[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

uh-huh.

most of those are already illegal to enforce.

the rest are situational. (e.g. trying to manipulate kindergarten to 3rd grade aged children to get surgery or go out of your way to give them sex ed classes where it's not warranted/appropriate. All attacks against trans people are not hate crimes. You can't force someone to make you a trans cake - they have free speech rights too & yours don't trump theirs, etc.)

illegal for how long under a pure red government?

uh-huh
shouldn't hetero and cis books be banned too
so nobody knows what normal is.
their free speech doesn't trump mine right?

People of that age can't make surgical transition
And current laws are at 16, which I completely agree with
https://apnews.com/a...r%20for%20boys.
announced changes are 14 for hormones and 15 to 17 for surgeries.
which I'm iffy on but is a massive far cry from 3rd graders.

Sex ed should start at 3, so it prevents children from being raped
so they can understand what is right and wrong for other people to do with their bodies.
the right saying that this should be at an older age, restricted, or handled at home.
is just a way so daddies and mommies can diddle their kids freely.

[Aristotle Gumball]

I'm not sure which I prefer: sex ed for 3 year olds or public executions for pedophiles. I'm a pragmatist so it's really an issue of prevention for me, not morality.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Aristotle Gumball, on 28 October 2022 - 11:42 AM, said:

I'm not sure which I prefer: sex ed for 3 year olds or public executions for pedophiles. I'm a pragmatist so it's really an issue of prevention for me, not morality.

Why not both?
I would prefer public lengthy executions, very lengthy, like livestream it for a couple of days at least.
then keep them alive at the end of it
then randomly do it again later.
then they die in prison, or get 20 years if significant changes have occured (only if it was one occurrence and not a repeat occurrence, and have been rehabbed)
but they get released in eastside oakland california with no money or food.
and all of the local billboards have their face on it
saying this guy is a convicted pedo.

[Forge]

you're making assumptions based on politics and not constitutionality
those books are 'banned' because of sexually explicit content, not the 'orientation'
the law in california allows 12 year olds to travel to their state - without their parents consent - and get transition surgery
sex ed should be up to the parent, not the school - and at 3 years old they won't understand it anyway - stranger-danger works just fine without injecting a pronoun agenda into it.
I never diddled my kid. Most parents don't and you have issues if you think they do.

and yes - their speech trumps yours when you're trying to force or compel them to go against their free speech - They can deny you trying to force them. You can't force them. They have rights. They aren't forcing you, they are denying you trying to force them. See how that works? Understand? Comprehend?

Again - I fell into getting into a discussion with you, and you fill it with speculation, what-ifs, what-abouts, , treat hearsay as truth, and are simply disingenuous

[Danukem]

People love public torture and executions and I'm sure that would be extremely popular. So popular in fact that once it starts, there would be pressure to provide more and more spectacles. Not everyone who is convicted is guilty in our legal system as it is, but wait until there are market forces behind public executions and lots of people will get framed/railroaded. Not to mention the definition of pedo could be expanded so that for example a fourteen year old looking at naked pics of other fourteen year olds is considered a pedo.

Public spectacles are also a great way to distract the stupid populace so that they don't demand real change.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Danukem, on 28 October 2022 - 12:11 PM, said:

Not everyone who is convicted is guilty in our legal system as it is, but wait until there are market forces behind public executions and lots of people will get framed/railroaded.

Then the question becomes, how many kids would go unmolested vs innocent people executed. I think child rape is worse than murder.

[Phredreeke]

Sex ed for a three year old seems... early. But I guess it depends on what we define as "sex ed". I'm sure Balls isn't talking about teaching 3 year old about muffing and anal sex

[Danukem]

Aristotle Gumball, on 28 October 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

Then the question becomes, how many kids would go unmolested vs innocent people executed. I think child rape is worse than murder.

On the face of it that seems like a false dilemma because you seem to be saying that a new policy of public executions is the only (or best?) way to reduce child rape. I will concede that this is an empirical question and that it's possible you are right, however unlikely that seems to me. But hey, if you want to promote this, go for it. I was pointing out a significant downside. But go ahead and promote the idea, maybe you can even make a political party around it. I want to see where you get with it.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Thanks for your support!

[Forge]

Danukem, on 28 October 2022 - 12:11 PM, said:

People love public torture and executions and I'm sure that would be extremely popular. So popular in fact that once it starts, there would be pressure to provide more and more spectacles. Not everyone who is convicted is guilty in our legal system as it is, but wait until there are market forces behind public executions and lots of people will get framed/railroaded. Not to mention the definition of pedo could be expanded so that for example a fourteen year old looking at naked pics of other fourteen year olds is considered a pedo.

Public spectacles are also a great way to distract the stupid populace so that they don't demand real change.

The punishment should fit the crime.

Let the child molesters who are found guilty be put in stocks at the finish line of a trans-pride parade and let the trans people orgy-rape them all night long. Televise it. Everybody wins

[Phredreeke]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 01:04 PM, said:

Let the child molesters who are found guilty be put in stocks at the finish line of a trans-pride parade and let the trans people orgy-rape them all night long. Televise it. Everybody wins

Why do you assume they'd be interested in adults?

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 12:05 PM, said:

you're making assumptions based on politics and not constitutionality
those books are 'banned' because of sexually explicit content, not the 'orientation'
the law in california allows 12 year olds to travel to their state - without their parents consent - and get transition surgery
sex ed should be up to the parent, not the school - and at 3 years old they won't understand it anyway - stranger-danger works just fine without injecting a pronoun agenda into it.
I never diddled my kid. Most parents don't and you have issues if you think they do.

and yes - their speech trumps yours when you're trying to force or compel them to go against their free speech - you see how that works? They can deny you trying to force them. You can't force them. They have rights. They aren't forcing you, they are denying you trying to force them. See how that works? Understand? Comprehend?

Again - I fell into getting into a discussion with you, and you fill it with speculation, what-ifs, what-abouts, , treat hearsay as truth, and are simply disingenuous

https://transgenderl...-with-cover.pdf
https://religionunpl...rents-knowledge
ab1184
“Protected individual” means any adult covered by the subscriber’s health care service plan or a minor who can consent to a health care service without the consent of a parent or legal guardian, pursuant to state or federal law. “Protected individual” does not include an individual that lacks the capacity to give informed consent for health care pursuant to Section 813 of the Probate Code.

Nowhere does it say 12 year olds.
Change my mind

Yes they would at 3. stranger danger doesn't work for your own parents.

Most people that diddle their kids are parents or family members
stranger danger need not apply
"About 90% of children who are victims
of abuse know their abuser. "
"About 60% of children who are
sexually abused are abused by the
people the family trusts."
https://www.d2l.org/...erpetrators.pdf
https://theconversat...material-153722
stranger danger doesn't work for 90% of child predatory actions.
probably because kids can understand stranger danger.

Sex ed should not to be up to the parent, because statistics show, the parent or family members are some of the main perpetrators.
"However, the sad fact is that online exploitation begins at home for many kids, and in those cases their parent is the last person who can be trusted to keep them safe. One study of 150 adult survivors, who indicated they had appeared in sexual abuse material as children, found 42% identified their biological or adoptive/stepfather as the primary offender. More than two-thirds of such images appear to have been made at home."
"The victim’s biological father (58%) or stepfather (41%) were most likely to be the offender. However, the victim’s biological mother was involved in 28% of cases, most often as a co-offender."

But they can remove my right to speak
3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students

they definitely allow for hetero normative based discussion, as that has to be talked about
as most films would be banned, most tv, and wedding rings would have to not be allowed in office.
A large part of science and biology would not be allowed to be talked about.
as hetero must be the only thing that is age or developmentally appropiate.

the choice is to put hetero as normal at that age.
hetero talk would have to be also banned for it to be seen as not restricting anothers speech.
and I sincerely doubt it is to the same degree as other speech.

I'm not compelling them to go against their speech at all.
they are just denying my speech.

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 01:21 PM, said:

Nowhere does it say 12 year olds.
Change my mind

https://leginfo.legi...201720180AB2119
gives california residents 12 years and older the right to leave their household and seek temporary foster shelter in order to receive gender transition surgery

https://leginfo.legi...=202120220SB107
gives those same rights to out-of-state residents seeking sanctuary for the purpose of pursuing gender transition surgery, and protects the health care providers that perform the procedures from having their records subpoenaed by other states

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 01:36 PM, said:

https://leginfo.legi...201720180AB2119
gives california residents 12 years and older the right to leave their household and seek temporary foster shelter in order to receive gender transition surgery

https://leginfo.legi...=202120220SB107
gives those same rights to out-of-state residents seeking sanctuary for the purpose of pursuing gender transition surgery, and protects the health care providers that perform the procedures from having their records subpoenaed by other states

You seemed to not be able to read the bill.
Foster youth who are 12 years of age or older have established rights to privately seek and consent to outpatient mental health counseling and treatment, including pursuant to Section 6924 of the Family Code and Section 124260 of the Health and Safety Code.

( B ) (1) The right of minors and nonminors in foster care to health care and mental health care described in paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 16001.9 includes covered gender affirming health care and gender affirming mental health care. This right is subject to existing laws governing consent to health care for minors and nonminors and does not limit, add, or otherwise affect applicable laws governing consent to health care.

Please tell me again, where it says a 12 year old can get hormone treatment specifically for a 12 year old.

[Phredreeke]

Where does said document mention surgery?

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 01:46 PM, said:

You seemed to not be able to read the bill.

you seemed to have not read the bill in its entirety
section 3 b for the literary challenged
the part that mentions California Code, Welfare and Institutions Code - WIC § 16010.2
which states:

(3) For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(A) “Gender affirming health care” means medically necessary health care that respects the gender identity of the patient, as experienced and defined by the patient, and may include, but is not limited to, the following:

(i) Interventions to suppress the development of endogenous secondary sex characteristics.

(ii) Interventions to align the patient's appearance or physical body with the patient's gender identity.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 02:04 PM, said:

you seemed to have not read the bill in its entirety
section 3 b for the literary challenged
the part that mentions California Code, Welfare and Institutions Code - WIC § 16010.2
which states:

(3) For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(A) “Gender affirming health care” means medically necessary health care that respects the gender identity of the patient, as experienced and defined by the patient, and may include, but is not limited to, the following:

(i) Interventions to suppress the development of endogenous secondary sex characteristics.

(ii) Interventions to align the patient's appearance or physical body with the patient's gender identity.

That says for a minor and not a 12 year old
A minor requires consent of a legal guardian (foster parent) for those actions under current law.
https://transgenderl...-with-cover.pdf
• In most cases, youth under the age of 18 must obtain the permission of their parents or guardian
to access any medical treatment, including treatment for gender transition.


( B ) (1) The right of minors and nonminors in foster care to health care and mental health care described in paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 16001.9 includes covered gender affirming health care and gender affirming mental health care. This right is subject to existing laws governing consent to health care for minors and nonminors and does not limit, add, or otherwise affect applicable laws governing consent to health care.

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 01:21 PM, said:

Yes they would at 3.

3 is too young to introduce pronoun training
7 is closer to the maturity level needed for that
but 3 is a good time to start about not letting people touch you in certain areas

https://www.ncsby.or...vior%202009.pdf
page 4 has a decent chart

Quote

Most people that diddle their kids are parents or family members
stranger danger need not apply

more accurate study - but still high numbers (62%) abuse know their abuser
https://www.ojp.gov/.../nij/194972.pdf
page 9

Quote

Sex ed should not to be up to the parent, because statistics show, the parent or family members are some of the main perpetrators.

but this is not accurate^


anyway, both parents need to be involved and make sure they include that siblings, friends, and trusted adults shouldn't be touching in certain places

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 02:09 PM, said:

That says for a minor and not a 12 year old
A minor requires consent of a legal guardian (foster parent) for those actions under current law.
https://transgenderl...-with-cover.pdf
• In most cases, youth under the age of 18 must obtain the permission of their parents or guardian
to access any medical treatment, including treatment for gender transition.


( B ) (1) The right of minors and nonminors in foster care to health care and mental health care described in paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 16001.9 includes covered gender affirming health care and gender affirming mental health care. This right is subject to existing laws governing consent to health care for minors and nonminors and does not limit, add, or otherwise affect applicable laws governing consent to health care.

bruh.
you're posting old shit from 2010

the new codes allow:
a 12 year old and older can seek foster care (basically run away from home, from within and without the state)
said youth may then seek transgender treatment - and can have it signed off by foster parent, or failing that, a health care service provider, or a judge -or basically just sign it off themselves

(g) Foster youth who are 12 years of age or older have established rights to privately seek and consent to outpatient mental health counseling and treatment, including pursuant to Section 6924 of the Family Code and Section 124260 of the Health and Safety Code.

(h) Depending on a foster youth’s custody situation, a foster youth’s parent, social worker, licensed caregiver, judge, or the youth may give consent for the foster youth’s medical, surgical, dental, or other remedial care.

(k) It is the role of the child welfare agency, within the parameters set forth in Section 369 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to support dependent children’s ability to access medically necessary care, including gender affirming health care and gender affirming behavioral health services.
Assembly Bill No. 2119, Section 1

Section 369 of the Welfare and Institutions Code:
(h) Nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting the rights of dependent children, pursuant to Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 6920) of Part 4 of Division 11 of the Family Code

Section 6920 of Part 4 of Division 11 of the Family Code:
Subject to the limitations provided in this chapter, notwithstanding any other provision of law, a minor may consent to the matters provided in this chapter, and the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian is not necessary.


(d) The presence of a child in this state for the purpose of obtaining gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care, as defined by Section 16010.2 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, is sufficient to meet the requirements of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a).
Senate Bill No. 107, section 4

(a) A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is subjected to, or threatened with, mistreatment or abuse, or because the child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care, as defined by Section 16010.2 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
Senate Bill No. 107, section 5

[Phredreeke]

God forbid 12 year old foster kids are allowed SSRIs.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 02:19 PM, said:

but this is not accurate^


anyway, both parents need to be involved and make sure they include that siblings, friends, and trusted adults shouldn't be touching in certain places

Some of the main perpetrators is still accurate.
Anything higher then 10% in my mind would classify a group as a dangerous perpetrator of X that needs to be taken into consideration
However that is pure opinion.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

Forge, on 28 October 2022 - 02:29 PM, said:

bruh.
you're posting old shit from 2010

the new codes allow:
a 12 year old and older can seek foster care (basically run away from home, from within and without the state)
said youth may then seek transgender treatment - and can have it signed off by foster parent, or failing that, a health care service provider, or a judge -or basically just sign it off themselves

(g) Foster youth who are 12 years of age or older have established rights to privately seek and consent to outpatient mental health counseling and treatment, including pursuant to Section 6924 of the Family Code and Section 124260 of the Health and Safety Code.

(h) Depending on a foster youth’s custody situation, a foster youth’s parent, social worker, licensed caregiver, judge, or the youth may give consent for the foster youth’s medical, surgical, dental, or other remedial care.

(k) It is the role of the child welfare agency, within the parameters set forth in Section 369 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to support dependent children’s ability to access medically necessary care, including gender affirming health care and gender affirming behavioral health services.
Assembly Bill No. 2119, Section 1

Section 369 of the Welfare and Institutions Code:
(h) Nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting the rights of dependent children, pursuant to Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 6920) of Part 4 of Division 11 of the Family Code

Section 6920 of Part 4 of Division 11 of the Family Code:
Subject to the limitations provided in this chapter, notwithstanding any other provision of law, a minor may consent to the matters provided in this chapter, and the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian is not necessary.


(d) The presence of a child in this state for the purpose of obtaining gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care, as defined by Section 16010.2 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, is sufficient to meet the requirements of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a).
Senate Bill No. 107, section 4

(a) A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is subjected to, or threatened with, mistreatment or abuse, or because the child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care, as defined by Section 16010.2 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
Senate Bill No. 107, section 5

https://www.abc10.co...firming%20care.

It's from 2010 but still valid
the video there may help you understand the information, better.

In most cases, youth under the age of 18 in California must obtain the permission of their parents or guardian to access any medical treatment,
including treatment for gender transition, according to the Transgender Law Center. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but none are related to gender-affirming care.

Also here you go
http://teenhealthlaw...nfChartFull.pdf

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 04:52 PM, said:

Some of the main perpetrators is still accurate.
Anything higher then 10% in my mind would classify a group as a dangerous perpetrator of X that needs to be taken into consideration
However that is pure opinion.

'some' can be anything from 2 people to 180 million people.
but it's not the majority.

If we want to be honest, the 'problem groups' are insular religious sects of mormons, muslims, amish, etc. They have their own gated communities and do gross shit behind those gates.

[Forge]

Balls of Steel Forever, on 28 October 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:

https://www.abc10.com

a little ironic that disney owns abc. we all know what disney is trying to do with children.

12 year-olds can run away from home, become a ward of the state, make their own mental health decisions about their 'identity' and start the process to gender affirming healthcare, which allows them to get their transition surgery/suppression treatments signed off without anyone's consent.

It also allows for one parent to 'kidnap' their child (age not specified) and flee to california where they'll get uncontested sole custody of the child - in situations where both parents don't agree on transition surgery and the one that does want the surgery is the 'kidnapper'.

12 year olds in california are considered to be mentally mature enough to make their own decisions.
even bills AB 1356 and AB1184 allow 12 year olds to get abortions without their parent's consent.

It's not political. This is a billion dollar industry and you know officials in this chain of decision making are getting kickbacks and 'campaign donations'.

Even the seattle clinic accepts patients as young as 9 years old to start 'gender affirming treatement' (blockers, surgery). Parental consent is required, but washington state privacy laws prevent caregivers/parents from accessing the child's medical records to see what treatment their child is receiving.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 29 October 2022 - 04:25 AM, said:

It's not political. This is a billion dollar industry and you know officials in this chain of decision making are getting kickbacks and 'campaign donations'.

Big pharma loves medicalized identities. Literally fall apart unless you keep taking hormones.

Fascinating article from the NYT. We wonder, are many US “LBGT health” or “gender clinics” using this same profit scheme? Investigative reporters needed! “How a Hospital Chain Used a Poor Neighborhood to Turn Huge Profits” - The New York Times

[Phredreeke]

Forge, on 29 October 2022 - 04:25 AM, said:

even bills AB 1356 and AB1184 allow 12 year olds to get abortions without their parent's consent.

If a 12 year old is pregnant then maybe the parents haven't been doing a very good job in the first place?

[Forge]

Phredreeke, on 29 October 2022 - 06:45 AM, said:

If a 12 year old is pregnant then maybe the parents haven't been doing a very good job in the first place?

probably getting their 'sex education' in public schools

pretty sure the groomers instructors are using the condoms to make balloon animals

[Phredreeke]

That wouldn't happen if you hillbillies didn't refuse to put them on blockers

[Forge]

I'm not opposed to sterilizing with prejudice any adult whom impregnates or has sex with 12 year olds

[Phredreeke]

No, you gotta block them when their young, so they remain prepubescent twinks fortyone. sorry, freudian slip. forever.