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The Coronavirus a/k/a COVID-19 corner.

User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#181

https://www.livescie...ade-in-lab.html

Quote

As the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 spreads across the globe, with cases surpassing 284,000 worldwide today (March 20), misinformation is spreading almost as fast.
One persistent myth is that this virus, called SARS-CoV-2, was made by scientists and escaped from a lab in Wuhan, China, where the outbreak began.

A new analysis of SARS-CoV-2 may finally put that latter idea to bed. A group of researchers compared the genome of this novel coronavirus with the seven other coronaviruses known to infect humans: SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2, which can cause severe disease; along with HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E, which typically cause just mild symptoms, the researchers wrote March 17 in the journal Nature Medicine.

"Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus," they write in the journal article.
Related: 13 coronavirus myths busted by science
Kristian Andersen, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research, and his colleagues looked at the genetic template for the spike proteins that protrude from the surface of the virus. The coronavirus uses these spikes to grab the outer walls of its host's cells and then enter those cells. They specifically looked at the gene sequences responsible for two key features of these spike proteins: the grabber, called the receptor-binding domain, that hooks onto host cells; and the so-called cleavage site that allows the virus to open and enter those cells.
That analysis showed that the "hook" part of the spike had evolved to target a receptor on the outside of human cells called ACE2, which is involved in blood pressure regulation. It is so effective at attaching to human cells that the researchers said the spike proteins were the result of natural selection and not genetic engineering.

Here's why: SARS-CoV-2 is very closely related to the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which fanned across the globe nearly 20 years ago. Scientists have studied how SARS-CoV differs from SARS-CoV-2 — with several key letter changes in the genetic code. Yet in computer simulations, the mutations in SARS-CoV-2 don't seem to work very well at helping the virus bind to human cells. If scientists had deliberately engineered this virus, they wouldn't have chosen mutations that computer models suggest won't work. But it turns out, nature is smarter than scientists, and the novel coronavirus found a way to mutate that was better — and completely different— from anything scientists could have created, the study found.

Another nail in the "escaped from evil lab" theory? The overall molecular structure of this virus is distinct from the known coronaviruses and instead most closely resembles viruses found in bats and pangolins that had been little studied and never known to cause humans any harm.

"If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness," according to a statement from Scripps.

Where did the virus come from? The research group came up with two possible scenarios for the origin of SARS-CoV-2 in humans. One scenario follows the origin stories for a few other recent coronaviruses that have wreaked havoc in human populations. In that scenario, we contracted the virus directly from an animal — civets in the case of SARS and camels in the case of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS). In the case of SARS-CoV-2, the researchers suggest that animal was a bat, which transmitted the virus to another intermediate animal (possibly a pangolin, some scientists have said) that brought the virus to humans.

Related: 20 of the worst epidemics and pandemics in history

In that possible scenario, the genetic features that make the new coronavirus so effective at infecting human cells (its pathogenic powers) would have been in place before hopping to humans.

In the other scenario, those pathogenic features would have evolved only after the virus jumped from its animal host to humans. Some coronaviruses that originated in pangolins have a "hook structure" (that receptor binding domain) similar to that of SARS-CoV-2. In that way, a pangolin either directly or indirectly passed its virus onto a human host. Then, once inside a human host, the virus could have evolved to have its other stealth feature — the cleavage site that lets it easily break into human cells. Once it developed that capacity, the researchers said, the coronavirus would be even more capable of spreading between people.

All of this technical detail could help scientists forecast the future of this pandemic. If the virus did enter human cells in a pathogenic form, that raises the probability of future outbreaks. The virus could still be circulating in the animal population and might again jump to humans, ready to cause an outbreak. But the chances of such future outbreaks are lower if the virus must first enter the human population and then evolve the pathogenic properties, the researchers said.

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User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#182

View PostTrooper Dan, on 02 April 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

Here's why: SARS-CoV-2 is very closely related to the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which fanned across the globe nearly 20 years ago. Scientists have studied how SARS-CoV differs from SARS-CoV-2 — with several key letter changes in the genetic code. Yet in computer simulations, the mutations in SARS-CoV-2 don't seem to work very well at helping the virus bind to human cells. If scientists had deliberately engineered this virus, they wouldn't have chosen mutations that computer models suggest won't work. But it turns out, nature is smarter than scientists, and the novel coronavirus found a way to mutate that was better — and completely different— from anything scientists could have created, the study found.


This is the only paragraph that offers any new insight. The rest is wild speculation not unlike anything else in this thread. And I personally don't find this very compelling. Maybe bioweaopn researches developed a better simulation, and kept that information top secret for obvious reasons? I'm not opposed to the idea of this being a naturally-occurring virus, just saying I don't see the debunking here.

This post has been edited by RADAЯ: 02 April 2020 - 05:29 PM

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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#183

View PostRADAЯ, on 02 April 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

This is the only paragraph that offers any new insight. The rest is wild speculation not unlike anything else in this thread


Oh, so the part right after that which points out that someone deliberately making a deadly virus would have started form one already known to be harmful....that's just wild speculation? There's a big difference between "wild speculation" and an expert assessing the plausibility of a scenario using reasonable assumptions. Sure, it's not an airtight case, but it's a pretty good case.
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User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#184

Unless the bioweapon was specifically designed to elude the suspicion of being genetically engineered.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#185

View PostRADAЯ, on 02 April 2020 - 05:56 PM, said:

Unless the bioweapon was specifically designed to elude the suspicion of being genetically engineered.


I think the points made in the article speak more to the difficulty of trying to engineer a virus like COVID19 with current tech. Sure, bad scientists might want to make an untraceable virus, but if Chinese scientists have that kind of know-how, that's news to us. Again, nothing airtight here, but if you want to play the "it's possible" game, then sure there is no way to disprove a conspiracy theory. You could also speculate that the scientists responsible for the report about how it's not man-made were themselves paid off.
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#186

View PostRADAЯ, on 02 April 2020 - 05:56 PM, said:

Unless the bioweapon was specifically designed to elude the suspicion of being genetically engineered.

This is China we're talking about, a country whose military strategy consists almost entirely of copying other countries technology and then creating many lower-quality copies. Do you really think they're going to buck the trend in genetic modification, of all things?
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#187

There's just as little proof that this virus miraculously made several unique mutations naturally, survived, and propagated world wide. It is 100% undeniable scientific fact that Coronaviruses tend to mutate into benign forms and fizzle out. COVID-19 is unique in it's efficiency.

Furthermore the idea that it's "untraceable" is ridiculous. It's a Chinese virus. It's from China. We know exactly where it came from. The virus even seems to target Asian people specifically (they have more ACE2 receptors than other races) which suggests this specific virus could have been meant for the creation of a vaccine.

Nonetheless your collective trust of the mainstream media and the pharmaceutical industry exposes your naivete. In December they were ignoring this. In January it was just a flu, bro. In February they acknowledged it could be a problem. People like me have been sounding the alarm since late November or December, and the media and their pharma cohorts were consistently lying to you. Why do you have any reason to expect the truth from them now?

Because it keeps you comfortable in your ignorant and complacent Western "everything will always be fine" worldview.

This post has been edited by MARTYR: 02 April 2020 - 09:34 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#188

Posted Image
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#189

View PostMARTYR, on 02 April 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

There's just as little proof that this virus miraculously made several unique mutations naturally, survived, and propagated world wide. It is 100% undeniable scientific fact that Coronaviruses tend to mutate into benign forms and fizzle out. COVID-19 is unique in it's efficiency.


Mutations of harmful viruses in general tend to mutate into less harmful forms, because mutations are random and not directed towards any particular goal -- it's simple regression to the mean. Yes, it is very rare to get a virus like COVID19; they don't come about very often.

But, when you have thousands of different viruses in the world that can infect humans, and they can reproduce and mutate relatively quickly, then there are bound to be particularly nasty ones every so often. It doesn't take a miracle. In fact, it would be miraculous if viruses like that never occurred naturally -- now that would be evidence of divine intervention.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#190

In excess of five "random" mutations that make it increasingly more lethal + exact elements of the HIV virus?
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#191

If I were designing a pandemic virus, I'd do a better job than this. Die of the flu? PFFFT! BORING! (puts on Nehru jacket) I'd start with buboes on the testicles and work up the scale of horrific embarassment before finishing with terminal flatulence that would sound like Nessie's mating call.
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#192

SARS itself was also man made.
SARS-COV2 is not natural.
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User is offline   Jeff 

#193

View PostTea Monster, on 02 April 2020 - 11:21 PM, said:

If I were designing a pandemic virus, I'd do a better job than this. Die of the flu? PFFFT! BORING! (puts on Nehru jacket) I'd start with buboes on the testicles and work up the scale of horrific embarassment before finishing with terminal flatulence that would sound like Nessie's mating call.


Should have done what 24 did. Make people bleed from the nose and mouth constantly, blisters everywhere and making someone really fatigued.
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User is offline   Mark 

#194

If true I have to shake my head at the stupidity. I heard that shortly after the virus alarm was sounded, right wingers were calling out the origins and to take certain precautions concerning Chinese people. Right on cue the left wingers cried out "racist" and "bigots". They encouraged people to patronize Chinese restaurants and even hug a Chinese person you meet just to show how non-racist you are. I wonder how much of that contributed to the spread if any. We'll never know for sure but it was misguided and stupid all in the name of politics.
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User is offline   Mark 

#195

I think Ozzy created the virus long ago when he bit the head off of a bat. The virus laid dormant and spread. Then suddenly, a new chemical additive to Chinese food awoke the sleeping gene. Darn it, my tin foil hat just ripped. Time to make a new one before the aliens find me again. I hate anal probes.

This post has been edited by Mark: 03 April 2020 - 09:52 AM

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User is offline   Kyanos 

#196

View PostMark, on 03 April 2020 - 09:51 AM, said:

I think Ozzy created the virus long ago when he bit the head off of a bat. The virus laid dormant and spread. Then suddenly, a new chemical additive to Chinese food awoke the sleeping gene. Darn it, my tin foil hat just ripped. Time to make a new one before the aliens find me again. I hate anal probes.

I don't believe you.
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#197

It is definitely a huge coincedence that this has installed the police state right on cue for the return of 6000 year comet.

t. Atlas, gobekli tepe, book of enoch, book of the dead.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#198

The virus isn't meant to kill everyone. It's meant to cause panic and is just another element of their long term soft kill plan.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#199

Yeah, but if they didn't half-arse on the virus, they would be able to instigate a short-term hard-kill plan and save a lot of money and time. "Look, we are going to take over the world, causing the few dregs of humanity to be anally probed, which they will initially be a bit shirty about, but will eventually realise that it was what they wanted all along. Could you save everyone a lot of time and bother and just hop into this pine box if you don't mind? Cheers!"
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User is offline   Hank 

#200

View PostTea Monster, on 02 April 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

This is the same facebook/Breitbart crap as other conspiracy theories.

Even if it was true, which it isn't, then the amount of people you'd have to pay off to keep the secret would be astronomical. The government can't keep the secret of who a politician is sleeping with, but hundreds and thousands of health workers, all over the World, are successfully paid off and NONE of them crack and spill the beans?

No one is saying it's a conspiracy. All they said is that the trusted, facts only media is doing what it is best at. What is it? Adding entertainment value to their story. Only fools ignore sound advice, like apply common sense hygiene. But this does not sell advertisement spaces. 260k Americans are infected with a deadly virus, sells. 1500 death in NYC alone, sells. 200+ peeps die in NYC every day, for various reasons, does not sell. Hospitals are overrun, sells. Hospitals in poor areas are always overrun, and now they are still overrun, would not sell.
Sample: 100,000 New Yorkers have coronavirus, death toll nears 3,000
https://nypost.com/2...oll-nears-3000/
this sells.

But, as the NYT reports, only 20 peeps are treated on the Navy Ship for this Virus.
https://www.nytimes....ns-comfort.html
Why? The Navy ain’t not no fools, their orders are to tread corona cases, not other deadly ailments. See below.

Posted Image

On April 1, 14 people actually died of the virus, the rest of other causes, or are pending. Get it? Apply critical reading, when reading the New York Times, though.

Finally, I follow news mainly for entertainment, thus the best from the Post
https://nypost.com/2...d-commentators/
“Dating a 19-year-old is like owning a gun in New York. It’s technically legal, but you can’t bring it anywhere.” Samantha Ruddy . Or, having to stay at home may have some surprising advantages, for perverts like me. ;)
Cheerio, old chap.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#201

View PostHank, on 03 April 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:

On April 1, 14 people actually died of the virus, the rest of other causes, or are pending. Get it? Apply critical reading, when reading the New York Times, though.


You just said that if any infected person who has an underlying condition (e.g. asthma, or high blood pressure etc) dies, then they died of the underlying condition, not because of the virus. And this is what passes for "critical reading" in your book.

So, by that logic:

A person suffering from emphysema gets shot in the chest by a bullet. The person dies, but doctors determine that if the person had been healthy beforehand and did not suffer from emphysema, they would have survived. So, the person was not killed by a gunshot wound, they were killed by emphysema. No murder charge.

Really? I mean I get it -- healthy people are very unlikely to die from the virus. We've known that from the start. But to infer from that that it's not killing people is a far worse distortion of the facts than anything I've been hearing from the news media.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#202

View PostTea Monster, on 03 April 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

Yeah, but if they didn't half-arse on the virus, they would be able to instigate a short-term hard-kill plan and save a lot of money and time. "Look, we are going to take over the world, causing the few dregs of humanity to be anally probed, which they will initially be a bit shirty about, but will eventually realise that it was what they wanted all along. Could you save everyone a lot of time and bother and just hop into this pine box if you don't mind? Cheers!"


You don't understand the nature of this Babylon System in which we live nor the intentions of the dark orchestrator behind it.

View PostTrooper Dan, on 03 April 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

You just said that if any infected person who has an underlying condition (e.g. asthma, or high blood pressure etc) dies, then they died of the underlying condition, not because of the virus. And this is what passes for "critical reading" in your book.

So, by that logic:

A person suffering from emphysema gets shot in the chest by a bullet. The person dies, but doctors determine that if the person had been healthy beforehand and did not suffer from emphysema, they would have survived. So, the person was not killed by a gunshot wound, they were killed by emphysema. No murder charge.

Really? I mean I get it -- healthy people are very unlikely to die from the virus. We've known that from the start. But to infer from that that it's not killing people is a far worse distortion of the facts than anything I've been hearing from the news media.


I agree. More importantly I think that the significance of the virus causing the death is overstated, or rather improperly stated. Any other minor infection could have killed them. The difference is that this virus has been specifically engineered to be very communicable more than it has been engineered to kill everyone. It's lethal to a certain subset of the population, and is very good at finding these statistical outliers whereas common flus and colds are not.

This post has been edited by MARTYR: 03 April 2020 - 01:28 PM

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User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#203

View PostTrooper Dan, on 02 April 2020 - 09:53 PM, said:

In fact, it would be miraculous if viruses like that never occurred naturally -- now that would be evidence of divine intervention.


The absence of some natural disasters would suggest this. Ever wonder why the Tunguska event didn't happen where people actually live?

This post has been edited by RADAЯ: 03 April 2020 - 01:44 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

#204

View PostTrooper Dan, on 03 April 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

You just said that if any infected person who has an underlying condition (e.g. asthma, or high blood pressure etc) dies, then they died of the underlying condition, not because of the virus. And this is what passes for "critical reading" in your book.

cut ...

I am not saying that, the medial profession does.
This is from Germany, an open letter from Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, to Merkel.

The fear of a rise in the death rate in Germany (currently 0.55 percent) is currently the subject of particularly intense media attention. Many people are worried that it could shoot up like in Italy (10 percent) and Spain (7 percent) if action is not taken in time.
At the same time, the mistake is being made worldwide to report virus-related deaths as soon as it is established that the virus was present at the time of death – regardless of other factors. This violates aPrinciples of only when it is certain that an agent has played a significant role in the disease or death may a diagnosis be made. The Association of the Scientific Medical Societies of Germany expressly writes in its guidelines: “In addition to the cause of death, a causal chain must be stated, with the corresponding underlying disease in third place on the death certificate. Occasionally, four-linked causal chains must also be stated.“


reference
https://www.globalre...-merkel/5708004

Thus, NY report followed those principles, but no news media wants to write about it, since it may stop the profitable fear mongering.

This post has been edited by Hank: 03 April 2020 - 01:57 PM

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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#205

View PostHank, on 03 April 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:

This is from Germany, an open letter from Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, to Merkel.


I agree that the reported stats may be overstating the number of those killed by the virus. Just because someone had the virus at the time of death does not mean that it was the main cause. But in your previous post, you were implying that anyone with an underlying condition should not be counted as killed by the virus -- you were dramatically understating it. A more rational approach would be to attribute cause of death to the virus if it's contribution was very significant. Difficult to do, though, and it's not something I want doctors to waste time worrying about.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#206

Don't worry, doctors are already busy wasting their time sucking pharmaceutical cock.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#207

View PostTrooper Dan, on 03 April 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

I agree that the reported stats may be overstating the number of those killed by the virus. Just because someone had the virus at the time of death does not mean that it was the main cause. But in your previous post, you were implying that anyone with an underlying condition should not be counted as killed by the virus -- you were dramatically understating it. A more rational approach would be to attribute cause of death to the virus if it's contribution was very significant. Difficult to do, though, and it's not something I want doctors to waste time worrying about.

Doesn't the virus drastically increase the chance of someone dying, if they already have other conditions?

For example, if old people are suddenly dying because of the virus, you won't say "they were already old, they died because of old age"
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#208

Actually that was common not so long ago. Old folks would decline, get a common cold or flu that progresses into a pneumonia and people would just say they died of old age. Talk to any old timer, they would remember. Most of today's problems come about because younger generations have no grasp upon the memories of the older generations. Our history dies.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#209



No seriously watch it. If nothing else it will make you want to do a lot of burpees.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#210

View PostFox, on 03 April 2020 - 06:19 PM, said:

Doesn't the virus drastically increase the chance of someone dying, if they already have other conditions?

For example, if old people are suddenly dying because of the virus, you won't say "they were already old, they died because of old age"


Yes, I wasn't disagreeing with that -- we're on the same side here. Technically, Hank does have a point though, even if he's vastly overstating it. The point being that someone could test positive for the virus and then die of something else entirely. Out of the number of reported fatalities, false attributions to the virus is likely very, very small though (surely less than 1% of the total reported deaths). We know exactly how the virus kills you; it causes pneumonia and makes you drown in the fluid filling your damaged lungs. It's not like there very many people dying in other ways getting counted as virus deaths.

Additionally, there are those who had very fragile health and were likely to die in the next few months of any number of possible causes -- a lot of victims in nursing homes fall into that category. Of those I would say that the virus is killing them but I can understand why Hank and others wouldn't be very alarmed about the virus on their account.

By the way, I've heard estimates passed on from doctors on the front lines who say that about 75% of those who get intubated and go on respirators end up dying of it. But there's a period of about 10 days during which the the intubated person is slowly dying, suffering organ failures from lack of oxygen etc. It also takes a while for people to get sick enough to need the respirators. That's one of the reasons you see the death rate climbing in places like NY. A few weeks ago, the death rate in NY was only about .3% (about 300% as deadly as the flu). Now it's close to 2% (about 2000% as deadly as the flu). And that's largely because people infected simply hadn't gotten around to dying yet. The US has a very high rate of obesity, and that's one of the major risk factors, so it wouldn't be surprising if the US death rate ended up being significantly higher than a lot of other countries. But you know, that's an "underlying condition" Fuck those people with "underlying conditions" because they obviously deserve to die, amirite? [that's sarcasm]
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