[Danukem]

Radar, on 22 August 2022 - 11:56 AM, said:

Well, leave me out of the mental illness discussion as well, is all I'm saying on that. And regarding the whole censorship thing, my opinion is that this is a dead forum way past its prime, and making a big ruckus against the moderators about consistency in moderation is not worth the effort for the 5 people left even reading political discussions on this forum. I'd rather we just have our "intelligent" "philosophical" discussions within the confines we're allowed and squeeze out whatever enjoyment is possibly left on this forum. Duke4.net is dead; long live Duke4.net.

But wait, I thought you regarded this forum as your "front line" in your culture war fight! You mean to tell me you were aware this whole time that only a few people around here talk about politics and you are just trying to squeeze a little enjoyment out of it? But why would it be enjoyable to talk with such a small number of people? Surely that is not well-adjusted behavior. As everyone knows, it would be weird to talk with a small group of friends at a dinner table or in a classroom or something like that. In contrast, a normal, well-adjusted thing to do, would be if you stopped by the dinner table to yell at those people, and then quickly left. It's even more normal if you wait a month or two, then do it again.

[Radar]

I had no idea that an internet forum dedicated to a 30 year old video game with a handful of active members was the frontline of the most successful political party in world history.

[Reaper_Man]

It actually and honestly really bums me out every time I see yet another indie game announced running on GZDoom, knowing full well that - at very least from a development standpoint - EDuke is technologically superior in almost every way. It has been around longer and feature rich for longer. It should have been the dominant "retro engine" people have been using for years. How are there not 100 games using EDuke? It's not "because licensing", that's a smokescreen. Basically nobody uses it or talks about it for pretty much one simple reason:

This community is dogshit to interact with. You know that, right? Like from the outside looking in, this community is a fucking mess? I really hope that isn't a surprise to anyone, because if it is... Lol. Lmao.

So if anyone ever finds themselves asking "I wonder why more people don't use EDuke", or wondering why more new developers aren't involved in improving tools or fixing Polymer, or even better, if you find yourself saying something like

Danukem, on 02 November 2022 - 03:00 AM, said:

I just realized I never even mentioned it on this forum, which used to be so active.

I hope you know the answer to these questions is looking back at you in the mirror.

I'm saying this because I really don't know if y'all realize it. I'm trying to put this as plainly as I can. This community is dead because it's exhausting to interact with, and that's the answer to the question "why does every thread derail into 10 pages of insane bullshit". That's all that's left.

I'm sure y'all don't care, and hey, I don't either. It's no sweat off my back, and I have absolutely no delusion that I might effect any sort of change. Something-something "free speech", right? Fight on, culture warriors. You're fighting the good fight here on duke four dot net, the last frontier of freedom, or whatever you dorks believe.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

How are there not 100 games using EDuke? It's not "because licensing", that's a smokescreen. Basically nobody uses it or talks about it for pretty much one simple reason:

This community is dogshit to interact with. You know that, right? Like from the outside looking in, this community is a fucking mess? I really hope that isn't a surprise to anyone, because if it is... Lol. Lmao.

Doom was always more popular than Duke and the maps are easier to make. Also, Doom communities are dogshit to interact with unless you're some uber left wing guy. I hate how Doomworld literally censors other people's artistic creations and bans users for merely questioning a mods decision. That doesn't happen here so much.

At the same time, I agree with aspects of what you're saying for sure. I used to complain about the same thing. A few years ago change was still possible I think. Now the people that probably should've been permabanned hardly even show up and yet there's still not much more activity.

Realistically the main culprit seems to be the fact that DNF was such a lame product and since that came out there hasn't really been much talk of reviving Duke yet again. It's a dead franchise. Contrast that with Blood which has separate communities that still produce content. FS being what it is, seemingly had a positive impact on people's interest in and awareness of Blood. There are a ton of cool mods and maps for it actually. EDuke/Build isn't totally dead, you just have to know where to look.

[Radar]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

It actually and honestly really bums me out every time I see yet another indie game announced running on GZDoom, knowing full well that - at very least from a development standpoint - EDuke is technologically superior in almost every way. It has been around longer and feature rich for longer. It should have been the dominant "retro engine" people have been using for years. How are there not 100 games using EDuke? It's not "because licensing", that's a smokescreen. Basically nobody uses it or talks about it for pretty much one simple reason:

This community is dogshit to interact with. You know that, right? Like from the outside looking in, this community is a fucking mess? I really hope that isn't a surprise to anyone, because if it is... Lol. Lmao.

So if anyone ever finds themselves asking "I wonder why more people don't use EDuke", or wondering why more new developers aren't involved in improving tools or fixing Polymer, or even better, if you find yourself saying something like


I hope you know the answer to these questions is looking back at you in the mirror.

I'm saying this because I really don't know if y'all realize it. I'm trying to put this as plainly as I can. This community is dead because it's exhausting to interact with, and that's the answer to the question "why does every thread derail into 10 pages of insane bullshit". That's all that's left.

I'm sure y'all don't care, and hey, I don't either. It's no sweat off my back, and I have absolutely no delusion that I might effect any sort of change. Something-something "free speech", right? Fight on, culture warriors. You're fighting the good fight here on duke four dot net, the last frontier of freedom, or whatever you dorks believe.

Doom modding is significantly more common because Doom is a significantly more popular game. Also, GZDoom is significantly more feature-rich than EDuke32, having better renderers, scripting languages, map makers, audio engine, and netcode, which were much easier to implement in Doom as a result of the higher code quality of the original game. There is nothing more to it than that. You are the one trying to make the demise of this community a "culture war" thing, which it is not.

[Reaper_Man]

Radar, on 10 November 2022 - 06:51 AM, said:

You are the one trying to make the demise of this community a "culture war" thing, which it is not.

Aristotle Gumball, on 10 November 2022 - 06:35 AM, said:

Doom communities are dogshit to interact with unless you're some uber left wing guy.

I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

[Aristotle Gumball]

You're too dumb for the points you're trying to make and instead are looking for cheap "gotcha" moments. Boring.

[Radar]

EDIT:

I deleted this comment because on second thought, there are some things I just don't want to say. It could be a bannable offense and I don't want to risk crossing that line.

[Phredreeke]

I find the idea that EDuke32 should be more popular because it is technically superior funny given that when you look at the Doom community there's way more vanilla/limit-removing/Boom content being made than there are for GZDoom. (also, in a way EDuke32's dual licensing is actually an advantage in that it allows for console ports)

Radar, on 10 November 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

EDIT:

I deleted this comment because on second thought, there are some things I just don't want to say. It could be a bannable offense and I don't want to risk crossing that line.

Do it f🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[Reaper_Man]

Phredreeke, on 10 November 2022 - 10:01 AM, said:

I find the idea that EDuke32 should be more popular because it is technically superior funny given that when you look at the Doom community there's way more vanilla/limit-removing/Boom content being made than there are for GZDoom. (also, in a way EDuke32's dual licensing is actually an advantage in that it allows for console ports)

I am specifically talking about indie releases, AKA standalone titles, and not other kinds of mods or content. Off the top of my head I can think of Age of Hell, Brutal Fate, Hellslinger, Selaco, Supplice... Those are just ones I regularly see, as someone not remotely involved with (or frankly interested in) the Doom or GZDoom community. What upcoming EDuke titles are there? The Ion Fury expansion... What else? Is anyone working on something? Please, I would love to be wrong about this. The big TCs can't go for standalone releases because they're buried in retail art and other copywritten material, but I would fucking love to see AMC or Alien Armageddon on Steam. The most high profile project is Dan Douglas' interactive shitpost, which I mean, great, but also, lol if that's our high water mark. Otherwise I hope you guys are ready for Raze to be synonymous with standalone Build titles.

Radar, on 10 November 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

EDIT:I deleted this comment because on second thought, there are some things I just don't want to say. It could be a bannable offense and I don't want to risk crossing that line.

You have to see how you're proving my point exactly, right? One person dares to speak against the hivemind about how the community is a toxic cesspool of terminally online trolls, and your immediate knee-jerk response is "I'm gonna say something that will get me banned". This isn't rocket surgery. The call is coming from inside the house.

[Phredreeke]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 10:25 AM, said:

Brutal Fate

Yes, a game made by a completely sane and agreeable individual.

[Reaper_Man]

Yes, Sgt Mark should be fired from a cannon and into the sun. That really isn't remotely my point, though.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Nobody cares, Reaper Man.

[Phredreeke]

Nope but it’s funny that you’d use that as an example.

There are way more developers experienced with (G)ZDoom than EDuke32 and this has been the case for a long time, way before Gamergate and Donald Trump.

[Reaper_Man]

I guess it's funny? If you want to discuss the merits of the individual or their game, that's a separate conversation. The fact is that it's a high profile game, high profile enough that someone who doesn't pay attention to the Doom community knows about it. And you're just trying to deflect.

You don't need to tell me about the way back when, I was there, and I was a terminally online toxic troll then too. Even though thankfully I matured, back then I was still asking the question "why is the community not growing and why aren't more people using EDuke". And in all that time, not much has changed. Which goes back to my original statement.

Aristotle Gumball, on 10 November 2022 - 10:57 AM, said:

Nobody cares, Reaper Man.

I know, and isn't that the shame of it all? If only anyone gave a shit.

[Phredreeke]

Yes, it’s funny that you complain about how our community is toxic, then brings up a game made by a guy who told a depressed man to kill himself.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 11:35 AM, said:

You don't need to tell me about the way back when, I was there, and I was a terminally online toxic troll then too. Even though thankfully I matured, back then I was still asking the question "why is the community not growing and why aren't more people using EDuke". And in all that time, not much has changed. Which goes back to my original statement.

Oh, I should have known. It’s always people “repenting” for past sins who are the loudest critics of other’s behaviour.

[Hank]

[butting in]
Try to look at the positive. AMC TC and Demon Thrown releases, this year alone; not to forget all those levels. So duke4 shrank in activity after the DNF and the World Tour fuck ups. (None of my fav TCs work in WT, for me.) So? Simply play the best from Doom and Duke, works for me.
[butting out]

[Danukem]

William Gee and I would like to get Demon Throne on steam, and I think I may even be able to manage to get Alien Armageddon on there before I die, although in that case it's much harder because it would have to be a version with significant changes and rewrites to remove all the copyrighted IP.

I do think that some people have been turned away from the community by having shitty interactions with some toxic people over the years. However, the main reason that there are more Doom projects is because Doom was already more popular, and then the franchise has been made stronger by solid commercial releases. Whereas in the case of Duke, DNF had the opposite effect and taught young people that it's a shit franchise. Also, while I love EDuke32 there is no denying it has serious technical limitations -- for example, the dynamic lighting system is still practically unusable even after all these years due to shit performance.

To the extent that there is traffic of people going from one community to the other _these days_ I can think of one notable example of it going our way. The Doom modder known here as ImpieTheThird came here to post about his content because he was banned from Doomworld -- because one of his mods made a dig at masking mandates. If being intolerant of mild political commentary is a virtue, then I'll choose vice every time, thank you.

No one is going to do a proper scientific analysis of the various factors influencing the respective community sizes and weight them objectively. I don't even believe that's possible at this point.

One thing that does grind my gears though is when people throw around the accusation that the forum is currently a terrible place based on things that happened long ago, or very infrequently. The last time there was any significant strife here was the incident that got this very thread split off and resulted in the instigator getting banned. That was a significant while ago, but more importantly that kind of incident is infrequent. Since then, there has been a lively discussion in this thread amongst a small number of people on a wide range of issues. Off the top of my head, I remember there was a religious debate in which Radar took a literalist stance on the Bible and then the rest of us argued with him because we are either atheists (like me) or are otherwise not literalists. We talked about DMT, spiritual experiences and reincarnation. BoSF talked about their upcoming bottom surgery and we were able to have a civil discussion. Aristotle Gumball and Forge had a mini-debate about the causes of autism. Yep, it's all over the map. Then Radar brought up the election, and yes he's a Republican. Btw, not to pick on Radar, but does anyone else here actually have anything positive to say about Republicans? It doesn't seem so -- hardly what I would call a circle jerk at least on that point.

What I think is actually going on here is that some people are upset that certain opinions they disagree with are allowed to be expressed at all. It's not a question of civility or lack thereof. Notice that the description of the behavior oscillates. Sometimes it is described as "people being shitty to each other" and then sometimes it is a "circle jerk". But these are inconsistent descriptions. If one of those two are bad, it's certainly the former and not the latter. But in any case, it seems that what is actually causing the most offense are the opinions themselves, not the way in which they are delivered.

[Phredreeke]

Danukem, on 10 November 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

The last time there was any significant strife here was the incident that got this very thread split off and resulted in the instigator getting banned.

And that was over playing Duke Nukem with a controller

Danukem, on 10 November 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

Btw, not to pick on Radar, but does anyone else here actually have anything positive to say about Republicans?

They’re not Democrats.

[Hendricks266]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

It actually and honestly really bums me out every time I see yet another indie game announced running on GZDoom, knowing full well that - at very least from a development standpoint - EDuke is technologically superior in almost every way. It has been around longer and feature rich for longer. It should have been the dominant "retro engine" people have been using for years. How are there not 100 games using EDuke? It's not "because licensing", that's a smokescreen. Basically nobody uses it or talks about it for pretty much one simple reason:

Technical strengths alone won't determine the popularity of something, just look at every overblown trend ever. See also: VHS vs. Betamax.

Doom has always been more popular, full stop. It had three years of lead time and was a genre-defining trendsetter, while Duke 3D was more of a refinement and aesthetic extension.

You only need to compare the size of the source port family trees of the two games to see this in practice.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

This community is dogshit to interact with. You know that, right? Like from the outside looking in, this community is a fucking mess? I really hope that isn't a surprise to anyone, because if it is... Lol. Lmao.

Is it? Say someone is troubleshooting an issue with the game or a port, or they're developing something and they have a question that prewritten guides don't answer, and they post in the relevant section. What's the absolute worst that will happen?

You seem to suggest that because we do our own thing and don't blindly follow the mold, that we should debase what makes us unique and change into another cookie cutter discussion board in the name of palatability. All this would achieve is to gut the heart and soul of the place, and only then would it be truly dead.

It reminds me of how for a friend's birthday recently, some of my fellow Latinos and I went to a steakhouse that mainly caters to upper-class white people. The food was good, but one of us asked for some yellow pepper to spice things up and the best they could do was some "chipotle mayonnaise" that just tasted like mayo.

Over on Doomworld, the prevailing groupthink includes the cringiest shit ever, like the claim that Shadow Warrior is "yikes on bikes".

I wonder what you would see on some of those other forums if you could put on the glasses from They Live.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

I'm saying this because I really don't know if y'all realize it. I'm trying to put this as plainly as I can. This community is dead because it's exhausting to interact with, and that's the answer to the question "why does every thread derail into 10 pages of insane bullshit". That's all that's left.

How many threads in on-topic sections get derailed? Unless it's a shitfling about The State of Duke Nukem, I would estimate zero. If I'm wrong, please use the report button where necessary.

The whole point of a section like General Discussion is for camaraderie among regulars. If someone doesn't like what they see in that section, then they have the freedom of association to go somewhere else for general discussion. I doubt anyone who comes here to talk about Duke Nukem will be scared away by the off-topic section, unless they already planned to turn their nose up in the first place. If they're not here to talk about Duke or a closely related topic, why should we care what they think? Users who come from nowhere and predominantly post in General are inherently suspicious, but that's a tangent.

[Reaper_Man]

Hendricks -
I am fully aware that there is not only no will, but no interest, in - using your words - palatability. I said earlier that I am under no delusion that anything will change, ever, and I truly mean that.

But isn't that pretty much admitting that the "heart and soul" you're defending... is unpalatable? It's interesting you choose They Live as a reference point, considering that movie is pretty explicitly anti-Reaganism. I wonder what you'd see looking around here, all things considered. I know everyone assumes they are the hero of the story, but...

On that note, I am tickled that you don't see the brand of conformity and groupthink present here. The camaraderie, as you put it. The fact that someone can post 1 meme counter to it (one that you have to admit is mild compared to plenty of other posts in this very thread) and people are so incensed that I'm immediately attacked and insulted. Now to be clear that didn't bother me, I say that because among the pages and pages and pages and pages - literal thousands of comments - of right-wing posts on this forum, 1 comment from 1 person challenges it, and everyone goes into a tailspin? Come on. That is so fragile it's hilarious.

Here's what I don't get though. I call it toxic, you deride palatability. What's the difference? We're saying the same thing. I don't praise it, but we're certainly in agreement about it. If you're proud that this community "doesn't follow the mold", own it! Be proud of it!

I'm not familiar with Doomworld or their controversies beyond whatever headlines float my way, so you'll understand if I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not really interested either, so please skip the history lesson.

As for your final point, it presupposes that everyone comes here to discuss Duke Nukem the character and not EDuke the game engine. I mean, the EDuke boards are at the very top, I assume for a reason, and that that reason is because EDuke is the main reason people come here, regardless of which game they're running on it. Right? I don't know about you, but I proselytize EDuke. I want more people to use it. Yeah, she's scuffed and she's a fickle bitch, but I'd love to see it used more. Don't you? Do you really just want it to be the same couple dozen of us modding the engine for the end of time? There was like 15 games at Realms Deep using GZDoom, wouldn't you like to see more than 2 representing EDuke?

Dan -
Don't mince words, I'm an adult. I am not upset that you or others are "allowed to" express opinions that I "disagree with". Allowed to in quotes because... obviously you can do whatever you want. Disagree with in quotes because it's not a matter of disagreement, and I really don't care what your opinions are. And I mean that in the positive; the content of your opinions honestly doesn't effect me. Also I didn't say Republican. I said right-wing. I know the difference, AND I know from reading the comments that the Republicans aren't extreme enough or right-wing enough to receive praise from most people here.

On that topic, you really have no idea what my opinions are either, so don't project, please. That's on purpose, I don't feel the need to share my political opinions on a video game web forum. Because I mean, lmao, who would? But I'll give you a little hint, just to clear things up in the future - just because someone doesn't like 1 party, doesn't mean they love the other one. Negative-B does not necessarily equal A. I've noticed conservatives in particular fall into this trap, where they think anyone who isn't explicitly on their side, means they are implicitly a left-wing woke liberal non-binary socialist Democrat communist. And it's this attitude why y'all are losing, and will lose for the rest of your life thanks to Gen Z, and that will never stop being fucking hilarious to me. Conservatives can't stop being assholes "because free speech" long enough to gain traction with anyone who doesn't already agree with you. This is peak comedy.

If I feel anything it's a frustration, disappointment, annoyance at the wasted potential, hiding behind phrases like "freedom of association", because you want to have your cake and eat it too. But this goes back to understanding that nothing will change, which I already told you, so fuck it, have fun.

What you're describing that grinds your gears is "reputation". Duke4 has a reputation, like it or not. And it's clear that no one is interested in rehabilitating this reputation, from the things that happened long ago or that happen infrequently. This is the "palatability" we're talking about, and that's fine. Really! But you can't have it both ways. You can't be upset that Duke4 has a reputation you dislike, while utterly refusing to do anything to change that reputation. I do find it curious that you guys seem to think in such black-and-white terms, that a community is either "cookie cutter" and "palatable", or a basically-anything-goes free speech race to the bottom that has earned the reputation you're unhappy with in the first place. I don't know what to tell you. Good luck?

I forgot about DT, I really hope you guys do get that on Steam, I think that would be dope.

Anyway - You seem dissatisfied with me popping in to General and like you wanted me to engage, and now we've all seen how that plays out, would you prefer I continue, or are you satisfied with the occasional interruption of your safe space? Sorry, I meant your dinner table. Because I'm really not interested in debating this in the marketplace of ideas, and frankly had no intention of returning to the topic at all, but it seemed to really tick you off I didn't stick around. Maybe I didn't want you to think I'm chickenshit, maybe I knew it would be a big dumb pointless argument all around and I'm petty enough to be fine with that, maybe I just woke up and chose violence today and wanted to raise the blood pressure of some of the more fragile commenters. Who knows.

I've got nothing more to add, other than: If you can't take it, then don't dish it out. I'm allowed to freely associated with General and exercise my freedom of speech to go against the groupthink, right?

[Phredreeke]

You remind me of the kinda guys who go on the ZDoom discord just to bitch about the rainbow in their icon.

[Radar]

[jkas789]

Reaper_Man, on 09 November 2022 - 02:39 PM, said:

Take a closer look. It's the same 5 or 6 weirdo, terminally online, Facebook uncle right-wing reactionaries, ceaselessly circle-jerking each other about their latest culture war battle front. Trans this, woke that, something something critical race theory. "The mean liberals on the bird app hurt my feelings!" Why they've chosen a web forum for a 30 year old video game to be their front line, I could only guess. How many people do you think are still active on this forum? A few dozen? A hundred? Normal, well adjusted people don't behave this way, much less want to interact with it.

lol

lmao even


I honestly think you are much more pathetic Reaper. There is nothing sadder than a fisherman who fishes in a pond not because he is trying to get giant cat fish in it's hidden depths but because he knows he can't catch anything more than minnows in the surface.

Quote

Anyway - You seem dissatisfied with me popping in to General and like you wanted me to engage, and now we've all seen how that plays out, would you prefer I continue, or are you satisfied with the occasional interruption of your safe space? Sorry, I meant your dinner table. Because I'm really not interested in debating this in the marketplace of ideas, and frankly had no intention of returning to the topic at all, but it seemed to really tick you off I didn't stick around. Maybe I didn't want you to think I'm chickenshit, maybe I knew it would be a big dumb pointless argument all around and I'm petty enough to be fine with that, maybe I just woke up and chose violence today and wanted to raise the blood pressure of some of the more fragile commenters. Who knows.

I've got nothing more to add, other than: If you can't take it, then don't dish it out. I'm allowed to freely associated with General and exercise my freedom of speech to go against the groupthink, right?

Get off your little high horse boi, nobody was talking to you before you inserted yourself into the conversation to cry and moan about a community you obviously view in contempt. Stop talking to ghosts schizo. The community is dead isn't it? Why are you still talking to the dead?

To Danukem and Hendricks:

While I appreciate the effort you went to explain your thoughts, you both should really not be falling for this low quality bait.

[Phredreeke]

Dukers don’t have to be your audience, Dukers are dead

[jkas789]

I can confirm I am very dead indeed. I even got a altar of the dead made in honor of Duke's death. I even paid for a couple for a couple of strippers to dance DN3D style all over it.

[Danukem]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 04:35 PM, said:

The fact that someone can post 1 meme counter to it (one that you have to admit is mild compared to plenty of other posts in this very thread) and people are so incensed that I'm immediately attacked and insulted.

If you come out guns blazing and call the people here weirdo reactionary losers who are deluded into thinking they are fighting a culture war by posting here, naturally they are going to say something back. The replies weren't even particularly harsh [although god knows what will be in the thread by the time I finish typing this and hit Add Reply lol]. If you want to say those things and post a meme, okay... But if some people post replies with equal and opposite energy, don't be surprised. I'm not even trying to be combative, it's just puzzling to me that you would come in with that energy then find it remarkable that some of it comes back your way.

Consider this, too: Let's say I write a post challenging a group of people on a web forum. Now each of them individually sees the challenge and most of them write some kind of reply to me. From their point of view, they wrote one reply to one post, which is a proportionate response. But from _my_ point of view, I just got dogpiled because I wrote one thing and then all of those people replied to me. This is the dynamic of having a minority viewpoint on a webforum (or taking the role of antagonist), and it doesn't mean that the majority are in a tailspin.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 04:35 PM, said:

Also I didn't say Republican. I said right-wing. I know the difference, AND I know from reading the comments that the Republicans aren't extreme enough or right-wing enough to receive praise from most people here.

Republican is at least a well-defined category insofar as it refers to people who vote Republican and/or identify with that political party. When people say "right-wing" I honestly don't know what they mean until they spell it out. Most of the people around here don't qualify as "right wing" in my lexicon, but clearly they do in yours.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 04:35 PM, said:

What you're describing that grinds your gears is "reputation". Duke4 has a reputation, like it or not.

I accept that Duke4 has a bad reputation in some quarters. What I find annoying is that some people bring that it up as if it's a problem that needs to be solved. It just isn't. Realistically, it would be much easier for the community to migrate to an entirely new forum than it would be to "fix" the reputation of the current one. But there's really no need for that either. We have discord servers for our various projects and that's where most of the interaction with players takes place. It's much more convenient and efficient. It has a good mobile interface. Creators can make and edit channels with ease. Files can be dropped into the channel windows. That change is due to technology, not reputation. It's good that the forum still exists and it has its uses, but it's not as important as it once was.

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 04:35 PM, said:

Anyway - You seem dissatisfied with me popping in to General and like you wanted me to engage, and now we've all seen how that plays out, would you prefer I continue, or are you satisfied with the occasional interruption of your safe space? Sorry, I meant your dinner table.

You do you.

[Aristotle Gumball]

"I'm not familiar with Doomworld or their controversies beyond whatever headlines float my way, so you'll understand if I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not really interested either, so please skip the history lesson."

I don't get why anyone's replying to this person. They either pretend or genuinely don't know wtf is going on with the things they are trying to make points about.

[ReaperAA]

Reaper_Man, on 10 November 2022 - 06:00 AM, said:

It actually and honestly really bums me out every time I see yet another indie game announced running on GZDoom, knowing full well that - at very least from a development standpoint - EDuke is technologically superior in almost every way. It has been around longer and feature rich for longer. It should have been the dominant "retro engine" people have been using for years. How are there not 100 games using EDuke? It's not "because licensing", that's a smokescreen. Basically nobody uses it or talks about it for pretty much one simple reason:

Not going to talk about political stuff, but EDuke32 superior to GZDoom !!!? Hard disagree. Sure, EDuke32 can do some things GZDoom can't but then there are also things GZDoom can do that EDuke can't. Plus, as someone who is a newbie at modding, GZD is FAAARRRR easier in my opinion to mod. And the level editors are also easier to get into.

Also "technologically superior"? In what way? Renderer or Level design? Because renderer wise GZDoom has Vulkan support while EDuke32 is still using OpenGL 2.x something that has Vsync stuttering issues on my AMD gpu to this day.

And longer in developent? Original EDuke is from 2000 and EDuke32 is from 2004? ZDoom (GZDoom's parent port) started development in 1998.

NOTE: I am not disrespecting the work put by EDuke32 devs. It is a well-known fact that Build isn't the cleanest code, so kudos to the devs for working on it. But between GZ and EDuke32, if I ever got into making a retro fps TC I would easily choose GZ.

[Hank]

Danukem, on 10 November 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

William Gee and I would like to get Demon Throne on steam, and I think I may even be able to manage to get Alien Armageddon on there before I die, although in that case it's much harder because it would have to be a version with significant changes and rewrites to remove all the copyrighted IP.

Best Wishes.
And I promise to spell the project correctly from now on.