[FistMarine]

What's this thing?
We play through a set of maps/mods during the month, and use this thread to discuss it as we're still all fresh with our comments/opinions/feelings about the maps.

What's the purpose?
Basically, there are 4 purposes:

• Showcasing some of the older mods/maps to wider public - they definitely deserve the attention!
• Getting more people to actually enjoy and appreciate the user content - because let's be honest, over the past 25 years this was really what kept Duke alive after all.
• ...and while we're at it - keeping Duke alive by still enjoying it, as there's no new games in the franchise on the horizon (and let's be honest, they wouldn't be as good as some of this stuff!).
• Having a more structurized discussion on maps than what's going in "Last map you played" thread - which is great, but it's basically a monologue most of the time.

Can I join?
Sure, as long as you find some spare time during the month to play the stuff that's on the table!

Why a month?
Because people have lives, jobs or other stuff to do (like mapping). For smaller maps, this could be shorter time - it's all up to debate in the future!

What port should I use? Are mods allowed? Where to get the maps?
It's entirely up to you how you play the game, so you can use whatever port or mod allowed - it would be cool to state in your posts what you're using too, as there might be some slight differences between the ports! As for the maps, they should be always linked within the first post.

How should I play the maps or post about them?
Again, it's up to you. You can finish them all in one go or play them one by one whenever you feel like. On Doom forums, there's a rule that you should keep the pace by not posting about a map that has a higher number than the day of the month, so e.g. on 6th you shouldn't post about map 7 etc. I think that might be a good practice if there's a large interest in this, but first let's see how active the thread is for a start - so if there's nothing going on, feel free to post about whatever map you want to.

Previous editions:

Spoiler

February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021

For this month, two of the most well-known mods ever made for Duke Nukem 3D were chosen!
The first one is Last Reaction & Water Bases (aka Aquatic TC), a TWO-episode TC released in 1999 that feels like a long lost expansion pack made for Duke Nukem 3D. While the first half of the Last Reaction episode may not be that great, the TC picks up in quality in the second half of the episode (and most of the Water Bases episode), with some of the later levels being some of the best maps ever made for Duke Nukem 3D! Don't be discouraged by the first couple of maps! If you make it past them, you will get to see the better parts of the mod and see for yourself why LR&WB is considered a fan favorite!

The second one is Chimera (aka Genetic TC), which is the sequel to LR&WB and it even requires it to be installed in order to play the Chimera episode! However, I recommend making two separate DUKE3D directories, as there might be side effects involved if playing through LR&WB with Chimera assets loaded. Therefore, it is recommended to first play through LR&WB and once done, install CHIMERA on top of it.

Unfortunately, Chimera was released as unfinished. While both Last Reaction and Water Bases each have 11 maps (which is the length of episodes 2, 3 and 4 of the original game), Chimera has only 7 maps available and the last one has a nuke button that doesn't even work, meaning the Chimera episode can't be even finished properly. There is also a sound issue with the chaingun, which is silent in Chimera. These were fixed in the version included in the EDuke32 addon compilation, so if you want the best experience, you can play that version included, which also provides new soundtrack for Water Bases episode and Chimera is no longer dependent on having LR&WB installed, as both addons are properly regrouped/repacked. I will still provide the original download links/versions of the mods, to be played in Duke3D Atomic v1.5 in DOSBox. The original version of LR&WB even includes a nice intro demo. Too bad it quickly desyncs within the first couple of seconds, with the player killing himself with his own trip mines and the rest of the demo showing the player dead for minutes straight. But don't let that demo disappoint you!

What are you waiting for? Download the mods right now!

Gamers.org (Gamers.org download link, LR&WB only)
Dukeworld (Dukeworld download link, Chimera and LR&WB)

Alternatively, you can check NightFright's Addon Compilation to play the episodes.

A few helpful hints/notes (based on my last playthroughs from many years ago):

-In these mods, Duke's max health is changed to 125 instead of 100. This also affects the following: the amount of health inside Portable Medkit (125), the max atomic health (250), the max armor amount (125, the amount received per armor pickup is unchanged) and the amount of health received from using the toilet (it is hardcoded to give 10% of your base health, which means in this case, you get 12 health every time you use the toilet). This will take a while to get used to the new health/armor limits, so try to continue conserving the health and armor pickups for when you actually need them. For example, it is now fine to grab a large medkit when at 90 health. But, if you have 225 health and come across another atomic health, you may want to save it for later!
-Supplies are scarce in the first few maps (especially in the Last Reaction episode). Be sure to explore to find the essential stuff!
-There is a new medkit item, that gives you a portable medkit, armor and steroids! It is shown in the LR&WB demo (before it desyncs). Can only be picked up if holding the USE button. I recommend grabbing it if out of both medkit and armor (or just little of both), so you don't get to waste the pickup if you didn't need the contents. I recall there was also a minor glitch with the armor resetting to 100 (if you had more than that before grabbing the new medkit item), so you may want to grab it when you really need it (or save a normal armor pickup for later) if you care about having full armor (125).
-The new boss from the Water Bases episode is quite tough! Be sure to stand far away when finishing him off or else his large explosion will take you out!

Have fun!

[Ninety-Six]

I played this again just a month ago. Second time through, I ended up realizing I don't much care for Water Bases either. You are constantly thrown against overlord sentries with no heavy weapons until a secret in the fifth level. It's not even that difficult, but it's tedious and they end up eating so much of your ammunition leaving you starved against all the other enemies in the level.

And this is from a completionist's perspective. 100% secrets.

[Ninety-Six]

Forgot to add this:

I seem to be in the minority for not just not really being enthusiastic for either episode, but I do actually like Chimera probably the best. There are some rough parts, most notably Ice Caves, Mountain Lab, and Natural Carnage, but it also has Twilight for the Drones, Big City Nights, and especially The Mother Base. If Chimera had ended at TMB, I'd probably not notice that it was unfinished. The Mother Base is probably a contender for being an all-time favorite of mine in all of Dukedom. The only flaw with Chimera (and the later parts of LR and bits of WB) are unmarked secrets, and sadly TMB doesn't escape that either. Well, that and a bug involving the final bridge where the miniboss swarm has a strong tendency to fall through it for some reason?

Still, that aside, I love Mother Base. It feels climactic as hell, the music is suitably oppressive and bold, it really feels like you're finally giving the aliens a black eye (after canonically fighting them over a span of five years), moreso than even in the base game (since the closest analogy would be The Queen but honestly Derelict felt closer to a finale) and you're up against the fiercest opposition I think I've ever seen, including all the new monsters and retooled Cycloid and Overlord sentries (even a mini-Queen). I think only big slaughtermaps rival the kind of opposition, though here it's not all-at-once, it's just heavy hitters after heavy hitters. And unlike the first parts of WB, you are properly equipped to deal with the threats, even from a pistol start. And goddamn does it feel good to walk up to the nukebutton, almost 500 monsters dead across the whole ship by your hand.

It's been two months since my replay and I still remember these maps in great detail. But TMB especially. It makes up for the parts of Chimera that drag, IMO. Hell it kinda makes up for a lot of the whole trilogy's missteps.


But not all of them. Go to hell everything before New L.A.. And also Old L.A. on Ice. But also parts of New L.A. itself (I should not have had to open mapster to find an invisible switch).


All that reminds me: Be sure to pick up the retranslated document for this:  LRWBrt.rtf (8.51K)
Number of downloads: 200


Also, definitely play the Addon Compilation version if you're using eduke32. It's broken otherwise.

[Aleks]

I played LRWB only once like 10 years ago, I don't remember that much besides the bleak story at the end of 2nd episode, which was quite a neat piece of Sci-fi storyline somehow conveniently put into a Duke setting. I didn't have strong feeling about the gameplay/levels I think, so it's a nice opportunity to replay it (especially since it's been on the rooster since the beginning of this little monthly event or so). Also thanks Ninety-Six for the heads-up about having to use the Addon Compilation version.

As for Chimera, I haven't played this one, also FistMarine complaining about it being broken wasn't really convincing me to try it out. But since it seems the issues are fixed within the Addon Compilation, guess it's a good time as any to try it out. Seems to be a lot of levels total this month, not sure if I'll have time/motivation to play through them all, but I'll try.

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 02 March 2022 - 04:15 AM, said:

Seems to be a lot of levels total this month, not sure if I'll have time/motivation to play through them all, but I'll try.

Exactly 29, or 28 if you miss the secret level in Last Reaction (wouldn't blame you if you did; it is hidden in a real dickish place). WB and Chimera do not have secret levels.

30 levels flat if you also include Hidden Zone. Kind of surprised that isn't mentioned here...?

[ReaperAA]

As someone who nowadays primarily uses Raze to play Duke, I am slightly disappointed that Chimera is broken without the eduke32 addon compilation. I may or may not skip it. Water Bases however is something that I wanted to try for quite a while (never played it) and I have heard good things about it.

[Aleks]

ReaperAA, on 02 March 2022 - 06:35 AM, said:

As someone who nowadays primarily uses Raze to play Duke, I am slightly disappointed that Chimera is broken without the eduke32 addon compilation. I may or may not skip it. Water Bases however is something that I wanted to try for quite a while (never played it) and I have heard good things about it.

I think you could try the modified grp file that comes with Addon Compilation for Chimera in Raze as well.

[TheDragonLiner]

A mod that uses Ecco the Dolphin 2 music has to be good

[NNC]

Chimera is a weird inconsistent episode. I just didn't understand the episode's narrative, or where it was going. Almost felt like George W Bernard just threw everything he had in his stockpile into this episode. The levels are also very different in quality, almost to the level you wonder if they were made by the same man. That icy cave level was awful.

As for LRWB, both episodes shine in the last 4 levels. Launch Base was a significant leap in the quality (also it was the level where George left a few things behind, like those all-weapon secrets or the massive underwater segments), and levels became shorter. While Khaki Space alone is almost as big as the entire Lunar Apocalypse episode, levels after Launch Base are much shorter, and easier to navigate for the casual player.

The last 4 levels in WB are amazing. The monster composition alone worth a mention (newbeasts, drones, slimers and turrets in Alienation and Tower in Space, while drones and water octabrains in Back to LA), but also the desolated atmosphere and generally the design was phenomenal. The drone boss was the most memorable boss ever in this game, and that includes the original bosses.

My favourite levels:
- Back to LA: phenomenal atmosphere
- Tower in Space: great colours and gameplay
- Alien Detraining: a quite original city map with the invading UFO... did this better than Roch8 IMHO
- Ace of Clover: very clever texturing, good layout and battles
- Alienation: again, very clever map, some Aliens vibes in it
- The Great Stadium: It makes a very good pair with Detraining... the cyclops battle was well done too
- Changing the Future: for the boss batlle itself

[Ninety-Six]

The Watchtower, on 02 March 2022 - 08:17 AM, said:

I just didn't understand the episode's narrative, or where it was going.

The same could be said for Last Reaction, or even some vanilla episodes like The Birth, or Lunar Apocalypse to an extent.


That being said, Chimera does follow a narrative of sorts. Pretty much everything up to natural carnage is Duke infiltrating an earthbound EAF genetics lab (unlike AMC, I'm like 99% sure that story-wise, the EAF in this trilogy is the aliens' specialized division to counter the EDF). The base is already visibly suffering damage from something, as stuff keeps breaking and exploding. IIRC there's even a weird roar. There's a brief detour where the damage to the base kicks Duke into the ice caves below. He finds a backdoor to return to the facility, stumbling upon a part of the base researching the shrinker crystals. This takes him to the upper levels, to the actual genetics lab. As he approaches the main lab, the chimera escapes, causing a crapton of even more damage and collapsing entire sections of the labs. Ultimately the damage causes the whole base to explode and Duke scrambles out of a vent into a ravine.

Duke now has to climb his way out of the ravine, passing through an EAF storehouse on the way, until reaching the top of the ravine which takes him to a swamp. He breaks into what I assume is an EAF lookout post (the cabin; there are alien framed pictures in it, which are only found in EAF locations). The lookout houses an airboat, which Duke takes to their main command center on earth: The Mother Base. Precisely why he does that I'm admittedly not sure on, but since it does seem to be their main base of operations, does he really need another reason to take it out?

The Mother Base seems linked to a nearby sewage system, as seen in the very final room of the level, which Duke takes to the city. He tries to remain in the sewers, but has to go topside to get around some roadblocks before he can resume his journey underground, leading him to an underground secret lab (Hidden Zone). At this point I assume he's trying to find the chimera that had escaped.


I think it's fair to say that the reason it's unclear where Duke is going is simply because we don't ever get to see where he's going due to the project being cancelled. Duke levels, due to how there is no sort of NPC interaction or mid-episode cutscenes, you kinda just go with the flow until he gets there. Shrapnel City is a perfect example of this. Until you actually get to Stadium, you have no indication that that's where you've been trying to go the entire time. You know you're going somewhere and even have your helicopter shot down mid-flight to wherever it was supposed to go.

[NNC]

Ninety-Six, on 02 March 2022 - 10:35 AM, said:

The same could be said for Last Reaction, or even some vanilla episodes like The Birth, or Lunar Apocalypse to an extent.


That being said, Chimera does follow a narrative of sorts. Pretty much everything up to natural carnage is Duke infiltrating an earthbound EAF genetics lab (unlike AMC, I'm like 99% sure that story-wise, the EAF in this trilogy is the aliens' specialized division to counter the EDF). The base is already visibly suffering damage from something, as stuff keeps breaking and exploding. IIRC there's even a weird roar. There's a brief detour where the damage to the base kicks Duke into the ice caves below. He finds a backdoor to return to the facility, stumbling upon a part of the base researching the shrinker crystals. This takes him to the upper levels, to the actual genetics lab. As he approaches the main lab, the chimera escapes, causing a crapton of even more damage and collapsing entire sections of the labs. Ultimately the damage causes the whole base to explode and Duke scrambles out of a vent into a ravine.

Duke now has to climb his way out of the ravine, passing through an EAF storehouse on the way, until reaching the top of the ravine which takes him to a swamp. He breaks into what I assume is an EAF lookout post (the cabin; there are alien framed pictures in it, which are only found in EAF locations). The lookout houses an airboat, which Duke takes to their main command center on earth: The Mother Base. Precisely why he does that I'm admittedly not sure on, but since it does seem to be their main base of operations, does he really need another reason to take it out?

The Mother Base seems linked to a nearby sewage system, as seen in the very final room of the level, which Duke takes to the city. He tries to remain in the sewers, but has to go topside to get around some roadblocks before he can resume his journey underground, leading him to an underground secret lab (Hidden Zone). At this point I assume he's trying to find the chimera that had escaped.


I think it's fair to say that the reason it's unclear where Duke is going is simply because we don't ever get to see where he's going due to the project being cancelled. Duke levels, due to how there is no sort of NPC interaction or mid-episode cutscenes, you kinda just go with the flow until he gets there. Shrapnel City is a perfect example of this. Until you actually get to Stadium, you have no indication that that's where you've been trying to go the entire time. You know you're going somewhere and even have your helicopter shot down mid-flight to wherever it was supposed to go.

This is why LA Meltdown is still the best episode ever made for Duke Nukem 3D. Even without NPCs, cutscenes and whatnot, you are clearly feeling the progress as levels are getting darker and darker and closer to the conclusion in every minute. Lunar Apocalypse is mostly a collection of space maps (admittedly, some later levels, particularly Lunar Reactor and Dark Side have a great progression), Shrapnel City is a collection of city maps (and as you said, there is not a single level, that feels like a progress or indicates a conclusion), and The Queen is a collection of leftovers (the last 3 maps felt like a proper progression though).

In the case of Bernard's episodes, Last Reaction is some kind of an adventure, but it's inflated in both length and set pieces. It almost felt like a neverending story and hard to sit through despite the great individual merits. WB is like Lunar Apocalypse, except the bases are built underwater. The episode shifts gear in Alienation, when the Aliens aspect kick off, and as I said, this is the best part of the entire set. These 4 levels definitely have a progression feel to them, just like LA Meltdown.

[Aleks]

The Watchtower, on 02 March 2022 - 01:44 PM, said:

This is why LA Meltdown is still the best episode ever made for Duke Nukem 3D. Even without NPCs, cutscenes and whatnot, you are clearly feeling the progress as levels are getting darker and darker and closer to the conclusion in every minute. Lunar Apocalypse is mostly a collection of space maps (admittedly, some later levels, particularly Lunar Reactor and Dark Side have a great progression), Shrapnel City is a collection of city maps (and as you said, there is not a single level, that feels like a progress or indicates a conclusion), and The Queen is a collection of leftovers (the last 3 maps felt like a proper progression though).

Dunno about that, I mean progression from level to level is clear in LA Meltdown, but it's not like you know where you're heading right from the beginning. I think the remaining 3 original episodes also have quite decent continuity between the levels, if anything it's only at the end of LA Meltdown that you notice the aliens are sending babes to space, so you get some sense of purpose, then at the end of Lunar Apocalypse, there's the Cycloid face announcing attack on Earth and beginning of The Birth gives you a cutscene of what's your goal. But it's always just wandering around without any sense of actual purpose and knowing where you will end up and I've never had any problem with that.

Anyway, I've started playing LRWB last night and in this case, going through the whole episode in a single post probably wouldn't be the best option. I've just finished the 1st level of Last Reaction and I can relate pretty much to all the critical comments from Ninety-Six. God this level sucked. It was Nightmare Zone levels of bad, really. The design was mediocre with all the super-dark maze tunnels (and it wasn't just shaded dark, it had its visibility lowered, so even NVG didn't work well until a green glowing enforcer spawned right in your face spamming you with hitscan). Surviving wasn't difficult as there's plenty of atomic healths, but the ammo was so scarce I kept trying to have monsters infighting to save ammo. It included a point where I kept running around 2 commanders waiting for one of them to kill the other, then kick the surviving one to death (in the tunnels), because running past them would result in having to backtrack through tight, dark tunnels with a commander inside. The level took me 45 minutes, after the incident with commanders I had to check in Mapster for the "all guns" secret place location, which was still tricky to get, as the place is set up with tripmines that cannot be avoided or exploded in a single detonation, and I had only 2 devastator rockets This would almost work as a survival kind of level, but the layout was stupidly labrenthine and confusing. The last few rooms with random teleporters were quite exhausting after all the hassle this map has been up until this point.

Now I wonder how come this has become one of the most popular Duke 3D mods. I remember the later levels being good and atmospheric, especially the final boss, but with such an obscure first level with extremely high accessibility threshold, I'd imagine a lot of people would just get bored and stop playing further. For now I'm going to continue, if anything I mostly remembered the first level to be bad and not much the next ones, but dunno if I won't get bored from playing this along the way.

[FistMarine]

Ninety-Six, on 02 March 2022 - 04:31 AM, said:

Exactly 29, or 28 if you miss the secret level in Last Reaction (wouldn't blame you if you did; it is hidden in a real dickish place). WB and Chimera do not have secret levels.

30 levels flat if you also include Hidden Zone. Kind of surprised that isn't mentioned here...?

I actually had in mind Hidden Zone when creating the topic (in fact, I've mentioned Hidden Zone before when talking with Aleks through PMs, he can confirm that) but then I was thinking whether I should mention it or not, seeing as it qualifies as a map released by Mikko Sandt and I thought it's better to save it for when Mikko's maps get finally chosen (we also had a similar situation with Roch Island last year). Not to mention we already have plenty of maps to play through. However, I can make an exception and add Hidden Zone, although I can't edit the first post anymore, so here is the download link to it: https://dukeworld.co.../HiddenZone.zip

The map is for Duke3D v1.5 and it doesn't require Chimera to be installed, so just make sure you install on a clean Duke3D atomic folder. I don't think Hidden Zone is included in the addon compilation anyway, so you need to play it separately. I will probably play HZ and write about the map once I'm done with Chimera. As I will start playing through the mods soon and will most likely write about 6-7 maps per each post, meaning both LR and WB will see two write-ups each, in total with Chimera and Hidden Zone (bonus), I will write 5 lengthy posts. I hope that the screenshots will also fit in nicely. I will try to limit myself to 3 screenshots per each level, so as to not clutter up the topic.

I will play through the original versions of the mods in DOSBox to get the intended experience but for everyone else, I strongly recommend playing the Addon Compilation version in EDuke32. Although to clarify about Chimera, it's not that the original is broken as the maps themselves are playable and can be finished (except the last one), it's that the missing chaingun sound and level 7 not being finishable will drag down the experience a bit, then again what do you expect from a mod that wasn't finished and released as it is? But the rest maps should be great, as I remember they were fairly impressive, though I also remember that ice cave map being confusing and taking me a while to figure out how to get out of that. Then there's those bad parts of LR episode (and maybe some in WB as well). Fun times ahead! I can't wait to revisit these episodes in the following days!

@ReaperAA, the addon compilation version might also work in Raze, not sure as I never tried Raze before but I think it should work.

@TheDragonLiner, actually the soundtrack of Ecco the Dolphin 2 (in the Water Bases episode) is only available in the addon compilation version, based on the definitions of Chimera con files. I believe there is also a ROTT midi included in Last Reaction as well, again only in the compilation version. The original version of LR&WB should play the soundtrack from original episodes, I'm sure of that, as I don't remember hearing any different music back when I played the mod.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the comments so far! Let's hope this month will be more active and there will be some interesting comments/observations about the episodes. Like I said, I haven't played LR&WB and Chimera since around 2013-2014, which was in EDuke32 (though I also recall sometime in 2016 testing both addons in DOSBox with cheats, to help with some reports in the addon compilation), so I think a proper 100% playthrough this time around (including the Last Reaction secret level which I never found before, I remember having to warp to it to play it) will do the mods some great justice. I will also try to offer extra tips and other useful details to help players find certain secrets or general hints to deal with certain parts, etc. Almost like a walkthrough. Except it will probably take me hours to write just for a single episode, so I might just write about the most important parts for each level or something like that. I don't like having to write walls of texts, at least not always.

EDIT: Yeah, I remember the first level of Last Reaction being really bad. I remember the very first time I tried LR&WB (in 2011 or so), I quit halfway in first level and then tried to play the Water Bases episode and then lost interest and wondered how the mod was popular in first place. It sucks that most players have to first experience those first Last Reaction levels, before the good ones finally come in. I'm glad that in 2013-2014 I pushed it further and got to finish the mod eventually (mostly thanks to lots of saving and abusing drinking water from fountains, especially in first level). I wonder how I will be able to do it in the DOS version with vanilla controls this time around, though at least getting all secrets should greatly help.

If only the author returned one day and properly finished Chimera, as well as polishing LR&WB (maybe even making a 4th episode, so it's a full game replacement), then we would have one of the best mods ever made for Duke3D and it would feel on par with the base game!

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 03:38 AM, said:

For now I'm going to continue, if anything I mostly remembered the first level to be bad and not much the next ones, but dunno if I won't get bored from playing this along the way.

As a warning, the "DNSTUFF secrets" as I call them don't stop until Old L.A. on Ice (E1L7). The saving grace is the levels stop being balanced around those secrets about the time you get to New L.A.

Also a warning: prepare to suffer at Lunar Factory (E1L5). Even playing continuous, even getting all secrets including the DNSTUFF Secrets, you are going to be starved for ammo if you try to kill everything. Unless you're a completionist, don't suffer against all the minibosses everywhere. If you are a completionist, feel free to join me in mourning our lost time and effort.

FistMarine, on 03 March 2022 - 04:48 AM, said:

I actually had in mind Hidden Zone when creating the topic (in fact, I've mentioned Hidden Zone before when talking with Aleks through PMs, he can confirm that) but then I was thinking whether I should mention it or not, seeing as it qualifies as a map released by Mikko Sandt and I thought it's better to save it for when Mikko's maps get finally chosen (we also had a similar situation with Roch Island last year).

I really don't think it counts as a Mikko level, honestly. All he did was stitch two maps together and try to figure out a starting location. Maybe he did enemy placement, I don't remember, but trust me it's still a George Bernard level.

FistMarine, on 03 March 2022 - 04:48 AM, said:

Although to clarify about Chimera, it's not that the original is broken as the maps themselves are playable and can be finished (except the last one), it's that the missing chaingun sound and level 7 not being finishable will drag down the experience a bit,

I...have no idea what you're talking about. I was able to beat level 7 just fine... twice. I never noticed any hiccups when it came to completing the level.

The only level I had any issue with was this one specific spot in Ice Caves where eduke's new broke-ass clipping makes it impossible to climb through (but it is still possible to drop through. I can't remember if that was part of the critical path or one of the multiple possible routes). But I honestly don't hold that against the map itself, or really even the compilation (though they should probably be notified; surprised nobody has yet). That's an engine-level issue that should have been accounted for when they made that stupid change.

FistMarine, on 03 March 2022 - 04:48 AM, said:

@TheDragonLiner, actually the soundtrack of Ecco the Dolphin 2 (in the Water Bases episode) is only available in the addon compilation version, based on the definitions of Chimera con files. I believe there is also a ROTT midi included in Last Reaction as well, again only in the compilation version. The original version of LR&WB should play the soundtrack from original episodes, I'm sure of that, as I don't remember hearing any different music back when I played the mod.

Yeah, DOS original plays vanilla music, besides the final level. I'm also pretty sure one song was switched out in LR for that ROTT song.

That said, I do actually think the ToT music suits WB well. The music is very dreary and it kind of suits the sort of empty, "alone in a hostile world" vibe the episode itself gives off. In fact I actually play with a mod of my own that plays the original Genesis versions of the music instead of the midi. If anyone is interested in the "enhanced music" let me know and I'll see if I can put it on my drive.

EDIT: I'm considering doing a short write-up for the DNSTUFF Secrets since the levels are literally balanced around them up until the halfway point of the episode, and since from Khaki Space onward George decides to stop marking his secrets in any way...

Is that something anyone would make use of?

[TheDragonLiner]

Ninety-Six, Curious about what you would think about the CD version of the soundtrack. You say it's dark and dreary, well the CD version is even more ^^ Also, certain tracks in the CD version has some sort of tribal vibe to them with the drums namely.


I've been playing Chimera lately (with compilation). I'll be sloppy since unprepared but ...

First level, I really like. I'd say it's a good first level. There's nothing much to say about it except that the beginning area is the most memorable part of it IMO. Only complain I have is that door you must blow up from behind from a Vent. The reason being that the bars in the vent, and the angle of view on the door, doesn't show the crack clearly enough. It can be missed VERY easily. Because, instinctively you're like > "Oh it's barred off, better look for another way. This must be a shortcut of later of sorts"
I also really like the mysterious music.


Second level is definitely the worst. Even orientation can be off-put by the lack of clear distinctive elements. You're basically using TabMap from A to Z. And then people complain about Zaxtor's maps ... for way different reasons though >_>
This map really comes to mind when you read somebody's earlier comment who said "It looks like it was made by a completely different person". Also, that map gives us WAY TOO MUCH 0th weapon ammo. While I really like this weapon, there's too much here, and it's also the least practical one outside of certain water areas.
However, I like the music, too bad the drums are so stupidly loud because I really love the theme behind it. If anybody knows where it comes from, I'm all ears !


Third level is an interesting case IMO. Quite creative. The idea of digging a tunnel through walls in order to clear the path for a Shrink Blast ... I've personally never ever seen anything like this before. That level has some interesting design here and there but, it's really just the concept behind it that makes it memorable. Otherwise, it's globally forgettable imo. Even the music doesn't add much apart from the relatively calm ambiance.

Fourth level is more classic, and more thouroughly designed IMO. There are more details in certain rooms, and more variety overall. Not a fan of the music but it accompanies the action correctly IMO. Only complain in that level is a relatively cheaply placed Cycloïd Emperor behind a door and the ridiculously high amount of Shotgun ammo x_x I also like the transition with both the previous and next levels. Though that has been discussed already.

Fifth level is my first favorite. Really like the idea of progressively climbing out of a canyong like that. The visuals are kinda charming, especially as you're reaching the top, and the enemy placement is quite fine IMO. I also really like the music, again if somebody knows where it comes from ....


I'm currently in the Sixth level. I remember having struggled with the fighting in that level. I was playing Doom's Plutonia Revisited pack before playing Chimera for a break, and looking at that 6th level's enemy placement and quantity, it kinda feels like a Doomish level IMO. For combat still ! Can't say more since I'm not far in.
Not a fan of the music but again it fits well with the theme, and also the interior designs are mighty fine. Probably the objectively best map of all IMO. Unless I change my mind later ....

[Ninety-Six]

TheDragonLiner, on 03 March 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

Ninety-Six, Curious about what you would think about the CD version of the soundtrack. You say it's dark and dreary, well the CD version is even more ^^ Also, certain tracks in the CD version has some sort of tribal vibe to them with the drums namely.

Yeah I know. It's good too, but I'm partial to the Genesis soundtrack.

Kind of a reverse of the first game, actually, where I prefer the CD OST, especially for the musical motif carried throughout.

I could spend hours talking Ecco but that's not this thread.

Spoiler

St. Gabriel's Mask from ToT's CD soundtrack is amazing though I won't lie.

TheDragonLiner, on 03 March 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

However, I like the music, too bad the drums are so stupidly loud because I really love the theme behind it. If anybody knows where it comes from, I'm all ears !

The readme file credits the song to Madonna, and the filename is "frozen.mid." Make of that what you will.


Also I will defend the Freezethrower to my dying days and will protect this hill with my life!

TheDragonLiner, on 03 March 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

Third level is an interesting case IMO. Quite creative. The idea of digging a tunnel through walls in order to clear the path for a Shrink Blast ... I've personally never ever seen anything like this before.

It's funny. It was shocking to me that Aleks just now said he hadn't played Chimera before. I was all but certain SubMachine was an homage to this trilogy, and specifically this level since it's set in an underground research lab for the express purpose of researching the shrinker crystals.

TheDragonLiner, on 03 March 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

Fifth level is my first favorite. Really like the idea of progressively climbing out of a canyong like that. The visuals are kinda charming, especially as you're reaching the top, and the enemy placement is quite fine IMO. I also really like the music, again if somebody knows where it comes from ....

Readme credits it to a "James Hollidge aka 'Cyborg,'" and the filename is hope.mid.

Natural Carnage is one of my personal least favorites actually, mostly because I find the navigation of the canyon itself very difficult due to how narrow the paths are and how line of sight is constantly being blocked by larger rocks and spires. Makes it very hard for me to tell where I am in relation to everything else, and more importantly where I've already been.

I like the top parts of the canyon at least. The lookout cabin is neat.

[TheDragonLiner]

Okay.
I too could talk longly about Ecco ^^


For that Hope music, the only thing I find with the artist name is the author of the "Incubation" mod. Is it the same person who made the music O_o ?


BTW, about narrative in Chimera, I can't help but notice the fact the title screen says "Duke Nukem 3D : Genetics". Therefore making me think that the new yellow monster we see on the splash-screen and in the levels, are the result of a genetic experiment conducted in the Mounatin Lab based on the Protector Drones in order to create a more range capable variant.

[Aleks]

Wow, such a lively topic this month, nice to see it! Good choice, FistMarine (since it was mostly yours pick this time)

FistMarine, on 03 March 2022 - 04:48 AM, said:

I will also try to offer extra tips and other useful details to help players find certain secrets or general hints to deal with certain parts, etc. Almost like a walkthrough. Except it will probably take me hours to write just for a single episode, so I might just write about the most important parts for each level or something like that. I don't like having to write walls of texts, at least not always.

Don't worry if you don't feel like writing lengthy walkthroughs, probably by now there's already plenty for LRWB levels, including Youtube playthroughs I guess. To be honest, I'd rather read your more straightforward opinions on the levels

Ninety-Six, on 03 March 2022 - 05:15 AM, said:

As a warning, the "DNSTUFF secrets" as I call them don't stop until Old L.A. on Ice (E1L7). The saving grace is the levels stop being balanced around those secrets about the time you get to New L.A.

Also a warning: prepare to suffer at Lunar Factory (E1L5). Even playing continuous, even getting all secrets including the DNSTUFF Secrets, you are going to be starved for ammo if you try to kill everything. Unless you're a completionist, don't suffer against all the minibosses everywhere. If you are a completionist, feel free to join me in mourning our lost time and effort.

Don't remember shit about these levels anymore really. I'll try to finish a couple more tonight, too tired to do any mapping anyway, so hopefully it's more chill experience rather than a frustrating one, otherwise fuck it

Quote

I...have no idea what you're talking about. I was able to beat level 7 just fine... twice. I never noticed any hiccups when it came to completing the level.

I think FistMarine mentioned the last level having broken nukebutton in the original version of the mod.

Quote

That's an engine-level issue that should have been accounted for when they made that stupid change.

Probably there's more to it, the EDuke guys just changed/fixed one thing and didn't notice something else breaking. I tend to play most older stuff in r7935, which seems to be the last version before the extensive clipping changes were made.

Quote

That said, I do actually think the ToT music suits WB well. The music is very dreary and it kind of suits the sort of empty, "alone in a hostile world" vibe the episode itself gives off. In fact I actually play with a mod of my own that plays the original Genesis versions of the music instead of the midi. If anyone is interested in the "enhanced music" let me know and I'll see if I can put it on my drive.

I think it would be cool if you'd upload it here, even in this thread (unless it's a clear copyright infringement of course ).

Ninety-Six, on 03 March 2022 - 09:07 AM, said:

It's funny. It was shocking to me that Aleks just now said he hadn't played Chimera before. I was all but certain SubMachine was an homage to this trilogy, and specifically this level since it's set in an underground research lab for the express purpose of researching the shrinker crystals.

Hahaha, that's 2nd time in 2 days! Just yesterday ck3D sent me a video from Dukem Memorial Hospital by BillyBoy with red key puzzle very similar to the one in Submachine, using conveyor belts. This one I admit to having played though, but didn't remember it, so not sure it was an inspiration, unless a very subconcious one. Had no idea about that level in Chimera though!

TheDragonLiner, on 03 March 2022 - 11:30 AM, said:

For that Hope music, the only thing I find with the artist name is the author of the "Incubation" mod. Is it the same person who made the music O_o ?

I remember there was a guy with nickname Cyborg on old AMC forums, I think he's even in the AMC TC, though he was mainly a coder IIRC. No idea if it's the same guy from Incubation mod or from that music piece though, but perhaps you could ask someone from AMC TC makers.

[NNC]

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 03:38 AM, said:

Dunno about that, I mean progression from level to level is clear in LA Meltdown, but it's not like you know where you're heading right from the beginning. I think the remaining 3 original episodes also have quite decent continuity between the levels, if anything it's only at the end of LA Meltdown that you notice the aliens are sending babes to space, so you get some sense of purpose, then at the end of Lunar Apocalypse, there's the Cycloid face announcing attack on Earth and beginning of The Birth gives you a cutscene of what's your goal. But it's always just wandering around without any sense of actual purpose and knowing where you will end up and I've never had any problem with that.

Anyway, I've started playing LRWB last night and in this case, going through the whole episode in a single post probably wouldn't be the best option. I've just finished the 1st level of Last Reaction and I can relate pretty much to all the critical comments from Ninety-Six. God this level sucked. It was Nightmare Zone levels of bad, really. The design was mediocre with all the super-dark maze tunnels (and it wasn't just shaded dark, it had its visibility lowered, so even NVG didn't work well until a green glowing enforcer spawned right in your face spamming you with hitscan). Surviving wasn't difficult as there's plenty of atomic healths, but the ammo was so scarce I kept trying to have monsters infighting to save ammo. It included a point where I kept running around 2 commanders waiting for one of them to kill the other, then kick the surviving one to death (in the tunnels), because running past them would result in having to backtrack through tight, dark tunnels with a commander inside. The level took me 45 minutes, after the incident with commanders I had to check in Mapster for the "all guns" secret place location, which was still tricky to get, as the place is set up with tripmines that cannot be avoided or exploded in a single detonation, and I had only 2 devastator rockets This would almost work as a survival kind of level, but the layout was stupidly labrenthine and confusing. The last few rooms with random teleporters were quite exhausting after all the hassle this map has been up until this point.

Now I wonder how come this has become one of the most popular Duke 3D mods. I remember the later levels being good and atmospheric, especially the final boss, but with such an obscure first level with extremely high accessibility threshold, I'd imagine a lot of people would just get bored and stop playing further. For now I'm going to continue, if anything I mostly remembered the first level to be bad and not much the next ones, but dunno if I won't get bored from playing this along the way.

I was lucky to start with Water Bases back then. I found the title more interesting. And when the first level appeared, I though I have pirated an official add-on. I played Last Reaction later, and my tolerance level was high because of my Water Base experience. But also the last few levels in Last Reaction were pretty good. The secret level (and to a lesser extent, Launch Base's inner locations) were very similar to Water Bases in style. I also enjoyed Old LA on Ice despite its shortcomings. The outside sections really felt like a real place to me. And the last two levels were pure perfection.

Btw. the joint JonoF and Jason Bredhauer episode (JJ Duke Nukem 3D) is very similar in this: the first episode by JonoF was really bad, but the third one (the second was just a short unfinished space episode) by Bredhauer was really strong. Far from perfection, but it had a genuine urban atmosphere.

[ck3D]

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

Don't worry if you don't feel like writing lengthy walkthroughs, probably by now there's already plenty for LRWB levels, including Youtube playthroughs I guess.

Fun fact: rather ironically, as of today still, there is close to zero LR&WB content on YouTube (but a few minutes of one kid getting lost in an empty area in one of the levels and calling it content). I think it may be the big, 'classic' TC with the least amount of fan video coverage vs. its actual popularity ratio right now.

[NNC]

ck3D, on 03 March 2022 - 06:23 PM, said:

Fun fact: rather ironically, as of today still, there is close to zero LR&WB content on YouTube (but a few minutes of one kid getting lost in an empty area in one of the levels and calling it content). I think it may be the big, 'classic' TC with the least amount of fan video coverage vs. its actual popularity ratio right now.

I think Mikko and me inflated the popularity of the TC back then in the AMC days, when we were "shilling" it regularly. I still find it good, although need to play again (last time it was like 10+ years ago).

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

I think FistMarine mentioned the last level having broken nukebutton in the original version of the mod.

Well in that case I can confirm that the nukebutton works in the addon compilation.

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

Probably there's more to it, the EDuke guys just changed/fixed one thing and didn't notice something else breaking. I tend to play most older stuff in r7935, which seems to be the last version before the extensive clipping changes were made.

You should be fine then.

Aleks, on 03 March 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

I think it would be cool if you'd upload it here, even in this thread (unless it's a clear copyright infringement of course ).

It's not like I'm distributing the rom file or anything. As far as I know there wasn't a soundtrack release of the Genesis version, either, and I'm not even sure Sega remembers they own the IP. They're also usually pretty chill when it comes to this sort of thing. DNF2013 didn't seem to have trouble when it included the Vectorman music.

If there's a complaint I'll get rid of it but for now,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Now, since the EAC structures things super tightly, I admit I wasn't sure how to get just the music across. Admittedly, the way I tend to play the compilation stuff is just to extract each of the /grps into their own folder (so that I can modify them, such as to add widescreen graphics), and as far as I know I can't just put these into a folder called "music" and expect eduke to read that directory. If I'm wrong though, feel free to correct me and I'll update the link.

But in the meantime, I did use the opportunity to cut down on file size since two of the songs (ff and deepridg) are actually duplicates of each other, so the user.con has been altered to point to just one of the files, allowing me to cut out the other.

ck3D, on 03 March 2022 - 06:23 PM, said:

Fun fact: rather ironically, as of today still, there is close to zero LR&WB content on YouTube (but a few minutes of one kid getting lost in an empty area in one of the levels and calling it content). I think it may be the big, 'classic' TC with the least amount of fan video coverage vs. its actual popularity ratio right now.

I guess I can put that on my list of maps/mods to record.

When I get a better harddrive because an entire episode can take forever.

[Aleks]

Ninety-Six, on 04 March 2022 - 12:45 AM, said:

It's not like I'm distributing the rom file or anything. As far as I know there wasn't a soundtrack release of the Genesis version, either, and I'm not even sure Sega remembers they own the IP. They're also usually pretty chill when it comes to this sort of thing. DNF2013 didn't seem to have trouble when it included the Vectorman music.

I admit I'm a complete moron here or was blurred by working too long yesterday, but when I wrote about possible copyright infringement, I genuinely thought that with Genesis you meant Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins kind of Genesis

As for EAC, yeah I do that to, extracting the grps into their own folders, otherwise apparently can't get it to work properly or the launch screen just shows me a bunch of assorted GRPs to choose from. It's great for all the bug/compatibility fixes it provides, especially for older TCs, but IMO not really as a multilauncher tool.

[LakiSoft]

Due the reasons already mentioned here, i decided to start playing from Water Bases rather than Last Reaction. From what i remembered from past, first level of Last Reaction sucked ass so bad. Water Bases, on another hand, is great classic mix of vibes from original Lunar Apocalypse and The Birth at one place. I reached Atlantis level so far. I would agree with @TheWatchtower that this nice classic could be easily confused with an official expansion.

I played first 5 or so levels of Water Bases episode. Note that due having some keyboard issues and some arrows not working properly i played bit noobish while i was recording video.

Duke Nukem 3D - LRWB - Water Bases Longplay video - Part 1
Watch here: https://files.fm/f/x5x5prnge

Note that video quality is low to keep file size small as possible.

BTW, Glad to see that, compared to last month when it was silent, that this month the club got some more deserved attention. Good Choice, FistMarine!

[ReaperAA]

Just got through the first 3 maps of LR and boy did I hated these maps. The first map especially can just f**k off. I hated the cave parts and the 5 teleporter rooms. Another thing annoying about these is the DNSTUFF secrets that Ninety-Six mentioned. They are overpowered, but also necessary otherwise you will be running out of ammo. I assume that the first map also has at least one of such, because I ran out of ammo on my first attempt and had to skip enemies on my second attempt. Because of this issue, I am not pistol starting these maps and instead just playing continuous.

The 2nd map is also pretty bad (especially the lava maze which is more of a jump key spam test than anything actually threatening), but thankfully it is much shorter and I also managed to discover the OP DNSTUFF secrets in the lava maze area which made it much smoother.

The 3rd map seems like a pretty decent improvement from the first 2 maps, level design wise. Though the combat is still annoying and I am also not a fan of moving on steep slopes and tight ledges to climb the mountain/hills/caves. I am kinda salty that I died 3 times on this map, 2 of them halfway through and due to environment hazards. That and the fact that the 4th map has 400+ enemies means that I am likely going to use saves from here on.

[TheDragonLiner]

By the way guys, about the 5 Teleporter Puzzle in the first level of Last Reaction. I have just managed to go through it without too much trouble.

I don't know if I understood the thing correclty but basically, I told myself "What if the numbers were like a Maths thing ?".


First I went randomly and found the 10110 thing. I know this is the switch combination, but hear me out. I went back to the beginning. I took Teleporter #1. Then I went to Teleporter 1/1, thinking "1-1=0".
Then I went to Teleporter 2/1 thinking "2-1=1" and found the Red KeyCard. I then went back to the beginning.

I took Teleporter 1. Then took Teleporter 2/1 again, and then went to Teleporter 2/2 thinking "2-2=0", OctaBrain Room went Right Switch puzzle, then backtracked to beginning,

No logic but then you take Telporter 3 and then 3/3, and then back to the beginning where the Final Door is open.


I think this has its place more in the Compilation thread ^^;
I don't know if Gingin Khan shows an optimal path in his playthrough, since it doesn't want to load on my end, but just in case ^^

[Ninety-Six]

ReaperAA, on 04 March 2022 - 10:29 PM, said:

Just got through the first 3 maps of LR and boy did I hated these maps. The first map especially can just f**k off. I hated the cave parts and the 5 teleporter rooms. Another thing annoying about these is the DNSTUFF secrets that Ninety-Six mentioned. They are overpowered, but also necessary otherwise you will be running out of ammo. I assume that the first map also has at least one of such, because I ran out of ammo on my first attempt and had to skip enemies on my second attempt.

Yep. FTR the DNSTUFF Secret for level one is on top of the waterfall,past the swarms of octos and turrets. There is a single lit square that you can dive down into that contains the stash.

ReaperAA, on 04 March 2022 - 10:29 PM, said:

I also managed to discover the OP DNSTUFF secrets in the lava maze area which made it much smoother.

There's an even more OP one behind a crack underwater, but the lava caves caches are also pretty strong.

ReaperAA, on 04 March 2022 - 10:29 PM, said:

I am kinda salty that I died 3 times on this map, 2 of them halfway through and due to environment hazards.

I'm not sure which I hate more, level 1 or level 3. The thing that makes level 3 insidious is you can get completely softlocked if you don't get the red key before you go down the water shaft.

The red key is hidden behind the building locked with the blue key. Which you can easily miss because there is no damn direction in the temple area. You have to climb one of the pyramids,which opens a small nest, which then raises stairs around the statue of the Emperor, which lets you hit a switch that raises the blue key atop the other pyramid. There's no indication that the switch does that, or that there even is a blue key on the other pyramid. If you climb up there first, which I did, you are given no indication that you should turn back.

And the deep water shaft isn't a deterrent either. Why would it be? The first level also has a deep shaft that you have to basically drown yourself in, because Bernard thought it would be funny if he put the scuba gear behind a crack in the canyon with its dirt-poor visibility. So if you didn't find the scuba gear, which most people wouldn't, then this next drowning pit in the jungle would seem like just another repeat of the first one. The notion that you should go find the scuba gear to progress safely, which is hidden behind that blue door, simply wouldn't be conveyed across.

And if you do go down there without that red key, you're stuck. You can't go forward, and you won't have the health to survive a trip back up the water shaft.


That was where my very first attempt at playing this mess of an episode ended.

ReaperAA, on 04 March 2022 - 10:29 PM, said:

That and the fact that the 4th map has 400+ enemies means that I am likely going to use saves from here on.

Khaki Space is the longest level in all three episodes by a mile.

[Aleks]

Was going to finish Khaki Space and write a post about level 2-4, but since a discussion already started, guess I'll just dive in already.

Basically, I agree with most of what ReaperAA said about these levels

2nd level wasn't that bad, it was pretty linear, the secrets were all kinda in your face and it was way smaller, so it was easier to backtrack for the ammo stashes whenever you needed any. It was still super dark and had useless parts like water basin where it is only possible in a single corner to dive or the lava maze (although I must say I really enjoyed the massive fight after the lava part, felt kinda like a catharsis). Can't make out much of what the design is supposed to be besides some generic base or something in this one, it's very 1996 user mappish stuff and not in a nice/cute/nostalgic way.

Ninety-Six, on 05 March 2022 - 08:01 AM, said:

And the deep water shaft isn't a deterrent either. Why would it be? The first level also has a deep shaft that you have to basically drown yourself in, because Bernard thought it would be funny if he put the scuba gear behind a crack in the canyon with its dirt-poor visibility. So if you didn't find the scuba gear, which most people wouldn't, then this next drowning pit in the jungle would seem like just another repeat of the first one. The notion that you should go find the scuba gear to progress safely, which is hidden behind that blue door, simply wouldn't be conveyed across.

And if you do go down there without that red key, you're stuck. You can't go forward, and you won't have the health to survive a trip back up the water shaft.

I didn't have any problem locating the scuba gear behind a crack in the first level and there's been plenty of that to replenish later on, so that got past me, but absolutely fuck the super deep descent in the 3rd map. What is even the point of that? Fucking 1+ minute long of just holding the crouching key in a dark section without any trimming.

Now to elaborate more about level 3 - well fuck level 3 Design wise it was the best so far, even if the grand scale is completely useless with such low visibility that you can't even see the top of a sector right above your head. But this is probably a handbook type of level on how not to do non-linear/open levels. This one was probably the most tedious level I've played, the combat was fine and with all the ammo stashes, I didn't struggle anywhere at all, but the backtracking and confusion...

So, after clearing the initial jungle area, I jetpacked on the other side of the river where some commanders kept shooting at me, found a stash with another jetpack, explored around the volcanoes, found a teleporter which transported me into a locked room - here I thought I need something to open it before teleporting, so I went back, triggered some earthquake in the temple, went up to blue key door, dived in that piece of shit deep well, found yellow key inside the volcano, made it to red key switch (BTW, I simply love the secrets which either spawn a fuckload of enemies right in your face - like the one in the room with red switch - or are mostly just a trap, like the one in the volcano caves which is full of tripmines and sentry drones, seriously?!). Spent a while wandering there until I realised there is nothing more to do and I have to backtrack through the damn well, fortunately I did have enough scuba to make it through. I explored the temple again, noticed the switch and blue keycard in this super obscure setting Ninety-Six mentioned, collected it, went into blue key building which was pitch-black and had a random battlelord-in-a-toilet trap, found the red key, dived back, made it all the way to red key switch only to realise it teleported me right into that damn volcano again :dukinuki.gif:

So basically, a large chunk of this level could be just skipped with jetpack and collecting only the yellow key, but without knowing it, you can backtrack through the whole level 2-3 times trying to piece together what's the intended way of progressing. Also putting all the ammo in just a few locations was quite annoying, it's just plain bad balancing, as you have to backtrack each time you run out of ammo instead of finding it as you progress.

With all that criticism, I still found this map slightly better than the first one, which says a lot... Started Khaki Space last night, doesn't look to promising after 10-15 minutes in and already getting stuck on some button puzzles, let's see what wonders await me further in!

[Ninety-Six]

Aleks, on 05 March 2022 - 10:19 AM, said:

and had useless parts like water basin where it is only possible in a single corner to dive

If we're talking about the same thing, you can dive in all four corners of that room, and they each have something to grab. One even has an atomic health. There's just only one that actually goes anywhere.

[LakiSoft]

I played some more of Water Bases episode. I went thru Atlantis, Ace of Clover and finally reached Alienated, where honestly i was vaporized twice TBH, although some new enemy types such as high blast radius Sentry Drones and overpowered Octabrains were bit annoying to handle, the level design that mixes styles of Toxic Dump, Lunar Apocalypse and The Birth were absolutely amazing. Sure, some situations like shitload Protector drone attacked like crazy in Atlantis level weren't very pleasant but that's still make good challenge in an Duke Nukem level.

As i reached Alienated level, i will be taking small break here. However, of what i played so far, you can watch part 2 of my Water Bases Longplay video.

Duke Nukem 3D - LRWB - Water Bases Longplay video - Part 2
Watch here: https://files.fm/f/ur7ctyva3

TheDragonLiner, on 05 March 2022 - 03:11 AM, said:

By the way guys, about the 5 Teleporter Puzzle in the first level of Last Reaction. I have just managed to go through it without too much trouble.

I don't know if I understood the thing correclty but basically, I told myself "What if the numbers were like a Maths thing ?".


First I went randomly and found the 10110 thing. I know this is the switch combination, but hear me out. I went back to the beginning. I took Teleporter #1. Then I went to Teleporter 1/1, thinking "1-1=0".
Then I went to Teleporter 2/1 thinking "2-1=1" and found the Red KeyCard. I then went back to the beginning.

I took Teleporter 1. Then took Teleporter 2/1 again, and then went to Teleporter 2/2 thinking "2-2=0", OctaBrain Room went Right Switch puzzle, then backtracked to beginning,

No logic but then you take Telporter 3 and then 3/3, and then back to the beginning where the Final Door is open.


I think this has its place more in the Compilation thread ^^;
I don't know if Gingin Khan shows an optimal path in his playthrough, since it doesn't want to load on my end, but just in case ^^

Actually this time i started playthrough from Water Bases episode this time. I know i should have played Last Reaction first in Chronological order, but last time i played Last Reaction several months ago, i was really annoyed by that fucking shit first level, and not because of its boring oversized structure, not even because of teleport puzzle, but mostly because of constant lack of ammo. Even if i somehow did managed to pass thru teleport puzzle, i still very appreciate that you shared your hint here, so next time i play Last Reaction, it will be definitely easier thanks to your hint. Thanks man. As for lack of ammo thing, i didn't even knew there was any "DNSTUFF" kind of secrets, but thanks to you, @Ninety-Six and other people here who shared this helpful hints, now i know! Thanks guys!

Now after i finish Water Bases episode, i will definitely try out Last Reaction and finally try to complete it properly.