[ck3D]

Maybe some minor mistakes left (definitely some slight TROR portal funkiness) but tested several times and good enough just in time for D3D's 30th. Should run fine in classic/software, absolutely no idea about how other renderers may perform.

First level in my upcoming episode; see .txt.

Basic user map + MIDI format. Current par time in episode user.con (not included) set to 15:00 and no 3DR time, feel free to let me know your times (casual runs or not) and ultimately I might use them.

Oh yeah I know the RPV's technically bug out but left them like that on purpose so they act like they guard key areas. Somehow when TROR interferes like this, they do not look confused/get lost and it looks legit.

[Dr.Panico]

Congrats on the release!
This one took me 35 minutes and I still missed a few enemies and most secrets.

So far, so good. I haven't noticed any particular glitches. Everything seems to work as intended. As for visuals and gameplay, they were top-notch as always. I must've missed the Expander somewhere, since the map gives a lot of ammo for it (and I could've used it in the last battle).
Getting inside the Million Dollar theater was a little confusing, but it's nothing too obscure fortunately. In general, the layout is well-put together and the visuals are neat.

[ck3D]

Thank you once again for playing and the feedback.

Yes there is a Shrinker in the map, depending on what the player does after they have found the key, they are more or less likely to find it.

Just replayed the level. Can confirm no major issues, only minor visual ones if you really look out for them, and last but not least the ultimate explosion in the level doesn't go off despite being set up (surely a simple MASTERSWITCH hitag thing) but I like that, will make it cooler to replay in the final episode with fireworks at the end there (and on my end the work is already spent).

[ck3D]

OK I wasn't going to let people hanging without the aforementioned fireworks (it's not even much but it is the proper finale). This version of the map fixes the explosion (as expected was stupid MASTERSWITCH mistake) and also adjusts some visual errors here and there, I still have some stuff that breaks (handful of Cyclers failing) but nothing I will fix before the final episode release, none of the adjustments will be practical and thus matter at this point.

Sorry for double post, website doesn't let users edit posts after a four-hour window limit.

Attached File(s)

•  DNVL1 beta release.rar (125.81K)
  Number of downloads: 32

[unedukecated]

Took me like 30 mins on CGS, found all secrets since there are only a few. Map can be played in Polymer, brightness and general lighting looks a bit better there I'd say, performance gets a bit slowed down in some outdoor areas indicated by FPS turning red - just like in my current map. Still decently playable so it's fine, also tried with Polymost which is kinda too dark in some places but that was the intention anyway I think.

Layout is nice, good city vibes and lots of TROR and the cinemas connected is very neat. A good portion to explore, finding secrets, solving puzzles etc. Well done!

Some points of critique containing spoilers:

Spoiler

doesn't feel much Dukeish to be honest. Scaling is a bit odd (I accidently wrote "off" first, fits too) here and there (for example road is huge, then some other things are tiny) and item distribution is suboptimal - usually there are tons of them everywhere which feels like too much making it too easy to proceed - but then, there are also the sentries in some area and there is like zero health - had my first rip in first playthrough there xD Funny how a vent, considered a safe space, is actually the most lethal place in this map - at least to me.

[ck3D]

Thanks for playing and commenting, happy you liked the layout, was really fun to put together.

I know what you mean about the scale, it is the one I've figured over time actually is optimal for this game, a game like Ion Fury that plays more sophisticated can afford to look more sophisticated but Duke moves as fast as a skateboarder and when on roids faster than a truck (can catch up with own launched rockets), and so you want curbs that feel like ledges and props that sometime look comically tall (in the comic book sense, the base game is quite full of them) so that they can fully perform gameplay function (e.g.. cover), otherwise from a pure performance perspective arguably may or may not be a waste to make three-inch little curbs that will barely even alter enemy height, etc. But it can be a bit distressing from player POV at first if one is expecting realism rather than suggestion, I know it took me a bit to understand it the first few times I played a Billy Boy or WG map but once you do there is no real turning back. Maybe sometime check out Military Madness by Ale and then WGHotelHell back to back and you should immediately get what I mean. Mostly it is just going with the dimensions inherent to the game due to the movement, hitboxes and collisions and that has to come with some abstraction. (Shin rather than ankle-high red curbs aren't necessarily uncommon in real life either, saw so many of those around California; they look funny there too.)

Also it is all to be relativized by how now 16384 walls is more than enough for both bold and fine detail, but things like curbs, vehicles, fences and crates are major structural elements and so deserve to stand/stick out, literally. E.g.. any counter in a shop or bar can be just a prop if too small or its own game of peek-a-boo vs. stayput enemies if large enough, but in reality that is just mapping on the scale the game (not engine here) expects in order to work best at least the way I like it.

Item distribution the map indeed is very generous, but as the first level of an episode should work (still noting/reserving the idea to cut a few items if over time stand out as overkill). What matters is no one should have found any explosive but 1/ parking lot tripmines and/or 2/ unmarked secret pipebomb before reaching the cinema. As a standalone/single map release now yes distribution would be suboptimal but then so would be the layout too, episode level and user map must obey to different scopes of composition altogether otherwise would be no appropriate scaled buildup and good pacing.

Fun fact about this map: the broken keypad actually has a chance to malfunction (but there is another way around the door if it does), and when it does and you keep refilling on keys with DNKEYS to keep feeding it, eventually EDuke starts rejecting the sprite in a funny way. I know how to do it nearly on command and think I understand what is happening (to an extent) but is better if I don't explain much more about it. (If the behavior ever has to be fixed then I don't care, but I suspect it's in part a game side thing since works similar to a popular speedrun trick.)

[stillTodd]

Frustrated that my temporary situation here means not playing these for a bunch of days. Glad and grateful to see them. I'll do my usual cheap 11yo laptop + DukePlus tryout and report back in the latter half of next week

Thank you and way, way looking forward to the experience. I might be in fresher laptop buying mode!

[ck3D]

Just skimmed through your most recent post history page to check on your situation exactly and I'm actually curious, sounds like your issue is your current setup can not run maps with TROR at all since you also couldn't play pepso's E-I-E-I-(annoyed grunt)? That is interesting to me seeing as I also am using rather ancient hardware (possibly older than some people playing the game at this point), but TROR is smooth for me (when cleanly made) in software mode, which is supposedly more expensive than Polymost except I can not even run Polymost altogether without unplayable lag (let alone Polymer). Alien Armageddon also runs well for me in classic mode in spite of being a Polymost mod, the voxels load, etc. (it actually is pretty amazing how software compatible it really is). Either way both those maps have reasonable TROR, lots of it but isolated enough it shouldn't perform too crazy but perhaps in a couple of spots. It will get less pedestrian later though.

This specific episode, the maps are designed (ideally) with most type of EDuke mod compatibility in mind and should not be a problem to play in DukePlus, AA, Legacy, etc. as long as post 2023 EDuke is supported.

[stillTodd]

Oh it's not a functional issue at all, it's totally performance Thinkpad Helix 2nd Gen, 8Gb, Win10 and a Core M 5Y71. Fanless, in a tablet format (with good detachable keyboard). It's pretty cool still (somehow) and I bought a few used ones, one of which runs Mint for my Mom.

I'm thinking the SSD may have performance issues, so I'm going to try imaging over to another, fresher one and see how things transpire.

Edit: I know the ropes with this stuff, and at a certain point it just becomes cheaper to pick up something better, used. Plus it would have a better screen and likely a keyboard with more travel. I don't know if it's just me, but I prefer a good laptop keyboard vs a full sized one nowadays - I can type more quickly.

[unedukecated]

@ck3d: I don't know what you mean, yes I prefer realism above all (?) or at least most other things. So to say you have to make a road huge and add (huge?) curbs sounds hilarious to me. Steriods - the most useless item in DN3D. I never use them, I never place them. Who really *needs* it anyway? It's super short and movement is awful on steriods, yes you are faster and maybe can jump a little more far, but for what purpose? It's not trickjumping like guys did/do in Quake III Arena. Although I guess some guys actually made maps where you would really need steriods to proceed, but whatever. I have a tiny puzzle involving speed in my new map but there's no need for steriods. Anyway I don't think a huge road is really needed (!), and certainly no biiiiiiiig curbs.
I have also played "Military Madness" now for the first time, that level doesn't feel very Dukeish either. It's short, straight-forward, repetitive, overrated and yet technically supreme in terms of how it was built, but no more. Visuals clearly lack variety there. And yes scaling is a little bit of an issue there too, although it kinda fits there because there is like no reason to jump - so low ceilings are okay there. Any original DN3D map is better than that in my eyes...

I also don't want to argue with you about the other stuff like item distribution. I get it you have your reasons and will find an "excuse" for everything now - just like I did when defending my first map.

[ck3D]

I don't have the time for this but will still dignify your reply with a response, you're wrong about steroid use (when it's not abuse), dimensions (practical ones) and I think you're being your own enemy when it comes to edukecating yourself when people offer help but you were not expecting how seriously you would be taken. Because that is just what it is, is it not? I don't think any mapper has any business projecting any complicated feeling of self-worth over the hobby or whatever. Yes someone who has made 200 maps is going to be more likely to have 'reasons' about their choices than need 'excuses' compared to a newcomer, I mean it's a lot of time spent looking out for the reasons why this engine even works just mathematically (to then do your part as a larger community member and transmit), and that doesn't even invalidate the newcomer which would be one leap in logic already (i.e.. how does that magically appear into the equation?). Heck, newcomer sometimes can be right over the OG and offer fresh perspective (whole point of e.g.. watching player footage, etc.) but is this the case here I wouldn't know. You're probably just projecting past experiences of condescending people bullying you in the past or whatever; fuck them, not me as someone who has spent the time engaging about your work or the heron will break into your kitchen at night and make a mess of all your sectors and walls.

Tying this back to level design nerd talk I am absolutely with you on Military Madness, that is exactly why I was saying compare it to WGHotelHell. One of the directions very obviously is wiser than the other extreme (= one of the maps isn't flat with random pseudo-detail protruding into 5 of your body parts on every frame). But maybe don't read too much into it or might end up inventing that I said only one style has to exist or some other post-reality bull. No map is perfect means every map is unique and precious for it.

[stillTodd]

Hey ck3D! I subconsciously sprained my knee, in order to free up time to test drive DNLV1 on my current system.

First - man it's good looking! I'm a big fan of this style. For DukePlus, akimbo pistols early on are a good thing, and there's one staring at the player upon map load.

I'm gonna go shopping for a laptop (used, cheap, Thinkpad w/thinkpoint) to run these maps. A few of your previous ones were also unsupported (performance-wise) by this Helix, so I haven't played them, dnkroz notwithstanding.

[lllllllllllllll]

Never seen a manhole used like that

and for a split second I thought you somehow placed a light bulb

[ck3D]

Oh yeah that one sloped ceiling sprite thing? Clearly the strangest thing in the map. For the longest time I had the map progression a bit stricter, no explosives including tripmines or secret pipebombs until the first toilet and then traversal between the back room floors was one-way only so Duke had to blow up the correct screen out of both, or otherwise felt like penalty/random waste of time barely even compensated for by the ammo cache. In an introductory level would have been a bit mean (but otherwise a good trick) and so I thought I'd simplify the traversal at all and just add a little platform. Sprite choice highlights the hole in the same (to me semi-pointless) fashion sector lights do on matching top floor etc... to make sure a rushing player can't miss it, which honestly they might since TROR is still relatively fresh (it's old now but in practice still timidly used) and thus unexpected to find. Would be cool to make a product that can teach players to look up and down more. Funnily sloped sprites look bogus too but in a strangely attractive way, for instance that specific one looks so odd and out of place you can't help but imagine and test theory by jumping onto it.

stillTodd: so sorry about the knee, I know how bad that can be and how frustrating because it is such an important body part, I hope you get better soon and the culprit wasn't a shin-high curb. Stoked you like the style. It isn't so inspired really but by some of the original levels (released or unreleased), most of the maps in the episode are bound together by my style in order to work but otherwise patchworks of existing thematics.