[Fox]

Leftover content in Duke Nukem 64 ROM - Part 7

Spoiler

Level extras


Starting locations



Player one starting location is missing the sector bit of information in the maps extracted from the ROM. in Build engine, besides the xyz coordinates, the sprites also have the sector information, which makes it possible to have multiple areas that coexist in the locations, an effect that has been widely used in Lunatic Fringe level.

In Lunatic Fringe, instead of starting near the original location of the PC version, the player start on the very other side of the 720º circle in mid of a bunch of enemies!



Since this is in the very same coordinates as the place you start in the actual game, was the player meant to start here instead?


Skies



The sky textures are not rendered in the actual game. In fact, most of the maps just replaced the skies with some random textures, making it really weird to look at them in a standard editor of Duke 3D. However Castle Dukenstein and Noctis Labyrinthus levels have been created with the skies in mind (which also mean they have been created very easly in development). These textures are interesting to check. Since the sky in Noctis Labyrinthus uses a palette, in the actual game projectiles will hit it as if there was a barrier.


Fog intensity



There has been some work with sector fog intensity in the maps. Despite that the visibility is leveled in the actual game.


Palettes



There is some work with palettes in the levels which cannot be seen in the actual game since most of the palettes have been removed. In the example above from Raw Meat, the microphone is green, the tables are blue and the Karaoke sign is grey.

Of course this may not be necessarily considered leftover content, since in Duke 3D some palettes are also replaced by the palette of the sector. In the example above, the tables would be completely blue regardless of the palette of the sprites themselves.

[dnskill]

Awesome stuff Fox. I think the Plasma Cannon is yellow and stuff because maybe they planned to have the Freezethrower?

I don't know if what I'm about to say is true or not, nor if it really fits here, but I don't think it needs its own topic.


If you look at the sprites of Duke Nukem in Lameduke, he looks very much like a toy (GI JOE) and if you look at early screenshots you can see the transformation of the Lameduke version to the final version. We already know that many of the enemies were based off of models, so it could be a possibility. If you look close enough at the Lameduke frames, it looks like the glasses were crudely put on. This may be because at one point they were going to keep Duke without shades like in the previous games, or it being my theory of it being based off of a toy).

Also, I believe this screenshot shows an alternative frame for when Duke dies (looks like he's fallen on his back).

See for yourself and decide.

 D3D01.png (22.67K)
Number of downloads: 1432

[Fox]

Hendricks266, on 06 July 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

The rank comparison for enemy names in Duke is a joke. To begin with, they use officer ranks instead of enlisted, and they flipflop between army and navy. Trooper and Enforcer aren't real ranks at all. I would suggest Assault Colonel as an unofficial name for the new trooper. General is too high a rank, that is something more like the Battlelord.

http://www.defense.g...s/officers.aspx

Just to point out that I have been looking for and I couldn't find any official source that refers to the enemy as Assault Enforcer, they seems to always call it just Enforcer.

[Hendricks266]

Sorry to send you on a wild goose chase. If anywhere it would have been in DN3DHELP.EXE but that is not the case.

On a related note, I believe I once saw the source text from that file, either from 3DR or extracted somehow, and I can't find it. Does anyone have it? It's personally important to me, because I read DN3DHELP.EXE when I first played Duke 3D (shareware) and was years away from playing the full game and what I imagined for the registered enemies and weapons was quite different. For example, I thought the Devastator was a pump-action rocket launcher like the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2.

[Fox]

It's not big deal, since I myself tought it was Assault Enforcer due to Internetz, I just went to check it for sure.

I looked over several manuals of Duke 3D, which erroneously typically include several pre-release data, but also at the differing manuals from console ports, and all just call it "Enforcer". Even 3D Realms XBLA walkthrough makes no mention of it. If anyone wants to know, the official name for the smaller Battlelord is "Battlelord Sentry", but it seems common to not make such distinction in the name.

[dnskill]

I use to call them Moose men.

Hendricks266, on 19 August 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

On a related note, I believe I once saw the source text from that file, either from 3DR or extracted somehow, and I can't find it. Does anyone have it? It's personally important to me, because I read DN3DHELP.EXE when I first played Duke 3D (shareware) and was years away from playing the full game and what I imagined for the registered enemies and weapons was quite different. For example, I thought the Devastator was a pump-action rocket launcher like the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2.

I have a lot of files, I can look for you. I found something called DUKE3D.IDF and I have no clue what it does. I found "3DREALMS.FAQ" and "APOGEE.FAQ" maybe they have something?

[Lunick]

gerolf, on 19 August 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

I use to call them Moose men.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who did this...

[dnskill]

Lunick, on 19 August 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who did this...

I also thought the Assault Troopers/Captains were Humanoid Tigers. Though Pig Cops, Octobrains, Battlelords and Slimers,I always knew what they were called. I didn't get the Atomic Edition when Duke 3d was considered a new game. However I did have the DC expansion.. And to possibly add more to this topic:

I remember in one level in DC, it made my computer crash (really crash, remember when games did that?). I remember it made the screen multiply into what it was showing when it froze,(It was in a bathroom vent thing) then it gave the BSOD. So, Duke it Out in DC had many glitches and bugs.

[Fox]

Not really, sounds just like a sector-over-sector overlay error.

[dnskill]

Fox, on 20 August 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

Not really, sounds just like a sector-over-sector overlay error.

Call it whatever you want, but the computer NEVER worked again, and I was so devastated.

[Fox]

Well, probably there was other problems with your computer. If an obese men has a heart attack eating an hamburger, should you be scared of taking a bite of that same hamburger?

[High Treason]

I don't want to eat any food that has been in someone elses mouth, I'll buy my own burger.

Sound to me like a component in your computer failed at the moment the game crashed, if it had been crashing for a while, that component was already failing. Due to the fact that games tend to stress several components of the computer I'd say that was why you ran into the issue more there, possibly DukeDC used slightly more RAM or CPU than vanilla Duke and therefore caused your computer to crash more often.

[Fox]

I couldn't recognize these two sounds from Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown, they are listed among the generic player sounds, but they don't match any sound from the PC. They resemble GASP.voc, but that sound is already included (in fact it is listed right before these two sounds).

Attached File(s)

•  E1L1_00063.wav (21.29K)
  Number of downloads: 1033
•  E1L1_00064.wav (25.45K)
  Number of downloads: 1081

[TerminX]

I'd never seen a decent image of the back of this particular box before. Lots of raw model render/beta sprite goodness there.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Oh, I remember those screensavers! I never did quite understand how the Carnage Meter was supposed to work...

[Jblade]

Wow, that looks like some kind of Enforcer/Liz-troop hybrid sitting on that explosion there Duke's model is way more detailed too, they must be actual model renders as opposed to just sprites.

[Jimmy]

That's a very early design of the Assault Trooper, I didn't even know that got past concept art.
Seen here:

Spoiler

Those are likely just the renders that got scaled down into sprites.

[Fox]

These models are not scaled down, look closely.

It's still possible that the Liztroop didn't made it on sprites, but at least they created a model.

[Jimmy]

I know they're not, that's why I said they were probably the renders that got scaled down into sprites.

[t800]

I know that maybe I will sound childishly naive, but I just dont understand why old alpha versions (made between lameduke and 0.99) cant be released to public. When 3d Realms in 1996 released lameduke, it was all right. But now it is impossible? I am not well acquainted in questions of who has rights to them. Gearbox, probably? But why cant they release them? I cant imagine how would that damage sales of DNF or commercial use of Duke IP. What is the point in holding such old alpha testing verions trapped in old dusty hard disks? They cant harm anyone.

Some of you consider effort in search for these versions futile - "They are probably lost, damaged, in unplayable state, etc."
I DO believe that these old versions are still stored somewhere safely (3drealms seemed to me like company that backed up all its important data, even old alpha testing versions of ther games).
Unplayble state - possible, but that still doesnt diminish thier significance. Even if they were impossible to play or even run in dosbox, I wouldnt mind because their geatest importance is in thier data - maps, sprites, etc. that still could be harvested from them.

It would be symbolical gift for all Dukers if anyone holding their rights would release them in 2016 - on 20th Anniversary Of Duke Nukem 3D.

Well, it is time to get back to dreaming. *sigh*

EDIT: I am interested in your opinions. What do you think are the main reasons why holders of rights dont want to release these alphas?

[Jimmy]

It's primarily just laziness. Not wanting to bother.

[Fox]

It's also reasonable to say that they may not even have it anymore. I don't think that in 90's developers had the insight of saving the BETA or ALPHA releases for future generations.

[Fox]

For the sake of it, when I stalked contacted Will Beacham (who worked on the maps of Duke Nukem 64) a few years ago, these are the messages I got from him:

Spoiler

Quote

Yes, I am. Who are you?

Quote

Heh…. That screenshot of the Dukeburger loading bay does indeed bring back memories – I spent a long time changing the strip club into that scene to avoid offending Nintendo. That was a LONG time ago though, so I’m not sure what useful information I can give you.

Quote

No, afraid not – it was my first project at Eurocom and I left there some years ago, so any assets are long gone.

Quote

Kev is in Australia now – we worked together for a long time before we’d had enough of Eurocom. I strongly doubt he’s got any assets though – developers generally don’t keep things like that themselves, they’re the property of the company.

Good luck with the project though. Glad you liked it – it was a blast to work on, especially when I was just starting out in the industry.

Quote

1 - We used Build to make the maps, yes. (We actually used it to make maps for Duke Nukem: Zero Hour too, although with custom functionality added by our coders).

2 – No. Well, I didn’t anyway, and I’m not aware that Kev did. We weren’t making new maps for the most part after all, but basing them on existing ones - although we did edit them to make them look better (e.g. added content beyond the dead-end walls in the streets), add a lot of secret areas, tweak enemy spawn points to keep things interesting, and rework areas to meet Nintendo approval standards.

3 – All games need more time.

Quote

We didn't worry about monster spawn points linked to the babes since we
weren't going to trigger them.

I can't remember why we didn't spawn in monsters after you rescued a
babe - it would have made a nice risk / reward mechanic. We probably
wanted to reinforce the idea that it was a positive thing to do (rather
than killing strippers) to keep Nintendo happy, if we really thought
about it at all.

[MrFlibble]

Regarding recent controversy with the pre-release shot of Duke3D, here are some more mag scans with shots, some of which have a similar HUD design:
http://www.oldgames....bur-51/page/18/
http://www.oldgames....bur-51/page/19/

BTW, the same shot as in Mikko Pekkola's post is seen on the first page (left column).

[TerminX]

Well, I'll be damned. Nice find!

[Fox]

Interesting that there are pictures of Seweeney and Sewers.

In case nobody noticed, you can see an Enforcer using the flamethrower, and the fire is being displayed on top of the player weapon.

[Jimmy]

Very nice! I have some of those screenshots in better quality, and they've been available for ages, but some of those shots are new. Thanks!

[MrFlibble]

What keeps me wondering about Duke3D is that I can't remember a single level that would use pushable blocks. It's such a notable feature in Powerslave for example (and generally an improvement over other 2.5D engines that was added in Build), and it allows for some nice puzzles and level design, but somehow it seems to me that it was left unused (or underused) in the most well-known Build game.

Am I wrong here?

[Micky C]

There were a lot of cool cut features in Duke 3D, such as a lot of levels (some of them came back in The Birth), and items such as the Spacesuit that allows you to walk in a vacuum (and jump around in low grav!!!). One early magazine even mentioned being able to break windows in space then all the enemies get sucked out and killed, which sounds pretty neat. So considering all the stuff they cut, I'm not surprised if they didn't have time to code in a feature such as that.

Another problem is that players might use the objects in ways that were not originally intended, and they could cheat and skip parts of levels.Oh wait what am I thinking? This is Duke 3D not DNF. In Duke 3D there was nothing wrong with having the ability to skip parts of levels say with the jetpack, and of course back then the levels were actually good enough enough that you wouldn't want to skip parts in the first place. DNF on the other hand... (Seriously though it probably might have led to extra blocking of walls or something)

Mappers these days are free to use the feature in DukePlus though.

[KareBear]

MrFlibble, on 14 October 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

What keeps me wondering about Duke3D is that I can't remember a single level that would use pushable blocks. It's such a notable feature in Powerslave for example (and generally an improvement over other 2.5D engines that was added in Build), and it allows for some nice puzzles and level design, but somehow it seems to me that it was left unused (or underused) in the most well-known Build game.

Am I wrong here?

I noticed that too while playing Powerslave/Exhumed recently.Its pretty jarring considering the rest of the game (the control scheme for example) is so archaic compared to the "Big Four" Build games.