[Forge]

ck3D, on 13 November 2022 - 11:14 PM, said:

from that point on if anyone's delicate little feathers get ruffled then the problem is on them.

always has been
that's pretty much been the point

[jkas789]

@ ck3D

I disagree with your last post, but luckily we can all live with having different opinions.

@ReaperAA

Quote

To be fair, regarding the crucified Lara Croft in Ascension, it wasn't the easter egg itself that was too problematic but rather was another misogynistic conduct by one of the authors, Shadowman. Many of their previous works also had this type of stuff and arguably far more than the Lara easter egg. Likely that it was the last straw that broke the camel's back case I feel. Ultimately, Big Memka, the other author of Ascension did ended up releasing the wad on DW with the easter egg removed

Oh fuck off mate. So you can't have men being brutally tortured to death, impaled, cut in half with their bowels hanging, crucified and a map where you literally have to kill a fetus to win but when its a woman suddenly it is morally wrong?

The double standards are insane. And of course it has to be misogynistic right?

What a fucking joke.

Also if anyone has the original map of Ascension please share it so that I can host it in as many sites as I can.

[Danukem]

MC84, on 13 November 2022 - 10:34 PM, said:

For me this sums it up perfectly. As someone who has been working quietly on my own personal mod since 2016 I find it laughable that a newbie/potential build enthusiast will throw in the towel because of some fringe/offensive comments in the general discussion page... I mean c'mon! If that's all it takes to take the wind out of your sails, then you've got ZERO chance learning mapster, blender, GIMP, CON coding, and whatever other related programs to make your vision a reality.

I tend to agree in principle, but it's quite possible that some people have left or stayed away from the forum due to things they saw **outside** the general discussion section. In particular, I seem to recall a few times when flaming broke out in the general gaming section. For example, someone gives a game a negative review and a fan argues with them and it gets heated. Or there's a debate about Duke Nukem games and how they couldn't be made today which leads to a political fight. Those kinds of situations definitely require moderation to keep the forum civil and welcoming.

Right now this is a non-issue, though -- the general gaming section is as peaceful as could be.

[ck3D]

Jimmy, on 13 November 2022 - 11:21 PM, said:

You're not very good at being disingenuous.

I don't like disingenuous. I post with my heart.

[Forge]

Danukem, on 13 November 2022 - 11:28 PM, said:

Right now this is a non-issue, though -- the general gaming section is as peaceful as could be.

most of the time - until someone makes a map/mod that pits ukranians vs russians

[Jimmy]

Damn, he made a post with less than a paragraph. Didn't have much to say about that.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 13 November 2022 - 11:31 PM, said:

I don't like disingenuous. I post with my heart.

i don't agree with some of your posts, but I don't have to and you don't have to pander to me. It's all fine. Glad you decided to drop a few lines of text anyway.
You don't make up random stuff on the fly and pretend everyone else has to change the laws of physics

[Phredreeke]

Radar, on 13 November 2022 - 07:43 PM, said:

There's a fourth option you're not considering: it's that people like me sit at the edge of my seat in laughter at the mental gymnastics and textwalls you write about a harmless cartoon frog.

100% this.

Jimmy, on 13 November 2022 - 10:54 PM, said:

You ever notice that all the regulars who post here either generally like each other or at the very least tolerate one another, and it is always outsiders who clearly do not like pretty much anyone who posts here that insist the forum is full of "toxic" behavior? The Outhouse has consistently maintained itself as the most civil part of the forum because it excludes outsiders by design. The Outhouse was supposed to be a way to contain "problematic" posts. All it really did was expose outsiders as the problem. And that does not mean "new people" as there are rather new posters right here in this thread defending this place that they like.

Gay🌈

Jimmy, on 13 November 2022 - 10:54 PM, said:

And what's funny is that despite the "woke" takeover of the Doom community they can never change the fact that the most popular mod ever made continues to be an over the top male fantasy simulator with blood and guts and heavy metal music made by some weightlifting Nazi from Brazil.

Yeah. And most people on here don’t particularly like the mod. So much for being alt right dudebros.

ReaperAA, on 13 November 2022 - 11:11 PM, said:

And regarding the BoA issue. I actually agree that DW mods might have gone too far with the change list, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was partially done to screw / get rid of Tormentor, who in recent years had become a nuisance due to stuff like plagiarizing maps or writing grand essays about quitting Doom and yet still coming back.

How is this not toxic as fuck?

Forge, on 13 November 2022 - 11:12 PM, said:

they tried to gaslight about why eduke32 isn't popular
they tried to gaslight why the duke3d community has dwindled
they tried to gaslight about why the doom community isn't toxic
everyone on here is a right winger(this can't be serious) - somebody should inform balls of steel

Probably because they had the same thing done to them. It’s a bit like Scientology in a way.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Jimmy, on 13 November 2022 - 10:54 PM, said:

Duke Nukem is a strong white straight Christian male Republican American patriot and there's nothing anyone can ever do about it.

He is a parody of one. That's the odd thing that's happened with the fan base. If you look outside this place, like talking to people who played the games when they were young or on some Facebook group, generally everyone gets that Duke is a parody of 80s action movie tropes. But on here people take his character almost completely at face value. Also probably because Western culture has softened to such an amazing degree that people elevate these satirical figures from the past as legitimate hero archetypes to emulate or look up to, which I kinda get, but at least have some awareness about it.

ReaperAA, on 13 November 2022 - 11:11 PM, said:

To be fair, regarding the crucified Lara Croft in Ascension, it wasn't the easter egg itself that was too problematic but rather was another misogynistic conduct by one of the authors, Shadowman. Many of their previous works also had this type of stuff and arguably far more than the Lara easter egg. Likely that it was the last straw that broke the camel's back case I feel. Ultimately, Big Memka, the lead author of Ascension did end up releasing the wad on DW with the easter egg removed.

I get that the hosts of a website reserve the right to which kind of content they will allow, but personally I find it bullshit reasoning. Maybe I hate women, though. Can never make my mind up on that one.

Point is, either allow or don't allow, don't force the modder to alter their personal work to please you. Don't even accept it if they want to do that. That's perverse and lowers everybody's dignity as a human being. It lowers art itself.

ck3D, on 13 November 2022 - 11:14 PM, said:

I think you severely underestimate the number of sincere artists who can barely tolerate some of the vibes on here and just keep the attitude and comments to themselves because they know better than repeatedly butting their head against online stupidity (in general). That wall has been cracked now though. Why do you think all the best or current active mappers barely ever post but bare download links to their work? I don't think I ever even shared any of my political opinions on this website either and yet now apparently just for reporting the actuality of an issue (not even calling it major) I belong to this or that group. Are you sure there's no problem here? Starting to feel less and less like foreign perception to me and again, just saying.

100% agreed. Dude, you and I both know people who left this place because they didn't wanna be on the same website as bona fide neo-Nazi (and I completely accept him as a human being; that's me personally, though) or people who write things like "n***er skull ventilation". The screenshots that were taken here were passed around as far and wide as Facebook. When I was arguing the same things that Reaper_Man was, 3 modders contacted me saying that they're inactive or barely participate because they legitimately feel threatened by the people around here. Don't take my word for it, though. ck3D has been an active member and mapper for how many years now? I would take his word over mine or some random shitposters any day. IRL people who actually MAKE THINGS are the shy mildly autistic types, they're not the loudmouths that wanna spout off about some extraneous crap that's got nothing to do with gaming. But they bring that general attitude even into gaming related subjects.

It's like imagine living in the ghetto, and there are aggressive people all around you. You know the crime rate is high. Maybe nothing's happened to you personally, but you still feel at unease. Well, maybe you can't move, but you'd really like to. If the ghetto is a website, it's easier than ever to leave. You don't wanna dignify a public toilet by hanging a Picasso on its wall. It'll just get smeared with feces.

Maybe some people are into that too. I don't judge. Just saying what happens.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Btw, it's hilarious to read the mischaracterizations and misreadings of ck3D's posts. This is exactly the kind of situation where a creative nerd-type who actually provides content (and clearly possesses a high IQ) that the website is designed for, enters a discussion with people who only passively consume content, or create the equivalent of shit smeared Picasso's. You're all absolute losers, you must know that, right? ck won't tell you that, he's far too nice and understanding, so my opinion is not his, but I absolutely think this is the case.

If anything is valid about the way things are run here is that at least you can insult other members, even getting really personal, bringing their private lives into it. (Dan might indicate that this has changed, but I guess we'll find out sooner or later.)

I mean I'm hilariously a case in point about what kind of people end up on Duke4. By process of selection, you get people who are banned from everywhere else. I have a permanent IP ban on Reddit for example.

I legitimately do not give a fuck about what anyone tells me if I think it's bullshit. I'll treat you like a two-bit whore just because I can.

The only difference between me and some other shitposter is self awareness. I know I'm flawed. I don't pretend to be some misunderstood nice guy.

jkas789, on 13 November 2022 - 10:19 PM, said:

I'm not saying everyone is an angel (I'm looking at you Aristotle Gumball) here but come on.

The only reason you can say anything to me about my character is because I've openly admitted to the things I've done first. In reality I am a better human being than a lot of you. I notice when I've wronged someone. I am always trying to analyze and correct my behavior. Most people will never ever do that. They won't open themselves up to public scrutiny the way I have. I am brute forcing progress, mentally and spiritually, all the time, by any means necessary.

PS. Being mean can be even be positive in many cases, such as when dealing with other assholes. I never got anywhere with anybody here until I started saying retard and faggot and tranny. That should tell you something. At the same time, the feeling remains that if I ran this website (not that I'd want to or pretending like anyone wants me to), I'd just ban the whole lot of you and only keep the actively intelligent (and not cucked or leftist) productive members.

Discrimination is important. That's how you get things that are good.

[Danukem]

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:01 AM, said:

He is a parody of one. That's the odd thing that's happened with the fan base. If you look outside this place, like talking to people who played the games when they were young or on some Facebook group, generally everyone gets that Duke is a parody of 80s action movie tropes. But on here people take his character almost completely at face value. Also probably because Western culture has softened to such an amazing degree that people elevate these satirical figures from the past as legitimate hero archetypes to emulate or look up to, which I kinda get, but at least have some awareness about it.

Duke was a parody based on movie action heroes, but he was also supposed to be kinda cool. He wasn't a figure of ridicule. I think the version of him in DNF did become a joke though.

By the way, Jimmy baited you. I really don't think Jimmy cares about whether Duke Nukem is a Christian or what political party he belongs to. (Certainly, most of us who make content for Duke 3D don't care). But sure, I can believe that some fanboys these days do care.

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:01 AM, said:

100% agreed. Dude, you and I both know people who left this place because they didn't wanna be on the same website as bona fide neo-Nazi (and I completely accept him as a human being; that's me personally, though) or people who write things like "n***er skull ventilation". The screenshots that were taken here were passed around as far and wide as Facebook.

The person you describe as a neo-Nazi is gone though (no evidence was actually presented to show that he was, either) and the post you refer to was quickly removed at the time. These are the same things you talked about years ago, before you left and came back.

[ck3D]

Forge, on 13 November 2022 - 11:40 PM, said:

i don't agree with some of your posts, but I don't have to and you don't have to pander to me. It's all fine. Glad you decided to drop a few lines of text anyway.
You don't make up random stuff on the fly and pretend everyone else has to change the laws of physics

About the second part, no when that actually is the case, for sure, that's fine. The first part I already am taking for granted and expect no less from any other user in return. I think disagreeing is cool and meant to be an enriching experience and not a personally engaging or challenging fight but against one's own limitations (we all have them).

Things as I see them: I came into here almost sorry to have to report on the actuality of an issue based on what I've factually been seeing and hearing throughout the years from various profiles in my immediate (online, mapping) circles (because mappers just so happen to talk to each other), also specifying I personally didn't really care whether the vibe check was justified or not. Since that wasn't desired information, it was instantly diminished by the assumption I had to be talking about casual or newbie mappers a.k.a. 'uncool' when I'm really talking about some of the main heads in the game or at least user mapping scene throughout the past decade - but that's fine since I'm regularly facing the opposite assumptions whenever I'm brought to defend this place and its people.

I then posted what I still think is a pretty federating message (although strongly worded) essentially encouraging anyone on here to try and maybe look better than a Vice tag cloud from the yesteryear in their posting if said information of relative unpopularity I brought ever happened to be a serious problem (I guess that's on an individual basis, too). Open advice and obviously unpopular, but honest because I do care.

Next thing I know I'm in a political box, which is the exact same thing I've seen people complain about in posts just above mine, when I never expressed anything about my political views (they're really not that interesting - blah blah general disbelief), my posts get lumped in with someone else's on the sole basis of equally not fitting the status quo, people spout things I never cared for at me like I suddenly am a window into some imaginary enemy and puppies start barking. And then suddenly it's trans rights and I have an agenda, all for delivering a message that obviously isn't all mine, since I positively am around, but now may be starting to understand a bit more.

All I'm saying: do you (rhetorical), but also don't be surprised to be told your toilet stinks when you put zero effort into its cleaning, whatever it is that you're dumping. Now no one has to care about presentation if popularity doesn't concern them. All basic logic and common sense.

@Danukem: I appreciate you thinking about this thread, but I wouldn't want you to waste your time trying to find or draw parallels with specific public or known events since I'm paraphrasing exactly is years of constant off-site reports and private complaints by really tons of mappers with more humility and discretion than myself (some still active but distant from the boards and unwilling to engage nor put up with it, some gone). As a moderator, I really don't think you have to take any change in action at all, or anything. I've offered ideas on how everyone could help improve the situation by maybe watching their form if they cared, since I think form and not substance may be the root issue, now what anyone eventually does I honestly don't care. I'm not certain anyone in particular can magically improve the Internet but by the quality of their participation.

[Phredreeke]

There are apparently a vast amount of alienated mappers yet no one made an alternative Build mapping forum? It gets repetitive bringing up Doomworld again but did the people banned from there stop mapping? No, 40oz and others made the doomer boards and since then they’ve put out some of the best WADs (seriously, Spaceballs the sequel rules)

[Aristotle Gumball]

Danukem, on 14 November 2022 - 03:41 AM, said:

Duke was a parody based on movie action heroes, but he was also supposed to be kinda cool. He wasn't a figure of ridicule. I think the version of him in DNF did become a joke though.

By the way, Jimmy baited you. I really don't think Jimmy cares about whether Duke Nukem is a Christian or what political party he belongs to. (Certainly, most of us who make content for Duke 3D don't care). But sure, I can believe that some fanboys these days do care.

The person you describe as a neo-Nazi is gone though (no evidence was actually presented to show that he was, either) and the post you refer to was quickly removed at the time. These are the same things you talked about years ago, before you left and came back.

I actually think Yahtzee had it right that Duke in DNF should've been even more ridiculous. That was realistically the only path they could've taken. Anything else would've seem antiquated or appealing to a subset of... well, you know.

I don't think Jimmy is joking. Remember how he used to talk about Trump? Wtf. I'm sure he'll come out and say he was just to get one over me, but whatever. People here take the character of Duke way more seriously than is reasonable. Like take Open Maw's meltdown over Jon St John saying something about Trump supporters.

You always see things through rose tinted glasses IMO. That's your biggest character flaw by my estimation.

"no evidence" - now you're just bullshitting me. He blames Jews for the holocaust and also diminishes the extent of the actual suffering. That whole Grand Old Party thread is full of Nazi apologias. But I don't need to go over all that again. Tired of running in circles.

The broader point is that nothing really changed. The same situations will arise time and time again, because you and other staff members are too blind to see the problem even with things that happened in the past.

[ck3D]

Phredreeke, on 14 November 2022 - 04:02 AM, said:

There are apparently a vast amount of alienated mappers yet no one made an alternative Build mapping forum? It gets repetitive bringing up Doomworld again but did the people banned from there stop mapping? No, 40oz and others made the doomer boards and since then they’ve put out some of the best WADs (seriously, Spaceballs the sequel rules)

Mappers have their own improvised networks for communication using whichever tool at hand, emails, Discord groups, Messenger, Skype, what-have-you, real-life meetings (I swear!). Some of us drink beers together, all discussion doesn't have to happen on a forum and in fact, since none are being used indeed (even the existing Come Get Some! is dead asleep), now I wonder if we're talking about some type of public distrust phenomenon. But even back in the AMC days people were using AIM or MSN to communicate interpersonally which I don't think is anything to justify.

Something I want to add about the importance of Duke4, the website: it still is the main place where to announce (especially user map) releases. The Discord works but doesn't cut it, I imagine because of tradition, and because information there is volatile. People on the Discord regularly recommend joining and starting a thread on the forums for releases.

[Phredreeke]

Jews are not responsible for the holocaust but they are responsible for anime for what that’s worth.

[ck3D]

Phredreeke, on 14 November 2022 - 04:13 AM, said:

Jews are not responsible for the holocaust but they are responsible for anime for what that’s worth.

The new season of Mob Psycho 100 actually is pretty good. Spoilers ahead but more people should see the scene where the antihero is so tormented, it turns into the literal god of a supreme broccoli in order to try and make friends.

[Danukem]

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:36 AM, said:

If anything is valid about the way things are run here is that at least you can insult other members, even getting really personal, bringing their private lives into it. (Dan might indicate that this has changed, but I guess we'll find out sooner or later.)

Go ahead. I will ban you instantly (I mean if I'm not asleep -- I do need to go to bed in a few minutes).

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:36 AM, said:

The only difference between me and some other shitposter is self awareness. I know I'm flawed. I don't pretend to be some misunderstood nice guy.

I don't think that's accurate. The other shitposter types have all openly acknowledged their flaws at various times (Except for Person of Color -- he's the one exception but he's been gone quite a while now.)

You do it more often though.

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:36 AM, said:

The only reason you can say anything to me about my character is because I've openly admitted to the things I've done first. In reality I am a better human being than a lot of you. I notice when I've wronged someone. I am always trying to analyze and correct my behavior. Most people will never ever do that. They won't open themselves up to public scrutiny the way I have. I am brute forcing progress, mentally and spiritually, all the time, by any means necessary.

I guess that is true. Fair point. But you are fucking nuisance sometimes.

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:36 AM, said:

I never got anywhere with anybody here until I started saying retard and faggot and tranny. That should tell you something.

It does. It tells me that you are pathetic. If you are going to use slurs, then do it for the right reasons lol.

[Phredreeke]

I thought Person of Color was literally a troll account.

[ReaperAA]

Phredreeke, on 14 November 2022 - 01:37 AM, said:

How is this not toxic as fuck?

Not saying I support it, just adding info to why it I feel it was done with BoA's case

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 02:01 AM, said:

I get that the hosts of a website reserve the right to which kind of content they will allow, but personally I find it bullshit reasoning. Maybe I hate women, though. Can never make my mind up on that one.

Point is, either allow or don't allow, don't force the modder to alter their personal work to please you. Don't even accept it if they want to do that. That's perverse and lowers everybody's dignity as a human being. It lowers art itself.

To be fair, DW didn't (and can't as they don't have power outside the forum) force the modder to change their work per se. In Ascension's case, it was simply that the wad wouldn't be allowed to be hosted there unless the easter egg content was removed, to which the lead developer of the project ended up doing to host it there. Nothing stops them from hosting the uncensored version elsewhere.

[Danukem]

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 04:09 AM, said:

You always see things through rose tinted glasses IMO. That's your biggest character flaw by my estimation.

"no evidence" - now you're just bullshitting me. He blames Jews for the holocaust and also diminishes the extent of the actual suffering. That whole Grand Old Party thread is full of Nazi apologias. But I don't need to go over all that again. Tired of running in circles.

No I wasn't bullshitting you, I was wondering if you literally had proof of party affiliation or something like that. As you know, comments made in that now deleted thread were often quite vague and circuitious -- you would say it's the plausible deniability thing that Reaper mentioned. I would say it's a matter of due process.

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 04:09 AM, said:

The broader point is that nothing really changed. The same situations will arise time and time again, because you and other staff members are too blind to see the problem even with things that happened in the past.

It changed a little, and for the better. But no, it hasn't changed a lot. That's by design. Maybe I don't see things though rose-tinted glasses, maybe I just have different values from you.

[Danukem]

Aristotle Gumball, on 14 November 2022 - 04:38 AM, said:

picture with slur on it obviously posted to test promised ban trigger

I don't know who that is, but it's someone and you seem to be begging for a ban, so I'll ban you while we figure it out.

[Phredreeke]

It’s Hendricks266

[Danukem]

ck3D, on 14 November 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

@Danukem: I appreciate you thinking about this thread, but I wouldn't want you to waste your time trying to find or draw parallels with specific public or known events since I'm paraphrasing exactly is years of constant off-site reports and private complaints by really tons of mappers with more humility and discretion than myself (some still active but distant from the boards and unwilling to engage nor put up with it, some gone). As a moderator, I really don't think you have to take any change in action at all, or anything. I've offered ideas on how everyone could help improve the situation by maybe watching their form if they cared, since I think form and not substance may be the root issue, now what anyone eventually does I honestly don't care. I'm not certain anyone in particular can magically improve the Internet but by the quality of their participation.

I am sincere in wanting this to be a welcoming place for content creators and I actively try to help them whenever possible. If any creator has a problem, they can DM or use the report button and be heard. But skeptics will be skeptics.

[Reaper_Man]

Danukem, on 14 November 2022 - 05:03 AM, said:

I am sincere in wanting this to be a welcoming place for content creators

I don't doubt your sincerity...

Danukem, on 14 November 2022 - 04:20 AM, said:

If you are going to use slurs, then do it for the right reasons lol.

... But I do doubt your idea of "welcoming".

Danukem, on 13 November 2022 - 01:25 PM, said:

I will say I'm not in favor of a blanket prohibition on dogwhistles and other innocuous looking content that has... let's say bad... origins. That doesn't mean there aren't situations where such content needs to be removed and the poster dealt with in some fashion. These are things that can be discussed and dealt with on a case by case basis. Believe it or not, we do take it seriously when something is reported.

A very generous reading of this strategy is that you believe "bad things" like racism should be permitted, as long as it is done covertly enough to pass undetected, and only think action needs to be taken after someone complains.

I know you're a smart guy, you have to see how your actions and principles empower bad actors to take advantage of your "free speech at all costs" mindset, right?

[Forge]

ck3D, on 14 November 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

Things as I see them: I came into here almost sorry to have to report on the actuality of an issue based on what I've factually been seeing and hearing throughout the years

and there are more factors at work than "i don't want to accidently click a post with a title that obviously has 'venomous' written all over it and get my sensibilities offended"
i'm not denying how this place used to be - and it was mainly about people being raging assholes in map release threads.
those assholes are long gone.
A handful of people posting random opinions about random subjects in a couple off-topic threads and keeping it pretty civil despite disagreements isn't going to run anybody off. If it does, then they have a lot more emotional baggage than they should and I recommend professional counseling. The current group of people aren't running off into other parts of the forum and randomly attacking content creators.

ck3D, on 14 November 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

I then posted what I still think is a pretty federating message (although strongly worded) essentially encouraging anyone on here to try and maybe look better than a Vice tag cloud from the yesteryear in their posting if said information of relative unpopularity I brought ever happened to be a serious problem (I guess that's on an individual basis, too). Open advice and obviously unpopular, but honest because I do care.

Next thing I know I'm in a political box, which is the exact same thing I've seen people complain about in posts just above mine, when I never expressed anything about my political views (they're really not that interesting - blah blah general disbelief), my posts get lumped in with someone else's on the sole basis of equally not fitting the status quo, people spout things I never cared for at me like I suddenly am a window into some imaginary enemy and puppies start barking. And then suddenly it's trans rights and I have an agenda, all for delivering a message that obviously isn't all mine, since I positively am around, but now may be starting to understand a bit more.

You and I disagree, yet here we are having a nice cup of tea and talking about it.
The problem is that there was a person in here insulting people page after page - basically lumping everyone under some generic label and dehumanizing them. You sided with them so you got caught inside the blast radius.
I don't agree with that at all. You should be entitled to be treated as individual regardless of your opinion. You act civil, you should be treated civilly.

[Reaper_Man]

I'll use short paragraphs, as the trolls have admitted they have reading comprehension troubles with anything longer than 2 sentences.

As I've already said - It's not that you disagree with me calling the groupthink right-wing, it's that you don't like it being called right-wing as a negative.

ck is being attacked for the same reasons I am - going against the groupthink - the difference is he's a nice guy, whereas I'm less concerned about placating the delicate sensibilities and faux outrage of people who don't bat an eye at attacking others as long as it's thinly veiled. Listening to people who denigrate other groups whine about "civility" might be the funniest thing I read all week, and it's only Monday.

Basically - I can be just as much of a shithead as the rest of you, I just don't align with your views, and you can't stand that I'm not "on your team". I'm sure that if I was the kind of loser who blamed my life being terrible on taxes and the goberment and the woke trans feminist Democrats SJWs ruining my bibeo games, you'd think I was the bee's knees.

Instead I'm just pointing out that you sound like dorks, and your dorky behavior turns people off. When a third party like ck chimes in and agrees, you attack them as well, basically proving my point.

I don't care that you are dorks and losers. Please, continue being dorks and losers for the rest of your lives if that's what you want, I have no interest in ever stopping you. But don't pretend to be offended when someone outside the circle jerk notices.

Again - you're not upset I called you right-wing. You're upset I did it because I think that's a negative.

[Phredreeke]

Reaper_Man, on 14 November 2022 - 05:31 AM, said:

A very generous reading of this strategy is that you believe "bad things" like racism should be permitted, as long as it is done covertly enough to pass undetected, and only think action needs to be taken after someone complains.

I know you're a smart guy, you have to see how your actions and principles empower bad actors to take advantage of your "free speech at all costs" mindset, right?

We got a pretty racist and transphobic guy on the Discord. You know what we do? We make fun of him. If you think you and ck are being attacked that is nothing compared to what he has to endure.

[Reaper_Man]

Wow, someone who is not only openly racist and transphobic, but also he gets attacked by everyone? Sounds like such a welcoming place!

[Forge]

Reaper_Man, on 14 November 2022 - 09:02 AM, said:

As I've already said - It's not that you disagree with me calling the groupthink right-wing, it's that you don't like it being called right-wing as a negative.

lol at the mental gymnastics and blame shifting it takes to justify lumping people into a group so they can pin a star on their collective chests and dehumanize them