[William Gee]

Who are the Authors of Knee Deep?
Kyanos and Micky C?

[Fantinaikos]

It was by Micky C and Drek, but Drek changed nickname in the meantime.

Maybe it's not important but according the documentation, the Addon Compilation version have few new files and bugfixes (at least those required at the time), mostly warnings, that standard 1.1 KD does not have.

[William Gee]

Hectic Realms could also be added if Mike Norvak was willing to make his levels compatible with Demon throne.
His quests could be transferd over, the levels would need to be made to look good in classic and some textures and sprites fixed using demon throne versions.

[Ninety-Six]

I never had a chance to play HR due to the polymer requirement, but that would be neat.

[Fantinaikos]

It was even totally playable in Polymost, I've betatested it in this way at the time. The description on Mod DB still states that it's possible play in both modes.

[Shadow_Wulfe]

Any advice on how to get past this BFG sound crash? So far I have tried changing from OpenGL and Voxel. Neither change seems to have helped.

[William Gee]

Do you have a save game we can test?...

[Ninety-Six]

Fantinaikos, on 17 November 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

It was even totally playable in Polymost, I've betatested it in this way at the time. The description on Mod DB still states that it's possible play in both modes.

That's probably why, then. I couldn't (and still can't) run Polymost. Granted the same could be said for WGR2 itself, I suppose. I guess I never bothered to try and see if it absolutely needed the 32-bit renderer for anything besides the occasional texture corruption.

[Danukem]

William Gee, on 17 November 2020 - 08:25 PM, said:

Do you have a save game we can test?...

Yes, and he already provided a link several days ago. I have added the link to the private discord.

[Danukem]

Shadow_Wulfe, on 17 November 2020 - 07:23 PM, said:

Any advice on how to get past this BFG sound crash? So far I have tried changing from OpenGL and Voxel. Neither change seems to have helped.

I have now looked into it and I can fix the bug, but I don't think that will help your saved game.

I think a BFG projectile was fired in the hub level before the last time you exited it, and that projectile is traveling through the air when you reenter the level. Essentially what happened is, that projectile sprite is corrupted, and when it impacts, the loop that it runs to search for enemies to damage becomes infinite as a result and locks the game. The projectile has a variable that is supposed to hold the value of the actor who spawned it (either the player or Axon or whoever fired it). The sprites damaged by the BFG explosion are told about the owner so that they know who was responsible for damaging them. But, somehow, that variable has a value of -1 in that specific corrupted projectile. That's not a valid value for a sprite, so the loop aborts and resets to the top of the loop, then starts again, but the loop never completees because the loop counter never increments due to it aborting.

EDIT: Actually, there is hope for that saved game! What you want to do is replace the WGRGAME.CON file with the one in the attachment. Then, load the save from after you returned to the hub (when the projectile is already in the air and about to hit). It worked for me. There is a danger of corruption, though. Whenever code is modified and then you revisit a level, the cached map state data might not match what it is supposed to and this can mess up sprites. If you see townsfolk flying around then you will now it is borked. The fix provided is fine, though...it's just a question of whether it would work with your saved game.

Attached File(s)

•  WGR2GAME.zip (116.79K)
  Number of downloads: 396

[Micky C]

IIRC the Knee Deep boss was EXTREMELY rudimentary its coding. I’m sure DT could do something at least as good in a very short time.

I haven’t played it for a while but I recall it simply came up from the lava in semi-random places and breathed fire, only to go back under again.

Now that I think about it, there’s a boss like that in the AMC TC Episode 3 (fire serpent or something in the Egypt section). No relation.

[Shadow_Wulfe]

Danukem, on 17 November 2020 - 10:14 PM, said:

Thank you so much! I appreciate you taking the time to troubleshoot that wackiness.

The provided CON seems to have fixed the autosave without corrupting the Nexus NPCs. I will wait for all exploding sounds and sprites to finish prior to leaving the maps from now on.

Thanks again, I was genuinely worried that I would have to wait and restart when the next update comes.

[Danukem]

Shadow_Wulfe, on 18 November 2020 - 06:46 AM, said:

Thank you so much! I appreciate you taking the time to troubleshoot that wackiness.

The provided CON seems to have fixed the autosave without corrupting the Nexus NPCs. I will wait for all exploding sounds and sprites to finish prior to leaving the maps from now on.

Thanks again, I was genuinely worried that I would have to wait and restart when the next update comes.

Cool, but your saved game is not out of the woods yet. It's still possible that you will encounter corrupted sprites when reentering a previously visited level, mainly Blacksand. Again, this is because of using a changed CON file relative to when you last visited maps, not because of a bug. Hopefully you encounter no problems.

[William Gee]

Micky C, on 18 November 2020 - 02:51 AM, said:

IIRC the Knee Deep boss was EXTREMELY rudimentary its coding. I’m sure DT could do something at least as good in a very short time.

Dan is quite busy with AA now, I swapped the boss for the super cybermedon.

[Shadow_Wulfe]

Ultimately there ended up being no bugs after replacing that CON file. Blacksand never caused any trouble and I was able to finish the game.

Overall was great with some balanced boss fights.

The secrets were really tough to find, and it would be nice if there was a list of them somewhere.

The object hunt quests for episode 3 of the crown and monk robes, I could never find.

At the end, I assume the boat ride loops indefinitely?

[Danukem]

Shadow_Wulfe, on 25 November 2020 - 02:08 PM, said:

At the end, I assume the boat ride loops indefinitely?

Yes. Now that you have a completed game file, if you start a new game you can switch characters using the hotkey and the dash works in mid-air once you purchase it. So, not really a game plus but something anyway. There will be a release of some reburbished levels pretty soon, too.

I'm glad you stuck with the game it despite the bug.

[Ninety-Six]

So after needing to play with Jedrik for the testing purposes, and all the time spent doing so, I still can't seem to get a grip on him.


I understand I'm in the minority based on which character tends to be on the final stats screen, so I'm not saying Jedrik is bad or anything. Clearly the problem is on my end.

That said, I'm asking for help on trying to understand the playstyle he works best in. Unlike AA's Bomshell, who was very similar to Duke and her weapons were designed to compliment Duke's arsenal, covering their weakness while having weaknesses Duke's weapons could compensate... Jedrik is incredibly different. He's slower, all his weapons have bonus effects, and he's sort of melee-focused but also kinda not?


See, that's where I kind of get stuck. Again, I'm not knocking him. I'm just asking for help on trying to understand how he is intended to be played. He seems like he could be a lot of fun with the right mindset.

I just don't know what that mindset is.



As a side-note, I noticed that Jedrik's sprint/charge is a lot less sensitive than it was in Siege Breaker, or at least it feels that way. I don't know for sure if anything was done or if I've just gotten better, but I've had way less instances where I charge right off a cliff while trying to line up a jump. But if something was done, I absolutely appreciate the change.

[Player Lin]

Play Jedrik gives me the feel of Merlijn from AMC TC, but still they are something different that I'm not sure...

[William Gee]

V2.0 is released with the "HALL OF MEMORIES" containing.
1) Castle Demonhorn, by Spiker
2) Utter Chaos and by Daniel Mason
3) Knee Deep. by Drek and Micky C

https://www.moddb.co...demonthrone-100

Remember dont overwrite your old game if you haven't passed Demon throne yet, you will loose your save games.

BTW Serious Cacodemon found all of the secrets, 102 of them, maybe one day he will write up where to find them.

[Ninety-Six]

Player Lin, on 26 November 2020 - 10:03 PM, said:

Play Jedrik gives me the feel of Merlijn from AMC TC, but still they are something different that I'm not sure...

Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to that yet, either, so I can't use that as a point of reference.


To put it to a point I suppose I'm asking in what areas Jedrik shines in. Duke, for instance, shines in speed and agility, with weapons that seem to specialize in dealing with as many enemies in as short a time as possible. So crowd control. I think in terms of raw damage output to a single target Duke's options aren't stellar but he's far from useless in such scenarios. You'd think Jedrik would be the damage powerhouse as a counterweight and maybe he is, but if that's true I'm definitely missing something. He does have that cannon and the Corrupter seems to deal multiple rounds of damage in a single swing.

I could also have it backwards and Jedrik is better built for crowd control while Duke is the damage dealer. Or perhaps I'm even further off base and Jedrik was built around something completely different than Duke so it isn't so much complimentary as it is incidental. But if that's the case I don't know what he was built around.

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 27 November 2020 - 02:33 AM, said:

. You'd think Jedrik would be the damage powerhouse as a counterweight and maybe he is, but if that's true I'm definitely missing something. He does have that cannon and the Corrupter seems to deal multiple rounds of damage in a single swing.

His melee weapons all do multiple hits of damage on single swings, the issue is that in many cases you risk taking big damage by getting that close.
The corrupter blade's main use is for summoning the exploding skulls -- ammo for it is common so summon a new batch frequently.
Jedrik's options at medium-long to long range are more limited than Duke's, and this becomes an issue sometimes in boss fights, because generally the bosses will kill you quickly at close range. The cannon is pretty good, but also the Armageddon sword is your friend. The DPS when using the primary attack on it is less than BFG, but it costs less ammo and you have I-frames for almost the entire time you are using it and you can beat bosses just be holding fire. The spell on the Arm. sword is also the best in the game and can take out an unlimited number of enemies in one cast and do huge damage on single enemies.
Multi-arrows should not be underestimated because the arrows stay in the target and the damage over time keeps stacking the more you shoot.

[Ninety-Six]

Yeah I learned pretty quickly the value of Multi-Arrows, alongside Bomb Arrows and Spy Arrows. Probably the most reliable ranged options he has that wouldn't call on more scarce ammo types. Multi-Arrows are basically a shotgun in bow form, so I caught on to that one quick.

Fire Arrows I learned have a use against the knights, without costing an explosive. Ice Arrows... still kinda figuring out since freezing enemies in DT is generally less optimal than in DN3D since flying enemies no longer shatter on impact (except when it comes to the Wizards. Ice is damn near necessary for them). For the most part I got into a rhythm of Ice Axe on bigger enemies until frozen, then Corrupter Blade them since it doesn't cost ammo to finish them off (side-question: Does the blade do less melee damage on 0 charge? It does still seem better than the fist). And if you're in range to use the ice arrows you're probably in range to just use the ice axe's stream. Maybe if they're on a ledge or something but in that situation you probably wouldn't be in a position to captialize I don't think.


I know the hammer is pretty good in hordes since it stuns most things. The toss is also useful as long as the enemy isn't on too great a height difference.

Ice Axe has a useful spell and the basic attack is also effective at stronger enemies.


The rest I wasn't as aware of, so thanks. I mean I knew the functions existed but not necessarily how to best utilize them. The Corrupter being more for its spell is a particular piece I wasn't aware of. It's at least a place to start learning how to best use him.

[Ninety-Six]

I don't know why it took me 2 months to realize "skeleton keys" are a pun on actual skeleton keys since they are non-specific in what they open too.


y'ever have one of those moments, sitting there doing something completely unrelated, and then out of nowhere like a lightning strike something you weren't thinking about or even wondering just instantly clicks out of nowhere? That just happened to me. I previously only noticed that they had a skull motif, and didn't actually link the skeleton key to its namesake.

I feel dumb.

[William Gee]

I have uploaded v2.1 (Awaiting authorization)
It has some improved signage and a fixed softlock bug in upsidedown, and a bunch of small level edits.

Only get this version if...
1 This is the first time you have played or
2 You have already passed the game

Don't download it if you are halfway through your game or you will loos your save game.

[Ninety-Six]

So I'm wondering if this is intentional:

Spoiler

In Blacksand, the song changes to Shipwrecked whenever you gain access to Castle Argent. This song remains in permanent effect until you free the true king and kill the corpulus, at which point it's now Mission Landing. Then the portrait piece spawns back at Castle Argent. Going in to grab it, the song changes back to Shipwrecked when you cross the threshold, and then again remains permanent for all of Blacksand despite the king and the fireworks.

Is that supposed to happen, or is Mission Landing supposed to stay instead and the music switch trigger was left over?

[William Gee]

There is a effector that changes the music whenever you walk on its sector... that being whenever you go to castle Argent. Yes that is intentional.

[Ninety-Six]

I'm noticing that none of the midis are looping properly. Is that a problem with the midis or is that an issue with this particular revision of eduke?

Also, found a typo:

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 23 December 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

I'm noticing that none of the midis are looping properly. Is that a problem with the midis or is that an issue with this particular revision of eduke?

How bad is it? Is there a stutter when they start over? Are they completely borked?

[Ninety-Six]

There's a whole second or two of silence between loops, and then the song starts over completely instead of using loop points.

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 23 December 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

There's a whole second or two of silence between loops, and then the song starts over completely instead of using loop points.

I think a lot of the tracks have some silence at the end of them. Also we were forced to use ogg because of a windows crash that would sometimes happen when starting midi playback. It's an infrequent crash and has nothing to do with eduke32 per se, but because WGR uses a lot of music changing effects, the crash was happening enough to justify converting all the music over to ogg. The midi files are still included in the download, but if you look at the user.con you will see the tracks played are actually ogg versions.