatibility to the current HRP) and some others (->Attrition-NixFix ... ). I'm in a bad cognitive state these days so better not hold your breath, though.

[Danukem]

Thanks, LeoD. What *should* happen is I should update the defs in my mods so they work with the latest HRP revisions. Until then, you are providing an important service :-) And thanks to polyhedron for your detailed investigation.

[polyhedron]

LeoD, on 21 January 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

polyhedron, it seems I can somehow reproduce your issue. Follow my signature and try the non-SDL EDuke32 build from the "Cutting Edge / Public Backup" section on a vanilla Attrition installation. I'll try to take care of the 1405 model warnings (incompatibility to the current HRP) and some others (->Attrition-NixFix ... ). I'm in a bad cognitive state these days so better not hold your breath, though.

Ok,tested with the non-SDL Eduke32; the resulting eduke32.log is attached. Diffing my last log attached with this one gives the following lines:

Error: file "highres/sprites/firstperson/2532_cliphand.png" does not exist
Invalid frame name on line att_hrp.def:111
Removing model 441 due to errors.
Error: file "highres/sprites/firstperson/2544_rpg.png" does not exist

Trooper Dan, on 22 January 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Thanks, LeoD. What *should* happen is I should update the defs in my mods so they work with the latest HRP revisions. Until then, you are providing an important service :-) And thanks to polyhedron for your detailed investigation.

Thanks to both of you for your support. I wish I had the time to understand more of how eduke32 works. If I can spare you some testing let me know.

[Danukem]

Status update.

This morning I downloaded the latest executable and fired up Attrition. I tried out some of the single player maps that have been released since the last time I updated the mod. The experience made me a little bit sad. The maps might be great for vanilla Duke, but not so great for Attrition. The biggest problem is maps where the player is getting attacked at the start. Puzzles don't suit Attrition gameplay needs well either. Oh and Polymer is not really suitable either because I don't want to make it a mod requirement (since most ppl can't run it well). Maps with 3D Realms gameplay seem to work best. If anyone can recommend such maps that have been released in the last few years and not included with Attrition, please do

I know there are bugs and other nuisances in Attrition that have been reported for a long time and I haven't fixed yet. One thing that annoyed me a lot today was the auto-save feature. Yes it can be toggled off but I would like to leave it on -- I just don't want it causing the game to hitch at awkward moments. So that may be the first thing I look into.

[Micky C]

I'm not sure if it's already included (my examination of the files were inconclusive but leaning towards it not in there), but what about the Metropolitan Mayhem maps?

Btw by "attacked at the start", do you mean literally as soon as you start the map there are enemies in the same room which shoot at you?

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 09 February 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it's already included (my examination of the files were inconclusive but leaning towards it not in there), but what about the Metropolitan Mayhem maps?

Btw by "attacked at the start", do you mean literally as soon as you start the map there are enemies in the same room which shoot at you?

I thought about that -- those are certainly some great maps that meet my criteria. But they are supposed to be played as an episode, so I hesitate to include them. Preferably there would be an option to play the MM episode using Attrition, rather than having the MM maps coming up randomly.

By "attacked at the start" I mean the player is not in a safe starting position. I want the player to be able to use the menu and relax a bit at the beginning of a level. I realize that some of the included maps already break this rule, but I'm trying to minimize it. Some of the recently released maps are clusterfucks right from the start. When you have randomized enemies that can have very powerful attacks, that can create frustrating situations. In a nutshell, I want players to have a fun experience and I don't want them to rage quit.

[Micky C]

If you're worried about the gameplay of the maps being put off-balance without weapons carried over from the previous maps, I wouldn't worry about it since each map plays quite well stand-alone. In fact, MetHy put Sex City on Megaton's workshop and it's proving to be quite popular. Of course if you're more worried about permissions or if you mean the episode should be played as a whole for its own experience then I understand.

[Danukem]

Yeah it's the latter reasons, I'm not worried about starting weapons.

EDIT: I did some minor work on the mod tonight. Here's what I have done so far --

-reduced Duke's taunt frequency
-liztroops will not use holo-projection enemies before 2000 points
-increased the time between auto-saves
-fixed bug which would cause pistol to fire if the player used the fire button to select a class at game start
-the tank class now has a constantly slower walking/running speed, rather than a drastically lower speed when firing

Not much, but at least I did something with it

[Danukem]

I want to add a new weapon or two. I know which weapons, I already have the art and the upgrades for them in mind. The only problem I'm having is figuring out how to incorporate them into the existing mod and maps. Basically I want to add the BFG and plasma/shield guns from WGR2, but have them start in a weakened state and gain features through upgrades (like all weapons in Attrition). Maybe the flamethrower as well. There are several options for including them, all of which have drawbacks:

1. Give the player the choice at the beginning of the game of which weapons will be available. So for example the plasma+shield gun could replace the freezer. The drawback to this is I have to code the selection menu and force the player to make choices before playing the game.
2. Make all the weapons available, with the new ones being sub-weapons. So for example the plasma+shield gun would be a subweapon of the freezer, similar to shrinker/expander. The drawbacks to this is there will be more weapons to level (upsetting balance) and I don't know where the new weapons/ammo will be in the maps.
3. Have each class start the game with one of the new weapons and a bit of ammo. So for example, vanilla Duke starts with pistol (normal), Tank starts with BFG, Assassin starts with plasma gun, etc. Those classes always have those weapons at map start (unless the map specifically forces the player to be weaponless). Drawbacks to this are you would have to use a certain class to try a certain weapon, and I don't know where the player will get ammo for them.

Any ideas?

[Micky C]

What about idea 2, but the main weapon and sub weapon share upgrade points? I don't think there's enough freezer/shrinker ammo in most maps to throw the game off-balance this way.

The other idea is like the trooper's laser, enemies will drop these weapons, however it still has the leveling problem, and logically the enemy would have to use this weapon themselves for them to have it.

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 12 February 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

What about idea 2, but the main weapon and sub weapon share upgrade points? I don't think there's enough freezer/shrinker ammo in most maps to throw the game off-balance this way.

That works for balance, but I hate to have different weapons sharing XP. That would mean that if you upgrade the freezer then the plasma gun is automatically upgraded, even if you never used the plasma...which just rubs me the wrong way. Making them work like the trooper laser is even more problematic imo, partly for the reasons you mentioned.

One thing I want to avoid is having the player not even notice that the new weapons exist, because including them is going to be a lot of work. If they are just subweapons that don't even come up without pressing the corresponding weapon key again, they could easily go unnoticed. Right now I'm leaning towards my option 3.

[Micky C]

Quote

AUTOMATIC WEATHER AND GRASS – Attrition decides whether rain or snow is appropriate for a level, and if so the weather is generated. Likewise, blades of grass are spawned where appropriate. The system is not perfect: you may see grass spawned on a green metallic vehicle, for example.

I'm currently testing out a large map with Attrition, and it's snowing. Forgetting the fact that it's snowing in a tropical beach setting, due to the map's large size, the abundance of snow particles is really ruining the framerate. Is there a way to switch it off? What made it decide to snow anyway? I reloaded the map and it still snowed so it wasn't a random occurrence.

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 13 February 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

I'm currently testing out a large map with Attrition, and it's snowing. Forgetting the fact that it's snowing in a tropical beach setting, due to the map's large size, the abundance of snow particles is really ruining the framerate. Is there a way to switch it off? What made it decide to snow anyway? I reloaded the map and it still snowed so it wasn't a random occurrence.

The weather code is guessing incorrectly that it should be snowing based on the presence of certain textures that are commonly associated with snow themed maps. Thanks for reminding me of this bug, which I will try to fix. To disable the snow, open the console and type "setvar raining 0". For reference, positive values of raining makes it rain, negative values makes it snow.

And yes, I am working on a sizeable update with new weapons.

[Player Lin]

Well, I have a weird question about holoduke/dukebot...

After my 67th map of HSC mode run, I noticed I have not found any of holoduke at the map for a while, even its powerup too because I already got max cap of its level since about after completed 20 maps...(I don't like the capped powerup level design on Health and holoduke because I'll never found any of them when I reached the cap, the health one is fine, but holoduke? maybe it replaced by other things for some reasons, but I don't know...I just rarely found any of holodukes on later HSC run...)

...after about 50th~ of map run, I rarely found any of holoduke on maps, I don't know if I just missed them or they're all hiding on secrets....but I would like see if enemies still drop some holoduke powerups even on its level cap...but I see many of damage amplifiers and night googles, even powerful enemies drops them so much...

I don't know why but is it intend or my game goes weird so I just can't get holodukes in later levels?...


I still thinking HSC is balanced enough but in some levels, the enemies turned to so powerful monsters like robots, the "shining" protector drones and the recolored Enforcer with ROF powerup to shooting his powerful projectiles that can kill player in seconds..., but I just only had a pistol, sometimes if I'm bad luck, I used out my nukes and other powerups in last level...even my pistol already on its max level, use it to kill them just pain in my ass...resulting I have to use Save/Load abusing or just use eduke32's godmode cheat to get past there...

Also, I suggest if some powerups like XP powerup, ROF and force field can be "toggle-able" --- active it when I needed --- and save them for later level...since I found some of them drops a lot but I'm on end of level, cleared all enemies, which made them totally useless... maybe can adding the cap for max holding, reduced their drop rates or capability, I don't know....


No, I'm not complaining...

[Danukem]

Player Lin, the mod is not designed to be balanced after 67 maps of gameplay. This is only possible in HSC (high score challenge for anyone else reading), due to the fact that it doesn't end unless the player dies. I had intended for that mode to continually get harder until it becomes hopelessly difficult. In some ways, your post suggests that I have achieved this, but on the whole I failed, because you shouldn't even be able to get through so many maps. I never actually play that mode myself My downfall is that I couldn't bring myself to create enemies that were grossly unfair, because it seemed cheap. But now I may make some tweaks in that direction, which kick in at high levels...

If those powerups you mentioned could be saved for later use, they would unbalance the game too much. Also, I would have to extend the inventory which I don't feel like coding.

I'll keep the HSC in the game because enough people seem to like it, but for the record I'm not satisfied with it, nor do I feel motivated to rework it (for now). I think the biggest problem is that the player can just continue from a saved game if he dies, making the score kind of meaningless. At least you can't get multiple high scores from the same game (I have some code to prevent that), but the fact that death is not final still sort of invalidates the scoreboard. I thought about preventing the player from using a save from a game in which he has died, but the problem is that you can die in really cheap ways in this game (like glitchy doors squishing the player).

[Player Lin]

Yes, in some levels, some sectors can just kill player for no reasons...so it still be a problem...since the engine sometimes do weird shit and killed me like go into a wall if running enough fast or right angles, and got squished instantly and I were like...

"...WTF!?" x_x

Hmm,so I just play HSC too much...I don't know you did't want players goes so many levels in HSC...fair enough.

At least I know the game just not fair for players after completed 60th and more levels...as intended.,

[Micky C]

Well DT you were looking for more maps, what about the Beach CBP?

If there are any enemies in the starting area (and I know for sure there are some on Come Get Some), then feel free to delete them, since they'd just be a few troopers, nothing that would change the balance of the map.

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 27 February 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Well DT you were looking for more maps, what about the Beach CBP?

If there are any enemies in the starting area (and I know for sure there are some on Come Get Some), then feel free to delete them, since they'd just be a few troopers, nothing that would change the balance of the map.

Aside from a few minor issues, Beach CBP plays well with Attrition. The issues mostly have to do with weapon leveling. For example, when I got the part where I had to shoot the distant button, I almost ran out of ammo before I could hit it. The only hitscan weapon I had ammo for was the shotgun, and it wasn't upgraded, so the spread was wide.

[Micky C]

Trooper Dan, on 27 February 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Aside from a few minor issues, Beach CBP plays well with Attrition. The issues mostly have to do with weapon leveling. For example, when I got the part where I had to shoot the distant button, I almost ran out of ammo before I could hit it. The only hitscan weapon I had ammo for was the shotgun, and it wasn't upgraded, so the spread was wide.

If I put out an update for the map, I'll put some extra handgun ammo there. I'm aware it's a fair bit longer than the average attrition map, and that some people may get a little confused about what to do on the long beach because it's not crystal clear (although I've gotten stuck in a few attrition maps by overlooking minor things as well).

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 27 February 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

If I put out an update for the map, I'll put some extra handgun ammo there. I'm aware it's a fair bit longer than the average attrition map, and that some people may get a little confused about what to do on the long beach because it's not crystal clear (although I've gotten stuck in a few attrition maps by overlooking minor things as well).

There's a lot of maps that I include where it's easy to get stuck, but I include them because they are so good in other respects. The ideal maps for Attrition are 3DR styled, such as the original episodes and Metropolitan Mayhem.

[Micky C]

Btw are you looking for anymore dukematch arena style maps for the War of Attrition mode?

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 27 February 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Btw are you looking for anymore dukematch arena style maps for the War of Attrition mode?

Yes.

[king karl]

i like some of the maps from the duke is 10 anniversary pack maybe include some of those

and i like your option 2 but heres what i would do to balance it, put bonus weapons on the same slot as weapons that have little power later on ( pistol). and weapons that get enough use out of them anyways (shotgun)

as for the ammo, can you code a system that would randomly switch out some of the shot gun ammo in a level with the new ammo? like a 50/50 basis or something?

[Kyanos]

Micky C, on 27 February 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Btw are you looking for anymore dukematch arena style maps for the War of Attrition mode?

Trooper Dan, on 28 February 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yes.

Feel free to any of these three I made. Nice to see you're back on the scene

Drek, on 23 January 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

LOL, we could always play though, because we're closer. Micky wasn't getting so good results before this release candidate update. Also, I made a quick, fun DM map yesterday. It's up on steam. It's called The Courtyard. capt0000.png duke0001.png Courtyard.ziphttp://steamcommunit...s/?id=220020500

Spoiler

Gotta love copy/paste & sector flipping capt0002.png

Drek, on 27 January 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I made another quick fun DM map. capt0012.png capt0006.png Clifftop.ziphttp://steamcommunit...s/?id=221518669

Drek, on 09 February 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

I've gotten voxels in with a grp file and some new def code. Also, I ran evil.grp an older mod, saw some new art and heard new sounds, but didn't really test much. None of this is supported on the workshop at all though, only usermaps, supposedly with art, .ogg does work for music. I needed to use launch parameters to get any mods to load.

I'm publishing another DM map soon
Domination
Domination.png
added:
http://steamcommunit...s/?id=226451369
Domination.zip

[Danukem]

king karl, on 01 March 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

i like some of the maps from the duke is 10 anniversary pack maybe include some of those

and i like your option 2 but heres what i would do to balance it, put bonus weapons on the same slot as weapons that have little power later on ( pistol). and weapons that get enough use out of them anyways (shotgun)

as for the ammo, can you code a system that would randomly switch out some of the shot gun ammo in a level with the new ammo? like a 50/50 basis or something?

So here's what I have been doing. It's been going very very slowly because I'm only working on it about 15 minutes per day. As your starting weapon, you can choose pistol, lightning gun, flamethrower, or BFG. Choosing one weapon doesn't mean you can't get the other weapons, but they will be hard to find, and harder to get ammo for. Lightning is a subweapon of freezer, flamethrower is a subweapon of devastator, and BFG is a subweapon of RPG. They all have separate ammo and XP, just like shrinker and expander. I chose those slots because they make the most sense. As far as some weapons being weak in late game, that's a balance issue that I can address separately. Lightning gun is done and in-game, flamethrower is about 50% done, and BFG is 0% done.

[Danukem]

Still working on the new weapons and all their upgrades. But I'm going to take a step back from that and think about the menu that confronts players. Take a look at the attached image. It is ugly.

First of all, most of the selections are better described as "game modes" than "episodes", but there is no way to change the "Select an Episode" text AFAIK. Secondly, it's just an ugly presentation. I would prefer a set of icons or pictures representing the different selections, each accompanied by some text that explains the selection when it is highlighted by the mouse. But the last time I checked, there wasn't a satisfactory way of accomplishing this. Or am I wrong?

[Helixhorned]

Drawing stuff in addition to the hard-coded one should be achievable using EVENT_DISPLAYMENU or EVENT_DISPLAYMENUREST, conditional on the currently selected menu. As for removing things from the menu or making it behave in a different fashion, that may be possible by dirty hacking, but this is my opinion on that.

[Danukem]

Helixhorned, on 05 March 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Drawing stuff in addition to the hard-coded one should be achievable using EVENT_DISPLAYMENU or EVENT_DISPLAYMENUREST, conditional on the currently selected menu. As for removing things from the menu or making it behave in a different fashion, that may be possible by dirty hacking, but this is my opinion on that.

Drawing stuff is one thing, but how would I code a working mouse controlled cursor? The only way I know how to do it is in-game, where I can detect changes to the player's ang and horiz and apply them to the cursor position.