[OpenMaw]

Fox, on 07 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

The tilenum is labeled "LIZMANFEEDING" so I guess he is eating something. His own feces?

Oh. Oh, no...

Please, at least make it babies!

Achenar, on 06 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Has anyone ever bothered to ask "Why not" simply for the sake of closure?

The discussion is usually closed before that kind of question can be asked. It just won't happen.

[dnskill]

I agree, but I wish someone would interview them and put the question out that way.. Scott has done some interviews for people from YT (So has John Romero, JSJ, and many other guys from that era of FPS history).. Scott's video was well over 7 minutes long I believe, so if done right, I'm sure he'd answer.

Anyways.. Here's some more stuff to add..

This looks like the Battle Lord.. So maybe at one time the Battle Lord was a giant Pig Cop? Just look at the similarities!

Incredibly muscular, giant weapon with many barrels, armor, and the helmet looks almost exactly the same. Maybe the Battle Lord wasn't a Pig Cop at first, but they used this as inspiration to create him.

Maybe.. in time.. this guy will get a sprite set made by yours truly.

[Jimmy]

The helmet isn't similar at all. It's just a riot mask with the glass broken out.

[dnskill]

The way it arches out here is also shown in game.. but looking at it again, you're right, it doesn't look the same, and those might just be ears or spikes.

[Jimmy]

Yep, there are spikes on his back, and his ear is poking out. It's just a broken riot mask.

[Come On And Slam]

gerolf, on 07 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Hm, I noticed that it says "All Duke's guns chained together", and it looks a little bit like Duke's guns included an M16, a flamethrower, and a double barrel shotgun ... but maybe that was just for a generalization of what guns would look like tied up in a chain. Any thoughts?

[Jimmy]

It's concept art from 1994. Chuck probably just drew random weapons.

[OpenMaw]

Slippy_Pig, on 07 November 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Hm, I noticed that it says "All Duke's guns chained together", and it looks a little bit like Duke's guns included an M16, a flamethrower, and a double barrel shotgun ... but maybe that was just for a generalization of what guns would look like tied up in a chain. Any thoughts?

Yes, i'd imagine it was just for the sake of demonstrating the concept. At the time (1994/1995) they were still very much trying to figure out a lot of the games design. (Things like the Snake head, laser chainsaw, plasma gun were on the table.)

[MrFlibble]

gerolf, on 06 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Are these frames ever actually seen in the game? If so, what are the used for, and if not, what were they meant to be used for?

It looks like he's either looking down, or he's about to kill himself?

Norvak, on 07 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

According to the tile name he's feeding, I think they made it as another position when the player faces him, just like the liztroop sitting. It is used only in one of the screens in the buy menu on the shareware version. It would be cool if someone code it in a mod to actually work, at least there's actually a model in the HRP. I don't know if that's something useful though...

I also remember thinking how weird these sprites looked when I was checking out the game resources for probably the first time.

Maybe this was something akin to the Pig Cop's animation of hitting the player with the butt of the shotgun?

Also, slimers may eat corpses of other enemies (although this does not actually serve any purpose IIRC), could it be that the Enforcer would have a similar function?

[Fox]

Possible, it would make some sense in eating toasted corpses (since the Enforced used a flamethrower).

[Micky C]

MrFlibble, on 10 November 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Also, slimers may eat corpses of other enemies (although this does not actually serve any purpose IIRC)\

It does serve a purpose.

1) It's kinda cool.
2) On Damn I'm Good mode, having the slimers eat the dead corpses of bodies stops them from coming back to life and is a great way to make playing the game easier.

[MrFlibble]

Micky C, on 10 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

2) On Damn I'm Good mode, having the slimers eat the dead corpses of bodies stops them from coming back to life and is a great way to make playing the game easier.

You're right, I didn't think about it.

I meant that there's no purpose from the slimer's point of view - e.g. if a wounded monster would eat a corpse to regain health that would be kind of logical, right? But slimers have only 1 HP. For example, enemies in Blake Stone may pick up ammo clips dropped by downed guards and such, to replenish their ammo (or at least, they were advertised to be able to do that; I don't remember clearly if I ever encountered such a situation, since something that may have looked like a guard running away to pick up an ammo clip could have been just the AI trying to strafe or retreat).

[Fox]

Slimers also eat living enemies...

[t800]

It seems that to this moment we know at least two different beta versions of pigcop that predate current one from Duke3D.



I am interested more in older variant of pigcop from left picture. Do we have more screenshots with him? So far I have never seen any other, so I would be grateful for more.
There are two interesting things that got attention of my curiosity in left shot:
1) Their weapons look like combination of smg and double barrel shotgun. Was it intention of graphic artist (something like fully automatic shotgun -
for example Daewoo USAS 12) or was it just not enough refined art?
2) It looks like they have batons. Maybe they used them for melee attack? I heard that our current version of pigcop was also supposed to have melee attack. I dont understand why they removed it. Nuclear Showdown and AMC TC brought it back (and it fits well in game) and IMO making pigcops use bigger variety of attacks brings new tactic in fighting them.

[MrFlibble]

Good question, I wonder why they removed the bulletproof vest - would have made sense considering that Pig Cops sometimes drop used armour. The early version generally looks a lot better IMO.

[Fox]

The Pigcops still wear vests, however in the sprites they aren't of a distinct color.

[dnskill]

I'm late There are a few screenshots of the one on the left, and there's a few for the one on the right, it is even shown moving around in a video.

Hey, what do you all think PIGWRN.VOC is saying? To me it sounds like the Pig Cop is being possessed by an alien (example, in Blood's intro cinematic where the cultist is used to speak for the dark god). It sounds like it's saying "Prepare to die... Human!" I reversed it and there wasn't a reversed message to it IMO.

Also, do you think it's possible that a lot of these undefined sounds were just copies of other sounds at some point? There's a lot of unused sounds for the Sentry Drone that probably were for the Snake Head (which possible had art at one point). I think some of the exclusive sounds in DNTM were originally DN3D recordings perhaps (maybe not all of them)? I think DNZH too has DN3D sounds in it, not actually used in DN3D. Though it is JSJ doing the voice everytime, DN3D and DNZH voice sounds slightly different than what we had in DNMP, TTK, LOTB, and DNF.

[High Treason]

t800, on 11 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I am interested more in older variant of pigcop from left picture. Do we have more screenshots with him?

Try Computer Gaming World 132, Page 86, 88; http://img205.images.../6109/cgw86.png http://img824.images.../4945/cgw88.png

I think there are some more out there too. Those particular ones are from this post.

I was thinking of compiling all the beta shots from this thread into one archive and uploading it, probably along with the few Shadow Warrior and Blood ones I have (if I can find them).

By coincidence, if you like Blood and Shadow Warrior, look at these;
Blood:
http://www.oldgames....libur53-012.jpg
http://www.oldgames....e/016/blood.png
http://www.oldgames....Score32-023.jpg
http://www.oldgames..../riki28-046.jpg

Shadow Warrior:
http://www.oldgames....1996/52/009.jpg

[Gambini]

I dont understand shit

[MrFlibble]

High Treason, on 22 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

I was thinking of compiling all the beta shots from this thread into one archive and uploading it, probably along with the few Shadow Warrior and Blood ones I have (if I can find them).

BTW, here's a post in another forum with a selection of pre-release screenshots from Shadow Warrior, Duke Nukem 3D and Blood from the Terminal Velocity CD.

RTCM also hosts collections of pre-release shots fr om Build engine games, some of which were found within official preview packs and others on CD releases of games by 3DR. However, magazines still use a number of shots that had not been officially released through other media, and only a few of those seem to have found their way into public, like the shot discussed here, which I think isn't part of any official preview release (download or CD/other physical medium).

[NNC]

Just had a little time, and made a (hopefully) full list of unused respawn sprites from the original game, if you care:

Red Light District: there is a Reconcar R in the city area, and it's actually triggered in the blue key room along with other monsters. An inner game bug doesn't allow it to appear which results you always have 1 enemy left at the end of level despite killing all of them.

Red Light District: there is 4th Pigcop R in the explosion area with the red key door but it has a different tag.

Red Light District: there are 6 pal21 Liztroop Rs in the topless bar, but only 5 can be triggered with shooting the females. Two of them use the same tag number... (another glitch in the game that it doesn't reflect to respawn palettes except for bosses... fixed in DukePlus though).

Death Row: there is a liztroop R in the church and tagged but there is no place to trigger it. Possible trigger location might be somewhere at the entrance.

Toxic Dump: there is a liztroop R in the main shrinker area with a closed door. Tagged, but can't be triggered. Possible trigger location is the other shrinker room, maybe the switch itself.

Toxic Dump: there is an abandoned R in the big pool area. It has no tags, but it's close to an Octabrain R, so it could be used along with that.

Warp Factor: there are 2 Drone Rs in the area with the laser beams. They have a tag which seems related to the blue key.

Warp Factor: there are another 2 Drone Rs in the area with the Commanders etc. I think they could have used the same tag that can be triggered in the secret area.

Dark Side: two supposed Slimer Rs are incorrectly replaced with Slimer sprites in the blue key area. The slimers don't appear though, since they are tagged for unreachable skill settings.

Overlord: there is an Octa R in the vent area but it has no tag. There are several places where it can be used, I have no idea for this.

Bank Roll: there is a Pigcop R in the main street area with a tag. I have no idea what was the supposed place to trigger it.

Bank Roll: this is my particular favourite. There are 3 Pigcop and 2 Enforcer Rs in the area next to the red key door. They are tagged and should have been triggered in the blue key location. Too bad this one it had been dropped because it works well.

LA Rumble: there is a Commander R in the oval area with the Enforcers. IMHO it could have been triggered in one of the platforms when you jump from the rooftop to the other building. I tried it in the 2 Atomic health platform and it worked well.

LA Rumble: there are 2 Liztroop Rs right before the helicopter transport area (after the red key door). The area has some captains as well. They are tagged, and in my speculation they can be triggered somewhere in the "CEO" room.

Rabid Transit: just like in RLD, two female sprites use the same tag, which means one Octa R sprite can't be triggered.

Hotel Hell: this level has many of them... there are 2 PigCop Rs in the starting location. No idea where they should be triggered. Maybe in the final area with the Nukebutton...

Hotel Hell: there is one Enforcer R in the room with the trashcans. No idea again where it's supposed trigger location.

Hotel Hell: there is one Pigcop R and one Enforcer R in the street area with the opening windows. Again, there are many places where they could have been used. My preference was the upper platform with the atomic healths.

Babe Land: there is one Pigcop R which faces into the opposite direction to the other one which is triggered by red key access. It could have been used somewhere in the "Cart" section.

Babe Land: there are two Liztroop Rs in that weird house with those naked prisoners and pigcops behind the doors... They can be used somewhere... I don't care.


Next time I should scan the maps for unused security cameras (I know that Warp Factor and Rabid Transit have some). But I'm done now.

[Fox]

Thanks for the list. I guess that's the reason why they decided respawns would only increment the kills left count after they spawned.

[Mike Norvak]

Well in the latest EDuke if you press LShift over any sprite in 2D mode it shows up a red line pointing the linked tags, it would be useful for those respawns and see if there's a trigger somewhere in the map. Cool list BTW

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Norvak, on 16 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Well in the latest EDuke if you press LShift over any sprite in 2D mode it shows up a red line pointing the linked tags, it would be useful for those respawns and see if there's a trigger somewhere in the map.

This is a godsend. I'm glad that feature is in there.

[NNC]

Norvak, on 16 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Well in the latest EDuke if you press LShift over any sprite in 2D mode it shows up a red line pointing the linked tags, it would be useful for those respawns and see if there's a trigger somewhere in the map. Cool list BTW

Great feature, try it soon.

[MrFlibble]

Some time ago I've been checking old releases of the Duke Nukem 3D shareware version, and one glaring difference was that the yellow horizontal switch with a green and a red light has a completely different sprite compared to the registered version:


This version of the switch is very close to the one seen in LameDuke:


And since it is the same as in the leaked beta v0.99, my first thought was that it was just a leftover in versions 1.0 and 1.1 which was later replaced with the version that used in the full release. However, to my surprise, the same sprite of the switch is used in the shareware version 1.3D (the screenshot above is from v1.3D BTW). Now this makes me wonder, not a much why this was changed, but what other little differences there might be between the shareware version and the registered version (apart from the obvious ones like the absence of E1L7, or the word "ORDER" that is shown instead of the registered version weapons on the HUD)?

[Hendricks266]

I'm pretty sure that 3DR didn't feel like reprocessing the final v1.3D art tiles to remove all the stuff not used in the shareware for a third (fourth?) time, so they just reused the ones from v1.1.

[MrFlibble]

Ah, that sounds quite plausible. So are there any other differences left over from v1.0?

[TerminX]

Yeah, check the RPG projectile sprites. Those are different.

[NNC]

Launch Facility was a little different. The vent area can be reached without jetpack there, the underwater (slime) section had a masked wall instead of a solid wall that blocks your way to the secreat surface area, and that secret area didn't have the chaingun "room" as well. In The Abyss the door that led you to the final boss closed immediately after you enter the area, instead of closing only in that visibly lighter sector which happened in the registered version.